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iverglas

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Member since: 2001
Number of posts: 38,549

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Oleg Volk has been here before you ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=125944&mesg_id=126520

... and is no longer here. (Just click on the beside his name there.)

See also my reply there (among dozens on the subject over the years):

"We're here, we're queer -- and we're voting Libertarian"

In the Guns forum at the previous version of DU, the moderator ruled that posting approval of the Pink Pistols violated the terms of service of this website, which now read:

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. ...


The Pink Pistols enemies list seems to have been taken off line. I posted about it here at DU:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=918614&mesg_id=922490

http://www.pinkpistols.org/antigun.html

The following organizations have lent monetary, grassroots or some other type of direct support to Anti-Gun organizations. In many instances, these organizations lent their name in support of specific campaigns to pass Anti-Gun legislation such as the March 1995 HCI "Campaign to Protect Sane Gun Laws." Many of these organizations were listed as "Campaign Partners," for having pledged to fight any efforts to repeal the Brady Act and the Clinton "assault weapons" ban. All have officially endorsed Anti-Gun positions.

For more details on these companies or groups, see the section on Anti-Gun Corporations/Corporate Heads, below.

This detailed information is being supplied, to make the owners of stocks, and users of products and services, totally aware, of whom these organizations or people are.

It would take many pages to print out; I assume it's just cribbed from the NRA's enemies list.

If you're a Methodist, you're there. If you belong to the ACLU or the American Bar Association, you're there. Most people at DU are probably there, one way or another.

College Democrats is there. The Women's National Democratic Club is there. The YWCA is there. The United Nations is there. The Union of American Hebrew Congregations is there. The Unitarian Universalists are there and the United Church of Christ is there. Physicians for Social Responsibility and PETA and People for the American Way are there.

... Their links page:
http://www.pinkpistols.org/links.html

No Democratic links there. No links to anywhere I'd want to be going. Not even, oh, the Human Rights Committee. Not a single GLBT-focused/friendly kinda link at all.


I suspect you're getting my drift.

But hey, it's always nice to hear from the horse's mouth:

We work with the NRA. We are not "in bed with the NRA". I've told the legislative branch of the NRA (NRA-ILA) that they are far to willing to compromise on the rights of gun owners. Major gun-control bills were written with the support of the NRA (including the gun control ban of 1968)! The Pink Pistols have said it's time to stop supporting the giving away our rights as pieces of salami, until none are left, and get those rights back!

aw, you didn't even read it, did you?






Awwwww. Fun's over!



This is your hypothetical case. The poster is replying to the question an OP presents:

"Are gay people born that way?"


Here is the hypothetical reply:

Personally, I think most "gay" people are lying,
particularly those who make a point to say that they are gay. Likely, they are bisexual.


You receive an alert saying that this is a broad-brush smear of DUers and other people in the world who are gay.

What is your verdict?

this is hilarious!!!!!!!!

I replied to my PMs when I first wandered in this aft, and I had just explained to one of the posters in this thread what the vendetta was reeeeaaally all about -- P0RN!1!

And look what I find when I check My Posts.

Somebody might not be happy that you dunnit it, I fear. I think this was supposed to be a secret. The story is that I'm a homophobe, you know -- not that three or four posters back at old DU spent their time disrupting the Feminists forum there because, y'know, P0RN (for them) and prostitution (for other women) are the only issues on the planet that matter to women! ... and some of us old haggy straight middle-aged prudey feminists just didn't take kindly to their antics.

What a gas, that you should show up right on cue like that.

Why, you'd almost think that somebody with a grand total of 2 posts -- one about me, one addressed to me -- knew me!

This time I really am afraid I may fall out of my wheelchair.

Maybe I should have checked first. Are you still with us??

why bother the poster?

It wouldn't bother me at all to see all the unsuccessful alerts on my posts.

In fact, I very much want to see them. I think a very important bit of data is not being properly collected, the way things are now. I haven't had a post hidden all month, and we all know very well that probably dozens of my posts have been alerted on - unsuccessfully. I can't think of any reason why those alerts should be concealed from me. The fact of the alert is an important fact in itself, when it illustrates a pattern, which too obviously in some instances it does.

So if anybody is a juror for any post of mine, please do feel free to send me the alert and the results. You won't be bothering me!

isn't it inspiring to see that some people really can open their minds

and their hearts?

I had the same sort of experience years ago when I spent time in combat with the forces of evil on line, in the form of seriously malignant anti-choice activists. I "turned" several women who had been in their thrall for some time.

In one case, a naive young woman (who had only been persuaded of the reality of evolution in university, and then only because a clever professor had said she had to learn about it, but she didn't have to believe it) had every bizarre argument against reproductive choice you can imagine. Abortion is evil because nuns in Africa who were sexually exploited by priests were forced to have abortions ... . Then one day she actually heard what was being said about the risks to women if abortion were outlawed, and one thing penetrated the walls of the ideology that had been instilled in her since childhood. Her sister had health problems and was in an abusive marriage that she would/could not leave. If her sister became pregnant again, her life would be in danger in more than one way (pregnancy being a serious risk factor for abused women). She cared about her sister enormously and worried about her constantly, and it dawned on her what denial of choice could mean for her sister. Overnight, she became pro-choice.

In another, a woman who worked as a doula (a sort of professional birth coach) sincerely believed that pro-choicers were a bunch of hard-hearted cows who simply did not care about women and just wanted to get our own way (for some reason). Then she observed me in a discussion forum talking to a woman with older children and a baby she did not want, in a totally unsupportive family; the woman very clearly had severe post partum depression in a hugely stressful situation, and I was urging her to get real help, to demand real help, any and every kind of help she could demand, while the anti-choicers told her what a bad mother she was. Suddenly, the doula woman saw pro-choicers in a whole new light: we cared about women just as she did; that was why we were pro-choice, just as she thought it was why she was anti-choice. Overnight, she became pro-choice.

There are people who are genuinely good, or at least not all bad, deep down -- and importantly, who see themselves as good people and have a fundamental value system that really is consistent with that self-image, that does involve caring about other people. If they come to see that their ideology really is not compatible with being a good person, or that the people their ideology tells them are bad are really not bad and in fact may need and deserve the support of good people, they can have an epiphany.

You can't often guess what will trigger that process for any individual. And there's no guarantee that it will ever happen, for many people. Some people really can ignore everything their eyes see and their brains tell them, for many different reasons -- from it being too tough to do that self-examination to simply having too much to gain by sticking to their ideology to give it up.

But your examples show that it is possible to reach some people. If the person is someone who matters in one's own life, or is a person in a position of power like the ones in your post are, it can be worth the time and effort invested in trying to reach them. Exactly as you say:

You may never get some people to listen to your story. However, the ones you do reach can be critical. Trying to talk to them is worth a shot.


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