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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:22 AM

 

Are we really going to allow an issue like voting rights for prisoners pull us apart before 2020?

Yes, it's an important issue but not a critical issue now. The critical issue now is protecting, preserving, and ensuring voting rights for non-prisoners, even voting rights for felons who have served their time and are now law-abiding citizens who have had their rights taken away. Voting rights for prisoners is an issue we can debated AFTER we win the 2020 House, Senate, and Presidency!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply Are we really going to allow an issue like voting rights for prisoners pull us apart before 2020? (Original post)
sarabelle Apr 2019 OP
Cha Apr 2019 #1
Laelth Apr 2019 #2
True Dough Apr 2019 #3
IndyOp Apr 2019 #5
sarabelle Apr 2019 #34
True Dough Apr 2019 #35
tymorial Apr 2019 #4
Soxfan58 Apr 2019 #6
empedocles Apr 2019 #7
JI7 Apr 2019 #8
Kaleva Apr 2019 #9
IluvPitties Apr 2019 #10
lillypaddle Apr 2019 #16
MH1 Apr 2019 #20
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #11
pdsimdars Apr 2019 #12
loves_da_dems Apr 2019 #13
Boomer Apr 2019 #14
lillypaddle Apr 2019 #15
marble falls Apr 2019 #18
lillypaddle Apr 2019 #24
Lulu KC Apr 2019 #17
marble falls Apr 2019 #19
BannonsLiver Apr 2019 #32
marble falls Apr 2019 #38
Blue_true Apr 2019 #39
bluedigger Apr 2019 #21
Eyeball_Kid Apr 2019 #22
UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #23
comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #25
Botany Apr 2019 #26
LuvLoogie Apr 2019 #27
LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #28
Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #29
democratisphere Apr 2019 #30
elleng Apr 2019 #31
JudyM Apr 2019 #37
brush Apr 2019 #33
loyalsister Apr 2019 #36
oasis Apr 2019 #40

Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:32 AM

1. Excellent point, sarabelle!

 

Thank You!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:36 AM

2. I doubt it. n/t

 

-Laelth
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:44 AM

3. Have you seen anyone threatening not to vote in the GE over the prisoners' rights issue?

 

I haven't.

The primary forums were created for this purpose. We're going to have differences of opinion. You have Senator Warren's picture at the bottom of your posts. I have Mayor Pete on mine. Many others have Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders.

Somehow, we gotta choose a winner. You're right, the prisoners' voting rights issue is relatively small potatoes. But there will be many others like it as well as some more substantive and more divisive topics.

We need to hash those out. It's a healthy exercise (except for those who vow to stay at home on election day if they don't get their way, but you'll always find a few people like that).

But expect the sniping and bickering to continue until the Democratic National Convention.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:55 AM

5. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:05 PM

34. It's a matter of how we express those differences.

 

I just can't forget the sniping and harmful innuendo of 2016. What we say and how we say it is important to not giving the Russian or any other bots into our house.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Reply #34)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:14 PM

35. I agree that we should keep it respectful

 

The challenge is that it quickly becomes very sensitive ground. Many of us get invested in our candidates, philosophically, ideologically and even emotionally. When someone criticizes them, the reaction can sometimes get nasty in a hurry. It doesn't take long for things to devolve into a tit-for-tat situation.

Best that we try to keep ourselves in line, but I have a feeling juries will be called upon frequently over the next several months.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:51 AM

4. I can agree with this entirely.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:56 AM

6. There is nothing wrong with a good respectful debate

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:25 AM

7. 'con opponents would like to have, in the general election, to have Dem candidates,

 

with Dem inflicted targets on the Dem candidates backs.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:29 AM

8. it's not really that important an issue. and it would just allow white violent criminals

 

to have their vote counted more than black people and other minorities who are not in prison and free but whose votes get suppressed.

but all the democratic candidates have come out to oppose violent prisoners being allowed to vote so that aren't really letting it get to them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:40 AM

9. A non-issue. Nobody is threatening to vote 3rd party or not at all because of this

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:51 AM

10. Supporting voting rights for violent offenders will kill our chances.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:34 AM

16. Agree

 

Already it's splattered all over the place online. Where are the priorities, people?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:24 AM

20. 100% agree.

 

There are real, well-meaning progressives who are pushing it because they believe in it, and can't see the forest for that one tree.

But at the same time, they are getting plenty of help from the ratf*ckers on the other side who are just rubbing their hands with glee.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:52 AM

11. Have vigorous debates this year. In 2020 UNITE behind the Democratic candidate. Unite in 2020. . .nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:20 AM

12. Amen to that, get a grip

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:25 AM

13. It's not tearing us apart

 

It's a discussion among friends. In addition it is an important issue, the prison system is just another tool in the racist tool bag. It's used to suppress the vote.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:31 AM

14. Debate and discussion is always appropriate

 

I don't equate debate -- even vigorous debate -- as divisive. Some people have a low tolerance for disagreement and start wringing their hands when everyone doesn't get along, but that's what smelling salts are for. Stock up, it's going to be a very bump ride this year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:32 AM

15. I can't believe this

 

What are people thinking? Really, you want to risk losing the election so that murderers can vote? I swear to god ... that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:53 AM

18. Do you really think this issue resignates with either side that it will make any difference at all?

 

Especially when minor drug convictions represent about 70% of the incarcerated, not murderers????
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to marble falls (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:43 AM

24. I think it absolutely will resonate

 

for those who are on the line on whether or not to stay with trump or vote for someone who will let a serial killer vote. Look, I agree with you that killers are probably a minority, but that is not the what will be pushed. Already I've seen stuff about how the Dems want to let the Boston bomber vote. For me personally, I don't give much of a shit whether they vote or not.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:50 AM

17. excellent point n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:04 AM

19. Lets get rid of the "Violent prisoners voting" lie first ...

 

5 facts about crime in the U.S.
By John Gramlich

Donald Trump made fighting crime a central focus of his campaign for president, and he cited it again during his January 2017 inaugural address. His administration has since taken steps intended to address crime in American communities, such as instructing federal prosecutors to pursue the strongest possible charges against criminal suspects. Here are five facts about crime in the United States.

1 Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. The two most commonly cited sources of crime statistics in the U.S. both show a substantial decline in the violent crime rate since it peaked in the early 1990s. One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span. (For both studies, 2017 is the most recent full year of data.) The long-term decline in violent crime hasn’t been uninterrupted, though. The FBI, for instance, reported increases in the violent crime rate between 2004 and 2006 and again between 2014 and 2016.
Crime rates have fallen since the early 1990s

2 Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. FBI data show that the rate fell by 50% between 1993 and 2017, while BJS reports a decline of 69% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime.

3 Public perception of crime rate at odds with data3Public perceptions about crime in the U.S. often don’t align with the data. Opinion surveys regularly find that Americans believe crime is up nationally, even when the data show it is down. In 18 of 22 Gallup surveys since 1993 that have asked about national crime, at least six-in-ten Americans said there was more crime in the U.S. compared with the year before, despite the generally downward trend in national violent and property crime rates during most of that period.

Pew Research Center surveys have found a similar pattern. In a survey in late 2016, 57% of registered voters said crime in the U.S. had gotten worse since 2008, even though FBI and BJS data show that violent and property crime rates declined by double-digit percentages during that span.

While perceptions of rising crime at the national level are common, fewer Americans tend to say crime is up when asked about the local level. In all 21 Gallup surveys that have included the question since 1996, no more than about half of Americans have said crime is up in their area compared with the year before.

4 There are large geographic variations in crime rates. The BJS data don’t allow for specific geographic comparisons, but the FBI data show big differences from state to state and city to city. In 2017, there were more than 600 violent crimes per 100,000 residents in Alaska, New Mexico and Tennessee. By contrast, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont had rates below 200 violent crimes per 100,000 residents. And while Chicago has drawn widespread attention for its soaring murder total in recent years, its murder rate in 2017 – 24.1 murders and non-negligent manslaughters per 100,000 residents – was less than half of the rates in St. Louis (66.1 per 100,000) and Baltimore (55.8 per 100,000). The FBI notes that various factors might influence a particular area’s crime rate, including its population density and economic conditions.

5 Most crimes are not reported to police, and most reported crimes are not solved. In its annual survey, BJS asks victims of crime whether they reported that crime to police. In 2017, only 45% of violent crimes tracked by BJS were reported to police. And in the much more common category of property crime, only about a third (36%) were reported. There are a variety of reasons crime might not be reported, including a feeling that police “would not or could not do anything to help” or that the crime is “a personal issue or too trivial to report,” according to BJS.

Most of the crimes that are reported to police, meanwhile, are not solved, at least based on an FBI measure known as the “clearance rate.” That’s the share of cases each year that are closed, or “cleared,” through the arrest, charging and referral of a suspect for prosecution (or through “exceptional means,” such as the death of a suspect or a victim’s refusal to cooperate with a prosecution). In 2017, police nationwide cleared 46% of violent crimes that were reported to them. For property crimes, the national clearance rate was 18%.

Note: This is an update of a post originally published Feb. 21, 2017.

The prisons are filled with non violent criminals. Violent criminals already walk among us. The US has both the highest population of imprisoned in the world and the high percentage of its population imprisoned.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to marble falls (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:29 PM

32. Americans don't really do facts or nuance

 

The GOP will produce ads saying the Dems want Dylan Roof and the Boston. Bombers to be able to vote, or any high profile killer over the last few decades, and the people will believe it because it’s very easy for the GOP to draw that picture. It won’t matter if it’s true, or not. If you’re explaining you’re losing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:03 PM

38. The other option is rolling over. Accomodating. I am not interested in the ignorant

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:46 PM

39. Bingo.

 

That is why the idea of allowing people serving time is so misfocused. The GOP will rip us apart with lies if we embrace that and the overall public will wonder what the hell we were thinking.

But, if we embrace criminal justice reform by pointing out that some guy, who never had a record, should not go to prison for having police find a dime bag of pot on him, the general public would embrace that because they see logic in that argument.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:25 AM

21. Willie Horton comes to mind.

 

I'm just glad it's a philosophical discussion at this point (which I happen to support), since our candidate will have little influence on making any actual change. I would like to see some debate on the platform committee level at the convention, though. Maybe 2024.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:30 AM

22. Beware of "narratives" being driven by foreign sources.

 

That should be the bigger issue. We've got Russians and Chinese and Saudis and others all gleefully jumping into the election influence game. Citizens United casts a very long shadow. (I still recall Sam Alito vehemently denying that this very thing would happen at one of Obama's SOTU speeches-- his first one, I believe.) Now the big money from everywhere is in on the action.

Our political differences need to be placed in perspective. It's more than likely that, when the knives sharpen among factions, the ones sharpening the knives are from Russia.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:37 AM

23. Yes I think we all need to be suspicious and pay scrutiny to this. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:30 AM

25. Isn't that the whole point of these kind of proposals? To pull us apart.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:41 AM

26. This is a 100% made up problem and just like Hillary's emails the GOP is gonna push ....

 

... "death row supports the dems" 24/7.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:47 AM

27. Bernie is chumming for the debate stage. The moderators will play it up.

 

I really don't think he has an interest in the Presidency. He is the Yin to Bannon's Yang. He is more interested demolition than fixing the roof.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:56 AM

28. Of course not; that's why it needs to be used to take Sanders out during the primaries

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:59 AM

29. No..way more important issues. This has to do with Sanders.

 

His supporters agree with every word he says and then will insist it is correct. Sometimes it is not.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:07 AM

30. This is a non issue.

 

Let's get back to the important business at hand; getting rid of drumpf et al.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:31 AM

31. Likely some (many?) would LIKE such an issue, or ANY issue, to pull us apart.

 

I'm not fishing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to elleng (Reply #31)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:06 PM

37. That's exactly the issue.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:58 PM

33. Shouldn't this be about restoring voting rights to ex-prisoners?

 

That is the issue. Let's not get distracted by those pushing yet another divisive distraction from our goal which is a unified front to defeat the orange criminal in the WH.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:46 PM

36. I don't see that happening

 

Although, I would like to hear Democratic candidates speak credibly about gerrymandering by addressing citizenship revocation and counting disenfranchised bodies within districts to the advantage of conservative politicians and voters.
Voting is not a reward. And it is not affirmed as a right in the Constitution, though some of us would like for it to be.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Sun Apr 28, 2019, 02:11 AM

40. Non-starter. Radio-active issue for Democrats in 2020. I'd be more

 

than willing to listen after the elections.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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