OUCH.

[sheshe2]

Debate ended. Sanders held out his hand to shake Warrens.

She did not extend her hand.

That says a lot to the stories circulating.

Link to tweet

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287424055#top

Thanks highplanesdem

[cry baby]

1. Saw that, too. nt

[sheshe2]

4. Thanks!

Good to know I did not see that wrong.

That is one telling gesture.

[cry baby]

11. CNN showed it just now and they're talking about it.

Elizabeth was raising her eyebrows and looking very annoyed.

[Green Line]

29. She always looks annoyed

I remember her rolling her eyes at Joe in one of the earlier debates.

[trueblue2007]

79. NINA TURNER OR JEFF WEAVER, is that you?

[Pachamama]

84. Elizabeth Warren never looks annoyed

She will show concern and empathy and is very sincere in my opinion.

[BooScout]

87. Ooooh! She should smile more too!

[mcar]

110. And what about her voice? Is it shrill?

[BooScout]

132. And ANGRY...

...don't forget about ANGRY.

[katmondoo]

102. and Bernie always looks angry.

[W_HAMILTON]

21. David Sirota, is that you?

[Cha]

42. lol

[BeyondGeography]

23. Hey Bro!

Nice meeting ya!

[sheshe2]

26. Aaah...

I have a friend? Lol~

[PatrickforO]

2. Warren had a GREAT debate. And, she'll be a great president if

she becomes the nominee.

[peggysue2]

3. Noticed the same thing

The exchange did not look friendly. Bernie screwed up his face and then turned away. I know I read earlier that Warren told her supporters to deescalate the argument. But something rough and ragged happened between the two campaigns. I'm thinking Elizabeth Warren will ultimately benefit from the brouhaha.

[Cha]

43. That's what I said to someone.. she

had asked supporters to scale down the whatever.. and now this.

I speculated that something happened from the BS camp that we don't know about yet.

[getagrip_already]

103. bernie has an anger issue...

When he is challenged, he gets mad. That isn't a good trait in a potus.

[The Mouth]

114. And sometimes it extends to his followers.

Sadly, as I like many of his policy positions, but some of his supporters seem to be 'Bernie or I'm out of here'.

Fuck purity, 'blue no matter who' or get your MAGA hat.

[getagrip_already]

118. I hadn't heard that before.....

'blue no matter who'

I like it. I usually use the term yellow dog, but you have to know what it means.

[Demsrule86]

5. I missed that.

[question everything]

7. Same here but I am sure it will be played again and again

[Demsrule86]

14. I imagine so.

[sheshe2]

36. Vid in the OP now.

Priceless.

[TidySum]

69. Priceless indeed

This reflects very poorly on your candidate.

[ehrnst]

94. Sucks when that happens to one's candidate, doesn't it? But it doesn't mean that they're done.

Quite the contrary, right?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/30/bernie-sanders-campaign-harassment-1077014

https://vtdigger.org/2019/08/01/in-second-labor-complaint-former-sanders-campaign-staffer-alleges-union-acted-improperly/

[marble falls]

113. Nope. Bernie is in damage control.

[sheshe2]

128. Yep.

Pulled out the big guns, Nina and Jane, to defend him.

[marble falls]

130. Anther spring and summer of BBs will so work against him big time.

[gopiscrap]

115. welcome to DU

[sheshe2]

131. Lol

No it does not.

[sheshe2]

35. Just posted the vid in the OP.

Priceless.

[Demsrule86]

37. Thanks Sheshe2 and for what it is worth...she had class tonight and I believe her...I saw her face

when he said it wasn't true.

[sheshe2]

39. I love that woman.

Thanks so much, Demsrule86. Fact is I like your candidate as well.

I want to thank you for your support of mine.

[Demsrule86]

96. Warren deserves better...after this if Biden for some reason doesn't get the nomination, I will

throw my support behind her as my second choice in the primary...totally pissed off at the way she was treated. I always liked Warren and she fought back last night ...good for her.

[a kennedy]

6. I saw that as well...told my husband that's huge.....solidarity should have been

they all shake hands......

[Demsrule86]

97. I don't think she was lying. He had it coming...and probably worse.

He out and out said I didn't say that...no 'misunderstanding perhaps'...no softening ...that is calling a person a liar on stage...dreadful.

[ecstatic]

8. Good. He pretty much called her a liar.

So why reward that with a handshake? F that! I think she might be much more of a fighter than people think, which is a good thing. Being nice hasn't gotten us anywhere these past few years.

[Hortensis]

44. Yes! He ordered his surrogates to specifically call her a liar,

while he "pretty muched" it himself earlier in the day, which would have been bad enough. The press know who pays his attack dogs and gives their orders, though, and of course Warren does.

Fwiw, she's long been known to be a fighter. Remember her Consumer Financial Protection Bureau? And how Wall Street conservatives had a hissy over the possibility that she might be Hillary's VP running mate? Lol, they must have heard that Biden had wanted her for his running mate in 2015 when he was considering running and thought they'd dodged a bullet.

[SunSeeker]

54. And his campaign called her supporters elites!

No bueno.

[Demsrule86]

98. And it turns out it wasn't some unknown campaign person...the campaign put it out and used it

over the weekend for canvassing...and and used other talking points against other candidates as well. Once again the story told by the campaign and Sen. Sanders appears not to be true.

[SunSeeker]

105. Yup. nt

[Demsrule86]

120. Not a good look for him...

[Cha]

61. Hi ecstatic.. did he call

her that on the debate stage?

Mahalo!

[TidySum]

73. She lied

It's bad enough that she's still yet to apologize for lying, but refusing to shake hands, as if she's somehow the victim here, just makes her come across as a very petty and low class individual.

[ehrnst]

89. Got any evidence to back that up?

Other than wishful thinking?



She is the more credible candidate here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=420801

[Demsrule86]

99. She did not lie. And if it comes between believing Sanders or Warren unless you are a Sanders fan...

Warren will win every time.

[yardwork]

107. How do you know who is lying here?

[Eliot Rosewater]

116. i wish it wasnt allowed for posters to come here and FUCKING LIE about our AWESOME

candidates like Warren...I really wish that.

[Cha]

136. So sez a BS supporter.. NO EW did NOT "lie"

[TomCADem]

9. Bernie Has His Campaign Making Character Attacks Targeting Warren...

...complete with a script. Bernie should be happy Warren took the high road, but Bernie has a history of going scorched earth, no holds barred trying to render all primary opponents unelectable.

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/bernie-sanders-takes-the-gloves-off-goes-after-biden-hes-got-a-lot-of-baggage-record-is-so-weak/

Bernie Sanders Takes the Gloves Off, Goes After Biden: He’s Got ‘A Lot of Baggage,’ Record is ‘So Weak’

Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) has, in recent weeks, been looking up only at former Vice President Joe Biden in most national presidential polls. So with just one month left before the first votes are cast, the Vermont senator has apparently decided it’s time to take the gloves off.

In an interview with the Washington Post, Sanders took some pointed shots at the former vice president — calling his record “so weak” and saying that he carries “baggage” into the race.

“It’s just a lot of baggage that Joe takes into a campaign, which isn’t going to create energy and excitement,” Sanders said. “He brings into this campaign a record which is so weak that it just cannot create the kind of excitement and energy that is going to be needed to defeat Donald Trump.”

Sanders went on to argue that Trump will go after Biden on the economy. “It doesn’t take much imagination to understand that Trump will be saying, ‘You see this guy? He voted for NAFTA,’” he said.

[highplainsdem]

10. Here's a tweet with video:

Link to tweet

[George II]

20. WOW! That was an amazing interchange. She said something to him, he grimaced....

...and then walked away.

That must have been humiliating to him. And Steyer stood there with a look like "WTF?"

This is all unraveling for him. Other than his diehard fans, he's going to lose a lot of voters.

[Eliot Rosewater]

117. She knows what she is dealing with. Most dont, if they did they might...

I have a question, if you want UHC and you have one candidate with a proven track record of accomplishing little and hardly ever getting along with others, or one with a relatively good list of achievements in a short period of time KNOWN for getting along with others

which do you choose?

Do people understand they have to get CONS to go along with things like UHC and college tuition?

I have a feeling these things are NEVER thought about.

[sheshe2]

28. Posted it in my OP with credit. nt

[highplainsdem]

34. Thanks! Mediaite article with better video:

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/watch-warren-refuses-to-shake-bernies-hand-after-debate-bernie-throws-up-hands-after-they-speak/

[Midnight Writer]

30. Yeah, she jumped his ass. No doubt about it. Now let's all get together and beat Trump.

[nolawarlock]

41. And of course he points at her.

[Cha]

45. So EW shook Biden's hand!

Thank you for this, hpd!

[highplainsdem]

57. You're welcome, Cha! Wanna hear something funny? There are paranoid

Sanders supporters on Twitter suggesting Warren must have "cut a deal" with Biden because of that handshake, and because she didn't attack Biden more.

[Cha]

60. Of course.. there's always plenty of CTs to go around

other than she's pissed at BS for denying he said that..

Link to tweet

Did he basically call her a liar on the debate stage?

Mahalo!

[Ninga]

12. I recorded the debate and went back and took

another. She walked over to him he was very animated she did not shake his hand her body language was closed and she appeared to be talking softly. He got more animated and dismissed her with a heck with you gesture. I’m sure a vid of that moment will be captured

[sheshe2]

18. Thank you!!!!!

Waiting for the video to capture it for posterity.

[MustLoveBeagles]

24. Wow I missed that

I'll have to look for that clip tomorrow.

[Cha]

46. Any lip readers!?

Thank you for that, Ninga

[Happy Hoosier]

13. He called her a liar....

That's hard to come back from.

[lapfog_1]

15. My mother called me a liar

and we didn't speak for a number of years.

I hold a grudge.

[sheshe2]

17. Yep.

He called her a liar.

Don't fuck with my Senator!

[TidySum]

71. What else does one call a person

Who spreads lies in order to smear them?

[ehrnst]

90. Speechwriters?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287403646

Campaign advisors?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128794008

[BeyondGeography]

16. She also side-eyed him a few times during the debate

I think she’s done with him.

[Cha]

47. Hopefully!

[Demsrule86]

100. I have seen that look on my Mom's face...white lipped anger...boy we were scared to death when

Mom looked at us like that. And the thing is after seeing her face when he said he never said it, I know in my bones,he is lying and she is not...as a woman I am offended...Warren is now my second choice should Biden falter in the primary. She reminded me of Nancy Pelosi last night.

[BeyondGeography]

101. Well said...That expression told me everything I needed to know as well

As you well know I spend a lot of time on Warren and I had never seen that particular look before...it was raw.

[Demsrule86]

119. She handled herself well and showed guts...she is now my number two in the primaries.

And I repeat myself...sorry...

[Hoyt]

22. I still don't get issue. While I hope he's wrong, it's a valid

opinion that a woman has the odds stacked against them. Sadly, 225+ years of presidential elections prove that.

We need to put this misunderstanding behind us and move on.

[MustLoveBeagles]

25. I think the issue, for me at least, was that he flat out denied saying it

If he'd owned the comment and then explained the context maybe people wouldn't have been so upset. That's my take of it. I could be wrong.

[Hoyt]

31. Honestly, I doubt I'd remember saying voters suck and make it tough

for a woman. It’s true, unfortunately.

Now if he said, “women shouldn’t run for office,” yeah kick his rear. But I know he didn’t.

It’s a non-issue. And, that is from someone who almost wishes both would implode in primary voting.

[Cha]

48. the "issue" is BS denied he said it.

[TomCADem]

27. Warren Shook Bernie's Hand...

I don't think you should repeatedly shake hands. That would get awkward.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/iowa-democratic-debate-live-updates/ar-BBYXCG8?li=BBnb7Kz

The six candidates have taken the stage. Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders were out first, and they gave each other a warm handshake and shared a few words. Elizabeth Warren was out next, shaking Mr. Biden’s hand and then reaching over to Mr. Sanders, who was looking elsewhere; he noticed her, smiled and joined in a handshake.

[W_HAMILTON]

32. Who do you think is gonna buy that spin?

This happened AFTER the debate, when everyone was shaking hands and heading off stage.

[sheshe2]

50. Watch the video.

It comes at the end of the debate.

[Cha]

56. What was "awkward" is that EW denied shaking hands

with BS when he offered his.. and then she had things to say(lip readers?).. that pissed him off.. and he huffed away..

Check out the vid..

Link to tweet

[ritapria]

33. Last summer Liz was embracing Bernie on Debate Stage

Now she won't shake Bernie's Hands ..The Conversation between her and Bernie took place in 2018 ..Only now she has become offended ? .. Please .... Warren claims the Party needs to nominate a Candidate who can unify the Party - and now she does this ? … She has pissed off tons of Bernie supporters tonight...

[Blaukraut]

40. She's not mad about the '18 convo but that he's essentially calling her a liar n/t

[ehrnst]

88. Well at least she's telling her supporters to rise above this

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-woman-president-deescalation

When will Bernie do the same?

That's what real leaders are made of.

[Demsrule86]

38. Sanders Walked away while she was still speaking...what a rude guy...I am sorry I want someone

who is nice in the White House. I am so sick of Trump and his shit...I want nice. Warren is Nice, Biden is nice...so is Amy and Pete...I want nice.

[Cha]

49. Hi Dems.. did BS

basically call EW a "liar" on the debate stage?

I just got home and haven't seen anything yet.

Thanks!

[Demsrule86]

104. He said he didn't say it period...no softening, nothing. He called her a liar on the debate stage..

You could see how angry she was...when I saw her face, I knew she was telling the truth...there was outrage as well as anger. I thought she handled it well...as for shaking his hand...I wouldn't either. And it had come out that he used the script against her in canvassing in unnamed early states...got to be Iowa and New Hampshire -after he claimed himself that it was some low level campaign person...blah blah.

I don't like Sanders so that may color my opinion (yes people I would vote for him in a general), but I thought he looked really bad the last couple of days and really hurt himself with women. I was offended as a woman over the script and lying thing. And My two Millennial daughters were enraged as was my Gen Z daughter. My son thinks Sanders did real damage last night and with the script to his campaign. He is Millennial also...interesting take from the 'youngins'...also, a commentator on MSNBC said that Sanders only has 8% more of 18-35 % of voters than Biden...to hear some talking about it Biden has none of this vote, and apparently that is just not true. I have not verified this but no one there disagreed.

[sheshe2]

52. Steyer seems to draw him away and try to calm him/BS down.

[Demsrule86]

121. I saw that...didn't look like a friendly conversation...but Steyer who probably heard it wouldn't

say which is probably for the best.

[SunSeeker]

55. +1

[ArtTownsend]

51. What a vicious bad-faith attack on Sanders this has been. I'd be mad too.

[SunSeeker]

74. This all started when Bernie's campaign broke the nonaggression pact by trashing Warren supporters.

His campaign called Warren supporters "rich" and "elite."

That precipitated the leak about him telling Warren that a woman can't win in 2020. The media then asked Warren to confirm if that was true and she did. Then Bernie basically called Warren a liar.

What a vicious bad-faith attack on Warren this has been. Yet Warren kept her cool and did not walk off in a huff.

[TidySum]

76. When did Bernie's campaign ever trash Warren supporters?

And it wasn't a leak. It was a lie. A misrepresentation at best. How else are you supposed to respond to something like that, other than call that person out for lying?

And now Warren is trying to frame herself as the victim here?

Not a good start for her.

[SunSeeker]

83. Sanders' campaign confirmed the authenticity of the Warren-bashing script Politico obtained.

Bernie campaign slams Warren as candidate of the elite

The nonaggression pact between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren is seriously fraying.

Sanders’ campaign has begun stealthily attacking Warren as a candidate of the upper crust who could not expand the Democratic base in a general election, according to talking points his campaign is using to sway voters and obtained by POLITICO.

The script instructs Sanders volunteers to tell voters leaning toward the Massachusetts senator that the “people who support her are highly-educated, more affluent people who are going to show up and vote Democratic no matter what” and that “she's bringing no new bases into the Democratic Party.”

“I like Elizabeth Warren. [optional]” the script begins. “In fact, she’s my second choice. But here’s my concern about her.” It then pivots to the criticisms of Warren.

The Sanders campaign did not challenge the authenticity of the script, but it declined to comment. The Warren campaign also declined to comment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/11/bernie-quietly-goes-negative-on-warren-097594

[ehrnst]

92. Indeed. (nt)

[mercuryblues]

109. After days of denying

that his campaign put out the script, Sanders now admits that, in fact, it came from his campaign, not some rouge supporters.

I wonder if this interaction had anything to do with that.

On another note. After denying, then admitting to the script as an official campaign document, why would anyone believe him in his denials of what he said about a woman not being able to beat trump?

[BeyondGeography]

86. I think you have it exactly right

They definitely took the gloves off first; the Sanders campaign put it in writing with that script as you note below. Warren had the “woman-can’t-beat Trump” anecdote in reserve to be used as needed.

[ehrnst]

93. I haven't heard that she was behind the leak. (nt)

[sheshe2]

122. Thank you, SunSeeker.

[Cha]

53. Wow.. now that's an exchange that's

going to have people speculating for days.. weeks maybe. BS looked pissed after "no hand shake for you".. and of course whatever EW had to say..

She patted Biden's shoulder..

Mahalo, she!

[sheshe2]

123. Thank you, Cha.

[Gothmog]

58. That was interesting to watch

Link to tweet

[Cha]

59. "Steady Steyer Don't Blow This.." You can Do IT!!

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

62. LOL!

[Cha]

64. lol rofl!

[sheshe2]

63. I think Steyer tried to defuse the situation.

He drew BS away. He was escalating. He needed to calm down. He needs to stay calm and focused. He has heath issues and needs to breathe.

[betsuni]

65. The Accidental Therapist.

[Cha]

67. Yeah, imagine if he weren't there.. maybe Tom Steyer

will tell us what was said?

[Tiggeroshii]

66. She put her hands together in a prayerful, gracious manner

[herding cats]

75. M'kay

I don't hang out in here much, but when I do I see why it's not healthy for anyone within 3 posts.

Which oddly seems to be a formula which holds true mathematically the longer I'm in here.

[Tiggeroshii]

80. ?

[herding cats]

81. I disagree with you

For the record, I know social media will make their own versions of "analysis" for this moment tonight. I don't care. I saw it and mine is mine, and is real without some other manufactured to fit an ideology analysis.

[sheshe2]

129. Thank you, herding cats.

[herding cats]

134. Apparently, Warren was fierce!

I saw it with my own eyes and now I've heard the exchange.

Warren wasn't taking any of that 'pretend it away' from Bernie.

Damn, I respect her so much.

[sheshe2]

135. I respect her too, herdingcats.

She was fierce and never flinched or backed down.

[TexasTowelie]

68. How about a fist bump instead?

No point in spreading germs. It's cold and flu season after all.

[BootinUp]

70. Bernie and his fingers crack me up. Nt

[Aussie105]

72. She has a touch of the . . . .

Pelosi 'Don't mess with me!' seriousness about her.

Good on her, wonder what the words exchanged were about?

[trueblue2007]

77. I WOULD NOT SHAKE HIS HAND EITHER !!!

[herding cats]

78. Everything I said here about being too divisive and unelectable is holding true.

Someone should never have ran if they honestly cared about the Democrats winning in 2020.

Pro tip: I'm not speaking of Warren here.

[Tarheel_Dem]

82. Good for Liz!

[Pacifist Patriot]

85. Would love to have been a fly on that podium!

[ehrnst]

95. She should smile more.

[The Valley Below]

106. Sanders has burned every bridge he might have in the Democratic Party.

Who is surprised?

[yardwork]

108. I agree with that assessment.

[SunSeeker]

111. Not me. History may not be repeating itself, but it is certainly rhyming. nt

[Cha]

125. I did not see this coming

exactly this way but looking at all the signs they were right there.. all it needed was for Elizabeth to act on it.. and she did!

[defacto7]

112. The fact is, this incident means absolutely nothing.

It's all in the mind of the viewer. We can read into it anything we want and that is a dangerous thing for the future of our country right now. It becomes fodder for the rw to chip away at the character of dem candidates. That's all.

[Cha]

124. Disagree.. it means a lot.. EW is calling out

BS on live stage.. he didn't like it.. too bad.

[defacto7]

126. I'm no fan of Sanders, I am a fan of Warren,

but it's amazing to me what people see, don't see, want to see and don't want to see in a little video clip. There's nothing substantive or useful. Is anyone watching the last .2 seconds of it? You have to watch closely. It's a mutual breakup but no one wants to see it. Otherwise it seems EW is making some kind of important point. It also seems like Bernie tries to reply. It also shows them moving on. In the end "seems" means nothing in the world of facts. Finding conclusions in this clip only opens up holes that people fill with mind reading opinions.
In any case, I hope Warren cleans his clock in real time. Actually she already is.

[demosincebirth]

127. She's scolding him like one of her students

[Cha]

133. She's calling him out.