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Undecided 45%
Elizabeth Warren20%
Joe Biden15%
Bernie Sanders9%
Pete Buttigieg6%

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:08 PM

 

Sanders just said his MFA ends all premiums. I'm on Medicare. I pay a monthly premium.

Please explain how he ends the paying of monthly premiums by initiating MFA when Medicare recipients currently pay a monthly premium.

In my opinion, he is implying that current Medicare patients donít pay any premiums and donít have any co-pays. Thatís not true.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Reply Sanders just said his MFA ends all premiums. I'm on Medicare. I pay a monthly premium. (Original post)
stopbush Tuesday OP
underthematrix Tuesday #1
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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:10 PM

1. I pay $233 a month which is 1/3 of my income

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:30 PM

30. True

 

I pay 450 a month for B,C,D.....
All those on the Medicare for all bandwagon havenít a clue about the reality of it. And that doesnít include all the deductibles.....
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:21 AM

76. You won't be paying those on Medicare for All.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #76)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:21 AM

113. Why not? Will Medicare for All magically change Medicare?

 

My mother is on Medicare and I manage her finances. She pays $200 a month for a Medicare managed care plan subsidized by a former employer. Without the subsidy she would pay a lot more.

Mom's Medicare coverage doesn't pay for her dental care or vision care. It doesn't cover eyeglasses, tests, root canals, or other treatments.

Mom's medication costs her about $250 each month out of pocket. She's not on many medications, fortunately, but some of them aren't covered by her Medicare plan.

There are also significant co-pays for treatments, especially hospitalizations.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to yardwork (Reply #113)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:28 AM

114. Medicare for all has no copays and no deductibles. You do not need a supplemental policy. There

 

will be a maximum out of pocket $200 annual for medications. She will not need a supplemental policy or a drug plan. Lower incomes will have no tax for this and everyone else will pay 6.5% tax to provide this. For example, an income of 30,000 per year would pay $162.50 in taxes per month for Medicare for All. That's it. Medicare for All covers vision and dental. I am sure there are some limitations on how many pair of glasses you can get, and probaly only covers basic dental. But it's better than nothing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #114)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:48 PM

129. How is this being paid for?

 

I believe one day we will get here but we have to change our values. Hell we can't even vote in OUR SHARED interest,i.e. healthcare, education, voting rights, immigration reform, etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #129)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:17 PM

133. AgaIn.

 


https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #133)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:49 PM

170. Just a guess, but the 55 mentions of TAX will not endear most readers of the plan. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #133)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:09 AM

176. That doesn't begin to explain how they could fund a completely different program

 

than what we now have with Medicare.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #129)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:56 PM

154. Free Money!!!

 

Everybody gets some.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #154)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:45 PM

169. So sick of the 'we can't afford it' mantra

 

Bullshit. There's wasn't so much as a peep from the RW when they conducted their free money giveaway to the tune of a $3 TRILLION tax cut. And that's just the latest one. There were many similar giveaways in past years and of course the omnipresent behemoth defense budget and unlimited money for unending wars.

WHY do we buy into their bullshit propaganda??
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Doremus (Reply #169)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:18 AM

186. and don't forget Space Force and on and on.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Doremus (Reply #169)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:34 AM

187. You do reailize we are talking about $30 trillion here

 

I don't give a shit what the RW says. I want to know how M4A will be paid for. This is a program that has to be in place forever. There MUST be guaranteed funding for it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to dansolo (Reply #187)

Fri Jan 17, 2020, 04:06 PM

205. And yet every other developed country in the world has managed to do it.

 

It's a pity that Americans are so fucking gullible.

WHEN will we ever stop eating RW shit????
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #114)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:57 PM

131. Better than nothing?

 

I have a great health care plan that supplements my Medicare. And my negogiated supplemental plan (a Medicare Advantage plan) costs me nothing. If I wasn't enrolled in the Medicare Advantage and used my Traditional I would be paying monthly premiums for that part.

When I was bombarded with Medicare Advantage plans that were offering no monthly premiums I investigated. It turned out that the co-pays and out-of-pockets were much higher than my plan.

BTW, Medicare only pays for 80% of covered coverage.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #131)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:14 PM

132. That's why MFA is better than medicare. And Better than nothign was referring to dental and vision.

 

I'm glad you have a great healthcare plan. Now wouldn't if be nice if the rest of the country could too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #132)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:35 PM

136. MFA isn't better than anything unless it gets approved by Congress.

 

Bernie doesn't have much of a track record in getting bills approved by Congress, despite his decades as a senator.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to yardwork (Reply #136)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:36 PM

137. Sorry, MFA would be better than anyhing else out there. Is that better.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #137)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:38 PM

141. Medicare for All doesn't exist. It won't exist unless it gets approved by Congress.

 

You can't say it's better than anything, because it doesn't exist.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to yardwork (Reply #141)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:26 PM

200. Shssshhhh

 

You'll scare away the unicorns.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Andrew Yang

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #200)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:27 PM

201. Lol!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #114)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:07 AM

175. Dream on. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to yardwork (Reply #113)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:06 PM

120. Yep. This sounds about right. When we had Obamacare we got a subsidy which made our monthly

 

premium $75 and our prescription cost were between 0 and $5. I love my Medicare but it's not cheap. i would rather see a PUBLIC OPTION because it would increase the insured pool, lower premiums (including Medicare) and give the govt much more power in negotiating drug prices.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:20 PM

128. I pay $5,300 a year...

 

...for Medicare, supplemental insurance, Rx plan, and dental (no vision). About HALF what I paid when I was self/employed.

In one of the debates Jake Tapper went out of his way to argue with the field that Americans LOVE their private insurance too much.

BULL!!!

You tell Americans they can get the same coverage for HALF - OR EVEN LESS - and you watch how fast they suddenly will not love their private insurer anymore.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:11 PM

2. Bernie's MFA Bill would change much of how Medicare works and what it covers.

 

Full text of the bill here:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:13 PM

5. Yeah, and how is that gonna pass Congress?

 

Magic?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:14 PM

9. It starts by voting for a presidential candidate who supports it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:16 PM

15. and has a congress that will pass it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:17 PM

17. Vote for representatives that support it too.

 

Whether or not it passes is ultimately up to the voters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:19 PM

19. I can just see the voter in Mississippi and Alabama praising Jesus and voting for a democratic plan.

 

Yeah, right.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:21 PM

22. Part of living in a representative democracy is that not everyone will agree with you.

 

Fortunately for us, the majority of Americans support MFA.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:22 PM

25. You keep believing that!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:18 PM

123. If you consider 87% against being a "majority." LOL.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #123)


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #156)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:03 PM

157. Kaiser Family Foundation

 

87% against eliminating private insurance.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #157)


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #159)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:08 PM

161. 87% against isn't a "majority" except in upside-down world.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #161)


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #162)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:35 PM

165. Asked and answered.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #165)


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:07 AM

102. Right just vote for Bernie and everything else will fall into place. I should buy stock in rose

 

colored glasses.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #102)


Response to dhol82 (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:52 PM

46. No,

 

explain to the public what they get, how it works, and how it's funded. The public will demand it.

I don't lose any sleep worrying about what it would cost the rapacious insurance companies or their executives.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to FoxNewsSucks (Reply #46)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:21 AM

106. I really don't understand this repeated fallacy

 

M4A is sold as if the money is going to come from the insurance companies and the rich. The money really will be coming from the taxpayers, which is the fact that Sanders and Warren consistently try to hide. The other people who are going to be paying for it is anyone who works for anything related to any medical services.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to dansolo (Reply #106)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:32 PM

202. Hey, we have printing presses

 

or just have the fed issue it.

/sarc
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Andrew Yang

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:30 AM

82. When did Democrats stop fighting the long fight?

 

Seems we see accusations of "pipe dream" tossed around a lot lately, and the "Congress won't pass it so why bother" argument. What we need and want will most probably take more than one election cycle to get, and many more election cycles to keep. That we can't reach our goals in 4 years or less should never be a reason to not fight for them now.

===========
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:48 AM

87. That has got to be the smartest comment I've seen

 

In a long time on DU.

Yes, I'm serious.

I've been getting so fed up hearing all about how we need to limit our thinking to "what can get past Congress."

Thank you!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:51 AM

88. Well, thank you.

 

Sometimes midnight brings out the clarity.


=======
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #82)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:08 AM

193. When did Ds start acting like Rs by proposing pie-in-the-sky

 

programs that are short on explaining how they will be funded?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:14 PM

10. Where in that bill is the section that outlines how it all GETS PAID FOR?

 

Because I canít find it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:51 AM

89. If you're insured now, any added taxes will be less than your premium

 

But as I understand Bernie's platform, we're going to make those at the top start paying their fair share, which would include keeping all is proles healthy
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #89)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:29 AM

105. Not enough money at the top to fund this

 

People underestimate the costs of MFA and overestimate they number of rich people needed to find it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #105)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:31 AM

118. Not really true

 

Please try to explain how all of northern Europe can get away with it, while it's supposedly impossible here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #118)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:33 PM

124. Europe "gets away with it" by levying heavy taxes on their citizens to pay for healthcare.

 

The low end is around 15% per month of oneís income. In addition, many countries have additional taxes - like retirement taxes - that are not specifically called healthcare taxes but that are part of the mix of taxes that support their broad social support networks.

All told, Europeans can pay over 30% of their income in taxes to support their social programs. Thereís no reason to believe it would be any different here were we to adopt a European system of funding.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #124)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:13 PM

146. I wonder how many people appreciate everything Europeans get for their taxes

 

Like health care they don't have to pay exorbitantly for.

Like university education they don't need to go into massive debt to afford. Which isn't full of fraudulent institutions.

Like long-term paid family leave and the right to return to their position afterwards.

Like child care while parents work that doesn't cost as much as one parent can earn like it often does here.

When all those things are added up, I think we're getting the shaft with our privatized system. And I'm fairly sure I'm leaving some things out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #146)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:16 PM

147. Yes, we are getting the shaft.

 

But you will never get tens of millions of Americans who are happy with their employer-provided insurance - often at no cost to the employee - to agree to huge tax increases that hit them directly, simply to provide for the common good.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #147)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:54 PM

153. Many more are not so lucky

 

Employer provided insurance is becoming more the exception than the rule. Maybe some of those who'd like a chance to see a doctor will vote
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #118)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:52 PM

152. Wake up, ofcourse it can be done.

 

Just get your priorities in order, that's all it takes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Danmark (Reply #152)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:57 PM

155. I think you responded to the wrong post

 

Looks like you wanted the one above me. ✌️
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Undecided

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #105)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:12 AM

184. Many countries afford it. Just study how they do it

 

I am not a Sanders voter but any nation can decide to organize itself to serve its people or to serve a small slice of its people, such as multimillionaires, billionaires, and those corporate "citizens."

We have a very expensive system with poor health outcomes, including a high rate of debilitating illness and premature deaths. It needs to be changed and the first step is study systems with far better outcomes and adapt to the reality that we can assure decent health care for everyone.

Assuring suffering and premature deaths instead of health use is not smart and makes our entire country weak.

Sometimes adapting to reality means accepting the fact that we can achieve what other countries are able to achieve.



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Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #160)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:29 PM

164. Bloomberg does not believe in MFA. His plan is a lot like Biden's -

 

strengthen and expand Obamacare while adding a public option.

See here: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/politics/mike-bloomberg-health-care/index.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #164)


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #166)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:30 PM

173. No need to call Mike when his healthcare plan is outlined at his campaign website.

 

here: https://www.mikebloomberg.com/policies/health-coverage-plan?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4_vjnuCG5wIV0_7jBx0NPQhvEAAYASAAEgKXrfD_BwE

Note: the current outline does not provide specific info on where funding will come from, but it does estimate the cost at $1.5-trillion over 10 years.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:40 PM

40. Unfortunately he doesn't consider how Medicare is administered today, which includes...

 

...private insurance companies.
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #40)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:22 AM

77. Not it is not. Medicare Advantage is private insurance. Medicare is not.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #77)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:35 AM

84. But with Medicare

 

we have supplements and Part D for drug coverage. Those are private insurance companies.

Besides, Medicare for all that Bernie proposes is misleading. It isn't Medicare at all.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #84)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:22 AM

93. You won't need supplements. I'm all for getting the insurance company out of my healthcare, and now

 

that I have medicare, its fabulous. I would prefer not to have to pay a supplemental and drug plan, but so be it, it is still 100% better than my empolyer provided insurance which was the same premium as what I am paying now, $300 with my Medicare, supplemental and drug plan. But I don't have a $6000 deductible and 20% copay. I will admit, the drug plan was better with my employer plan, as I paid less for my scripts with them. With MFA, I will be paying roughly $185 a month on my income, sounds good to me. I had to sit at home with my employer plan and pass an 8mm kidney stone because I couldn't afford the $500 copay for the ER. You may have private insurance, but many people can't use it, so its not really healthcare.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #93)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:45 AM

96. My employer provided healthcare

 

was as good as it gets. I didn't have to pay a dime for it. We had a deductible, but were given money in an HSA to cover it. Still, Medicare and the supplements are fine considering my age and my husband's health problems.

I do agree that we need other options for some folks but I'm not unhappy with what I have now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #96)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 07:39 AM

109. I had really gold-plated insurance

 

Before I retired. Iím on my husbandís now which is almost as good. At my ex-job I paid $180/month for both of us. No deductibles or co-insurance (if you stayed in network) and very small co-pays for Rx and doc visits. LOTS of people still have good employer-based insurance like this and they would be at a disadvantage in any MFA plan - higher taxes than what they pay now for health care, and possibly not as good coverage. And if you think employers are going to raise your wage because theyíre not paying your insurance any more I have a bridge to sell you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Freddie (Reply #109)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:37 PM

149. LMAO! You're so right!

 

Yeah, the chances of that salary increase are pretty tiny.
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #77)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:09 PM

145. Wrong

 

Traditional Medicare is administered through private companies called carriers, or MACS.

https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Medicare-Contracting/Medicare-Administrative-Contractors/What-is-a-MAC#WhatIsAMac.

Your doctor does not send any claims to the Government, instead they send them to the individual MACs that then process the claims, and either pay, or deny that claim.

For example Wisconsin uses WPS, other states use Blue Cross Blue Shield.
This is one reason Medicare can boast such a low amount spent on administration compared to traditional insurance companies, they have contracted out a huge part of the administrative duties.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:12 PM

3. Yup, and mine just went up up by 200% in January.

 

Bernie is a bust as far as I am concerned.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:13 PM

7. Medicare will look very different after MFA is passed.

 

Full text of the bill here:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:15 PM

13. Ok. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:12 PM

4. you pay it in taxes. There will be no premiums, including people who are currently on Medicare and

 

will transition to Medicare for All. No premiums, no copays, no coinsurance to cover your 80/20 that you currently have on medicare now. You pay a 6.5% tax on your income for the coverage.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:14 PM

11. Do you really think that the republican members of Congress will just roll over and beg for this?

 

You are delusional.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:16 PM

16. No, but the people will want it and he will go to every state if need be to tell them what they can

 

have, IF they get their representatives to go along with it. It people want it they will get what they want or get rid of those standing in the way and find people who will support it. That is how it gets done.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:18 PM

18. If, if, if.

 

Great plan.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:20 PM

20. Well I know people are sick of going bankrupt or dying because they can't get healthcare. Sure you

 

have insurance, but can't afford to use it, so Yes IF, IF, IF. It is a place to start.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:18 AM

98. It's a better plan than defeatism

 

Should we just stop trying because Republicans might oppose something?

The fact is, the majority of people, including many Republicans, would support this plan.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to TidySum (Reply #98)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:52 AM

116. From the same group that did that poll...

 

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/398580-poll-majority-of-americans-say-the-would-not-vote-for-a
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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #16)


Response to vsrazdem (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:30 PM

31. Sure

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:09 AM

103. No. Clearly people vote against their own self interests time and time again and this will be no

 

different. We finally got traction with the ACA AFTER 10 YEARS and suddenly that is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for 'progressives'. Why we have to throw that ALL AWAY because a fake revolution is underway.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #103)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:56 AM

112. No, its not good enough when you can't afford to use it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:54 PM

47. Well, Joe Biden says republicons will be eager to work with us.

 

Even Moscow Mitch! Bi-partisan, you know.. . . .
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:31 PM

32. The current Medicare tax is 1.45% for the employee and 1.45% for the employer.

 

In truth, under this plan, the employee would pay a 6.5% tax AND the employer would pay another 6.5%. That is a 450% tax INCREASE for both the employee AND employer from the current rate.

Add that to the 6.2% Social Security payroll tax currently paid by both the employee and the employer, and you are talking about employees and employers each paying 12.7% in payroll taxes, and for the employer, that tax is paid on every employee.

THAT is a hard sell.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:58 PM

48. There is an income level for people to start paying. Lower income does not pay anything. This is

 

not a payroll tax. Employers do not pay anything, that is why they should love this plan. They do not match the employee amount, it is a 6.5% tax on your personal income, not a medicare tax. That is why it is medicare for ALL, so the premiums remain low.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:42 PM

71. Er, above you say there are no premiums. Now you say the 6.5% tax

 

keeps premiums low. What is it?

And the employers pay nothing into the system? And how does that not create a huge deficit in funding?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #71)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:25 AM

79. It is a tax, not a premium. Sorry, it should be keeps the costs per person low.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to stopbush (Reply #32)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:16 AM

92. Do your math and you'll see MFA is a deal

 

You're saying about a ten percent (additional) tax for MFA. The†median family income†for the United States is $75,500 in FY†2019. (HUD) That means about $7550 to have MFA.

My employer and I pay more than that for private insurance for my family if three, including premiums, copays and deductibles. I'd say twice as much, plus or minus.

Personally, I'd rather pay less in total than more. And it would also be nice to know I'd still be able to get health care if I lost my job.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #92)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 10:55 AM

191. But under current Medicare, EACH family member pays a monthly premium.

 

My wife and I each pay $155 a month for our Medicare plus dental, etc. What makes you think that would change under MFA?

If a single person makes $75,000 a year, they may well pay that extra $7550. But what makes you think that would apply to, say, a family of four with an income of $75,000? Do you really think MFA would cost the same for four people as it does for one? Even current employer-provided insurance usually requires an additional monthly premium if an employee adds their spouse and/or kids to the policy.

More people in the program means more services and expenses. Where does the funding come from to cover a family of four as opposed to an individual?

Just another obvious factor that seems to be overlooked by MFA advocates.
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:10 AM

177. So how does it work with doctors, many of whom refuse Medicaid, and even some

 

refuse Medicare?

Do we suddenly put all doctors on salaries set by the government?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #177)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:17 AM

185. Unless they want to retire, they will accept the only game in town.

 

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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #185)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 10:40 AM

189. And what happens when ten or twenty percent decide to retire, or just

 

to decline future public patients? A lot of them are past retirement age already.

How do we handle that?
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Undecided

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #189)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 10:50 AM

190. All patient's will be public, so unless they don't want to work anymore, they have no choice.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #190)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:19 AM

195. Dream on! There is no legal way we could prevent qualified doctors from

 

taking on private patients.

And many are ALREADY 55 and over and could retire whenever they want.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #195)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:18 PM

197. I don't know too may patient's who would love to pay out of pocket for their healthcare.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #197)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:23 PM

198. But we all know there are lots of doctors who could afford to retire early

 

or subsist on a handful of private pay patients.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #198)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:25 PM

199. I have been in the healthcare field for 40 years. Doctor's don't like to retire.

 

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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #199)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:40 PM

203. Medicare for all could make it a lot easier for them, if they don't feel like working

 

for the government at whatever salary the government decides.

You think they'll be okay working for a 50% pay cut? I don't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #203)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:42 PM

204. Yes, and the planet could be hit by an asteroid. Doomesday scenarios.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:13 PM

6. Isn't this the opposite end

 

of tax breaks for the rich?

There needs to be an income scale, but free for all?

How does Cuba do it?
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Joe Biden

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:13 PM

8. Because MFA isn't Medicare.

 

The name Medicare For All was used because everyone knows Medicare and most people like it, but MFA isn't actually Medicare. Plus, the candidates vary on what they consider MFA. It confuses people, which is part of the problem.

Here's a good (though long) article that explains it pretty well.

https://www.propublica.org/article/medicare-for-all-is-not-medicare-and-not-really-for-all-so-what-does-it-actually-mean
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:16 PM

14. He co-opted the name "Medicare" hoping people would fall for it. Nobody did.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:24 PM

26. "Fall for it"? It's not current Medicare... it's an *improved* version of Medicare.

 

We should all be able to "fall for" such things.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:42 PM

42. No it's not. It has little in common with the current Medicare. Actually probably just the "name".

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:10 PM

56. What it has in common is that it is a government run single payer system.

 

And I'd say that's its fundamental defining feature.

Even the current Medicare itself has changed in very significant ways since it started.
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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:15 PM

57. But, without considering how Medicare is administered, Sanders is proposing....

 

....that private insurance companies be eliminated entirely.

Even after 30 years in Washington he doesn't understand how private insurance companies are involved in administering, and keeping costs DOWN, the existing Medicare system.

Some people may think it's a "single payer system", but it really isn't. I have been on Medicare for 7 years, and I know it's NOT a "single payer system".
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #57)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:26 AM

80. OMG keeping costs down, are you serious. The way they keep costs down is by denying coverage.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:59 AM

90. There is no way Congress

 

Is going to kill Insurance Companies in one stroke. That is why Democrats manged to get the ACA PMed s a first step. We could have some of the problems fixed by now if voters had not listened to the far mongers. If Republicans stay in we will be back to square one.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:15 PM

12. He'll end $1000 or so in premiums, but assess $2000 in taxes. Win-lose for Americans.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:24 PM

27. That is not exactly true.

 

A 6.5% tax on an income of $200,000 amounts to $13,000 per year. If that $200,000 income covered a family of four, that family is likely paying far more than $13,000 per year for health insurance and is facing a lot of things which the insurance will not cover.

The issue that I have with Bernie is that he has not provided details on the cost side of his MFA plan. For example, does that 6.5% cover just the payer, or does it cover the spouse and kids?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:28 PM

29. I was generalizing. My point is we have no details, and the cost is probably more than we'll "save".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:36 PM

37. I can't dispute either point that you made. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:33 PM

34. And

 

For a person with that income who has employer paid insurance, you just raised their taxes $13,000.

This plan will never pass.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to squirecam (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:52 PM

45. Good point since the employer is currently paying most of the

 

person's health insurance premium.

Also, someone pointed out when Sen. Warren ran into her MFA debacle, the two MFA plans punish employers that had the empathy to offer health insurance to employees and lets the ones that didn't completely off the hook.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:00 PM

50. And

 

If you think after M4A that he employers will raise wages if they donít have to provide health care, Iíve got a bridge for sale, cheap.

Companies took their Trump tax cut.....and didnít invest or raise wages. They bought stock or gave dividends.

The candidates need to be honest.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Amy Klobuchar

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Response to squirecam (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 07:49 AM

110. That's trickle down, which we know doesn't work. Employers will pocket the difference, if any.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to squirecam (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:00 PM

49. And got rid of their deductibles and coinsurance.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to George II (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:29 PM

163. Where in the world did you find that hogwash or did you concoct it on your own?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:20 PM

21. Bernie's plan (and really Elizabeth's) is really more of a "Medicaid" for all

 

as either plan would cover more than Medicare does. It's just that "Medicare" has more positive reactions than "Medicaid".
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:31 PM

33. Riiiiight. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:22 PM

23. So Sanders wants to

 

change the one medical plan that currently works. Screwing up the healthcare of seniors' lives would be a disaster.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to snowybirdie (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:40 PM

39. I currently have Medicare A

 

which is free. Because I'm still working my employer's plan is my primary coverage (and I am fortunate that my employer has excellent insurance for a reasonable price and relatively low max out of pocket, no deductible).

If I were to stop working and go on Medicare it would cost me more out of pocket than my current plan. I'd have to pay for Medicare B, pay for a supplement to cover what A & B don't (including things like an annual eye exam), find a Medicare D policy, and get dental insurance.

I'm finding out that, while it's better than nothing, Medicare isn't everything we've been led to believe it is.

Both Sanders and Warren want to expand what Medicare covers which makes sense and can only improve it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:18 PM

59. Plus it was prepaid for 40 years before you were ever eligible

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:48 PM

73. It depends where you live.

 

I pay $135 a month for Medicare. I also have Medicare Advantage, which costs me $0 a month. Zero. I pay $20 a month for dental/hearing/vision. So, my premium for a great plan is $155 a month.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to snowybirdie (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:49 AM

108. How dare he replace an expensive complicated

 

program that doesnít cover all standard healthcare with a comprehensive ehensive plan with no premiums no copays no mystery bills no networks? WTAF!?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:25 PM

28. I'm paying $300 with supplemental and prescription coverage. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:35 PM

36. Well then you should welcome paying NOTHING

 

I sure would love it if my monthly health plan for myself and my daughter was nothing!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:41 PM

41. We will pay SOMETHING. That lack of detail is what bothers me about Sen. Sanders,

 

he seems to be that way with every big plan that he is espousing, heavy of the imagery of the benefits, nothing on the costs. Money to pay for his plans won't just drop out of trees and even if he seized all the money of billionaires, that wouldn't remotely be enough to pay for his proposals.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:01 AM

91. Not going to happen!

 

Nothing is FREE!
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Undecided

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #91)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 05:40 AM

174. The program is funded through taxes.

 

If you arenít paying taxes it costs nothing.
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Undecided

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Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:12 AM

104. NOTHING is FREE. And when we start bandying about 'free this and free that' WE LOSE. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #104)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 07:18 AM

182. 100%

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:01 PM

52. So am I and it is the best insurance I have ever had, but I am sure willing to have support everyone

 

having great insurance.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:34 PM

35. If you believe him, he will eliminate Medicare premiums, make copays zero, free dental, and

 

a bunch of other stuff that will never be enacted.

The only thing honest about MFA is that Sanders says it will increase your taxes. There are people in the country who will bomb government buildings if taxes are increased. There are local governments that need to increase taxes, but can't if federal taxes increase.

Now, with that said, we absolutely have to come up with a plan that covers everyone, and face the political realities to get something enacted. That means pipe dreams ain't gonna work.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #35)


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:45 PM

43. Be honest

 

Thatís the problem. If taxes go up $5000 for each person, but universal health care is worth it, then argue for that and convince everyone.

But lying and saying the magic unicorn will pay and you wonít......that wonít work. People know it isnít true and you lose credibility and voters that way.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to squirecam (Reply #43)


Response to squirecam (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:03 AM

192. Indeed. You point out a very important factor when you say

 

ď...if taxes go up $5000 PER PERSON.Ē

Not per family. Per person.

Current Medicare patients pay a monthly premium of $135 PER PERSON. Why would that change under MFA?

A family of four is going to see a huge increase in their taxes to fund MFA, because there will be a PER PERSON increase in taxes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:46 PM

44. Is Sen. Sander's plan a good idea?

 

No one is against full healthcare coverage for every American, but the reality is that has to be paid for. How does Bernie pay for his plan, he has not done the dollars and cents analysis that Sen. Warren did and got hammered for. Sen. Sanders is just moving along making promises without bothering with problematic details, the thing that astounds me is a lot of young people are buying his claims.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:05 PM

54. Well, I guess people should check and decide.

 

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:21 PM

60. There is no dollars and cents breakout like Sen. Warren did.

 

A lot of promises and visions of how things will be is not a plan, voters need to know the costs and Sen. Sanders is steadfastly avoiding laying those costs out for review.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:03 PM

53. And his plan covers 80 % he said it...by my math that is a 20% deductible that has no out of

 

pocket limit... so how is that going to work...we pay all these taxes and still need some sort of a wrap.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:31 PM

63. No, there is no 80%.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:32 PM

65. I am pretty sure he said 80%

 

When the transcript becomes available,I will check.
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Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:33 PM

67. No he did not. There is no deductible, no coinsurance, and a max of $200 for prescription drugs.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #67)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:43 PM

72. I am not in favor of this plan...I may have misunderstood...will check

 

I have not seen a detailed explanation of the plan.
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Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #72)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:30 AM

81. How can you not be in favor of a plan you have not seen detailed ?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #81)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:43 AM

95. Because it's Bernie's plan. nt.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:09 PM

55. Bernie proposes a wholly new system. It's Medicare in name only.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Politicub (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:23 PM

62. He proposes it without key details and some take him seriously. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:16 PM

58. Simple answer: more Government spending...

 

...the question is, where does the tax revenue come from for the additional spending?
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:32 PM

64. Well we seem to have no problem funding military, wars and tax breaks for the rich, so I guess

 

we can find if for the people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:33 PM

66. What has Sanders specifically proposed to address that?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:35 PM

68. From his website.

 


https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #68)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:54 PM

74. Pie in the sky options. Raise the top tax rate to 52%, tax Wall Street, etc.

 

Stuff that will never get through Congress.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #74)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:17 AM

75. I like pie, and sky, so I will keep wishing if you don't mind.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #75)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:15 PM

122. How about this: what if that pie in the sky actually means that you and the average American

 

would pay out 30% of their weekly paycheck to fund MFA? Would you be for it then?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #122)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:54 PM

125. Now that is pie in the sky. 6.5% is not 30%.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #125)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:37 PM

140. 30% is the tax rate individuals in the UK pay to fund government programs.

 

19% of UK government spending is on healthcare.
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:35 PM

69. Why do you assume more government spending?

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:22 PM

61. How do so many Dems and DUers not understand single payer health care systems like MFA?

 

People need to educate themselves!

With MFA and all other single player plans, be it from Sanders or Warren or whoever, premiums are converted to taxes. Those premiums could be the current Medicare premiums or they could be what many employees pay through paycheck deductions or what people pay through the insurance exchanges. Those are all gone. Yes, you may and likely will pay taxes but your premiums, co-pays, deductibles, prescriptions and other medical expenses would be history. Eliminating all of those expenses will result in a massive net savings to Americans as those expenses dwarf any new taxes implemented to pay for the single payer system.
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:36 PM

70. Exactly, If it works for other developed nations, it can work here.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:31 AM

83. Problem is, some people don't believe it. It's really that simple.

 

People donít see it passing, they see decades of new admins trying to repeal/change MFA just like ACA if it managed to pass, they think it will cost more than the rosey projections, many people are just stupid, many would like to try it out first, etc.

Thus, only chance I see is a Public Option ó with big subsidies ó where people can try it. If anywhere near as good as we think, 80% will take it within 5 years. Then, achieving MFA is simple.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:43 AM

86. As I understand it, the necessary taxes will be less than the premiums...

 

... and copays and all the other costs of the current system because all of those current costs have to pay for all insurance administration and profits and paperwork from 1000s of plans and wasted time of medical staff trying to wade through all of that IN ADDITION TO the costs of the actual healthcare, whereas the taxes paying for M4A just have to pay for the healthcare and the administration of the program itself.

==========
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:23 AM

78. This whole line of inquiry is disingenuous.

 

Senator Sanders has been clear from the beginning that Medicare will need to be expanded to replace for-profit health insurance to include things not now covered (dental, vision, etc). Your monthly premium will go away under Sander's version of M4A. So will mine. The co-pays will also go away. The "hole in Medicare" will be filled with coverage extended beyond current Medicare coverage. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Sanders wants comprehensive single payer health coverage for all Americans. That's it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to mike_c (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:41 AM

85. There have to be limits

 

Without them, you'd have people abusing the system. What are the limits?
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #85)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:29 AM

94. There are no limits. You get the care you need just like in other countries. If people can get

 

their healthcare, a lot of these illnesses could be caught early and save a lot of pain and money in treatment. How would they abuse it. You really think people want to go sit in a doctor's office or ER when they aren't sick just for the fun of it. Come on.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #94)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:50 AM

97. Oh, there are definitely people who will abuse it

 

if there are no limits. Some people take great delight in traipsing to the doctor multiple times a week. I'm in my 70s and just had a tooth removed (in the back). The dentist wants to do an implant for $5000. There's no way I need a $5000 tooth that badly back there. If there were no limits, I'd probably do it, but it sure as hell isn't necessary.

What about vision care? New glasses every six months? There must be limits.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #97)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:39 AM

99. I am sure there are things that it won't cover, I would think implants would be listed as cosmetic.

 

However, there are things that Medicare also doesn't cover. I got a welcome to medicare exam when I signed up and they ordered lab tests, including a Hepatitis C, which they said was a screening for my age group, which Medicare did not cover. Luckily it was only $24, so I am sure there are certain things like that involved.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #99)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:34 PM

148. The devil is in the details

 

To some folks, implants might be necessary.

BTW, Hepatitis C screening is supposed to be covered under certain circumstances. I'm surprised it wasn't paid for.

https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/hepatitis-c-screening-tests

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #148)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:39 PM

150. I was suprised too. In fact, I thought may be was another patient's test, because I have never had

 

elevated liver functions or any reason why it would have been done, but the doctor said it was routine in my age group for screening, so that may be why it wasn't covered, as there was no corresponding diagnosis code, just a screening, but I was born in 1953, so I don't know why it wasn't covered.

With implants, they would probably say you could get a bride, but not implant. But any dental coverage is better than none.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to mike_c (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:58 AM

101. But we are a consumer culture

 

So while I wholeheartedly support everyone being covered, you know and I know that consumers want and value different things, and many will want voluntary plans to get them those things.

Simple example: some people have had a cold for a week and a half. Some are fine with going to the minute clinic and seeing an anonymous PA who will prescribe a Z pack - they just want to be seen right effing now. Some will want to see Dr. Williams, the internal medicine doctor that they've seen for the past 15 years. Some will want to go to the Ear Nose and Throat practice and see a specialist. M4A on its own can't reconcile these three consumers.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Tom Steyer

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:52 AM

100. There are plenty of Medicare Part B supplment plans

 

... so it' questionable if private insurance actually goes away under MFA.
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Tom Steyer

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:36 AM

107. I believe Sanders

 

We can do this. We have to stop arguing and just do it. Think of all the other countries that have this sorted.

I'm tired of us working through the what about this or that. If we as a country want MFA we can do it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 09:02 AM

111. You realize don't you that Medicare now is not the Medicare For All bill of Sanders.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #111)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:36 AM

115. I don't think they do. I don't think people currently on Medicare realize that they most likely

 

would be paying nothing, because most people on medicare have limited incomes. If they did the sure wouldn't be against it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #115)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:12 PM

121. You mean Medicaid? That program already exists. The monthly income threshold

 

to qualify for Medicaid is ridiculously low. Most people - even those on a fixed income - make too much money per month to qualify for Medicaid, so their only option is Medicare.

Sorry, but the people who ďdonít realizeĒ how the current system works are those pushing Sandersí ill-thought-out MFA.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #121)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:04 PM

127. No I do not mean Medicaid. Medicare for all is no premiums, no deductibles and $200 out of pocket

 

drug expense. Why is it so hard to grasp. This is a system many other countries have.
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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #127)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:50 PM

130. You never seem to mention what the TAXES are in other countries to pay

 

for their healthcare systems. Why?
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #130)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:23 PM

134. I don't know what they are and I don't care what they are there. Here they will be 6.5%

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #134)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:32 PM

135. So, ignorance is bliss?

 

In the UK, the baseline tax for their national health system is 20% of an individualís income. But thatís not the only taxes paid by individuals - there are VATs and other taxes that push the typical Britís tax burden to over 30% of their gross income. UK taxes go into a general pot for government spending. Healthcare spending is around 19% of that pot.

You ask why and how they can do universal healthcare in Europe but not here, but when itís pointed out that the Europeans do it by levying significant taxes on individuals, you say you do not care what it costs them to do it there.

Ostrich, meet sand.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 10:55 AM

117. It's why "Medicare for all" is a stupid name

 

Ironically, Medicare doesn't even qualify as an ACA plan because its coverage is so minimal: there's a $1000 deductible and no out-of-pocket maximum. Sanders' plan, as outlined, would have zero premiums or copays, which is not remotely how Medicare works.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Andrew Yang

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Response to Recursion (Reply #117)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:13 AM

194. Er, your information about Medicare is wrong.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #194)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 11:29 AM

196. No. There's a $1000 deductible and no out of pocket maximum

 

Many Medicare recipients purchase private insurance to cover that, but vanilla Medicare isn't good insurance.
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Andrew Yang

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 11:55 AM

119. Currently, 100% of workers pay into Medicare thru a weekly payroll deduction of 1.45%.

 

Employers also pay into the fund at a rate of 1.45% PER EMPLOYEE.

Current Medicare beneficiaries pay an average premium of $135 per month.

Add all of that up and itís enough money to fund Medicare/Medicaid/Disability for the 19% of the population CURRENTLY on those programs. Current Medicare patients have co-pays for everything including prescriptions.

So, please tell me, Sen Sanders, how you come up with the funds to pay for the program for 100% of the population when you eliminate existing monthly Medicare premiums, co-pays and the employer contribution, all while expanding the Medicare program to cover a five-fold increase in the number of people in the program?


Sounds like snake oil to me.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #119)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 01:02 PM

126. Again, from his website.

 

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #126)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:36 PM

138. Again, Sanders does not provide SPECIFICS on where the funding comes from for his program.

 

Do you ever look at that link you paste in as an answer to every challenge made? I think not, because the answers do not lie at that link.
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Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #138)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:37 PM

139. You asked how he was proposing to pay for it. Not specifics.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #139)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:38 PM

142. Er, that's what specifics are, ie: how it's paid for.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Reply #142)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:41 PM

143. Show me a better plan that covers EVERYONE and I'm all for it. I don't see one out there.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #143)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:06 PM

144. This is silly talk.

 

Whatís ďbetterĒ about it if it has no chance of passage.

Whatís better if it is enacted and the price tag ends up being the worst-case that has been projected by independent voices that have examined the Sanders plan?

Whatís better if it ends up screwing current Medicare patients?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 04:40 PM

151. Premiums for a private insurance plan. eom

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 05:38 PM

168. I never realized so many people liked the current US health care system until I read the MFA threads

 

Last edited Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

A significant number of people apparently love the current system. They must love all of the high prices, all of the out of pocket expenses, all of the headaches dealing with insurance companies, etc. It is no wonder they so vociferously oppose MFA. I sure hope they never lose their jobs or encounter a significant medical emergency. It would be awful if a life experience threatened their idealistic view of things.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #168)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:16 PM

171. I know, I really don't get it. People saying this is going to make Medicare and healthcare worse.

 

I can't for the life of me figure it out, unless they are afraid of change, but for crying out loud, something HAS to change. People are dying. All these people that say they have GREAT insurance. It's basically I got mine, so I don't give a shit about anyone else. Very sad.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #171)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:23 PM

172. Your last two sentences perfectly sum up the MFA opposition.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:23 AM

178. We have health insurance in Australia.

 

Two types:

1. Public system: GPs bulk bills, sends you to a specialist who bulk bills, or does blood tests. Costs: nil.
Scripts vary in costs: depending on medicine, but usually heavily subsidised by the government. My scripts as a pensioner cost me $6, no matter what it is.

You could end up in hospital for weeks and not pay out of pocket.

Sounds like it's unaffordable for a country to do so? Well, it's paid for through the tax system. Of course, Australia doesn't maintain a super expensive Army, so the money is there, not being spent on fighting overseas wars.

Good system? Well, yes, it's free, so cheap. But there are disadvantages.
a. Can't choose your own specialist.
b. Public hospitals aren't very kind, they are overworked and try to keep beds free. Gall bladder out one afternoon, next morning, pack your bags, here are some pain killers, off you go, type of thing.
(Wife had hers out in the private system - spent a whole relaxing week in a hospital bed recovering.)

2. Private system.
You buy insurance, the more protection, the higher the premiums.
You get to choose your doctor, specialist, and hospital.
After a hospital stay, you will get a flood of bills for gap payment - the anaesthetist, the surgeon, the hospital itself charge more than what you are covered for.
So a patient is seen as a cash source, rather than a sick person who needs to be helped.

So there you are. Sounds like America has the private system only.

So yes, a MFA can be cost free to a patient.
(But is America going to give up it's war machine to do so? Not a chance!)
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:25 AM

179. you also won't have to pay for supplemental insurance

 

MFA includes all that. There's an argument that MFA differs so much from Medicare, that it's so much more generous, that it should be called something else.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:28 AM

180. Um, he stops it?

 

He ie speaking of HIS plan, not the current on.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:49 AM

181. Medicare for all.

 

Pity people can't see past a name and look at details.

'Obamacare' has the name Obama in it, hate Obama, so you must hate Obamacare. Never mind the details of what Obamacare actually is.

Same for MFA - has the word Medicare in it, so it must be expensive, have co-pays, deductibles, etc, right? And never mind looking at the details.

Shallow thinking at it's worst.

Maybe call it something else? NHC, for National Health Care? or UHC, Universal health care?
Whatever. But do yourself a favour, and look for the details behind the name, ok?

But yes. The (supposedly) richest, most advanced nation on the planet hasn't got a seriously efficient healthcare system? After how many centuries? The mind boggles!

Strange though, those who say 'we can't afford it!' have never thrown that idea around when it comes to other large government expenditures, like the Army, Navy, Air Force.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Aussie105 (Reply #181)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:12 AM

183. MFA was deliberately named that because people like and are familiar with Medicare

 

in order to deflect any opposition to calling it "government run healthcare"
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Response to stopbush (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 09:45 AM

188. Somebody needs to tell some of these people how much the taxes are in Canada, or the Netherlands.

 

NOTHING IS FREE!!! If you think for one minute that the only taxes that will increase are the rich you are crazy. NOTHING IS FREE. Would I like it better if college tuition and medical care were taken out via mine and others taxes of course, if it is a level playing field, if they fix the tax laws at the same time. Otherwise the middle class will pay a serious price for these things.

I don't know what the percentage of taxes are in Canada, but we have friends who are professors there and they say they are very high, but having the healthcare paid for is a major plus.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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