What I keep hearing about Bernie....

[garybeck]

"I like Bernie but I don't think he can beat trump."

"I agree with his ideas but I don't think the country is ready for it."

"He speaks the truth but I don't like what his followers and some of his campaign staff are doing."


is there a pattern here or what?

I think for most people (excluding trump supporters and asshole republicans) the idea of Bernie being president is not a problem. They just think he can't beat trump or OTHER people wouldn't vote for him.

Remember how all the experts said Trump could never beat Hillary? it was a done deal.
now they are all saying Bernie can't beat trump.

they were wrong before and they could be wrong again.

What MOST, if not NEARLY ALL people here have said from day ONE is that they will support WHOEVER the nominee is and fight to get Trump out of office.

So if Bernie gets the nomination, let's stay on course. shall we?

I would submit to you that most of us agree wholeheartedly with bernie's IDEAS. we are just concerned that he can't win, or that the country isn't ready for it.

what are Bernie's ideas?

-- stop wasting so much money on the military
-- a national health care system
-- income equality
-- higher taxes on the rich
-- protection of social security
-- making combating climate change a priority
-- getting money out of politics
-- getting rid of trump

now is there anything on that list you don't like?

I suggest we continue to support the candidate we like the most, and if/when Bernie gets the nomination we remember what we said months ago, that we would vote for whoever the candidate is and we remember that we actually do agree with his ideas.

in full disclosure, I am a Vermonter who has met Bernie many times and voted for him in the 2016 primaries. However, today I share many of the same concerns I have outlined above, and am leaning towards voting for Warren in the primaries. but if Bernie gets the nomination I'm going to fight like hell for him because he would be our only hope to get rid of trump, AND i agree with his IDEAS pretty much 100%.

[Moderateguy]

1. So if Bernie gets the nomination let's stay on course...

We will all sing Kumbaya when he’s the nominee but until that happens I’ll keep raising my concerns

[Bluepinky]

2. Great post! Don't forget another Bernie idea:

keep corporate money out of politics and campaigns.

[garybeck]

4. thanks. i added it.

i'm sure there's more i forgot.

I really think, if we forget about electability and other stuff mentioned, and just consider what Bernie would do if he were president, it will actually be pretty easy for us to get behind him.

[HarlanPepper]

17. How will that be accomplished?

I’d be interested in hearing some specifics.

[Bluepinky]

22. Well, don't accept donations from corporations in a political campaign.

Bernie doesn’t.

[HarlanPepper]

28. And future opponents?

Or is Bernie willing to unilaterally disarm?

Again, lofty talk. No details.

[Laelth]

32. The voters don't seem to care how all that will be accomplished.

It appears that they're just happy to know that Bernie thinks they deserve those things and that, win or lose, he will fight for them.

Seriously, if you're worried about Bernie being our nominee (and you should be), don't read this article: https://news.yahoo.com/latinos-sanderss-secret-weapon-in-nevada-could-make-him-unstoppable-on-super-tuesday-015922411.html

-Laelth

[denem]

3. If you want to know what the 'doom and gloom' around here is about

it is about a trump second term. That's what we see is the almost almost certain outcome of nominating Sanders will be. In my case I have no any deep animosity towards Bernie, let alone his policies - no its about the train wreck that will be the General Election. At this moment the locomotive is accelerating towards cliff's edge, with the front carriages cheering it on.

We have had endless debates about how 'electable' Bernie Sanders is. Nothing I have read has changed my mind. It's not worth trying.

If you want to know what I am feeling at the moment, remember how SC felt in 2016. Remember all the weakness you saw in Hillary. That's were I am - and more convinced than ever that Bernie will not lead the party to a narrow loss, but a GOP blow out which will cost Democrats the House, and America the Republic.

[MisterFred]

6. Interesting you brought up 2016.

A lot of people supported Clinton because they thought she'd be a stronger candidate against Trump than Bernie. I doubted that then. In hindsight, I'm sure of it.

One of Trump's biggest edges is that he's seen as an outsider - a wild card guaranteed to shake up the system. Bernie has that same edge, with the added bonus of being reliable in the way he will shake up the system. That takes away a huge strength Trump has.

[denem]

7. We can't talk about 2016 under the DU rules.

I was only asking that you remember what SC felt like, That is what the majority of DU'ers are feeling today.

[MisterFred]

12. Thank you for telling me about the rules.

I haven't been on DU since the primaries of 2016, when it became clear that Sanders supporters weren't wanted that year. So I was ignorant.

[wnylib]

10. I supported Hillsry because she was more

Last edited Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:19 AM - Edit history (1)

qualified and experienced for the job than Sanders.

I remember thinking that Sanders had some good progressive ideas, but would not be able to govern by them without Congressional support, which he was not going to get with his belligerent, insulting manner.

Hillary did do better than Sanders would have. She got the majority of the popular vote. Sanders would not have done that and I do not believe he would have got all the electoral votes that Hillary missed. Some, maybe, but not all.

[elder phd]

18. with all due respect

but what are you basing your conclusion on, exactly?

i mean, from what you've written here, all i can gather is a vague fear. where does that come from?

to be more explicit, on what do you base this fear that bernie would lose the general? do you have data? have all the voters spoken directly to you? are you clairvoyant?

i mean no offense, but please try to approach this rationally. there is not a single post in all those here trashing bernie that i have read that offers any substantive or reasoned basis for the vitriol. it's all emotional, and that emotion appears to be mostly fear.

fear, and some kind of perverse attachment to remaining petrified. dear denem, "it's not worth trying"??? really??? because you fear trump will beat bernie? again, what is the basis for this conclusion? can you articulate, even for yourself, rational reasons? concrete data? or is this just a hunch?

because your person is not winning? fwiw, liz is also my first choice. i take seriously the importance of remaining united in order to beat trump, and voting blue no matter who. fwiw, i don't see a hair's breadth of difference between bernie's and liz's policies and plans, and i suspect they'll serve in each other's admin if the other one wins. moreover, none of their policies will be enacted as law exactly as they envision them anyway; go back and watch that silly "i'm just a bill" piece that exposes just how rearranged and chopped up they get before they're signed anyway.

liz and bernie's personalities are different, but so what? i don't get how folks see him as belligerent; every time i've seen him he's good-humored and pretty self-effacing. or kinda shy and maybe a bit awkward, like he doesn't enjoy wasting time that could be better spent getting something done. which is why, in fact, he does not buy into the dem caucus that demands each and every member sit for hours each week in a cubicle making calls to beg for MONEY from donors; he prefers to spend that time doing the work. and actually, he doesn't like talking about himself, but more about his policies and vision. which have remained consistent for the 30 years i've been following his career.

sorry, i just realized this feels like i'm trying to talk you off a ledge of your own making. you're entitled to your opinion that bernie will destroy the world, but you have no facts to support that. perhaps if you spend some time re-examining the facts of the matter, you might actually be able to change your mind. but then, if you feel "it's not worth trying," then i guess that means you've given up on not just the dem party but the process it depends on.

and that would be a damn shame, cuz hey, i'm with you on the fear of trump, kiddo.
but sure hope you can snap out of this funk and get on board.
cuz WE NEED ALL HANDS ON DECK!!

[msongs]

5. #1 BS is a huge proponent of the trillion $$ F35 cuz its based/built in VT. big MIC lover all the wa

[dalton99a]

25. Bernie LOVES that $1.5 trillion military boondoggle

But he has an antiwar record!

[mr_lebowski]

8. The really fun day around DU will be when he picks Tulsi as his running mate (nt)

[denem]

11. Oh yeah.

I'll be having so much fun with Stolichnaya, I won't remember it.

[SunSeeker]

15. LOL

Thanks for the laugh. Otherwise, I'd be crying.

[denem]

16. When I am close to despair,

I remember the patriots - they did not give up, I remember the abolitionists - they did not give up, I remember the suffragettes - they did not give up, I remember the Civil Rights activists - they did not give up and I salute the activists for Marriage Equality - they did not give up.

Compared to those who lost their liberty, their livelyhoods, and those who lost their lives, my dharma is but a drop in the bucket.

[elder phd]

20. just for you, denem

saw this and thought you might could use to read this; inspiring:

Link to tweet

[LostinRed]

9. I can't say what I want about bernie because of

Du rules. He won’t win against Trump his policies are a pipe dream. He should never have been allowed to run as a dem.

[question everything]

13. And, of course, you are quite sure that Congress, now solidly R will go along

This would be funny if not pathetic

[elder phd]

19. correction

congress is most certainly NOT solidly R.

the dems hold an extremely strong majority of the house.

and republicans will have a very hard time maintaining their thin control of the senate.

[question everything]

23. It will, if we have a socialist at the top of the ticket

[John Fante]

31. Your predictions are irrelevant. Congress is not solidly Republican RIGHT NOW.

[Squinch]

27. Don't you have any sympathy for the nameless post offices?

[erlewyne]

14. What a great thread with great responses!

This is what DU is all about! I read the responses and am impressed.

[NNadir]

21. You simply failed to list the features that I don't like.

Contempt for gun laws.

An idiotic unworkable approach to climate change.

An inflexible mind.

Hatred of the Democratic Party.

An inability to work with people.

Trumpian self-aggrandizement.

I'm personally sick and tired of selective attention. His "ideas" on climate change show a complete and total contempt for science.

Vermont was once the only state in the Union that did not rely on dangerous fossil fuels for electricity. Sanders worked to change that.

Anyone who thinks that Bernie Sanders knows shit from shinola about climate change is on the same level as someone who thinks Trump is making America Great Again.

[Happy Hoosier]

24. Ah yes, the usual "and then the revolution happens"

Top accomplish any of these things, Bernie will need a large coalition. He'll have to convince people to support him that he has insulted for decades. And he doesn't have the political skills to do that. IMHO, he's selling snake oil, and he doesn't even have a snake.

Good Luck.

[Moderateguy]

26. He's selling snake oil and doesn't even have a snake

[Fiendish Thingy]

29. The biggest risk is that people's fears will create a self-fulfilling prophecy

In 2008, there were many here on DU who argued that America would never elect a Black man President.

If Sanders is the nominee, folks will have to muster the courage to step of the cliff and believe that Sanders can win, will win.

The more people who have the courage to believe, the more the fearful will find the courage to believe as well.

[TreasonousBastard]

30. Well, I keep hearing the electibility silliness, too, but I am convinced that...

the only voter whose vote I can predict is my own. I have no interest in playing Prisoner's Dilemma with the future of the country.

More to the point, however, is that Bernie should know, after over 30 unproductive years in Congress, is that promising unicorns and daffodils is meaningless unless you've got the stones to get things passed. So far, Warren's record of getting things done for "the people" before she was elected far outshines what Bernie has done while warming his seat.

Warren may not be LBJ with the pressure tactics, but she's shown she's got what it takes to get things one.

Oh, yeah, Amy's got some record in the Senate, too. Another proven force.

[LakeArenal]

33. If it helps....

Edit to remove Clint endorsement. That’s Bloomberg
I don’t like Bernie, I don’t like his hires, I don’t like his tactics, I think every Democrat likes all those ideas too.
I don’t think he’s really a Democrat at heart, I don’t like what he’s said about Obama.
Bias lets me say, not thrilled about what he says about the other candidates.
I don’t like promises like releasing medical records that are later dismissed.
I don’t like the idea that Russians used social media to promote his candidacy before and I fear it's happening again.

Hope that helps your dilemma.