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Undecided 41%
Elizabeth Warren20%
Joe Biden16%
Bernie Sanders13%
Pete Buttigieg5%

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:10 PM

 

No, radical policies won't drive election-winning turnout

The concept of a magical voter revolution is debunked


Sanders’s explanation of why this is not a problem is simple, and he has repeated it endlessly. When a member of the Los Angeles Times editorial board asked him whether “a candidate as far to the left as you” would “alienate swing voters and moderates and independents,” the senator replied: “The only way that you beat Trump is by having an unprecedented campaign, an unprecedentedly large voter turnout.” Faiz Shakir, Sanders’s campaign manager, adds: “Bernie Sanders has very unique appeal amongst [the younger] generation and can inspire, I think, a bunch of them to vote in percentages that they have never voted before.”

This has remarkably little empirical support. Take the 2018 midterm elections, in which the Democrats took back the House (a net 40-seat gain), carried the House popular vote by almost nine points and flipped seven Republican-held governorships. Turnout in that election was outstanding, topping 49 percent — the highest midterm turnout since 1914 and up 13 points over the previous midterm, in 2014 — and the demographic composition of the electorate came remarkably close to that of a presidential election year. (Typically, midterm voters tend to be much older and much whiter than those in presidential elections.) This was due both to fewer presidential “drop-off” voters (people who voted in 2016 but not 2018) and to more midterm “surge” voters (those who voted in 2018 but not 2016)…..

This analysis shreds an implicit assumption of Sanders and other members of the turnout-will-solve-everything crowd: that if they polarize the election by highlighting progressive issues, “their” nonvoters will show up at the polls, but none of the nonvoters from the other side will. That view is also contradicted by many political science studies. Stanford political scientists Andrew Hall and Daniel Thompson, for example, studied House races between 2006 and 2014 and found that highly ideological candidates who beat moderates for a party nomination indeed increased turnout in their own party in the general election — but they increased the opposition turnout even more. (The difference was between three and eight percentage points.) Apparently, their extreme political stances did more to turn out the other side to vote against them than to turn out their own side to vote for them.

The turnout equation does not necessarily return positive results for a candidate like Sanders. The reverse is more likely. It is truly magical thinking to believe that, in a highly polarized situation, only your side gets to increase turnout. And if the other side turns out in droves, you might not like the results — a warning Democrats would be wise to heed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply No, radical policies won't drive election-winning turnout (Original post)
Gothmog Feb 14 OP
left-of-center2012 Feb 14 #1
Gravitycollapse Feb 14 #2
TwilightZone Feb 14 #9
gollygee Feb 14 #11
Gothmog Feb 15 #13
UniteFightBack Feb 15 #20
John Fante Feb 15 #27
Callado119 Feb 15 #21
Thomas Hurt Feb 15 #29
uponit7771 Feb 17 #42
George II Feb 14 #3
Gravitycollapse Feb 14 #4
George II Feb 14 #6
Gravitycollapse Feb 14 #8
empedocles Feb 14 #5
thesquanderer Feb 14 #7
Eko Feb 14 #12
Gothmog Feb 15 #14
thesquanderer Feb 15 #17
Gothmog Feb 15 #23
thesquanderer Feb 15 #24
Gothmog Feb 15 #25
thesquanderer Feb 15 #26
Gothmog Feb 16 #30
thesquanderer Feb 16 #32
Gothmog Feb 16 #33
thesquanderer Feb 16 #37
Gothmog Feb 17 #40
thesquanderer Sunday #45
Gothmog Feb 18 #43
Gothmog Feb 16 #36
thesquanderer Feb 16 #39
Cha Feb 14 #10
Gothmog Feb 15 #15
Awsi Dooger Feb 15 #16
Fresh_Start Feb 15 #18
Fresh_Start Feb 15 #19
UniteFightBack Feb 15 #22
John Fante Feb 15 #28
Gothmog Feb 16 #31
dalton99a Feb 16 #34
DanTex Feb 16 #35
Awsi Dooger Feb 16 #38
Gothmog Feb 17 #41
Gothmog Feb 19 #44

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:14 PM

1. But, we were told there'd be a revolution

 

Is America ready for a socialist revolution?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:20 PM

2. Again, Sanders is not far left. He is center left.

 

In pretty much any part of the world, he would he be considered a left leaning moderate. It’s amazing how far to the right political discourse has moved in the US.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:44 PM

9. Part of that is his fault.

 

He tagged himself with an inaccurate label decades ago (socialist, then later, democratic socialist) that he's now stuck with, and that label is often the basis for the "far left" moniker. Because he's stuck with it, he's spent a lot of time trying to convince people that regulated capitalism is socialism. It's not.

The fact that he's an ideologue also doesn't help dispel the "far left" label.

That being said, on a relative US scale of his peers at the national or Congressional level, he is left of most. It's all relative, of course.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:02 PM

11. He isn't running in any other part of the world

 

He's running here where he's far left.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 12:58 AM

13. Could you explain how sanders magical voter revolution works in the real world?

 

I have never taken sanders seriously due to a complete lack of legislative accomplishments of sanders and the fact that I do not understand sanders voter revolution The NYT also did not understand how sanders voter revolution works


Like the NYT, I have questions about this voter revolution concept. I have asked sanders supporters to explain this concept to me and so far no one seems to know how this voter revolution will work in the real world https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=430371

Gothmog (78,308 posts)
64. Exactly how does sanders voter revolution work in the real world?

It is my understanding that even sanders has acknowledged that he cannot adopt his platform unless he holds rallies and this voter revolution occurs. Is this correct? How does this voter revolution work in the real world? Again as I understand this concept, so many new voters will rise up and force the GOP to be reasonable. Is this correct? How many new voters does it take to accomplish this goal and where are these voters? How will these new voters force the GOP to be reasonable when so many GOP officeholders are in gerrymandered districts? Will these new voters move to these districts in time to vote for sanders’ platform? If these new voters are real, then why are theses new voters not showing up in the polls? New voters in such large numbers so as to cause the GOP to be reasonable should show up in polling. Are these new voters waiting for something? If these new voters really exist in the real world, why has sanders not used these new voters to get some meaningful legislation passed?

I look forward to answers to these questions

sanders interview with the NYT may have gone better if he had explained how this revolution would work in the real world. I am still curious
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:32 PM

20. Anyone who calls himself a Socialist is going to get labeled far left. It's not amazing how far

 

right whatever BLAH BLAH BLAH..it's called being practical and realistic about what country you are actually living in.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 08:03 PM

27. No, it is amazing. This country is a joke.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:33 PM

21. If you're explaining you're losing..

 

He’s on tape calling himself a socialist, he’s a socialist, and republicans will make sure voters know that. Do we really want to be having a debate about the differences between socialism and democratic socialism come this summer? What a gift to trump..
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Callado119 (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 08:18 PM

29. +1 that allows that fascist pig to control the narrative.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 17, 2020, 11:59 PM

42. Democratic socialist who praises communist Russia is ... ***NOT*** ... moderate in the USA

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:21 PM

3. The Iowa grass roots movement netted 1.8 voters per volunteer.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:26 PM

4. And how does that compare to everyone else?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:30 PM

6. Don't know, no other candidate boasts of their massive ground game.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:33 PM

8. Maybe because it's worse? I think the stat is pretty meaningless

 

But if you’re going to bring it up, it would be nice to see how he compares.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:26 PM

5. Numbers

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:32 PM

7. It's an interesting perspective, that a Sanders candidacy could increase turnout for Trump...

 

...but I don't think so. Yes, I understand his point that, in many races, a Dem candidate who was perceived as highly ideological increased turnout for the opposition even more than what they increased for their side... but I think you have to assume that the opposition was a somewhat normal, maybe even mainstream candidate. If the opposition is Donald Trump? No, I don't think a Sanders nomination will bring out more Trump voters than a Biden or Bloomberg candidacy would. Or to look at this from another angle, Trump voters generally don't hate Sanders the way they hated Hillary, which is an argument for Trump perhaps seeing weaker turnout with Sanders as an opponent than he had when Hillary was his opponent.

I think you have to look at the particular candidates in the contest, rather than just saying progressive Dems tend to increase Republican turnout, even if the latter does often happen.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:03 PM

12. I disagree.

 

Everyone I know that is a republican is freaking out that Sanders is winning, even people who did not vote for Trump last time are very worried about Sanders and are planning to vote for Dump now. Of course that is only about 15 people but it is what I am seeing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:02 AM

14. Look at 1972

 

sanders would turn out trump's base



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 08:23 AM

17. In 1972, Nixon's approval rating was 50-62% and he was not widely seen as...

 

...incompetent, irrational, a danger to international relations and to the U.S. Constitution, barely literate, or suffering from a psychiatric mental condition.

Simply, if you didn't like McGovern, Nixon seemed to many like an acceptable (even somewhat liberal by today's standards) alternative, even if far from ideal. I think we have a much larger group today who will NEVER vote for this particular Republican candidate no matter WHO we put up.

I would agree that putting up Sanders would be very risky if the Republicans were offering a sane, mainstream, somewhat moderate alternative like Romney or Kasich. I don't think candidate Trump presents nearly as much of a threat to a Sanders win as they would.

That's why this is nothing like 1972. It's also why we might have our VERY BEST CHANCE to get a true progressive into the White House, because we may never again have the opportunity to run against such a weak, disliked, incompetent opponent. If we're going to take our shot, this is the time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 07:19 PM

23. Nixon did not have as much great oppo on McGovern as trump has on a weak candidate like sanders

 

I am very worried about down ballot races. sanders is a very weak candidate and would be easy for trump to destroy. In addition to the well written 101 page memorandum with oppo on sanders with a 1000 pages of backup from the Clinton campaign trump has his own oppo file on sanders that would destroy such a weak and divisive candidate like sanders.



trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

They ignored the fact that Sanders had not yet faced a real campaign against him. Clinton was in the delicate position of dealing with a large portion of voters who treated Sanders more like the Messiah than just another candidate. She was playing the long game—attacking Sanders strongly enough to win, but gently enough to avoid alienating his supporters. Given her overwhelming support from communities of color—for example, about 70 percent of African-American voters cast their ballot for her—Clinton had a firewall that would be difficult for Sanders to breach....

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

sanders was such a weak primary candidate that the Clinton campaign did not use its oppo but trump would have fun destroying such a weak candidate like sanders

I will vote for the nominee of the party but I fear that the nomination of sanders will lead to a Speaker Kevin McCarthy
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 07:43 PM

24. We've talked before how most of the Clinton oppo won't help Trump...

 

...because people aren't going to say "Sanders was slow to come around on gay marriage, so I'll vote for Trump" -- that is, the issues that Clinton was dealing with largely don't help Trump, either.

But I'm not going to be persuaded by fear of oppo research. The Republicans are going to throw tons of it at whoever our candidate is, even if they have to make it up.

I stand by my assessment that many independents who weren't happy with McGovern saw a sane and somewhat reasonable alternative in Nixon, whereas independents who aren't happy with Sanders are not so likely to see a sane and reasonable alternative in Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 07:48 PM

25. I have seen a ton of videos on twitter that would be easy to turn into attack ads

 

For example this video would guarantee that sanders loses Florida


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 07:54 PM

26. Yes, that's come up before as well, and again my answer is...

 

...I wouldn't count on ANY Dem getting Florida.

Our candidate needs to get the same voters who chose Hillary over Trump, plus more blue collar votes in the rust belt. Anything beyond that is a bonus. Latest poll shows Sanders might take Texas, he polls better than Trump or any other potential Dem nominee. I'll give up Florida for that prize.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:27 PM

30. Sanders would kill down ballot candidates

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:40 PM

32. Again, Florida, which I've already said I don't expect to win...

 

...but based on polling so far, Sanders gives us a shot at picking up the even better prize of Texas.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:50 PM

33. So it is okay to lose Democratic House seats in Florida due to sanders?

 

I do not want to write off Florida. There are a ton of ex-Puerto Rico residents who have moved to Florida who hate trump and we are busy suing to re-enfranchise a ton of voters. If we flip Florida, then trump is doomed.

I also do not want to write off Democratic house seats in Florida with a weak candidate who would kill down ballot candidates
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 01:30 PM

37. Yes, because I think there's a good chance we'd lose them anyway...

 

...though at least a possibility of picking up some in TX could be a nice consolation prize.

And p.s. our strongest candidate in Florida (Biden) is only polling about one point better. Florida will be tough no matter what. I'm not going to choose my candidate based simply on who has a slightly better shot at Florida.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 17, 2020, 11:53 AM

40. We will keep these seats if Biden or Bloomberg is the nominee in the real world

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:50 PM

45. Biden and Bloomberg are not polling so much better than Sanders in Florida...

 

see https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287549123

I get your point about the Cuban population being turned off by Sanders, but that population is overwhelmingly Republican, most are unlikely to vote for WHATEVER Dem we put up.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #37)

Tue Feb 18, 2020, 01:33 AM

43. No candidate in a swing district ran on sanders' platform

 


?s=20
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 01:02 PM

36. sanders appears to have a hard cap of 25% of the Democratic electorate

 

It appears that sanders has a hard ceiling of around 25%



Yet the early returns show that Sanders's loyal army represents a limited slice of the party, accounting for just over a quarter of the vote in each of the first two states. And one of the central premises of his campaign — that it is built to activate legions of new voters and spur record turnout among young people — has not been realized.

Perhaps more troubling for Sanders are the signals that he is having difficulties expanding his appeal beyond his staunchest backers. Half the voters in Tuesday's Democratic primary in New Hampshire said his positions were too liberal, according to exit polls. He has struggled among older voters, who make up a significant part of the Democratic electorate, and in some suburban areas similar to places analysts say could be key in upcoming races. Critics also say hostility from his fervent followers makes some potential supporters feel unwelcome.

In the 2016 primary race, Sanders emerged as the single counterweight to the establishment favorite, Hillary Clinton, but this time the electorate is more fractured, with many who might have backed him four years ago now looking at a range of choices — and Democratic voters of all ideologies putting a premium on a candidate's perceived ability to defeat President Trump.

"If Sanders is counting on expanding the Democratic base to make the case for electability in the fall, that's just not happening so far," said David Wasserman, an analyst with the Cook Political Report. "If anything, the evidence shows the Democratic primary electorate has become more pragmatic than in 2016.".....

Even as some allies have sought to broaden his appeal, Sanders has drawn polarizing supporters who have complicated those efforts. There is podcast host Joe Rogan, who has drawn criticism over his comments about gender, race and sexuality. There is Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.), who booed Clinton at a Sanders event before later regretting her choice. And there is the army of supporters who often go aggressively after Sanders critics online.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 03:56 PM

39. Three things...

 

1) a "hard cap of 25%" is unlikely to stay that way if it were to come down to two people (say, Sanders and Bloomberg)... that cap exists at least in part because of the sheer number of alternatives who can each peel off slightly different chunks of support.

2) Even 25% gets you 100% of the delegates if no one else hits 15%, so it's not necessarily a delegate-weak position

3) I would still expect him to get near total support from Dems if he were the one facing Trump oin November.

Sanders is not my first choice, but I would be completely comfortable with him as our nominee.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 09:33 PM

10. kr!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:04 AM

15. New Hampshire Turnout Wasn't Driven By Bernie's Base

 

Thee was no magical voter revolution https://politicalwire.com/2020/02/13/new-hampshire-turnout-wasnt-driven-by-bernies-base/

February 13, 2020 at 3:02 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 294 Comments
David Wasserman looks at Democratic turnout in New Hampshire towns won by the top Democratic candidates:
Pete Buttigieg: +26.5%
Amy Klobuchar: +25.2%
Bernie Sanders: +12.0%

His takeaway: Most of the increase in turnout was attributable to John Kasich/Marco Rubio types crossing over from 2016 Republican primary, not heightened enthusiasm of the progressive/Bernie Sanders base.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 04:18 AM

16. It is beyond scary that anyone needs to be told this

 

There is an inverse relationship between political knowledge and belief in turnout. Literally every cycle here we are fed the crap that our enthusiasm and turnout machine is worth 2-3 points net above the polls.

Bernie Sanders is not a magic act. He can't turn a dial and have Trump supporters stay home while youth vote as dependably as senior citizens.

It's election night. We have to win preference, in states like Wisconsin where 86% of the electorate is white. And our nominee is an old socialist.

Good plan

Sanders supporters supply comedy material. I have to give them that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)


Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:14 PM

19. highly ideological candidates increase opposition turnout 3-8% more than their parties turnout

 

kiss the house and senate goodbye
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:37 PM

22. But here is the difference...The non Sanders supporters are not Nobody but Bernies but I feel at

 

least half of the Sanders people would vote for no one else.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 08:10 PM

28. Sigh

 

Bernie is far from my preferred candidate, but he isn't losing any states that Hillary won in 2016. Trump's only hope is another electoral college squeaker, it doesn't matter who the nominee is.

Comparing Trump/Sanders to Nixon/McGovern is ridiculous. Tricky Dick had great approval ratings in 1972. No one was beating him that year. A moderate Democrat would have got trounced too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:33 PM

31. Sanders would kill down ballot candidates

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:52 PM

34. +1. Republicans will hang "socialism" around the neck of every Democrat.

 

Easy TV ads.

It will be an electoral disaster

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:53 PM

35. Ruy Teixeira from Center for American Progress.

 

Possibly the most anti-Bernie-Sanders think tank in existence, led by Neera Tanden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 02:47 PM

38. Ruy Teixeira vs. Rachel Bitecofe is a landslide mismatch

 

It is hilarious that anyone could actually believe that swing voters don't exist and that turnout is more significant.

The reason fortunes change so wildly from cycle to cycle is that those independent swing voters sour on the party in power during the first two years, then return to them amidst benefit of a doubt during the incumbency cycle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Mon Feb 17, 2020, 09:36 PM

41. There will be no magical voter revolution

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2020, 07:46 PM

44. Whee is sanders' voter revolution??

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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