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Current location: Virginia coast
Member since: Tue Sep 14, 2004, 11:13 PM
Number of posts: 23,468

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I've talked with our Cox provider reps many times about having to pay for religious channels - no offense to anyone here but they are offensive to this atheist. Wonder how religious folks would like having to pay for four channels of "atheist network" programming?!

Got nowhere with Cox. Next time I complain, I'll add Fox FakeNews to my list. Reps always told me if I want such & such channels, I must take the damn religious programming too.

I applaud ANY measure that stops suffering of any species

"The arguments to prove man's superiority cannot shatter this hard fact: in suffering the animals are our equals."
- Peter Singer, philosopher

Leonardo Da Vinci...

And thoughts to consider, not that I completely agree with this, but I applaud ANY measure that stops any suffering. No, I'm not a complete vegetarian. I'm a hypocrite who feeds my dog a bit of meat a few days a week. And i'm glad she loves eggs.

Dog, Horse... It's Good Food for Us

In February, 2009, a resident of Auckland, New Zealand killed his family dog and barbecued the body. Concerned neighbors informed the SPCA, who arrived at the man's home to find the dog's body roasting over an outdoor fire.

The SPCA investigated the incident, but recently came to the conclusion that no crime was committed, because the murder was carried out 'humanely'. According to the man's story, the dog was killed swiftly and painlessly. In what proves to be a classic example of the absurdity of animal welfare laws, New Zealand considers this perfectly legal.

Garth Halliday, of the Auckland SPCA, told reporters that the family had become 'tired of the dog', and decided he was becoming a pest, especially as he was riddled with fleas. Rather than treating the fleas and finding an appropriate home for the dog, they decided to simply kill and eat him, a practice that is commonly accepted in their native Tonga.

According to the man's wife, "Dog, horse, we eat it in Tonga. It's good food for us."

As someone whose life has been enriched greatly by my experience with dogs, it's hard not to see this as an exceptionally gruesome act, and as somehow different to the barbaric and unnecessary slaughter that occurs on a massive scale every day so that people everywhere can enjoy the taste of flesh. Dogs, after all, are animals who are treated as family members in many loving homes throughout the world, and it's hard not to fall victim to the speciesism that teaches us to see dogs as somehow entitled to a greater degree of protection than animals used by agriculture.

If Paea Taufu worked in an animal factory, he could be killing animals all day long, and not only would it not be considered controversial, he would be paid for it, and regular people would buy the animals' flesh to eat it themselves. The difference? Dog = Pet. Lamb = Food. But this incident offers us a remarkable opportunity to examine such cultural prejudices and see them as they really are: meaningless justifications for cruelty toward some that we would not tolerate toward others.

To the vast majority of humanity, animals are judged edible and inedible according to irrelevant characteristics. Pigs, just like dogs, are intelligent, social, affectionate creatures, who love a tummy rub and will greet their people with wagging tails. Cows sorrowfully mourn the loss of their young, and can bellow for days after their babies are taken from them to be killed and eaten as veal. Turkeys can experience deep emotional connections with people, and chickens can be psychologically traumatized for life after being released from an egg production facility. All of these animals are shut out of our general circle of compassion or empathy, for no reason other than that they fulfill our desire for certain 'foods'.

Although I admit that my own cultural prejudices kick in when I hear about a dog being killed to be turned into meat for a family lunch, I can't help but feel that there is a certain hypocrisy being displayed by the general reaction to this incident, as though there is some sort of significant difference between the value of the life of a dog and the value of the life of a pig, a cow, or a chicken, animals who are killed collectively by the billions every year. In the US alone, we kill 317 land animals every second of every day. That does not even include the billions of aquatic animals killed every year, and it equals almost 20,000 every minute, and over 1,000,000 every hour.

I am not suggesting that people should not be horrified by this story, nor am I suggesting that there is anything defensible about killing a family member, or any animal, for any reason, in any way. What I am suggesting is that those who are horrified by this story ought to think carefully about why it is horrifying, and what our reaction to this tells us about animal use in general. The only reason we are not equally moved by the brutal murder of other animals is simply because we choose to ignore it. The reason we ignore it is because we benefit from it, and are therefore complicit in it.

We disregard our ethical responsibility toward these animals because it is convenient, but in so doing, we unwittingly stunt our ethical development, and thereby inhibit the social progression of humanity. The evolution of civilization is a continuous path toward learning the difference between right and wrong, between justice and injustice. To cling so stubbornly to the practice of enslaving animals for food and other pleasures, is to deny the need for the evolution of society, as though our widespread problems with violence and brutality do not have some deeper cause that needs to be addressed.

To be deeply saddened by the murder of a family dog is a sane reaction to a horrific occurrence. The hypocrisy begins when we shut off that sadness in reaction to the murder of other animals simply because our culture has taught us that 'cow, pig, chicken, sheep, fish… it's good food for us'.


Totally agree with you!

Look at how few people will even acknowledge anthropogenic climate change much less the eventual extinction of most life. The info is there but folks want to be nothing more than biased, delusional consumers.
Sorry to be DebbieDowner.

Just had a conversation with my neighbor who spent January in the Antarctic studying krill and observing the Larsen C ice sheet. Said (as I've experienced) people get "angry" if you want to talk about it. "Angry!"

They continue to have to deny truth or give a shit about many things.

For some, only some, on this site posting anything

positive about Bernie is "dividing us." Ignore them -to do that, click on their handle and follow to the ignore feature. I'm adding to my long list.

These folks have an obvious ingrained bias against anything Bernie and seem to somewhat blame him for Hillary's loss. Indeed there were some Bernie supporters who said they'd never vote for HRC not matter what. Bernie did NOT advocate they do that.
But the posters here laughing at you, imo, believe lies about Bernie much like Trump's supporters do. And they are MOST suspicious of your motives, call it paranoid if you like.

I supported Bernie but voted for Hillary.

"shade the poles with upper atmosphere particulates"

Or with large umbrella-like sheets of thin reflective material which could be retractable and controllable. Expensive but very doable - by NASA. This solution was suggested by a NASA physicists last year. The uppity-ups laughed at him!!!

The ignorance and inertia is pervasive in so many places and levels. It's heartbreaking.

It should be the other way around

Meat eaters should be apologetic.

I will not eat any meat, even my fish and seafood, in front of a vegetarian. I think it's disrespectful.

Little story: My son not long ago was graduated and wanted to go to an expensive steak house to celebrate with his g.f. I ruined the whole celebration by losing control of my emotions. I couldn't eat and spent half the time sobbing in the restroom. Most of the time I'm calm and sometimes carnivorous but other times the reality of it all smacks me hard. I grew up on a farm, watching my baby calves hauled off. Childhood emotions and scars run the deepest and appeal to our better selves.

Thank You! I always value your knowledge, GG.

I agree with all you've said.
I hope, however, that civilization has perhaps 35 to 40 years. Probably not realistic, I know. But because my one and only child, my son has just finished grad school and embarked upon a career, I'd like to think he could live a longer life. In that way, I'm like every other mother, our children are our first concerns, or should be. At least I have only one offspring to grieve for. I contributed only one more polluter. /

❤ to you for Valentine's day.


"Aid and comfort" has been interpreted as giving info. Why has the U.S. convicted some citizens of crimes of treason when they passed secret info to the Russians? We do not know what info has been passed to Russia. We need to find out if they interferred with our Democratic Process, our elections. Any private citizens, having done what Rump's administration has done would already be under investigation.

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