We need to find out. Or I guess we could pretend it's ok and concentrate on Snowden.

I dont care about whether the OP is facts or not, because it has nothing to do with the major issue that the Republicans want to hide and Democrats want to investigate.

I dont care if it's a fact that Snowden wears boxers and not briefs. His character has absolutely nothing to do with what we need to be doing now.

Who is collecting personal data on Americans?

How much data is being collected?

What are the sources of the data?

Is all of the data being compiled and analyzed?

Who has access to the data?

Is the FISA court providing honest oversight?

Is Congress providing meaningful oversight?

These are a few of the questions we should be discussing, not what kind of a person Snowden is.

Why arent we looking closer at them. It appears that one of their lower level employees had access and stole a very large amount of data. Why did he have unrestricted access? Why has his supervisor not been questioned? Just what is the relationship between Booz-Allen and those that are in charge of our intelligence agencies? Who owns Booz-Allen? Do they do business with foreign governments? Do they store data or just have access?

a 40 hour per week job for the bread winner with two weeks vacation, a couple of kids, a modest house to own in 20 years, money for the kid’s college, and a modest retirement allotment.

That dream started to die in the 1970’s with the rise of the Conservative Conspiracy (please forgive the use of the C-word but it’s true, but that’s another OP).

Today the American dream is to win the lottery and be one of the 1%. One of the beautiful people we are bombarded with every day on Corp-Media.

Lotteries are the most repressive form of taxation. They get their money from those who can least afford it.

The new American dream – If you want to escape poverty, buy a lottery ticket and pray.

And stop fussing about Snowden and Greenwald.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/senators-james-clapper-nsa-data-collection

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023073075

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023049249

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023119565

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023110456

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017123694

This is clearly no longer based on Snowden's paranoid fears. The list is getting longer and longer.

essentially the same machine Bush had. I think when Obama got into office he was told that there was this massive spy machine in place keeping us safe and he best not mess with it.

Who makes up the ruling cabal? When Boosh was figurehead I thought that Cheney was one of the men behind the curtain. But his actions in late 2007 made me change my mind. Someone told him to back off. Seems to me that most of the spy guys and military leaders, and hell even economic leaders transcend presidents. How much of a figurehead is our president?

The USofA is the big authoritarian (bully) on the block. Our government invades countries killing tens, even hundreds of thousands of innocents, kills suspected terrorists in other countries without permission of the sovereign nation’s government, spies on everyone including it’s own citizens, and in general acts like the big bully of the world. Why? Because they can.

As the big bully they cant let those that dare to look behind the curtain go free. Whistle-blowers and protestors have to be punished, but not only punished, they have to be crushed, brutalized to set an example (code for terrorize) the 99% into toeing the line.

Sadly there are those among us, the conservatives, that must stand by the authoritarian leadership. They defend the authoritarian leadership to a fault. Some may ask why do people voluntarily follow these authoritarian leaders?
Here is an explanation from Bob Altemeyer’s book, The Authoritarian Specter.



Sadly we see a lot of “Follower Authoritarians” right here in DU City.

The Authoritarian Specter is available for free here: http://patrick-fournier.com/d/cours3-6607.pdf

the system is rigged. Rigged to hide the truth, rigged to keep those that want to reveal the truth quiet. I believe in law and order, but I also believe that it should be equally enforced. When I see the 1% Ruling Elite not being held accountable for heinous crimes, I have a hard time rationalizing that we should punish those that are trying to expose the Emperor without clothes.

In my opinion, those that are so very adamant for Manning and other whistle-blowers to be punished and punished severely, is because they are comfortable with the authoritarian power structure. Whistle-blowers and protestors dare to challenge this structure. This is the conservative mind-frame. They can forgive the misdeeds of the leader authoritarians but not the misdeeds of those that dare to try to reveal that their Emperor has no clothes.

The conservatives want Manning to spend life in prison because that's the most severe punishment society will allow. They long for the days they could get a rope and really teach him a lesson.

I recommend the book, The Authoritarians free here: http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

It's time to choose sides in the movement, support the Ruling Elite or Support the People's Movement.


Declaration of Occupation from the New York General Assembly:

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

some time in 2007. What suddenly made them shut-up? Seriously, who had the pull to make Cheney humble?

I knew something was wrong when Pres Obama punched the left in the gut by choosing Rick Warren to say the prayer at his 2008 inauguration. An early shot across the bow.

I knew something was wrong when Gov Dean resigned and Obama appointed Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff. You know Rahm, he who couldnt contain his contempt, if not outright hatred of the left.

These were very early, deliberate, and very clear signs that something was very wrong. And while the apologists have an answer for each and every one, the answers boil down to what one poster said yesterday. “I trust Obama.” The same thing my brother in law said of Bush in 2002.

By the way, we need to be careful with our criticism of Eric Holder. If he should resign, Pres Obama might appoint Alberto Gonzales.

The red team has carte blanch to rape and pillage, the blue team strongly resists the red team on social issues. These are the issues that people closely identify with. But while we are watching the dog fight over gun control for example, both the blue and red teams are picking our pockets. Now some will rationalize that at least the blue team is helping us win some of the social dog fights and when they take our wallets they dont hit us in the head with a lead pipe, so it could be worse? Yes but when you get home and find your wallet is gone, your house is gone, your job, retirement and Social Security are gone, your freedom will soon follow. Then all the hard work for social issues will quickly be flushed down the fascist toilet.

When do you think the next bank bailout will occur? I'm think around 2015.

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