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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

DarthDem

(5,318 posts)
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:01 PM Dec 2019

Tired of the Meme That Harris/Booker Show That "Democrats Have a Problem"

Of course every development of any kind is always dooooooom, doooom for the Democrats in the eyes of the media, but today I'm seeing some of this on DU as well and it puzzles me. First off, I was a Harris supporter but have now switched to Biden and I'm saddened that she ended her campaign.

BUT this isn't indicative of some huge diversity problem that the Democrats allegedly have. It's more a combination of three factors:

1. Harris ran a pretty poor campaign and failed to adjust when needed (probably most notably after the first debate);
2. Booker's campaign has been phony and tin-eared and he just hasn't resonated;
3. Huge numbers of black voters support Joe Biden.


With Biden already in the race and the first choice of so many African-Americans, and with Booker and Harris doing poorly as candidates no matter what their race, there really is no evidence of some systemic problem with the Democratic primary process. Particularly when we just had a Democratic black president from 2009-2017. And as far the claims that there aren't enough women, I just don't get it. Warren and the relatively surging Klobuchar are both very much in this, and our very last nominee three years ago was a woman.

Stop feeding into the Politico/The Hill-style "Dems in Disarray - Oh Noes!!!!!11" nonsense. There's enough of that coming from the other side and foreign bots already, thanks very much.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
120 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Tired of the Meme That Harris/Booker Show That "Democrats Have a Problem" (Original Post) DarthDem Dec 2019 OP
The narrative is irrational BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #1
Check my math (as I have a head cold), but if Biden is our nominee... The Valley Below Dec 2019 #2
Why would that age group, who in the Democratic party are mostly women and minorities, pnwmom Dec 2019 #4
Who said they would be "thrilled"? n/t Mr.Bill Dec 2019 #5
Why would it be an "opportunity"? That implies it would be something special to them. nt pnwmom Dec 2019 #17
Wow. Some response. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #8
I read your post, and answered it, but you still haven't answered mine. pnwmom Dec 2019 #13
Perhaps they don't see that but just a good guy who will make a great president. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #56
One thing about women your daughter's age. pnwmom Dec 2019 #57
Oh FFS. MicaelS Dec 2019 #58
I haven't seen any indication since then that he's stopped trying to get along pnwmom Dec 2019 #59
How old were the allegations against Justice Kavanaugh? For some things there is no kelly1mm Dec 2019 #72
Have to agree with you on that. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #77
To compare the two is utter nonsense. MicaelS Dec 2019 #118
And when is the bad guy going to be Clarence Thomas? treestar Dec 2019 #113
Some people hold a grudge until it dies. MicaelS Dec 2019 #115
As is my daughter and her friends (who are mid 30's) Alliepoo Dec 2019 #97
My two older daughters (I have three) support Biden. The younger daughter my baby...in Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #98
It seems to me that Biden is more popular Alliepoo Dec 2019 #120
Exactly, it's not just that Biden or the top candidates are white, radius777 Dec 2019 #73
I agree. Both candidates you mentioned made mistakes R B Garr Dec 2019 #3
Of course, no other candidate has made mistakes mcar Dec 2019 #14
Yes, they all make mistakes. I guess miscalculation R B Garr Dec 2019 #18
I thought Booker did well in the last debate JonLP24 Dec 2019 #6
both very intelligent people stopdiggin Dec 2019 #7
Not me. He was my very strong #2 at the start of the season... The Valley Below Dec 2019 #9
It was a very mild attack JonLP24 Dec 2019 #16
It was very contrived and IMS not a response to the question Booker was asked. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #20
To me I care about policies JonLP24 Dec 2019 #21
I don't agree. I think Biden has the more enlightened position on the issue and that regardless... The Valley Below Dec 2019 #22
Gateway Drug is a myth JonLP24 Dec 2019 #23
Not according to the National Institutes for Health. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #25
Here is a solution JonLP24 Dec 2019 #29
That approach is NOT working here in CA. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #31
Not all prohibition supporters are speaking the truth JonLP24 Dec 2019 #36
That poster is to the right of Ronald Reagan on marijuana policy BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #38
We need a sane path. Criminalizing marijuana (making possession a felony) is insane. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #41
I agree no legal dispensary should sell to anyone under 18 JonLP24 Dec 2019 #43
Since "legalization" here in CA a lion's share of the business is made up of criminal enterprises... The Valley Below Dec 2019 #49
One reason why I want legalization to happen JonLP24 Dec 2019 #54
I'm telling you Jon, that the illegal trade here dwarfs the legal trade. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #62
+10000 emmaverybo Dec 2019 #79
"Marijuana consumption is taking a huge toll on students here". crazytown Dec 2019 #81
Sorry, but your story is way out of date. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #83
Not so. Includes 2017. crazytown Dec 2019 #87
2017 was still prior to legalized sales here in CA. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #89
From what you are saying, it is a much the method of delivery, vaping pens, crazytown Dec 2019 #91
Both. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #108
Gateway Drug is a myth , do you have a link for that nonsense? stonecutter357 Dec 2019 #40
I can show a lot of links JonLP24 Dec 2019 #42
Since he was right, he could have afforded to forego the cheap and immature laugh line. emmaverybo Dec 2019 #44
I see your point JonLP24 Dec 2019 #46
Booker was actually wrong, which makes the cheap and immature laugh line... The Valley Below Dec 2019 #51
Needs more study. For youth, under 18, marijuana use can have real consequences. Anecdotally, emmaverybo Dec 2019 #64
We have similar positions. I'd say the biggest difference today isn't "strength" The Valley Below Dec 2019 #69
Yes. It's not just that I agree , but that you are right. Brains still developing are very much emmaverybo Dec 2019 #82
Biden has a more enlightened position on Marijuana??? Autumn Dec 2019 #30
This universe. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #32
Wrong. nt Autumn Dec 2019 #35
Actually, I'm not. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #37
Here's the science. I no longer take opioids for pain, I am healthier, happier and more active. Autumn Dec 2019 #55
i'm glad you found something that works for your pain. Sincerely. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #60
Don't insult me by telling me that marijuana is a gateway drug. Go to any legal medical Autumn Dec 2019 #61
No one is denying your access to medical marijuana. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #63
Alcohol is the ultimate gateway drug BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #66
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2019 #90
Post removed Post removed Dec 2019 #65
False. Bye now. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #70
I so agree. No opiates for me, either. A couple of tooks works better for me and doesn't ... marble falls Dec 2019 #119
Seriously!! Joe is COMPLETELY out of touch when it comes to his policies on marijuana. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #78
Quite to the contrary. His caution is prescient. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #80
Are we really just trying to prove a negative? WA-03 Democrat Dec 2019 #102
Trust me, illegal delivery services here in CA that operate openly and that appear on Weedmaps... The Valley Below Dec 2019 #114
No argument about CA WA-03 Democrat Dec 2019 #116
This idea that certain candidates are entitled to success is puzzling. tritsofme Dec 2019 #10
Oh stop making sense! The Valley Below Dec 2019 #11
Maybe they should pay more attention to the dignified campaign Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #12
+++, thank you! Well said. R B Garr Dec 2019 #19
Agreed DarthDem Dec 2019 #26
"Race card?" Seriously? There's no such thing. Garrett78 Dec 2019 #93
That's your opinion and you can keep it. And.. Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #95
If parroting a bogus Republican talking point is your idea of thinking for yourself... Garrett78 Dec 2019 #103
Strawman argument. Ask Tim Wise what to say and get back to me... Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #104
He said to tell you that you're on the wrong site. This isn't Republican Underground. Garrett78 Dec 2019 #105
I have been a DU member for over 15 years and a registered Democrat for 47 years. Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #106
It's not just Democrats ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #15
please squirecam Dec 2019 #24
Agreed Fully DarthDem Dec 2019 #27
Race is always a factor ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #39
Russian active measures that used race to divide the party... Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #52
Exactly. Would not be surprised if they are behind this new talking point also. maximusveritas Dec 2019 #68
We didn't learn from 2016. To hear Cory Booker one minute infer that Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #85
James Comey did more damage than Vladimir Putin. StevieM Dec 2019 #75
Comey did damage to be sure. However, I doubt he is responsible Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #84
I didn't say he is responsible for the Russian interference. StevieM Dec 2019 #99
If the 13%, or any part of that percent of black males who fell for the "super predators" smear.. Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #100
I agree that Comey's effect wasn't in suppresing the black vote. StevieM Dec 2019 #110
Still waiting squirecam Dec 2019 #71
Even though Harris wasn't my preferred candidate, I spent a fair amount of time/effort Sapient Donkey Dec 2019 #88
What do the polls say awesomerwb1 Dec 2019 #45
I would say specifically that it's white supremacy loyalsister Dec 2019 #47
I think Harris sunk herself when Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #28
I think that was part of it FreeState Dec 2019 #33
Exactly - OhZone Dec 2019 #34
We're Dems. Playing the race card with our own is the fastest way to.. Kahuna7 Dec 2019 #50
She actually got a boost after that. And it's because people *do* care about it. Garrett78 Dec 2019 #94
She got an initial boost because Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #96
Apparently at this time he's more in touch with a larger number of voters than the other emmaverybo Dec 2019 #107
Oh my, the Dems have a problem? Must be Tuesday Raven123 Dec 2019 #48
too fucking bad. we have systematic issues that need answers. Kurt V. Dec 2019 #53
I know! It's been nearly a whole day! Iggo Dec 2019 #67
Thank You! Tarheel_Dem Dec 2019 #74
K&R Scurrilous Dec 2019 #76
BULLETIN: Not all candidates in a race can win! regnaD kciN Dec 2019 #86
You have a strange definition of surging Celerity Dec 2019 #92
Mayor Pete gradually worked his way up to the top of my list. StevieM Dec 2019 #109
I agree that a 3 initial straight run (IA, NH, NV) is probably Buttigieg's only real shot at winning Celerity Dec 2019 #111
I like Stacey Abrams a lot too. StevieM Dec 2019 #112
+100000 Celerity Dec 2019 #117
Truthfully it's not a race issue with me but a simple matter of not being inspired by either OregonBlue Dec 2019 #101
 

BannonsLiver

(17,027 posts)
1. The narrative is irrational
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:04 PM
Dec 2019

Put forth by people trying to out-woke each other on social media and a for profit media hell bent on sewing divisiveness.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
2. Check my math (as I have a head cold), but if Biden is our nominee...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:08 PM
Dec 2019

I believe it will be the very first opportunity for votes 33 or younger to cast a ballot for a white male Democrat running for president in a general election in their lives.

And if he's elected Biden would become only the second Roman Catholic ever elected to the office (JFK being the first).

We have a big coalition. We are in good shape.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,198 posts)
4. Why would that age group, who in the Democratic party are mostly women and minorities,
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:11 PM
Dec 2019

be thrilled about the "opportunity" to vote for a white male Democrat?

Get real.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr.Bill

(24,467 posts)
5. Who said they would be "thrilled"? n/t
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:16 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,198 posts)
17. Why would it be an "opportunity"? That implies it would be something special to them. nt
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:43 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
8. Wow. Some response.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:29 PM
Dec 2019

Did you actually read my post, or just jumping off here?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,198 posts)
13. I read your post, and answered it, but you still haven't answered mine.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:39 PM
Dec 2019

Why do you think women and minorities would view it as an "opportunity" to vote for a white male for President?

That was the only choice for more than 200 years. Since George Washington, Obama was the first non-white President, and there has still never been a woman.

(And as a Catholic, I would be much more enthused about voting for the first woman, than I would for another Catholic.)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(69,674 posts)
56. Perhaps they don't see that but just a good guy who will make a great president.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:23 PM
Dec 2019

I am supporting Biden as is my 26 year old daughter. She actually met Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,198 posts)
57. One thing about women your daughter's age.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:28 PM
Dec 2019

They didn't watch, in real time, as an overly collegial Biden failed to protect Anita Hill in the Clarence Thomas hearings.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
58. Oh FFS.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:32 PM
Dec 2019

It happened 28 years ago. Just how long are people like yourself continue to beat this dead horse?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,198 posts)
59. I haven't seen any indication since then that he's stopped trying to get along
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:40 PM
Dec 2019

with people who can't be gotten along with.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kelly1mm

(4,990 posts)
72. How old were the allegations against Justice Kavanaugh? For some things there is no
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:35 AM
Dec 2019

statute of limitations.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,365 posts)
77. Have to agree with you on that.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:44 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
118. To compare the two is utter nonsense.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:08 PM
Dec 2019

Kavanaugh actually committed sexual abuse. In no way did Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
113. And when is the bad guy going to be Clarence Thomas?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:49 PM
Dec 2019

It's strange that Biden if the biggest baddie in that incident.

And then there is the Republican POTUS who nominated Thomas.

Yet Biden is the bad guy. Good grief.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
115. Some people hold a grudge until it dies.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:57 PM
Dec 2019

Then they have it stuffed and mounted.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Alliepoo

(2,276 posts)
97. As is my daughter and her friends (who are mid 30's)
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:19 AM
Dec 2019

They were thrilled when Biden threw his hat in the ring. They recognize a good, decent man in Joe Biden and they are happy to vote for him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(69,674 posts)
98. My two older daughters (I have three) support Biden. The younger daughter my baby...in
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:38 AM
Dec 2019

college supported Elizabeth Warren until recently but now has switched to Biden...she is Gay and worries what will happen if Trump is reelected. I think we would have to send her to relatives in Ireland. I fear for LGBTQ should that monster win reelection...Heller was decided by one vote...anyone who thinks LGBTQ could not be re-criminalized is not paying attention to the right wing monsters among us...and not just Trump either but Republicans who have become a party my Dad would not recognize...He was GOP until Clinton. He thought Clinton was treated like shit and became a Democrat or so my Mom told me. My son is a Warren supporter and should she not make it, he will vote for the nominee. He just wants Trump gone. He is union and doesn't like M4A....but likes her. All of the kids the will vote (unusual for their age group) and my son's new wife now votes...first time in 16 although she was old enough in 12...her family is not political.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Alliepoo

(2,276 posts)
120. It seems to me that Biden is more popular
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:34 AM
Dec 2019

Among that cohort than some polls would indicate. Just from my personal knowledge. But we’re just normal everyday folks and I’m guessing that there are more everyday folks out there just like us. I have some relatives that are Gay and many Gay friends. I also worry about them and support them in every way I can. Something good has to happen in this country very soon. I remember something Jerry Springer said ( I know! But he’s a good democrat and he was very supportive of our union during a strike- CWA 4310 4320) that the arc of justice is long but we will get there. I think about his words often and find some solace in them. I’d be really happy if the arc of justice whacked the gop right up side their heads about now!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

radius777

(3,702 posts)
73. Exactly, it's not just that Biden or the top candidates are white,
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:58 AM
Dec 2019

but fairly boring with no real connection to PoC. Beto was charismatic white guy known for fighting for brown people, but (suprise surprise) also failed to gain traction just like the black/brown candidates themselves.

The fact that small white states IA/NH go first sets the narrative and media coverage that just selects for a boring field that plays to the needs of heartland whites, just like our Electoral College system, the Senate etc - revolves around them when in fact the Dem base is diverse and metropolitan, where most people in America live, and Hillary won 3m more votes than the Orange Clown. Note that Hillary is white but is an iconic figure of women's rights that PoC (especially black women) felt a social justice connection with.

Obama won IA but he was a once in a generation talent who had no Iraq War vote do defend, and there was/is always Hillary hatred/sexism play, especially in the heartland. And that was time before Tea Party/Birtherism/Trumpism. Obama would never win now, would likely be at the bottom along with the other candidates of color.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

R B Garr

(17,219 posts)
3. I agree. Both candidates you mentioned made mistakes
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:08 PM
Dec 2019

or miscalculations about race that backfired on them it seems.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,993 posts)
14. Of course, no other candidate has made mistakes
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:40 PM
Dec 2019

Right?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

R B Garr

(17,219 posts)
18. Yes, they all make mistakes. I guess miscalculation
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:44 PM
Dec 2019

is a better word for it. It looks like she miscalculated the mood of the electorate at this time regarding race and about Obama’s VP. It’s looking like voters may have been wanting more unity at this time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
6. I thought Booker did well in the last debate
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:16 PM
Dec 2019

There are only a couple issues that prevent me from supporting him but I think he would be sincere in reforming our criminal justice system.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

stopdiggin

(11,861 posts)
7. both very intelligent people
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:28 PM
Dec 2019

many strong qualities .. but so far haven't run great campaigns (as can be said for others in the field)

I truly think it goes to the electability thing (even though I know it makes people cringe). And I'll go on and say -- in other years, other cycles -- I don't think Biden is nearly as strong. (maybe not even a real factor)

People are just SO desperate to get Trump out ....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
9. Not me. He was my very strong #2 at the start of the season...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:33 PM
Dec 2019

so I'm strongly biased in his favor.

But when he runs on the politics of love in one moment and then desperately attacks with I thought you were high in the next, it does not compute with this former supporter.

Looks phony.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
16. It was a very mild attack
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:42 PM
Dec 2019

Booker supports legalization as part of his criminal justice reforms. He was drawing a contrast between him and Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
20. It was very contrived and IMS not a response to the question Booker was asked.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:59 PM
Dec 2019

So it looked like a "zinger" gone bad to me.

And a zinger that clashed supremely with the politics of love.

One really can't have it both ways. Booker drew a contrast, but he came out the big loser by doing so in my estimation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
21. To me I care about policies
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:01 PM
Dec 2019

And Booker showed he had the better policy and also the Cory Booker that led people to speculate he could be President came through in that debate. That Cory Booker was missing for most of the campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
22. I don't agree. I think Biden has the more enlightened position on the issue and that regardless...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:05 PM
Dec 2019

that Booker made himself look bad.

There are ways to have reasoned differences of opinions and to respectfully outline those differences. But Booker didn't do that. Instead he went for the zinger. It was a cheap shot that made him look bad IMO.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
23. Gateway Drug is a myth
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:11 PM
Dec 2019

And Booker was right that Cannabis prohibition disproportionately harm people of color.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
25. Not according to the National Institutes for Health.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:17 PM
Dec 2019

One of many serious issues with marijuana use, especially among teens.

Biden is on the money. We need to find solutions that address unfair criminalization without sacrificing a generation to the ill effects of marijuana on their young minds.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
29. Here is a solution
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:25 PM
Dec 2019

Don't sell to teens and adults don't give your product to teens. An adult can buy a teen alcohol. With alcohol you have far more severe side effects & deaths not to mention a heavier style of drinking is associated with homicide offenders than the general public but you don't see anyone calling for the banning of alcohol.

Im trying hard to get cannabis treated the same as alcohol. Hopefully it comes up as a ballot measure in Arizona (which btw legalization received more votes than Hillary Clinton in Arizona & Nevada).

I would have preferred Kamala Harris because at least I know she would try to legalize cannabis.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
31. That approach is NOT working here in CA.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:33 PM
Dec 2019

The legalization scheme is a disaster. Any high schooler can summon a delivery service via Weedmaps and have a vape pen delivered in minutes.

Marijuana consumption is taking a huge toll on students here. It is a public health crisis that is being ignored to our peril.

Those who speak the truth are being shouted down with cries of "reefer madness."

The truth is that we've got a huge problem. Educators are throwing up red flags. Few are listening.

We've screw up royally.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
36. Not all prohibition supporters are speaking the truth
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:42 PM
Dec 2019

You may be right about your local situation so I'm not going to say you're spouting reefer madness. Keep in mind a lot of Republicans are against legalization & Sheldon Anderson poured a lot of $$ in my state to defeat the proposal. I may move to one of the West Coast states Washington, Oregon, or California if my state doesn't get its stuff together. Cannabis of any amount is a felony in Arizona and it was easier to get than alcohol as a teen because for alcohol you needed to find an adult to run down to the store for you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BannonsLiver

(17,027 posts)
38. That poster is to the right of Ronald Reagan on marijuana policy
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:45 PM
Dec 2019

Anecdotal local PTA gossip is all they have to refute any arguments. It's kind of pitiful, really.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
41. We need a sane path. Criminalizing marijuana (making possession a felony) is insane.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:50 PM
Dec 2019

However, it is also an insane situation that any teen with a cell phone can have a vape pen delivered in minutes via an on-line app, no questions asked.

That is the prevailing situation here in very liberal Los Angeles.

And educators--caring decent people who devote themselves to bettering the lives of students--are saying that they have never seen anything like what's happening in the schools now. Lives and futures are being messed up. That's the truth.

Vape pens have changed everything. Kid are taking puffs between classes. And the results are predictable and catastrophic.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
43. I agree no legal dispensary should sell to anyone under 18
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:53 PM
Dec 2019

I would actually the draw the line at 21 because I want cannabis treated the same as alcohol. Nothing more, nothing less.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
49. Since "legalization" here in CA a lion's share of the business is made up of criminal enterprises...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:07 PM
Dec 2019

that do not collect taxes and that sometimes do--and sometimes do not--conform to the laws about selling to minors.

Believe me when I tell you that high schooler know which delivery services will have a vape pen at their meeting spot in minutes, no questions asked. Cash transactions. And they know which "illegal dispensaries" will sell to them as well.

And also believe me when I tell you that educators are deeply (deeply) concerned about what's happening. The amount of consumption during school hours has sky-rocked according to the teachers and counsellors I know.

And also trust me that I want to one in prison for possession. That's insane.

But we have a problem with law enforcement. If we decide not to prosecute marijuana laws entirely, then criminal enterprises (that are out in the open) will (and do) sell to teens.

And teen use is very negative for the brains and life-prospects of young people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
54. One reason why I want legalization to happen
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:14 PM
Dec 2019

is to take the profits out of drug trafficking organizations where the underworld is very dangerous. I believe it is much safer to purchase from a dispensary.

I think California should strengthen regulations if they have that kind of problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
62. I'm telling you Jon, that the illegal trade here dwarfs the legal trade.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:32 PM
Dec 2019

And for most consumers there is no way to tell if a dispensary or delivery service is legal or illegal. They look the same. Both show up on apps like Weedmaps looking indistinguishable.

The legal industry is actually screaming bloody murder, as their prices are being undercut by illegal businesses that don't pay the State taxes and fees.

Some of these illegal dispensaries and delivery services screen out minors, but some do not. The word spreads about who will sell THC products to teens.

We have strict regulations here. What we don't have is law enforcement. As we have (rightly) turned away from the idea of sending people to jail or prison for possession or low-level drug offenses, we have also stopped enforcing laws about sales to minors. So what do we do? We have a conundrum.

Do be aware that the problem with teen consumption here is a major problem. Not widely reported, as of yet. But it is real never-the-less and we need to figure out some sane solutions, and soon.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
81. "Marijuana consumption is taking a huge toll on students here".
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:19 AM
Dec 2019
It is a public health crisis that is being ignored to our peril.

Evidence, links, anything?

Teens are using less marijuana, than previously, after legalization. Facts, not anecdotes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/news/california-teens-marijuana/amp/
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-02-14/teen-pot-use-fell-in-states-that-legalized-medical-marijuana-study
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
83. Sorry, but your story is way out of date.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:43 AM
Dec 2019

It is talking about 1999 through 2015, when "medical marijuana" was legalized in many states.

Things here in CA have changed radically since recreational use was legalized.

The old medical marijuana scheme worked, by and large.

Adults who wanted legal THC products had no difficulty getting a prescription from a pot doctor, no one went to jail for possession, and the industry was pretty well-regulated. Sales to minors was nill.

Not any more. It has become a wild west show here in CA and teen use is exploding. Your 5-10 year old data is tragically behind the times.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
87. Not so. Includes 2017.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:06 AM
Dec 2019

The 16th Biennial State California Healthy Kids Survey.
Austin, G., Polik, J., Hanson, T., & Zheng, C. (2018). School climate, substance use, and student well-being in California, 2015-17. Results of the Sixteenth Biennial Statewide Student Survey, Grades 7, 9, and 11. San Francisco: WestEd.
https://data.calschls.org/resources/Biennial_State_1517.pdf

Comparing 2017 to previous survey (2015).

7th graders the rate of marijuana use dropped by 47 percent
9th graders the rate of marijuana use dropped by 25 percent
11th graders the rate of marijuana use dropped by 15 percent

The percentage of teens reported using marijuana products multiple times or repeatedly within the past 30 days also declined across all age groups.

That's 2017 - you've go any more recent data?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
89. 2017 was still prior to legalized sales here in CA.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:25 AM
Dec 2019

You are citing old studies that don't match the current situation. The data is invalid.

I'm living in the real world and listening to people on the front-lines of this crisis who work in the schools and who are seeing the devastation that's taking place among their students.

The numbers will come. Meanwhile we will be many years deep into what is now an obvious crisis.

Marijuana use by teens is way up. Use during school hours is causing huge problems. We are unwise to ignore reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
91. From what you are saying, it is a much the method of delivery, vaping pens,
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:56 AM
Dec 2019

as the formal legal status - It remains illegal to supply THC to minors.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
108. Both.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:14 PM
Dec 2019

It is illegal to supply THC to minors, but since "recreational legalization" here in CA it seems like all law enforcement around marijuana has ceased entirely.

As I've mentioned previously, the illegal/unregulated/criminal side of the "industry" now dwarfs the regulated dispensary business.

And many of these illegal enterprises--ones that operate openly--will deliver or otherwise sell to minors.

So easy access is one side of the current epidemic of teen use we are seeing here.

The other side is that vaping, unlike burning cannabis buds, is very discreet. So many students are now using on campus. Often daily.

The negative consequences flowing from that surge in students being stoned at school are precisely what one would expect from adolescents going to classes while high on THC.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

stonecutter357

(12,742 posts)
40. Gateway Drug is a myth , do you have a link for that nonsense?
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:46 PM
Dec 2019

cannabis was a gateway drug for me.....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
42. I can show a lot of links
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:51 PM
Dec 2019

Once and for All, Marijuana Is Not a Gateway Drug
According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.

As the 2016 election approaches, marijuana legalization is in the air once again, with ballot initiatives likely to succeed in at least five states, including California. As usual, politicians—including some presidential candidates, notably Carly Fiorina—are trying to turn back the tide by spreading fear that weed is a gateway to more dangerous drugs. But research increasingly shows not only that the "gateway" theory is incorrect, but that weed may actually help people with addictions stop taking other drugs, rather than start.

On the surface, the gateway idea seems reasonable enough. After all, there are almost no heroin users who didn't start their illegal drug use with marijuana, and marijuana smokers are 104 times more likely to use cocaine than those haven't tried weed.

Yet as scientists constantly remind us, correlation isn't the same thing as causation. For example, the number of people killed annually by dogs correlates almost perfectly with the growth in online revenue on Black Friday. And the rise in autism diagnoses is strongly correlated with the growth in sales of organic food. It's technically possible that some third factor causes both of these apparently haphazard connections. However, it's completely implausible that these connections are causal, and odds are that the links are due to random chance.

In terms of marijuana's specific correlation with other drug use, slightly less than half of Americans over 12 have tried marijuana, while less than 15 percent have taken cocaine and less than 2 percent used heroin, according to the latest National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. Even smaller portions go on to become addicted to those drugs: Typically, only 10 to 20 percent of those who try alcohol and other drugs get hooked.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013

I can post 20 links but it doesn't matter for drug warriors. Gateway drug is the argument Chris Christie was making in the Republican Primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,147 posts)
44. Since he was right, he could have afforded to forego the cheap and immature laugh line.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:56 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
51. Booker was actually wrong, which makes the cheap and immature laugh line...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:10 PM
Dec 2019

that much worse.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,147 posts)
64. Needs more study. For youth, under 18, marijuana use can have real consequences. Anecdotally,
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:42 PM
Dec 2019

some say it was gateway for them. I think some caution is called for and much more research needed before Fed legalizing, but decriminalization for personal use called for.

Do know pot is a great deal stronger than it was when it first became popular with youth. Do not think transport and med and many other occupations in which an altered state could impair job function will stop requiring testing whatever the federal level outcome.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
69. We have similar positions. I'd say the biggest difference today isn't "strength"
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 10:10 PM
Dec 2019

when it comes to teen usage, but in the delivery system.

Vaping has made it very easy for students to discretely take a puff on campus. It is happening at unprecedented levels and that's taking a toll on learning, undermining academic success, and harming long-term life prospects. Unfortunately.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,147 posts)
82. Yes. It's not just that I agree , but that you are right. Brains still developing are very much
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:22 AM
Dec 2019

affected—short term memory loss, apathy, these show up in youth particularly, whereas people more used to the effects, already trained and habituated to job demands, with impulse control established, can get by. We do have enough studies to show negative affect of continuous and long
term pot use on developing minds.

But adults can also suffer a number of side effects. And often they add other drugs, alcohol, prescription drugs, to the mix which can result in making some drug effects more potent or blocking needed effects. Driving with a number of drugs on board is also a social problem we need to consider. Only after enough study can we come to sensible drug policies that need not be unduly draconian but also can protect more vulnerable populations, while establishing needed restrictions in operating machinery, establishing drug warnings and contraindications, protecting the public while respecting individual rights.

We should not be as nonchalant in our policies as we were once, on the other hand, so quick to adopt Needlessly punitive and stigmatizing laws. We need more information. That is straight forward and what we would demand for any substance in wide use with some mind-altering properties.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,490 posts)
30. Biden has a more enlightened position on Marijuana???
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:28 PM
Dec 2019

In what universe?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
32. This universe.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:34 PM
Dec 2019

Biden is ahead of the curve. Miles ahead.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
37. Actually, I'm not.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:43 PM
Dec 2019

Look at the science. Look at the effects on young brains. Look at the lowered life opportunities, impaired learning, and diminished academic performance.

This is not a benign drug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,490 posts)
55. Here's the science. I no longer take opioids for pain, I am healthier, happier and more active.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:16 PM
Dec 2019

My mind is clearer and I feel emotionally well. Had I not discovered marijuana at the age of 64 I would be dead. Having been in a chemical fog for 10 years and by luck accidentally ingesting an edible that changed my life they can shove their anti marijuana bullshit science up their asses. This is a healing plant that makes a difference in people's lives.

Now since there seem to be so many republican talking points going around I will borrow one.
They can pry my medical marijuana from my cold dead hands.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
60. i'm glad you found something that works for your pain. Sincerely.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:17 PM
Dec 2019

But never insult me by trying to to paint my position as having anything to do with Republican talking points. That's seriously not cool.

Marijuana has very bad effects on developing minds. We need more research. Not all the "differences" that pot has on people's lives are positive ones. Cutting IQ by 6 points, interfering with cognitive functioning and short-term memory, and undermining success in school and life are strongly associated with marijuana consumption, especially among adolescents.

I have no interest in taking away anyones medical marijuana. We had a reasonable situation here in CA when "medical marijuana" was legal. Anyone who wanted one could get a prescription. No one went to jail for possession. The dispensaries were pretty well regulated (in the main). Not perfect, but tenable. A reasonable compromise.

Since the legalization of "recreational marijuana" we've had a very bad situation on our hands. Illegal businesses dwarf legal dispensaries and vape pens are being sold to minors, who are using in the schools at unprecedented rates and with terrible consequences.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,490 posts)
61. Don't insult me by telling me that marijuana is a gateway drug. Go to any legal medical
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:29 PM
Dec 2019

marijuana shop and many recreational shops and what you are mainly going to see is people over 60. People who are living vibrant healthier lives because they are able to get off deadly chemicals and control their illnesses with a plant that has no side effects like suicidal tendencies and other god awful problems. My bud tender knows as much about my health as my doctor does. And he spends more time discussing different strains and their effects on my body and my RA than my Dr does on pharmaceuticals.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
63. No one is denying your access to medical marijuana.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:35 PM
Dec 2019

Not me.

Please never insult me again in the fashion you did earlier. OK?

Seriously uncool and uncalled for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BannonsLiver

(17,027 posts)
66. Alcohol is the ultimate gateway drug
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:00 PM
Dec 2019

That and whatever can be found in the medicine cabinet in just about every home in America. But to the Reefer Madness crowd it’s the devil’s lettuce that is the problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #66)

Response to The Valley Below (Reply #60)

 

marble falls

(59,585 posts)
119. I so agree. No opiates for me, either. A couple of tooks works better for me and doesn't ...
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:59 PM
Dec 2019

interfere with living.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,365 posts)
78. Seriously!! Joe is COMPLETELY out of touch when it comes to his policies on marijuana.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:45 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
80. Quite to the contrary. His caution is prescient.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:08 AM
Dec 2019

Those who falsely claim that marijuana is entirely benign--especially when it comes to young people with minds that are not fully formed--are wrong and they will have a lot to answer for in the not-to-distant future.

Biden is way ahead of the curve. History will validate his approach.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

WA-03 Democrat

(3,199 posts)
102. Are we really just trying to prove a negative?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:07 PM
Dec 2019

I live and smoke daily in WA. There are no delivery services and the regulations keep minors out of dispensers keep minors out. My favorite shop got closed for a month the store when they accepted a false ID.

What Biden wants is more research. As a schedule 1 drug not research can occur. Biden would change it to a federal schedule 2 or 3 for research. He has said no change on the states rights on the issue. I see this as progress.

Let’s confirm our assumptions about safety. Testing by scientists sounds responsible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
114. Trust me, illegal delivery services here in CA that operate openly and that appear on Weedmaps...
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:53 PM
Dec 2019

are selling THC products to teenagers for cash. No joke.

Everyone knows what's going on here. The lion's share of the business (estimates are 3:1) is in illegal dispensaries and delivery services here in CA. And many criminal enterprises have no issues selling to kids. That's the truth of the matter.

Further study is well-warranted and Biden is on the right path with both rescheduling and calls for research.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

WA-03 Democrat

(3,199 posts)
116. No argument about CA
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:58 PM
Dec 2019

I lived in CA. You are right. The Deliveries should check your DL but there is no one watching them. Its all cash transactions by law. Hard to trace. In WA (the area I live in) it is flavored vapes (no thc) that the kids are using.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tritsofme

(17,833 posts)
10. This idea that certain candidates are entitled to success is puzzling.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:34 PM
Dec 2019

In a field of more than a dozen candidates, all but one will fail, and most will do poorly. This should not be surprising.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
12. Maybe they should pay more attention to the dignified campaign
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:37 PM
Dec 2019

President Obama ran. Obama never dealt the race card, even when it was used against him. As a senior, black, female voter, I don't believe Harris' problem is due to gender or race. I believe she doomed her campaign when she dealt that race card. Nobody wants to see a year of that nonsense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

R B Garr

(17,219 posts)
19. +++, thank you! Well said.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:45 PM
Dec 2019

It appears to have been a huge miscalculation on her part.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DarthDem

(5,318 posts)
26. Agreed
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:21 PM
Dec 2019

I agree with this. I thought her early focus on race - and weirdly deciding to attack Biden of all people about it - was misplaced. She would have been better served directing some of that vitriol at Republicans. Aiming it at a fellow Democrat and Obama's vice president just came off as desperate. I'm not sure of the causal connection but her campaign certainly was all downhill after that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
93. "Race card?" Seriously? There's no such thing.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:19 AM
Dec 2019

As Tim Wise said, if race is a card, it's the 2 of diamonds. When people on DU are using the term "race card," that's quite sad.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
95. That's your opinion and you can keep it. And..
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 07:16 AM
Dec 2019

When a person prefaces an attack with...'I don't believe you're racist....BUT! Uh yeah, that's a race card. I don't really care what Tim Wise has to say about that or anything else. I think for myself.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
103. If parroting a bogus Republican talking point is your idea of thinking for yourself...
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:14 PM
Dec 2019

...I don't know what to say.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
104. Strawman argument. Ask Tim Wise what to say and get back to me...
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:19 PM
Dec 2019
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a republican talking point.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
105. He said to tell you that you're on the wrong site. This isn't Republican Underground.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:21 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
106. I have been a DU member for over 15 years and a registered Democrat for 47 years.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:24 PM
Dec 2019

I'm quite sure I've been a Democrat longer than tim (if he is one).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ismnotwasm

(42,212 posts)
15. It's not just Democrats
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:41 PM
Dec 2019

It illustrates that there IS A RACE PROBLEM AMERICA

You know what I’m tired of? People who say race isn’t a factor. Race is always a factor. Is it the only factor? Of course not. But denying it completely isn’t helpful

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
24. please
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:14 PM
Dec 2019

Let me know how the white men running in Iowa did in 08......

Harris lost on her merit. Not due to racism or sexism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ismnotwasm

(42,212 posts)
39. Race is always a factor
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:46 PM
Dec 2019

No, It’s not the only factor. It. Is always. A factor. It’s how we got Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
52. Russian active measures that used race to divide the party...
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:10 PM
Dec 2019

is how we got trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
68. Exactly. Would not be surprised if they are behind this new talking point also.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:57 PM
Dec 2019

They know race is the easiest way to divide people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
85. We didn't learn from 2016. To hear Cory Booker one minute infer that
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:56 AM
Dec 2019

Biden is an out of touch racist. The next minute acknowledge how we were divided in 2016. Then revert back to, Joe Biden being an out of touch racist because he opposes legal pot. Before that, what Harris did when she dealt that race card is inexcusable. Following that, her twitter KHive were calling Biden a racist. We didn't learn.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,504 posts)
75. James Comey did more damage than Vladimir Putin.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:19 AM
Dec 2019

The FBI's behavior in that election was insane. And totally illegitimate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
84. Comey did damage to be sure. However, I doubt he is responsible
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:50 AM
Dec 2019

for the russian interference that caused a steep decline in black voter turnout. Campaigns on the left and right used BLM to both suppress AA turnout and motivate white turnout. You can google that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,504 posts)
99. I didn't say he is responsible for the Russian interference.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:02 PM
Dec 2019

I said that his actions caused much more damage than the Russian interference did.

I think it is worth remembering that HRC's turnout among AA voters was about the same as John Kerry's, maybe a little bit higher than Kerry in states that have not instituted voter suppression laws since 2004. But because HRC had a strong campaign it is possible that she could have exceeded those levels by a wider margin had it not been for Vladimir Putin's lies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
100. If the 13%, or any part of that percent of black males who fell for the "super predators" smear..
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:34 PM
Dec 2019

Last edited Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)

and voted for trump instead of Hillary, she would have won. I doubt Comey made that much difference to AA voters. Yes Comey cost her valuable votes, but black males could have easily made up the 77k votes she lost to jill stein and trump. Easily.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,504 posts)
110. I agree that Comey's effect wasn't in suppresing the black vote.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:36 PM
Dec 2019

He affected swing voters that went from Clinton to Trump based on his smears of HRC. And I think there were a lot of them, contrary to what the media would have us believe.

Good point about the Super Predator lie. It is amazing that nobody seems to realize that this was never a thing back in the 1990s. There was never a point when this became an issue, or a criticism of her, back when she actually said it. Because there was no substance to the attack. It could only work as an argument years later when take out of context and twisted around beyond recognition.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
71. Still waiting
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 10:12 PM
Dec 2019

For you to tell me how the multiple white men running did in Iowa in 2008.....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sapient Donkey

(1,568 posts)
88. Even though Harris wasn't my preferred candidate, I spent a fair amount of time/effort
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:21 AM
Dec 2019

arguing with people online (mostly twitter) who were going after her with what I viewed as ridiculous arguments and premises. Bad illogical arguments/attacks from people bothers me. Particularly when I don't think they are being made in good faith. Anyway, a lot of the people I faced off against were African Americans. Of course not all of her critics were African American, and I am sure some could have even been trolls (and perhaps even bots, but I can usually avoid the bots), but a lot of them were and still are out there saying the same stuff. Either way, a lot of her detractors with both fair and unfair criticism were African American from what I've seen. I also think the polls support this impression if I recall correctly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

awesomerwb1

(4,327 posts)
45. What do the polls say
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:57 PM
Dec 2019

about black, Hispanic support for Harris? Very low.

Not about race. That they like Biden and others better than her is more about her campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
47. I would say specifically that it's white supremacy
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:02 PM
Dec 2019

A belief the there is inherent superiority that comes with whiteness is more consequential and pervasive than Trump, the KKK, and the kinds of hate people tend to associate with the term. It is the state of the US, and it is embedded in the willingness of Democrats to accept opinions and histories that should not be considered acceptable to people who believe racism is a problematic disposition. Harris was in a very tough spot. Her association with the criminal justice system runs counter to a truly anti-racist position. I have friends who are black who refuse to ever support a person who made a living or gained success in a system that has shamelessly exploited people who they care about. It's a boundery they drew and it so happens that there are many people of color who would have liked to support her see a problem. If she is going to have difficulty building support from a key demographic her chances of winning the general election decrease. Obama was running before much of this was beginning to be understood. The New Jim Crow was published in 2013. The movie Thirteenth was released in Oct. of 2016. I don't know if there is evidence that it contributed, but my speculation is that it is possible that it may have been a factor in the lower voter turnout. Currently, I think we have a situation where Black voters are not going to make that mistake again and they are also well aware of the fact that fewer white supremacists are persuadable. This is indeed a Democratic party problem and we should have the guts to about it.
One quote about Clarence Thomas that I heard recently in reference to a high tech lynching was that the fact that he was black was actually "the only thing they liked about him." Obviously, it hasn't stopped him from supporting white supremacy at every opportunity. So, we are stuck hoping to get a candidate who will least offend people who are willing to accept an unabashed white supremacist voter. It's a very real issue and I think we should talk about it honestly and I also know it means getting through a backlash of white fragility.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
28. I think Harris sunk herself when
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:24 PM
Dec 2019

she went after Biden over busing. It seemed cold hearted and way too calculated. It's a 40 year old issue that no one cares about anymore.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FreeState

(10,624 posts)
33. I think that was part of it
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:37 PM
Dec 2019

Edit - wow topic switch in my typing...

I think she also did a poor job selling herself in her home state and in the initial debates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OhZone

(3,215 posts)
34. Exactly -
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:38 PM
Dec 2019

Especially when it turned out she had pretty much the same view as Biden.

Cold hearted and calculating aint the Dem way.

We can be warm hearted and calculating.

ha.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
50. We're Dems. Playing the race card with our own is the fastest way to..
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:08 PM
Dec 2019

run a losing campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
94. She actually got a boost after that. And it's because people *do* care about it.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:20 AM
Dec 2019

Biden is out of touch.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
96. She got an initial boost because
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:18 AM
Dec 2019

she got higher news coverage and name recognition but that faded quickly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,147 posts)
107. Apparently at this time he's more in touch with a larger number of voters than the other
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:42 PM
Dec 2019

candidates. But three years ago, Biden was MVP in what many consider the best presidential administration in our lifetimes, because it was Obama’s administration. Was that administration out of touch?

Biden is very much in touch with the majority of our party. He is in touch with our base, AA voters, obviously more so than Sanders, Warren, or Buttigieg.

Sure, our party majority, our base could embrace progressive candidates and their agenda in greater numbers or go with Buttigieg. Or a second or third tier candidate could soar and overtake Biden’s lead. Even so, Biden will remain an influential voice in our party, the candidate world leaders wanted to run as of a year ago, and the only candidate as in touch as he is with that big world outside America most progressives seem to ignore. Maybe you missed his op-Ed on Central America, an analysis of the failed U.S. government policies that have contributed to the humanitarian crisis at our borders. And you missed his foreign policy speech which reflected his grasp of major geopolitical issues in today’s world his rivals are not even conversant about, much less experienced in handling.

His unifying message and framing of the fight for the 2020 election as a “struggle for the soul of America” has resonated strongly enough to put him in a lead he has maintained for nearly a year.

In fact, other candidates have since echoed his unity theme though that too was at first considered
a gesture of retrograde appeasement.

He’s been way out front in identifying what’s at stake in 2020–our democracy. Timeless, that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/07/joe-biden-reminded-all-us-what-presidential-president-would-sound-like/


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/20/biden-2020-foreign-policy-national-security-1228345

Oh, but the pot thing.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Raven123

(5,472 posts)
48. Oh my, the Dems have a problem? Must be Tuesday
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:04 PM
Dec 2019

Since the majority of candidates who run, will not become president, there is a need for the press to pick and pluck at what they see as THE issue. In reality, I think there are likely multiple factors at play. In a large field, one has to find a way to make himself/herself stand out. That is not always easy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
53. too fucking bad. we have systematic issues that need answers.
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:12 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Iggo

(47,822 posts)
67. I know! It's been nearly a whole day!
Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:21 PM
Dec 2019

I'm pooped!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

regnaD kciN

(26,239 posts)
86. BULLETIN: Not all candidates in a race can win!
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:02 AM
Dec 2019

I know I’ll probably get the “OK Boomer” treatment from some, but I remember the good old days when, if a candidate wound up dropping out of a race that he or she determined they couldn’t win, the basic assumption was that there had been a problem with the campaign, that for some reason they either chose an ineffective message or weren’t able to communicate an effective one well. In short, that the problem was with the candidate or their campaign. Now, it seems to be “proof” that the problem is with the party’s voters instead.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(45,306 posts)
92. You have a strange definition of surging
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:18 AM
Dec 2019

Starting with the latest and working back in time, Klobuchar's last polls on RCP are 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 5, 1, 6, 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 6, 5 , 3, 2, 1.

If you removed next door IA polls, she would not even be in the upcoming December debate.

I really like her, and if it was down to 6 left

My order of preference would be

Buttigieg
Klobuchar
Biden (who is probably going to be our nominee)
Warren
Bloomberg
Sanders

But I would not say she is surging as of now. There is still time though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,504 posts)
109. Mayor Pete gradually worked his way up to the top of my list.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:32 PM
Dec 2019

I didn't care too much for him at first, but he has worked hard and he has won me over.

And I think he has an excellent shot of winning the nomination. If he can win Iowa and New Hampshire that that might propel him to victory in Nevada. And that might allow him to perform respectably in South Carolina and Super Tuesday. He could very well emerge victorious.

I am not a fan of Amy Klobuchar at all. She favors tying foreign aid to a country's willingness to allow Americans the right to adopt from their countries. I think that is a horrible idea.

I guess my list would go like this:

Buttigieg
Biden
Warren

I am thinking that Kamala Harris would be a good running mate for Mayor Pete.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(45,306 posts)
111. I agree that a 3 initial straight run (IA, NH, NV) is probably Buttigieg's only real shot at winning
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:39 PM
Dec 2019

as it will help him massively on Super Tuesday (or should)

I did not know that adoption thing about Klobuchar.

My VP choice for Both Pete and Biden has been (for 10 months) Stacey Abrams.

She puts more states into play than Harris, and is a force of nature as a speaker.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StevieM

(10,504 posts)
112. I like Stacey Abrams a lot too.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:48 PM
Dec 2019

I was just talking about her with my family over Thanksgiving. We all agreed that whoever the Democratic nominee is should strongly consider her as a running-mate.

I think Mayor Pete might benefit from having a U.S. Senator on the ticket, although I agree that it is not required. Abrams is an option for him.

What I like most about Harris is the image of her destroying Mike Pence in a debate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(45,306 posts)
117. +100000
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:06 PM
Dec 2019

My main concern (obviously) is Pete's systemic trouble with my fellow black voters. In that category, I think Abrams would edge Harris as well, as part of Harris's problems (I have seen a lot of interviews with people of colour say this) is that she is perceived as a 'cop' due to her DA and AG background. I am not sure how much weight to give to that, as Biden is massively up over all others in terms of black voter support, and he was far more draconian for decades as a Senator (super drug warrior, a major force for 'lock 'em up and toss away the key' crime bills) than she was.

I also have to say, I think Abrams would smash Pence even more than Harris (as a debate is not a quasi-legal proceeding wherein Harris would CRUSH him) as she (Abrams) can be truly withering is her critiques and carries a truly righteous sense of purpose against the bigotry, racism, and hate that Pence represents.

Abrams and Buttigieg are the two most impressive (in completely divergent ways too) of the new-to-the-national-stage political speakers I have seen since Obama.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OregonBlue

(7,779 posts)
101. Truthfully it's not a race issue with me but a simple matter of not being inspired by either
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:52 PM
Dec 2019

candidate. They are both good, smart, serious Dems. Harris waffled too much and there is something about Booker that bothers me. I don't even know what it is but it has nothing to do with race.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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