Can we have an honest conversation about Bernie?

Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:14 PM

CincyDem (4,898 posts)

1. Awesome summary and perspective. Thanks. n/t

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:03 AM

Rilgin (786 posts)

46. Can sum this up. You hate Bernie and everyone should vote for the candidate you prefer

I could repeat every line of your post from the other side. People who support Bernie and Warren are concerned that centrist candidates will lose the election and more importantly will fail to improve life in America. The only thing that most people on this site don't do is post constant hatred on the other candidates although such posts are not non-existent. They are just not as many or as constant from the same players who echo every negative mention of Bernie. There is a division in the democratic party but you ignore that it is both ways. This may be the year that the centrists hold their nose and vote for a Democratic Party Candidate that they think will lose an election like some of us have done in past election cycles. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:25 AM

Bluepinky (1,949 posts)

104. Yes! Many of us would have preferred to vote for more progressive candidates in the past.

Some of the best champions of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party are gone, and they’re sorely missed: Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, Al Franken. But we still have Bernie, and he’s still fighting the good fight. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #104)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:37 AM

MFM008 (18,870 posts)

133. Your ignoring the facts

And just yelling Bernie Bernie Bernie at them. Now watch how many scary commercials the Republicans throw out about communism. All it took was Dukakis in a tank. All it took was Kerry in a suit that made him Look like a teletubbie in baby blue. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #133)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:45 AM

calimary (61,645 posts)

209. That's exactly what I worry about.

Too many people are spooked by the term socialist. And one can argue all day about the fine points of socialism being beneficial to wide swaths of America that thrive with socialist programs (Medicare! Social Security!) but the sad fact is that people are spooked by the “socialism” label. So we will have an uphill battle, particularly against a so-called pResident who is a master at salesmanship, sloganeering, and schtick. And he’ll start pounding on the “ists” - socialist/Communist/fascist/you-name-it-ist. And the low-information voter who only resonates with the circus razzmatazz from the Ringmaster-in-Chief with all his baloney-slinging and shiny-object distraction tricks is already preconditioned to fall for it all. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to calimary (Reply #209)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:23 PM

Gobbierella (15 posts)

242. Sooner ot later we need to have this discussion

We're finally in a place where many young people are on board with the agenda of Bernie regardless of what we call it. I think many older people would be on board with that agenda if it was called something else. You're right that it's about marketing and sooner or later we're going to have to explain the agenda isn't scary and maybe call it something else but if we have to have this discussion why not have it now? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #104)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:06 PM

blm (106,011 posts)

284. Franken leaned moderate.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to blm (Reply #284)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:20 PM

Bluepinky (1,949 posts)

285. He was pretty progressive.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #285)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:27 PM

blm (106,011 posts)

286. Yes, he is progressive and leans moderate.

Many Dems are progressive and have moderate leanings. Many moderate Dems have progressive leanings. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:30 AM

Rene (1,183 posts)

171. Bernie is very uninspiring and ineffective

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rene (Reply #171)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:30 AM

Boomer (3,549 posts)

184. Biden is very uninspiring and ineffective

There. You've stated your subjective opinion and I've stated mine. I'm willing to vote for Sanders if he's the candidate, just as I'm willing to vote for Biden if he wins. I'm not a sore loser. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden This is the DU member formerly known as Boomer.

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Response to Boomer (Reply #184)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:43 AM

McKim (1,859 posts)

188. Biden Brings War Baggage

For me, having lost a family member in Vietnam, I remember distinctly how Biden advocated for the War on Iraq and then voted for it. This is a non starter for me. We can’t have more of these wars, period. About a million Iraqis died in the war, according to The Lancet. This is rather a serious error on Biden’s part. I would have real trouble holding my nose for that one. However I would vote blue no matter who, but please, no more wars! If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Boomer (Reply #184)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 02:04 AM

Cha (269,175 posts)

295. Biden is definitely Inspiring with excellent experience and

qualifications to be POTUS. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #295)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 07:42 AM

Boomer (3,549 posts)

297. Your subjective opinion, not mine

I'm glad you find him inspiring, that's always a good thing. And if he can get the nomination, I'll vote for him, even if I don't find him inspiring. But if Biden was as inspiring as you seem to think he is, I would expect him to do better. To me, he feels like he's phone it in, like Jeb Bush in 2016. Running because everyone else tells him it's the thing to do, but not really all that into himself. I wish Biden had run in 2016 -- I think that was his time, and now is not. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden This is the DU member formerly known as Boomer.

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:33 AM

rzemanfl (28,512 posts)

185. What was the name of Clinton's cat?

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #185)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:11 AM

calimary (61,645 posts)

220. Socks.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:46 AM

Farmer-Rick (4,762 posts)

195. Yeah, you are right.

I clicked on this post hoping for an honest conversation but was sorely disappointed. It's nothing but a I hate Bernie rant with a little less emotional language. Next up, throw the Communism fake label at Bernie. Let's face it we all know Russian Communism is Not socialism. But the I hate Bernie groups (I suspect they are promoted by Russian Trolls and filthy rich who may have to pay taxes) will pretend we believe that right wing talking point. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #195)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:53 AM

luvtheGWN (1,074 posts)

213. The American public, since the Cold War days, have been convinced

that any talk of socialism equates with Russian communism. I'm sorry to say that Nance is absolutely correct when she says folks aren't going to pay any attention to anyone at the door who tries to explain what democratic socialism is -- they believe what they want to believe, and it's been hammered into their heads that "socialism" or any description that includes that word, is BAD. As a Canadian, I truly, truly wish that my American pals could all enjoy the freedom that comes with universal healthcare. I've heard too many personal stories of people suffering AFTER they've received life-saving treatments with worries of whether their usurious insurance companies will pay at least a percentage of their massive hospital bills. I've sent money to some of them to help in some small way. Having said that, I know with unfailing certainty that Sanders as the nominee will be destroyed by the GOP and its monster leader, with ads, speeches and everything else. They will turn everything anyone thinks is GOOD and FAIR and MONEY-Saving about UHC into death panels, loss of freedom and communism. They will dig up (or make up) any dirt they can use to convince the voting public that Sanders is THE WORST thing that could ever happen to the US. Sure, they'll do that with every other candidate, but with Sanders they have a very effective cudgel to use. Think about what another 4 years of the Monster will do to your beloved country. He's destroying the American ideal bit by bit. It's not the same as it once was, and I truly fear you will be under the hammer of a dictator. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to luvtheGWN (Reply #213)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:18 AM

maddiemom (4,978 posts)

221. Well said.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to luvtheGWN (Reply #213)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:30 AM

llashram (2,322 posts)

225. Democratic socialism

is dressed up Eugene V. Debs socialism, based on the writings of Karl Marx. That's a fact. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to llashram (Reply #225)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:11 PM

Stainless (655 posts)

233. Eugene V. Debs is a hero to many informed/intelligent people.

He went to prison for his socialism/beliefs. Fuck your smarmy "facts". If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Stainless (Reply #233)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:37 PM

llashram (2,322 posts)

256. okay

and...everyone needs a hero. You shouldn't do that with "smarmy facts" in public. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to luvtheGWN (Reply #213)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:40 PM

Rilgin (786 posts)

232. Unfailing certainty is great prose.

We have faced unfailing certainty for decades claims that triangulation and moderation/centrism is the best political strategy. And it has worked sometimes but during these decades we lost the Senate, the House, governors races, state legislatures, the courts all while we as democratic voters had triangulating candidates pushed forward under claims that they were with unfailing certainty the best and most qualified candidates with the best political strategies. The ones that lost often ran safe campaigns only designed to not upset certain demographics. Perhaps the paradigm that would hold Bernie as unelectable because he is both consistent and stands for something is completely backward. Just because certain groups fear his candidacy does not mean that he is unelectable, it means it is a standard run of the mill election. There is always something about every candidate that is disliked or feared by some parts of the electorate. Despite the desperate claims of the Bernie Hating contingent on this site, he is generally held in high regard and is and has been one of the most popular politicians in polls for the last few years because he stands for something. And of course not everyone likes him just as not everyone likes any Politian. No politician gets all the votes of the electorate in recent memory unless its a dictatorship. Saying some people wont vote for him is true but misleading since that is just a truism. We can see right before our eyes the coalition that is forming that will vote for Sanders and its a pretty big and strong coalition. Your fear is just mentioning that there are some groups that you fear will not. That is always true in an election. In my mind, Sanders may be the best person to remove Trump and be president. He has an organization, excitement, does not scare people that feel like the Country needs substantial reforms, has a history of support for the issues that polls show people like and is pretty nimble when debating. However, I will admit that my opinion is said with less than unfailing certainty. However, this may not even be the main competitive factor of this election and the actual democratic candidate name irrelevant. This election also pits the mood of many in the country to remove Trump against the true believing Trump cultists. This may be the only factor that decides the election. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #232)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:03 PM

wnylib (5,288 posts)

250. OK. Tell me what are the projected

demographics of Sanders votes in the general election? All candidates have strategies for gaining enough votes to win. What is the Sanders strategy, state by state? Which states does he project to win in order to gain a majority in the electoral college? All candidates face opposing candidates. What is the Sanders strategy for countering the Republican opposition? In order to counter the opposition's message, it is necessary to anticipate the opposition message and be prepared with a counter message. What will be the Trump message against Sanders, and how will Sanders successfully counter it to get a majority of electoral votes? This is your chance to argue his case in detail. And for the record, I am not a Sanders hater. I do not oppose MFA or free tuition. My own politics are left of the centrists. My concern about a Sanders candidacy is that the timing is wrong to make his programs the focal point of a crucial election. His supporters are feeling frustrated by lack of support among centrist Dems. That is nothing compared to voters outside of the Dem umbrella. The strongest divisions in the nation are between the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum - the hard core RW supporters of Trump and the strongly committed progressive wing of Dems. In between are the majority of people who identify as Republican but moderate, and those who identify as Dems but centrist. Independents are not a monolithic group. Some lean left; others lean right. One far right leaning candidate vs one far left leaning candidate forces people in the middle to abandon the middle and go to one end or the other. Which direction will the majority of them fall toward when forced to choose? How will preconceived ideas about either end influence which way they will go? How many will refuse to be forced and wiil go 3rd party or sit it out? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #232)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:55 PM

luvtheGWN (1,074 posts)

262. Just so you know,

my stated opinion has nothing to do with any hatred for Sanders. I reserve that feeling for the current monster in the White House. But I do happen to think your optimism about the electorate may be over-ridden by the actuality. It remains to be seen. My progressive Democratic friends don't hate Bernie either, but if he's the nominee, they will definitely vote for him. Most of them believe Elizabeth Warren is more electable. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:23 PM

MarcA (1,706 posts)

235. Agreed and this should be an OP.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:23 PM

beerandjesus (1,301 posts)

243. That's pretty much why I've quit coming around here.

For all of my adult life, Democrats have been telling me we need to vote for the most right-wing candidate because that's how we win against Republicans. Somehow, we keep losing and losing and losing. Well, I'm done. If you really want to beat Trump, there is one and only one choice, however hard the MSNBC boomers struggle to delude themselves. But we've seen that the party elite would rather lose to Donald Trump than give progressives a voice in the party. I'm not playing along anymore. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #243)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:26 PM

LiberalFighter (41,304 posts)

289. Vote for the most right wing candidate?

Who were those right wing candidates? Obama on govtrack's scale was in the first sector in a five sector graph with the first being the left. Clinton was nearly there. And both showing some leadership experience. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:44 PM

we can do it (9,403 posts)

277. You just reinforced her point🙄.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:36 PM

milan755803 (5 posts)

278. No hate here

Rilgin, just because I or someone else prefers another candidate rather than Sen. Sanders, does not mean we hate him! That is a completely erronious bit of thinking on your part as I see it. I like Sen. Sanders utopian ideas: free health care for all, free college tuition, etc. Yes, that would be nice, but I do not believe it is possible. Nice ideas and promises but not practical. Further, I sincerely believe that Sanders could not win if nominated. The Republicans would be unmerciful in attacking him (as they will with any Democrat) but they will forevermore pin the Socialist label on him and I truly thing that will not abide well with most voters. We need someone who can beat Trump and I do not think it would be Sen.Sanders. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to milan755803 (Reply #278)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 05:33 AM

Rhiannon12866 (127,832 posts)

296. Thank you for your reasoned response and welcome to DU!

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:17 AM

COLGATE4 (14,516 posts)

65. Once again you have hit the nail on the head.

Thank you for this,as well as for many other excellent posts. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden This is the DU member formerly known as COLGATE4.

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:45 PM

olegramps (7,968 posts)

269. Sander's statements praising communistic regimes many believe will sink him and our party.

His enthusiastic supporters want to ignore this fact, however, the Republicans will cut him to shreds. They will use his very words to paint him as an admirer of Castro and Communistic murderous dictators. The Republicans are praying that he wins the nomination. It is the height of irony that Putin, a bloody murder, is supporting his nomination knowing that he will be defeated by his own statements. Just how realistic are his promises that he can deliver Medicare for All, free college, high paying jobs, all financed by taxes on the wealthy. Judging from his abysmal record in the congress of naming a couple of post offices I have as much faith in his promises as those of Trump who promised a universal health care plan that never materialized. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to olegramps (Reply #269)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:27 PM

LiberalFighter (41,304 posts)

290. Lee Atwater would have pouced on that just like he did

with Dukakis in the tank. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:15 PM

aeromanKC (2,107 posts)

2. +1000

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:21 PM

apcalc (4,176 posts)

3. Very well said. I believe Mr Sanders will have no coattails.

There will be many downballot losses, it will take years to recover. We will lose close races. Any gains we have had will be wiped out. I am in PA . Now there are 6 neighbors who say they do not want Trump , but Sanders and Warren are too far left. We need these people on our side. They like Joe, they like Amy. They will vote for a moderate. Sorry, but I see disaster. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to apcalc (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:54 AM

DanieRains (2,658 posts)

95. Nance Now Explain Why So Many Voted For Obama Then Voted For Trump?

Because they thought Democrats didn't fight for them. We all know we fight harder for working folks than Republicans, but many Americas are not that bright. Bernie has fought for the powerless from the '60's. From minimum wage, to unions. I know working for the poor and powerless isn't as popular as being a regular moderate, but for some of us it makes all the difference. 100 million Americans don't vote because they (and we have all heard it before) "hate politicians". There is not a lot to hate in someone who has worked for the poor, and powerless their entire career. I say Bernie could get 20% or 30% of the non voters to have someone to follow, just like with Obama promising "change" then getting ambushed by the Republicans. Changing a government where the 1% gets paid first EVERY TIME will be hard. They say Bernie can't do it. And unless 100 Million Americans demand a government that represents ALL AMERICANS they will be right. Bernie, and no one else can do it. The attacks by the 1% supporting folks will be devastating. Americans are afraid, for good reason. America is and oligarchy. Time someone changed that. I hope people realize how badly they are being screwed, while debt is piled on their kids like never before and demand someone who wants the wealthy to actually pay taxes like us working fools do. I will support whoever our nominee is. A burning bag of dog poop would make a better president than Trump. I also think after watching Hillary ignore Trump's dirty deeds, Bernie will attack Trump in a way that will make Bloombergs ads seem like what Don Jr. would do. He deserves it. God Help Us. If we stand together, we win. I do know one thing. Bernie didn't go into politics to get a well paid lobbying job when he is done campaigning. Have a great evening my friends. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DanieRains (Reply #95)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:33 AM

betsuni (15,741 posts)

149. Why so many voted for Obama then voted for Trump:

The economy was terrible by 2007, the Republican Party deeply unpopular after eight years. Despite the improving economy under the Obama administration people perceived a bad one: "Indeed, Obama was the only president since John F. Kennedy whose approval ratings did not increase alongside consumer sentiment. In fact, in Obama's case, the relationship between consumer sentiment and his approval rating was actually negative." Whites increasingly became Republicans: "In Pew Research Center surveys from 2007, whites were just as likely to call themselves Democrats as they were to call themselves Republicans. But by 2010, whites were 12 points more likely to be Republicans than Democrats." This trend continued. Quotes from "Identity Crisis." If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DanieRains (Reply #95)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:34 AM

AverageJoe (2,275 posts)

207. Spot on. n/t

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:21 PM

leftieNanner (9,237 posts)

4. Excellent!

Thanks for your thoughtful post Nance. I completely agree. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:22 PM

Hermit-The-Prog (19,523 posts)

5. We shouldn't have to sacrifice the country so BS can go out in a blaze of glory.

We will all vote for him if he gets the nomination, but we won't be enough to win the general election. How will he do that when he divides instead of unifies? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:13 AM

AZ8theist (3,265 posts)

59. He won't care.

He'll take his millions in left-over campaign funds and go back to being an "Independent" Senator. And show a GIANT MIDDLE FINGER to the Democratic Party. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to AZ8theist (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:12 AM

COLGATE4 (14,516 posts)

189. X100!

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden This is the DU member formerly known as COLGATE4.

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Response to AZ8theist (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:01 PM

calimary (61,645 posts)

229. That's another thing that still bothers me about him.

Used our name, our party infrastructure, our party’s money and campaign structures and email lists and then when he didn’t win, took his ball and went home, kicking our party to the curb and going “independent” again. It felt strongly like a “well, the hell with you, then” slap in the face. My face still feels the sting of that slap. Every time I see or hear him. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:17 AM

dalton99a (59,266 posts)

66. .

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:30 PM

LiberalFighter (41,304 posts)

291. The way I read the delegate and convention rules it would disqualify him.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:23 PM

Gidney N Cloyd (17,907 posts)

6. k&r

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:24 PM

BeyondGeography (36,687 posts)

7. Bernie is a formidable Democratic primary candidate

He would also unleash a shitstorm of negative advertising like we’ve never seen in the GE. The biggest problem wouldn’t be the socialism either, it would be patriotism and it would be ugly. Worst of all, there are facts in his past that would make the attacks difficult to parry. Knowing Bernie, his responses would more likely make things worse instead of better. He would be playing nonstop defense and our candidates down-ticket would have to head for the hills. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:25 PM

MisterFred (525 posts)

8. Political sites don't represent American voters.

We self-select for an interest in politics. An interest most voters do not share. See, for example, the big difference between who democratic voters are currently voting for & the preferences on DU & Dkos. Don't use opinion on political sites to try to understand voters. They're two very different populations. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to MisterFred (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:52 AM

ProfessorPlum (11,081 posts)

197. I tried to make this point a while ago

by pointing out that whoever "wins" the debate on DU will have ~0 effect on how voters in the wild will vote. It was not well received. But I appreciate your wise perspective. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #197)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:58 AM

MisterFred (525 posts)

199. Love your username. nt

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #197)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:38 PM

Perseus (4,341 posts)

275. Those bickering are trying to take people away from Sanders

My feeling is that if other candidate were on top they would be going after that person, and of course saying 'that person would loose to trump'. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:25 PM

greatauntoftriplets (171,831 posts)

9. By far, this is the best OP I've read all day.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:48 AM

defacto7 (13,485 posts)

93. Ditto

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:25 PM

Bonobo (29,257 posts)

10. Why start now?

It's been nothing but dishonesty here. Starting with the lie that he is a socialist and proceeding from there. Furthermore, your list of "facts" are not "facts" Here is one of the things YOU pretend (dishonestly) is a fact: "We know that Trump, the Russians, and the GOP are dying to see Bernie as the Dem nominee. " But it's not a fact. It's an opinion and one that does not suggest very sophisticated or subtle thinking IMO. So no, I do not get the impression that you are capable of an "honest discussion" about Sanders. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:30 PM

NanceGreggs (26,124 posts)

15. So Trump is defending Bernie ...

... because he's terrified that Bernie will beat him in the GE? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 AM

Hassin Bin Sober (23,792 posts)

80. And there is is.

Glad I tl;dr’d this 1/4 of the way through and skipped to comments. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:36 PM

jmowreader (44,558 posts)

17. Hold on for a second

Watch this: He comes right out and says, "I am a socialist." If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:31 AM

cheezmaka (718 posts)

172. Trump's Camp is definitely gonna play this during the GE

They're gonna have a FIELD DAY with this one... If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:03 AM

Progressive dog (6,210 posts)

217. He's said that numerous times

and then has explained why he doesn't use that term anymore. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:37 PM

TwilightZone (20,384 posts)

18. "Starting with the lie that he is a socialist "

He's been calling himself a socialist for decades, so who's lying? Sanders? I can't believe that anyone is still making the ridiculous assertion that Sanders isn't a socialist. Perhaps you should tell him, because he hasn't gotten the memo. https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/ If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:00 AM

LovingA2andMI (6,849 posts)

98. What will be funny....and downright sad....

Is Bernie Sanders diehard supporters trying to prove he is "not a socialist" when he says all day, every day, he is a socialist. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:05 AM

peggysue2 (7,641 posts)

121. x 1000!

Does anyone really think that the great swath of Americans, those who have a living memory of the disaster that socialism was and is, will accept Sanders' explanation of Democratic Socialism? If so, I have an Atlantic Ocean beachfront property to sell you in Kansas. And btw, when you're explaining, you're losing. Add that to the general divisiveness of Bernie Sanders' message, the unicorn and lollipop promises, not to mention the inability and unwillingness to back anything up with actual numbers, as in Math, and the whole schtick is a House of Cards. I will vote for the Democratic nominee, even if it's Bernie Sanders. But there are people like my husband who will refuse. This is a man who has been voting Democratic since Clinton's second term. He'd voted for Poppy Bush because he truly admired the man. But once he saw the Repugs in action while Clinton served his first term, he was thoroughly disgusted. He's been voting for the Democratic Party ever since. But tonight at dinner he said, "Sorry, I cannot and will not vote for Sanders. You'll have to go to the polls by yourself." That's one vote lost and I can guarantee you, there will be many, many more if the Senator from Vermont captures the nomination. Because the majority of Americans will not vote socialist to replace Trump. Bernie supporters can jump up and down and say it's untrue and unfair. But people like my husband, socially liberal but fiscally moderate, will simply stay home. And then, we can all hope we survive the next four frigging years of a demented mobster in the White House. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:39 PM

democratisphere (17,235 posts)

22. BS has no idea how he is going to pay for all of the sh't he has promised everyone

and his brother and sister. How can you have an honest conversation about a guy when he can't even begin to be honest himself. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:09 AM

SunSeeker (44,063 posts)

54. We are a reality based community, Bonobo.

It is a fact that the Russians are helping Bernie be the nominee. Mueller stated in the Mueller Report that Russians were doing that in 2016. And the IC (Intelligence Community) determined that Russians are helping Bernie be the 2020 Dem nominee. Bernie admits he was informed of this a month ago. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html The GOP want Bernie to be the Democratic nominee. Down-ballot Republicans watch with glee as Sanders gains steam. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/21/congress-sanders-republicans-trump-116523 Trump wants Bernie to be the Democratic nominee. He keeps tweeting to goad Bernie on. He just urged Bernie, "don't let them take it [the Dem nomination] away from you." Link to tweet Those facts are...facts. The OP is not being "dishonest." She is stating reality. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:38 AM

ripcord (1,658 posts)

84. So if Bernie drops out and Putin switches his support to Biden will you expect Biden to drop out?

Then he can switch to Buttigieg, and he will have to drop and then Warren, then Bloomberg, then Kobuchar and so on. Of course we all know that once Sanders is gone the goalposts will be moved and other candidates won't be expected to drop out. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to ripcord (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:49 AM

SunSeeker (44,063 posts)

94. Putin would not switch his support to Biden. Maybe to Gabbard.

The OP does not oppose Bernie for our nominee because Russia supports him. The issue is WHY Putin, the GOP and and Trump want Bernie to get the nom. The OP makes very clear why they do. None of those reasons exist with Biden, Buttigieg, Warren, or Klobuchar. The OP's biggest problem with Bernie is not his Russian support: But my biggest problem is the fact that so many Bernie supporters are simply ignoring the facts. Bernie is divisive at a time when we need to be united – and that doesn’t bode well for beating Trump in November. If Bernie can’t unite Democrats, he won’t be uniting the country any time soon.  If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:34 AM

Bluepinky (1,949 posts)

108. Trump and Putin are trying to sow discord and divisiveness in the Democratic Party.

And judging by the comments seen here, they’re doing a fantastic job. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:00 AM

tecelote (4,731 posts)

147. +1!

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:43 AM

MFM008 (18,870 posts)

134. Im old enough to remember

Maggot NOT coming out on the white house lawn And congratulate Mayor Pete on his win in Iowa. That did NOT Happen. It DID happen for Sanders. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:29 AM

Progressive dog (6,210 posts)

224. Sweden does have socialized medicine. Bernie wants to copy it

and he wants to centralize it. The Swedish health care system is mainly government-funded, universal for all citizens and decentralized, although private health care also exists. A shortage of medical personnel is a major problem. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities. Prescription drugs are not free but fees to the user are capped at 2,200 kr per annum. Once a patient's prescriptions reach this amount, the government covers any further expenses for the rest of the year. Private health insurance is still allowed, though. Bernie would rip it away so that his plan would not have any thing to compare it with. ccording to Nima Sanandaji, at the end of 2017, 643,000 individuals in Sweden were fully covered by private health insurance, which is 6.5% of the population of Sweden. This is an increase of over half a million fully covered by private health insurance compared to 2000.[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Sweden#Details_and_patient_costs If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:53 PM

LanternWaste (36,854 posts)

248. You'll fail to see the irony in your allegation of others being dishonest.

I'm glad you found free time... guess there's no benign PSA's to get upset over. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:26 PM

dalton99a (59,266 posts)

11. A great post and accurate summary

which surely will be attacked by fanatical followers If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:27 PM

DonaldsRump (5,402 posts)

12. Really well said!

I will 100% support Bernie if he wins the nomination, but he won't win the Presidency for exactly the reasons you say. Why else would the Russians support Bernie? I like Bernie, and in an ideal world, some of the things he talks about are what I would like to see in the USA. But this is not an ideal world, and it is 100% crystal clear that the label "socialist" or "communist" is what they will smear Bernie with. Unfortunately, there may be more truth than the usual Rus-publican smear, and again they will be aided by the Russians. I think in the next couple of weeks the D candidates need to hit Bernie hard about exactly why the Russians are helping him and, frankly, why he took a month to make this public. I'm not for a moment suggesting Bernie is in cahoots with the Russians, but he sure has benefited from their illegal support and it's now time to bring that to voters' attention. As I said, I will support Bernie if he is our nominee. However, he shouldn't be our nominee, and we will clearly lose if he is the nominee. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden This is the DU member formerly known as DonaldsRump.

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Response to DonaldsRump (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:22 PM

smirkymonkey (58,451 posts)

255. +1000

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:27 PM

rwheeler31 (6,183 posts)

13. Thank you Nance this is the most ugly primary

and I fear the truth is losing. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:29 PM

BadgerMom (2,099 posts)

14. K and R

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:31 PM

relayerbob (3,489 posts)

16. Thank you

Now, can the moderates somehow stop their futile competition no single one of them can win alone and form some sort of a Democratic Unity Coalition behind one of them (personally, I'd propose EW, but Biden with EW as VP might work well, too), so we can quit splitting the vote and giving Sanders wins with 30% of the vote (yes, I know he did better than that in NV)? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to relayerbob (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:47 PM

Blue_true (29,809 posts)

31. The moderates won't.

You see how their supporters on DU are trashing other moderate candidates. The candidates have egos, will Biden withdraw if he doesn't do well in South Carolina? Will Warren withdraw if she finishes fourth or fifth? There are big egos involved, for Biden this is his last stand, likely the same for Warren. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:54 PM

relayerbob (3,489 posts)

34. Didn't say they would

But sure is a nice fantasy dream If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to relayerbob (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:59 PM

Blue_true (29,809 posts)

41. If they don't withdraw, at some point Sanders will have too much momentum, like Trump in 16. nt

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:29 AM

TwilightZone (20,384 posts)

77. Yeah, it has a lot of simularities.

Trump basically picked the candidates off one by one because there were too many of them to start and the few remaining couldn't figure out how to rally behind one anti-Trump candidate to stop him. The perfect storm. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:37 PM

Haggis for Breakfast (6,831 posts)

19. On Stephanie Miller's show last week,

Malcolm Nance enumerated beautifully and concisely (as only he can) how much the Russians are invested* in seeing Bernie get the DNC nod at the convention. They are determined to sow chaos in any way they can, and that includes dividing up the Dems and siccing them upon one another. Putin knows that Bernie is divisive in so many ways, and that by driving a wedge through the party, he can (once again) control and manipulate our election. *as in terms of millions of dollars, especially in cyber/bot ops of disinformation. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:12 AM

Cha (269,175 posts)

127. Damn.. we knew it!

Thanks for that, Haggis If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:37 PM

Cal Carpenter (4,920 posts)

20. He wins nearly every demographic of Democratic voters

Including moderates, along with a plurality of independents. He is bringing an incredibly diverse coalition of voters to the polls when it comes to race, ethnicity, age, education, and income. Far more so than any other candidate in the field. How that makes him "an extremely divisive figure" I may never understand. And the people voting for him are doing so either because of or in spite of his association with democratic socialism. It i s very well known. There is no gotcha moment coming from that. National polls don't mean much but he does as good or better than everyone else in the field in head to heads against Trump, with the exception of a few polls. This is also true in most state level head to heads. I understand that not everyone agrees with his policies, or likes his personality. I know 3 people personally who have a real problem with him, but that's it, and I talk politics with tons of people in my day job. But his approval ratings in terms of trust, empathy, and electability are actually quite high among Democrats, in most cases better than everyone else in the field. And, most importantly, his actual election results are bearing this out, and his polls continue to climb. To me, this adds up to looking like unity, not division. These are my honest thoughts on the facts of the matter. I hope they come across as such. And virtually every claim I've made is backed up by the poll aggregate sites like RCP and 538. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:25 AM

Doitnow (1,103 posts)

71. Ditto. Go, Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:37 PM

madamesilverspurs (14,541 posts)

21. As a friend of mine put it:

Bernie is doing to the Democratic Party what the Tea Party did to the Republicans. . If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to madamesilverspurs (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:45 PM

Yavin4 (32,040 posts)

28. That would mean the Democrats will win the presidency?

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:39 PM

TCJ70 (4,382 posts)

23. Here? No...I don't think we can.

There are too many posters here who dedicated the last four years to denigrating him and blaming him for everything under the sun that goes wrong anywhere. In addition to the loud ones, there’s a significant majority who silently agree with them. This is the last place you could expect an honest conversation about Sanders. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:40 PM

Steelrolled (1,395 posts)

24. My thoughts exactly. The question made me chuckle.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:40 PM

NanceGreggs (26,124 posts)

25. Yeah, I know.

It's all of that "Bernie hatred" going around, right? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:47 PM

TwilightZone (20,384 posts)

30. Works both ways.

When some of his supporters continue to insist that referring to him as a socialist is a false, right-wing smear, the chances of an honest conversation aren't any higher, and that's just one example. People see what they want to see, and if you're only seeing false information from supporters of other candidates, it's because that's all you're looking for. There are some Sanders supporters on DU who post little other than false information and seemingly are trying to alienate as many people as possible, so much so that I question whether they're really his supporters at all. Some of them have been here for years and have thousands of posts, so if they're trolls, they're rather dedicated ones. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:33 AM

ibegurpard (16,396 posts)

138. yep

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:42 PM

handmade34 (20,655 posts)

26. good

but I think your summary is amiss... I do not think Bernie's supporters have a way to educate the populace about the facts... the people we need to understand have already had their thinking diluted by continual lies and misconceptions spouted by trump and Republicans... the education needed doesn't happen overnight, it takes getting bit by a personal epiphany, something that hits them where it hurts or to someone they love... other than that, what you say is what I have been patiently trying to explain to all around me... Bernie is my Senator I have known him for almost 40 years… and my work for 12 years (since before Obama was elected) took me into neighborhoods all across the United States... I can't say I have a crystal ball but my experience, my research, my heart, my bones tell me that the chances of Bernie beating trump and bringing Dems along with him into Congress is mighty slim If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:45 PM

dalton99a (59,266 posts)

29. Chances of "socialism" gaining ground in the swing states are approximately zero.

This is not an election to satisfy someone's ego If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:54 PM

NanceGreggs (26,124 posts)

35. That was my point ...

... and apologies if I wasn't as clear as I meant to be. The Bernie supporters don't have a way to convince the "I'll never vote for a socialist" folks that he doesn't represent the kind of socialism they are against. And they certainly can't accomplish that between now and November. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:44 PM

Yavin4 (32,040 posts)

27. If everything you've posted is true and is well known, why can't Biden defeat him?

If Biden cannot defeat Bernie, what makes you think that he can beat Trump? Same goes for all of the other candidates. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:39 AM

handmade34 (20,655 posts)

85. Vote Blue no Matter Who

is a great and effective Democratic meme, I think we can count on the majority of Democrats voting for whomever the candidate is... but, we need more than Democrats... there is no room for error If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:39 AM

AverageJoe (2,275 posts)

112. That is a very good point

Bernie, to this point, is the only candidate showing the kind of staying power that will be needed to beat trump. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to AverageJoe (Reply #112)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:11 AM

fleabiscuit (4,487 posts)

126. Ha! "to this point"

It’s been three caucuses in, “to this point.” You have given me chuckle. Rare in these times. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:15 AM

Cha (269,175 posts)

129. Swing States.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:32 AM

NoMoreRepugs (5,407 posts)

206. Republican project chaos, influence of Russian misinformation and influence

campaign - might this be a part of the explanation? At this point I’m not sure anyone knows for sure if they are or are not the reason Biden hasn’t broken through - time will tell maybe?? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:48 PM

democratisphere (17,235 posts)

32. THIS! THIS! THIS!

Extremely well said! Democrats should be electing Democrats, NOT a namby-pamby Independent Democratic Socialist who makes promises he will never be able to keep. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 AM

Doitnow (1,103 posts)

81. Well, why aren't they? Nobody is stopping them.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #81)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:57 AM

democratisphere (17,235 posts)

97. Sometimes when someone repeats the same thing over and over

again, SOME people start to believe it. Problem is with BS the salesman; he has absolutely no way to pay for it. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #97)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:16 AM

Doitnow (1,103 posts)

201. Some people aren't paying attention when Bernie has explained how he does pay for his plans. I'd

Like to know why there is not a shred of scrutiny given to the cost of wars for OIL. Bernie’s plans would amount to a pittance compared to them. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #201)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:56 AM

democratisphere (17,235 posts)

214. The majority of vehicles still run on fossil fuels and will for the immediate future.

Further, plastic comes from oil and almost everything is plastic. BS has no legitimate way to pay for all of his plans. Talk is cheap. Action is impossible. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #214)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:51 PM

Doitnow (1,103 posts)

247. Most of that will have to change or we won't have a planet. Meantime there are many solutions

That are available (solar and wind, just to mention a couple) that Big Money constantly tries to suppress or kill because that would interfere with their profits. I wonder if they think their children and grandchildren have ways of surviving while others are suffering with no air to breathe and no good water to drink. Too many people with too much money who can’t see beyond the end of their noses or too lazy, miserly or stupid to see what is coming. (Brings to mind Bloomberg’s performance the other night) Well, the young people do and just maybe that’s why they are acting up. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:53 PM

Hoyt (47,797 posts)

33. Unfortunately, every generation needs their George McGovern. But it's bad timing.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:07 AM

denem (11,045 posts)

50. Does every generation need their Walter Mondale too?

A former Vice President, foisted on the electorate by Dem power blocks, who was as exciting and inspiring as a dead towel. Explanation: I am sick of people eviscerating MCGovern, who was a WWII hero, who served the Democratic Party faithfully from 1956 to 1980. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to denem (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:10 AM

Hoyt (47,797 posts)

57. Agree. He still lost big time, and I still support him.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:21 AM

denem (11,045 posts)

69. It was not McGovern's fault that Nixon ratfucked Muskie.

If Sanders loses the GE in a blow out, he, and his cabal of ratfuckers will own it 100%. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to denem (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:17 AM

BlueTsunami2018 (1,500 posts)

64. The election results eviscerated McGovern.

I don’t think anyone has ever ripped him as a person or his service to the country or party. Good guy, got utterly destroyed in the election. That’s what happened, that’s what will happen again if we keep going the way we’re going. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to BlueTsunami2018 (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:21 AM

TwilightZone (20,384 posts)

70. One of my favorite McGovern stories involved John Kerry.

He said that Kerry called him after he lost and asked how long it would take before he got over it and could move on. I don't remember the exact quote, but McGovern told him that he'd let him know when it happened. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:29 AM

denem (11,045 posts)

79. Failure is an orphan.

I can't imagine how much it hurt and distressed both men having Nixon and W re-elected. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to BlueTsunami2018 (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:26 AM

denem (11,045 posts)

73. And can you appreciate why I might be offended,

having McGovern compared to Sanders? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to denem (Reply #73)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:44 AM

BlueTsunami2018 (1,500 posts)

90. Sure, if he was being compared to him as a person.

It’s terribly insulting to McGovern. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to BlueTsunami2018 (Reply #90)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:47 AM

denem (11,045 posts)

91. Yep.

I can't say more while staying with the DU rules. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:12 AM

peggysue2 (7,641 posts)

128. Bad timing, indeed!

I sometimes feel there are many who do not grasp the urgency of the moment, the true danger we're actually in as a country, a people. But we're all going to find out when the train goes fully off the cliff. And then it will be too damn late. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:56 PM

sheshe2 (70,520 posts)

36. KnR

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:56 PM

fallout87 (819 posts)

37. Im sorry your guy Biden is not doing well

But theres no need to disparage Bernie supporters because he is doing well. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:02 AM

NanceGreggs (26,124 posts)

44. Bernie doing well or not doing well ...

... in the primaries has little to do with how he'll fare in the GE. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:55 AM

fallout87 (819 posts)

198. And we aren't at the GE

So all of those claiming Bernie cant win are merely guessing If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:37 PM

nini (16,418 posts)

257. you just proved her point

LOL If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 11:57 PM

PatSeg (36,679 posts)

38. Thank you for a clear assessment

Good point about Bernie supporters accusing people of being "Bernie haters", but we don't see that happen with other candidates. Actually, I've always liked Bernie, but I never liked him as a presidential candidate. During this primary however, I've grown to dislike him and it has nothing to do with anything other people have said. It is because of the way he, his staff, and some of his supporters have behaved. Someone told me that she had a long time friend who is a Bernie supporter. If any of her Democratic friends refuse to support him, she called them DINOs and Trump supporters. On the other hand, I have encountered a lot of people here at DU who supported Bernie in 2016, but aren't this time for various reasons including temperament and uncertain electability in a general election. I don't understand why some of his supporters (not all of course) are coming across as so fanatical, but it is very unsettling. I really don't see this with any of the other candidates. Is extremism throughout our society going to be the new norm? Its starting to feel like a virus. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden