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Member since: Fri Aug 13, 2004, 03:12 PM
Number of posts: 23,664

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Oh What A Turtled Web We Weave (Explains a Lot):

Posted by HughBeaumont | Wed Feb 8, 2017, 01:56 PM (9 replies)

How do you construct a simple economic message without pandering or lying?

To prepare for 2018 and beyond, we're supposed to be canvassing, getting out the vote . . . (snicker) constructing a dialogue with the opposition to try and get them on your side . . .

OK, I'm all ears.

* What is our plan to communicate with the upper-middle and above regarding income inequality and Capitalism's glaring distribution flaw? Are we going to try and persuade the wealthy to ignore lower-costing workers? Are we going to try and persuade them to say no to event-driven algorithms that can replace hordes of workers in one fell swoop?

* How do we tell the wealthy that their greed is ultimately self-destructive without them crying "CLASS WARFARE!!!"??

* What are some realistic solutions for the worker who is going to be replaced by automation/right to work/offshore outsourcing? Expensive-as-hell college (while trying to pay bills in unemployment)? Relocate with no guarantee of a permanent, living-wage job? Try and make do with low retail wages and bad benefits in the face of soaring living/necessity costs? Have them try their luck at the self-employment casino?

* How do we tell the well-conditioned Fox-watcher that pretty much everything that station has taught them about economics is false? Do we have charts and stats at the ready? Do we tell them tax cuts are not a substitute for a living wage and are one of the worst and least effective forms of economic stimulus? How do we say THAT mouthful in one or two words?

* What is our plan to combat the one-sided "Free Trade" deals that leave American workers worse off economically?

If we're talking "reasonable Americans" and not "Batshit racist hyper-fundie wingnuts" (sorry, that's a disease requiring a long-term cure), you might be with them on foreign policy and domestic rights issues.

Economics is quite a different story. As we've seen, people without hope need someone to tell them everything is going to be OK . . . even though it's painfully obvious that more than a few things regarding labor issues, benefits and future employment prospects for them and their children are NOT OK. People without hope rely on faith . . . even if that faith is with a labor-stiffing real-estate billionaire.

I'm at a loss as to what to tell those without hope. I don't know what to tell them. Forget brevity; I know how corporate America (that corporate America that now fully runs our country, public AND private) IS. They were never about doing what's right for their employees.

That's the challenge: An economic message that allows them to remain complacent, doesn't blame Republicans or the rich, gives them hope for the future and doesn't bore them within one minute's time.

Anyone got a road map to that pot of gold?
Posted by HughBeaumont | Wed Feb 8, 2017, 11:08 AM (7 replies)

The GOP treats health like they treat careers and livelihoods:

Repeal; with no viable or sustainable replacement and leaving us holding the bag.

Is America's default position "Republican . . until you work REALLY hard to convince me otherwise"?

Stock Markets perform better under Democratic administrations.

Jobs gained - again, Democratic administrations.

Government spending . . . yep, we win there too.

Consumer confidence. Economic Growth. Unemployment. Democrats, AGAIN.

So why, why, WHY does America CONTINUALLY want to put people in office that continually destroy societal and economic progress?

It seems to me that we have to work SO ridiculously harder to convince the American voter that we're better for them than Republicans do by pretty much just showing up.

I'm saying this as one who wasn't exactly on board with Hillary: In a choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, there's NEVER been a bigger gap in qualification. In voting HISTORY. This could NOT have been a bigger "DURRRRRRRRR". COME on.

Also, in light of all the evidence presented above, how did they make so many electoral GAINS since 2010?

It's as if America as a whole looks at us and says "I'm sorry, but you can put up all of the evidence of better economic performance and other things . . . I don't CARE. I just don't LIKE your party. I JUST DON'T TRUST YOU. I like Republicans better. That's my default and I'm not changing. I see THEM as leaders and YOU as Communist-sympathizing weaklings. Give me multiple reasons why I should vote for you."

Am I WRONG on this? Or am I blaming the wrong people? We cannot possibly suck THIS bad at campaigning . . . can we??

Did "the economic message not resonate", or is it that we just didn't want to LIE to them?

Here's the rub with trying to "understand" a Trump voter.

Their concerns were portrayed as "primarily economic", right?

What I'm gathering from all the political/news commentators and comments sections was that they wanted someone to tell them their jobs are returning, their talents are necessary, and there would be no need for them to get additional skills to improve their lives (even though they seem to have no issue telling minimum wage earners this . . . over and over and over and over again).

Problem is, the phenomenon of job dearth and labor movement was primarily caused by A) Conservative businesspersons acting ON CHOICE to please major shareholders and cost-cut until they're operating threadbare or close entirely and walk away with millions and/or B) Conservatives getting tax breaks and tax cuts from Republican politicians which allowed them to either offshore jobs to cheaper climes or perform stock buybacks and fire their workers.

In short, they wanted someone to LIE to them, and Orange Lincoln Rockwell was that liar.

There was never a chance that ANY politicians could make jobs return, because they generally don't have the power to do that. Greed, automation and offshore outsourcing ain't going to be put back in their tubes. Their plights center around the conservative businessperson doing what a fiscally conservative businessperson does - look out for #1 (and numbers 2-13, depending on how big their boards are).

See, you cannot tell them this, because THOSE Conservative businesspersons are their HEROES. It's the same reason we have to work so painfully hard to try and convince them of our message as opposed to the other side that "middle America" sees as THEIR ideal.

They see themselves as "one lucky break from BEING Donald Trump" rather than "One missed paycheck from living under a bridge".

THAT'S the problem.

STILL wondering when Americans are going to fall out of love with Republicans.

In May, I posted this.

And after November 8th, I'm still left wondering.

How, after

* Nixon and his tenure of incompetence and illegal shenanigans,
* Tone-Deaf and bumbling Jerry Ford,
* Reagan and all of the scandal and ruin that happened during and because of him,
* Bush Sr and his recession and war,
* documented and data-backed evidence that Republican economic policy leads to awful periods of contraction, stock market crashes and joblessness,
* The obstructionist 104th Gingrich Congress,
* The DimSon and his reign of stupidity, incompetence, war and TWO recessions (the latter being the worst this country had seen in seven decades),
* The obstructionist Boehner and then Ryan Congress,
* Mitch McConnell, just about the most useless Senate leader in Modern American History,

. . . how, after ALL of this, with all of this information and visual evidence at their hands can people STILL be so vexingly in love with Republican politicians? WHY ARE THEY LIKED MORE???

How do they STILL see them as these heroes, these strong leaders who care for their needs? I DON'T have an answer to this. All the narrative control in the world shouldn't hold precedent over your eyes, your bank accounts and your futures.

I'm extremely disappointed in this country. I seriously thought we would grow up and get smarter by now.

You say I'm wrong? Pretty soon, with the control of that precious Judicial branch, the Plutocracy will be complete. They have most of the states, governorships and legislatures. They have the media. They have religion. Corporate America has them. Where am I wrong here?

The worst part about it all is . . . they don't even have to work nearly as hard to convince voters that their side is better as we do with ours. They just get away with selling them hope dope/religious fear. We have to have extensive ground game, county/state strategy, perfect messaging, politicians without an OUNCE of flaw whatsoever, etc. etc. etc.

All they have to do is bring a popular brand name, bring a few wedge issues and cooked-up conspiracies, disguise themselves as a populist and they win. The public believes them without an ounce of question and it's fucking ridiculous that they fall for it.

What cures the economic ills of "Flyover Country"/Middle/Rural America?

Pundits America-wide saw this election as a message that working/rural America has it perpetually awful in life and put their seemingly only chance at opportunity in an "outsider CEO" to be their savior (I'll wait for you to be finished doubled over laughing, but that's one of the narratives being tossed about). The idea was that Trump "had the stronger economic message".

. . . . . . I just read that as he straight up bullshitted his way to the voter's hearts in this area. Giving companies free money in the form of corporate tax cuts will inspire them to lay workers off by the metric ton.

He was never going to "bring jobs back". No one's going to bring jobs back. Corporate greed is a Pandora's box that ain't closing.

Search me how your precious Capitalism survives with no GMI, a chopped social safety net, the entrance fee to higher education being that of a mortgage and too few jobs for the millions of people that need them, but I'm sure the CEO Cabinet will figure it out

You don't really want to ask the people that live in these areas to "move"; that requires money and a job waiting for you, one that isn't always a guaranteed permanent. I'm just not understanding what these people are expecting to happen. I don't see how WE solve this. I don't really have any answers on how they're supposed to be gainfully employed.

The vague buzzwords thrown around by corporate America when asked what America's solution is to ward off an almost-certain bleak economic future . . . "innovation", "education", "information", "New Industries", "high tech businesses" . . . . would those, er, "solutions" ever happen in North Dakota? Iowa? Kansas? Ohio's counties that Hillary didn't win (all but seven)? Rural Pennsylvania?

The thing is, can permanently un/under-employed people "SUPERSIZE THEIR SKILL SET HAW HAW HAW" when they have no income to contribute for training? How does capitalism continue when you have millions of people who y'all won't hire and won't give them a substantial social safety net to even survive? This is expecting an individual solution to a structural problem.

I have YET, YET to hear a coherent and planned answer from a conservative as to how these problems get solved.

Murica, 2016:

Worker/Consumer: "My wage hasn't increased in inflation adjusted dollars since Disco was popular and I have bills."
Worker/Consumer: "Sorry."
CEOs: "You're ungrateful and complain too much. I'm laying you off and automating your job!"
Worker/Consumer: "This isn't fair! We should elect a billionaire who understands our needs!"
U.S. Teabagger Gubmint: "Thanks. We're cutting your social security, destroying the social safety net and lowering taxes on the rich!"
Worker/Consumer: "What the hell?"
U.S. Teabagger Gubmint: "You fucked up. You TRUSTED us! Remember that movie?"
Worker/Consumer: "We need a universal basic income!"
U.S. Teabagger Gubmint: "SOSHULISM? HA HA HA HA HA! Move to Switzerland, Commie!"
Worker/Consumer: "GODDAMN IT! The obvious solution to all this is . . . . to vote for MORE Republicans; they'll screw things up so badly a Progressive Revolution will HAVE to happen!"
1984: Nope.
The Handmaid's Tale: Nope.
V for Vendetta: Nope.
It Can't Happen Here: Nope.
Worker/Consumer: "What am I supposed to do?"
Me: "Maybe wake up and see that there's no value in demonizing people or humanity? Stop making bad voting choices?"
Worker/Consumer: "Now you're just talking crazy, hippie!"
CEOs (to automation): "BUY MUH STUFF?"


My grandfather survived Pearl Harbor. He fought fascists in the European Theater.

12 years after his death, America goes and elects one.

His service was one of honor and defense . . . . and we rewarded that by ultimately kowtowing to TrumPence and all the corporate jackals that promise to "Great" America out of existence via automation, offshore outsourcing and shredding our already inadequate social safety net.

I apologize, grandpa, for this nation ultimately disgracing all you fought for . . . the idea of a really great America that was supposed to be the beacon of Freedom. Now, we remain nothing more than a broken and bitter populace that's likely never going to see that "idea" come to it's fruition.

Hope you're proud of yourself, Dumberica. Aren't you glad 100% Pure Capitalism won out in the end?
Posted by HughBeaumont | Wed Dec 7, 2016, 09:06 AM (7 replies)

How does Kurt Eichenwald, in the same article . . .

. . . get to say:

The laughably unqualified Jill Stein of the Green Party


I have no problem with anyone who voted for Trump, because they wanted a Trump presidency.

Now, don't get me wrong. Jill Stein WAS laughably unqualified.

But saying that while implying that there was nothing wrong with voting for Trump kind of renders your own argument laughable.

Anyone . . . and I MEAN ANYONE . . . who thinks "President Donald Trump" is a great idea is a selfish know-nothing dumbass who needs to get smarter quickly. STRAIGHT up. That includes my relatives and yours.

Donald Trump is the most unqualified presidential candidate in modern American history and he's proving such an assertion daily. Instead of studying up on a job he knows nothing about, he's getting into Twitter wars, planning "Victory Tours" and appointing a lop-sided extremist cabinet loaded with billionaires, climate change deniers, cash-and-carry larcenists, human-rights deniers and Islamophobes.

You don't get to yip about Jill Stein while crediting people who think there's nothing wrong with racism, sexism, homophobia and/or horrible economics with making a sound choice. HORSESHIT.
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