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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:18 AM

 

Boston Globe: Biden was the Admiral Stockdale of this debate

Former vice president Joe Biden

Grade: D

Biden was the Admiral Stockdale of this debate: who is he and what is he doing here?

Who he is, of course, is the national Democratic frontrunner and the former vice president. But he ended up being a total non-factor in this debate and did nothing to stop the bleeding on his early state poll numbers or his campaign cash.

Biden constantly makes the argument he is the best Democrat to be on the debate stage with Donald Trump. However, he has yet to have a good debate, and in every debate he said something that was just weird, or he had a bad moment.

In Wednesday night’s debate, he was unsteady. He said he had the endorsement of the only African-American woman who was ever elected to the Senate. But there was a second African-American woman elected to the Senate — Kamala Harris — and she was standing on the stage with him.

Then there was his repeated use of the word “punching” when speaking about domestic violence.

Yikes.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2019/11/20/scorecard-grading-debate-performance-democratic-candidates/AFNnlHviWCbvGzoOdp0CmM/story.html?s_campaign=breakingnews:newsletter
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply Boston Globe: Biden was the Admiral Stockdale of this debate (Original post)
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 OP
JoeOtterbein Nov 2019 #1
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #29
boomer_wv Nov 2019 #71
George II Nov 2019 #81
emulatorloo Nov 2019 #102
Hortensis Nov 2019 #91
Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #2
LanternWaste Nov 2019 #53
NRaleighLiberal Nov 2019 #3
hedda_foil Nov 2019 #4
NRaleighLiberal Nov 2019 #6
BlueMTexpat Nov 2019 #24
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #30
BlueMTexpat Nov 2019 #60
Bradshaw3 Nov 2019 #5
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #31
Gothmog Nov 2019 #65
treestar Nov 2019 #78
TexasTowelie Nov 2019 #7
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #10
Merlot Nov 2019 #13
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #14
torius Nov 2019 #15
C_U_L8R Nov 2019 #26
The Blue Flower Nov 2019 #27
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #32
Hav Nov 2019 #48
Green Line Nov 2019 #8
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #12
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #33
redqueen Nov 2019 #36
Hav Nov 2019 #51
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #70
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #43
The Valley Below Nov 2019 #9
TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #23
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #44
TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #46
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #54
TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #55
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #58
DavidDvorkin Nov 2019 #11
stonecutter357 Nov 2019 #16
Lizzie Boredom Nov 2019 #17
WePurrsevere Nov 2019 #20
TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #22
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #35
mcar Nov 2019 #25
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #45
Lizzie Boredom Nov 2019 #62
mcar Nov 2019 #64
Lizzie Boredom Nov 2019 #90
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #94
Lizzie Boredom Nov 2019 #95
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #99
Lizzie Boredom Nov 2019 #106
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #107
treestar Nov 2019 #105
tonedevil Nov 2019 #98
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #100
treestar Nov 2019 #104
R B Garr Nov 2019 #40
treestar Nov 2019 #79
Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2019 #80
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #93
R B Garr Nov 2019 #97
Raine Nov 2019 #18
Eugene Nov 2019 #19
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #37
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #52
TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #21
ritapria Nov 2019 #28
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #38
cwydro Nov 2019 #34
Alex Blaine Layder Nov 2019 #39
cwydro Nov 2019 #41
highplainsdem Nov 2019 #42
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #47
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #49
The Valley Below Nov 2019 #72
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #73
The Valley Below Nov 2019 #75
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #77
myohmy2 Nov 2019 #50
earthside Nov 2019 #56
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #74
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #57
Unclephil Nov 2019 #59
brooklynite Nov 2019 #61
Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #76
Gothmog Nov 2019 #63
UniteFightBack Nov 2019 #66
Calof Nov 2019 #67
Gothmog Nov 2019 #68
MustLoveBeagles Nov 2019 #69
Gothmog Nov 2019 #82
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #83
The Valley Below Nov 2019 #84
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #85
Gothmog Nov 2019 #87
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #89
The Valley Below Nov 2019 #88
Gothmog Nov 2019 #86
Gothmog Nov 2019 #92
BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #96
Gothmog Nov 2019 #103
tirebiter Nov 2019 #101
Gothmog Nov 2019 #108

Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:20 AM

1. K n R

 

Sad.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:44 AM

29. It IS kinda sad Joe... I think what we saw was the beginning of the end of the Biden campaign.

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:08 AM

71. It's almost as bad as if he'd written...

 

something like this

A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy. A woman on her knees, a woman tied up, a woman abused.

A woman enjoys intercourse with her man — as she fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously.


Of course, we all know who actually wrote this. Right?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 01:58 PM

81. You said that a couple of weeks ago, then Biden surged. Please keep saying it! Thanks.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #29)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 01:58 PM

102. 'This will finally finish Joe Biden, trust me!'

 

Pundits have been saying that for months. Yet it still hasn’t happened.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 23, 2019, 12:58 PM

91. I guess. Beyond COULD have posted someone with the opposite take.

 

In November the fate of our nation will be determined by a narrow margin -- if it wasn't already in 2014 or 2016. We don't know if we've already had our last genuine election yet. But assuming we didn't, I think it's way past time to realize what's at stake and commit to winning.

Trump, rising fascism and white nationalism, beginnings of ethnic cleansing, massive transfer of wealth and power away from the people, end of progressivism and liberalism in government. And so much more.

That doesn't mean supporting Biden, it means refusing any behavior that would help the Republicans and Russia to try to bring him down. Because he's currently still our top choice and we have to protect our best chance, whoever it is.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:21 AM

2. Yep. Unfortunately.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:20 AM

53. Nope. Fortunately.

 

(six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each as without merit as the other)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:23 AM

3. It is the first debate I mostly watched (laptop, WA Post website) - I thought Biden

 

was in the lower tier as to outcome - Gabbard absolutely worst, then Steyer - then Biden.

Klobuchar, Pete, Kamala, Yang, Booker, Sanders, Harris, and Warren the winners and all pretty close to each other.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:29 AM

4. You skipped Warren entire.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:34 AM

6. sorry - tired! - I edited to add Warren in with the larger group. I didn't think she stood out

 

tonight. Booker and Klobuchar and Yang really threw it out there tonight, I thought, but I am still currently a Warren supporter and don't see changing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 07:56 AM

24. I don't see myself

 

EVER changing in the primaries.

To me, she is far and away the best of the candidates we have. Time will tell whether a majority of primary voters concur with me.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:46 AM

30. Love Elizabeth too!! Currently my #2... but I could easily see voting for her

 

as Elizabeth is clearly the most competent candidate in the group... maybe the most competent Democratic candidate ever!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:23 PM

60. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:33 AM

5. So we've had what four debates now

 

And Biden has been either bad or mediocre in all of them? Not a good sign for debating in the GE.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:48 AM

31. I have to agree with you there!! I think Joe is done... too many gaffes.

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 08:17 PM

65. What Joe Biden Can't Bring Himself to Say

 

I was a stutter until about 4th grade. I find these attacks on Biden to be sad. This article about Joe's stuttering really hit home with me. The discussion of the movie The King's Speech was very moving for me.



In Biden’s office, the first time I bring up his current stuttering, he asks me whether I’ve seen The King’s Speech. He speaks almost mystically about the award-winning 2010 film. “When King George VI, when he stood up in 1939, everyone knew he stuttered, and they knew what courage it took for him to stand up at that stadium and try to speak—and it gave them courage … I could feel that. It was that sinking feeling, like—oh my God, I remember how you felt. You feel like, I don’t know … almost like you’re being sucked into a black hole.”

Presidential candidates usually don’t speak about their bleakest moments, certainly not this viscerally. It resembles the way Biden writes in his memoir about the aftermath of the 1972 car accident that killed his first wife and young daughter and critically injured his two sons, Beau and Hunter: “I could not speak, only felt this hollow core grow in my chest, like I was going to be sucked inside a black hole.”

A few weeks later, I ask Jill Biden what she remembers about sitting next to her husband during the movie. “It was one of those moments in a marriage where you just sort of understand without words being spoken,” she says.

As he watched The King’s Speech, Biden accurately guessed that the screenwriter, David Seidler, was a stutterer. “He showed me a copy of a speech they found in an attic that the king had actually used, where he marks his—it’s exactly what I do!” Biden tells me, his voice lifting. “My staff, when I have them put something on a prompter—I wish I had something to show you.”

I agree with Joe that it would be difficult for trump to use Joe's stutter against him
In Biden’s office, as my time is about to run out, I bring up the fact that Trump crudely mocked a disabled New York Times reporter during the 2016 campaign. “So far, he’s called you ‘Sleepy Joe.’ Is ‘St-St-St-Stuttering Joe’ next?”

“I don’t think so,” Biden says, “because if you ask the polls ‘Does Biden stutter? Has he ever stuttered?,’ you’d have 80 to 95 percent of people say no.” If Trump goes there, Biden adds, “it’ll just expose him for what he is.”

I ask Biden something else we’ve been circling: whether he worries that people would pity him if they thought he still stuttered.

He scratches his chin, his fingers trembling slightly. “Well, I guess, um, it’s kind of hard to pity a vice president. It’s kind of hard to pity a senator who’s gotten six zillion awards. It’s kind of hard to pity someone who has had, you know, a decent family. I-I-I-I don’t think if, now, if someone sits and says, ‘Well, you know, the kid, when he was a stutterer, he must have been really basically stupid,’ I-I-I don’t think it’s hard to—I’ve never thought of that. I mean, there’s nobody in the last, I don’t know, 55 years, has ever said anything like that to me.”

This is an issue that I have strong feelings about.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:43 PM

78. Why?

 

The debates only count for so much, especially in the primaries.

You don't really think the Dotard is going to do well in the debates, do you?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:35 AM

7. They gave Klobuchar an A-.

 

She was clearly trembling throughout the debate and while she gave good answers, it is difficult to put her up at the top. I disagree with most of the rankings on most of the Boston Globe's scorecard.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:38 AM

10. Agree on the trembling

 

I’m surprised more people haven’t picked up on that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:26 AM

13. She sounded to me like she was about to cry

 

I wasn't sure if it were just an accent, or distinct way of speaking. I didn't see it as coming from nervousness.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Merlot (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:30 AM

14. Seems a lot of people noticed

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:34 AM

15. I thought a fan was blowing on her hair

 

Making it look like she was shaking, but it seemed to only be on the front of her hair. Not sure though. Her voice sounded fine.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:33 AM

26. Seemed more neurological than nervous.

 

Not wanting to guess but something is very visible. Has she said anything about it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:38 AM

27. It looked like a tremor to me

 

But I don't see it this morning on Morning Joe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:50 AM

32. I would give AK a B-... a solid B had it not been for the trembling.

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:11 AM

48. I wondered what it was

 

Was it really trembling? I thought it was only because of that part of the hair above her left eye in that unstable position moving more because of how it was styled. That's the only thing I noticed as it was a bit distracting.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:37 AM

8. The Globe is constantly anti Biden

 

I have a subscription, they post Warren puff pieces every day.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Green Line (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:10 AM

12. So is Essence, I guess

 

See Joe Biden, who struggled immediately to sustain basic coherence when answering a question. I know many of your elder kin love this man because he’s friends with Barack Obama, but seriously, enough. Donald Trump is a damn fool, but he is a lot quicker than this man. See Biden responding to a question about male violence against women with the following tone deaf comment: “We have to keep punching at it, and punching at it, and punching at it.”

Or that odd comment he made about coming out of the Black community. He tripped over his words, which is not exactly a new hobby of Biden, but one that’s worsening with time. His stumbles only increased as time went on in this debate. That’s why I laugh at Biden’s claims that Trump’s Ukraine scandal serves a testament to the assertion that he is the most formidable Democrat seeking the nomination. Someone needs to stop confusing an easy target with being the hardest to defeat.

If they really wanted to scare Trump, they’d nominate a woman. But to his point, he does command a huge portion of the Black vote so we may be stuck with him. Please convince your relatives next week to save me from this. Since the Democratic establishment, in all its continued uselessness, can’t.

https://www.essence.com/articles/atlanta-democratic-debates/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:53 AM

33. That comment Joe made about coming out of the black community was stunning!!

 

Another day, another gaffe... oh well.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:56 AM

36. Ouch nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:15 AM

51. Biden had a bad night and he looked tired the whole time

 

except for the end of his closing statement.
He could have worded many things better but he said that he's coming out of the Black community in terms of his support which is true. Far from the best way to put it but this is one of the points taken out of context and blown up unfairly.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hav (Reply #51)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:04 AM

70. Yes, by far Joe's worst debate performance.

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Green Line (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 10:58 AM

43. More Warren supporters in the media...they obviously didn't watch the same debate I did...I thought

 

she was weak last night...and Biden had the best closing statement.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:37 AM

9. Good lord.

 

Biden is pulling away and those left in the dust think it is a good idea to crap on the clear leader of the party.

Insane!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 07:03 AM

23. Biden isn't the leader of the party.

 

He isn’t even an elected official nor does he hold any prominent role.

Chances are pretty good that he will be the leader of the party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TidalWave46 (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 10:59 AM

44. Sliming the probable nominee is a bad idea unless you want four more years of Trump.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:03 AM

46. Don't agree with you about the Trump part....

 

But I do agree that "sliming" the probable nominee is a bad idea.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TidalWave46 (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:25 AM

54. Most polls show Trump above 40%. He has to win three states...WI, MI and PA.

 

He could do it. And we simply must not allow this to happen.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:31 AM

55. I don't think we will "allow" it to happen.

 

We have an excellent field of contenders. The front runner is solid and very little is moving his numbers. If that holds he will be in excellent shape. A start to finish lead is a great thing. In the end the winner of our primary is going to eliminate Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TidalWave46 (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:56 AM

58. I agree...we have great candidates...and in any other election, I would not worry so much. But

 

not all of them will win a GE...Biden can win the Mid West and help with the Senate...I see no other candidate who will do this. And they are fine people. I would vote for any of them...but where we need the votes is problematic. Biden is our best shot.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 01:56 AM

11. That's absurd

 

He did okay.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:34 AM

16. good let's go Joe !

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 03:06 AM

17. Senator Harris' mother is Indian and her father Jamaican

 

How does that make her African?

Also, Kamala is a Hindu name. I'm no supporter of Biden's, but on this point (African-American Senator) he was not wrong.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 06:55 AM

20. Boston Globe was revealing their own bias & assumptions...

 

You, OTOH, are correct and welcome to DU.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 07:01 AM

22. For the most part, the term AA has morphed into something much larger.

 

It’s about how society views someone when they walk out their front door. I find it to be fully acceptable as the term has always had a life of its own.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TidalWave46 (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:55 AM

35. Agree with you there.

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:28 AM

25. Yeah, like how Barack Obama isn't really

 

a black American bc his mother was white and father was African, right?

I remember certain groups making that absurd claim once upon a time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:01 AM

45. Obama's father was born in Africa...Apparently which I didn't know as I could care a less...

 

Kamala's has Indian and Jamaican parents...and a big who cares.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 07:31 PM

62. Non sequitur

 

Your post is not really worthy of a reply since you claim something that's in no way possible to infer from my post.

Obama is absolutely black. So is Harris, if she identifies as such. But she is not African. African is not synonymous with black, and African is no more an ethnicity than "American" is. These points are self-evident and shouldn't even have to be made, unless one is willfully obtuse.

Enough with the semantics. The main point is, Biden was right. And anyone claiming otherwise is just being disingenuous and playing politics.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 08:09 PM

64. Many Jamaicans came to that island as African slaves

 

So she has the right to self-identify as African American or black. I don't think it is appropriate for anyone else to make that judgment for her.
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Response to mcar (Reply #64)

Sat Nov 23, 2019, 04:38 AM

90. Harris' ancestors weren't slaves

 

She's a descendant on her father's side of an Irish slave owner who moved to Jamaica and founded a town there. He owned scores of slaves, but most of them Creole and not African. This according to Harris' own dad, who has Irish ancestry on both his maternal and paternal side. So, even calling Kamala Harris Irish-American is more correct than African-American. Having a little more melanin in your complexion than whites isn't enough to make you African. Having relatively immediate African ancestry makes you African. Otherwise the whole world is African, since humanity originated there.

The seeming obsession here with making everyone with a darker shade than a white sheet out to be African is a bit weird, and frankly insulting to people of color who are not African. Last I heard, Senator Harris identifies as Indian-American. If she also identifies as African-American, nobody is hurt by it for sure. But why isn't it appropriate to question? If I identify as a banana, will you blindly accept it without proof?

The point is, again, that Biden was right, and this whole thing is a complete non-story and just a politically motivated attack.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #90)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 02:00 AM

94. Telling a black woman how she should identify herself is beneath Democrats. Leave the whitesplaining

 

to bigots and Republicans.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #94)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 02:53 AM

95. Who's doing that?

 

And what do you know about my ethnicity to assume I'm whitesplaining?

Senator Harris is seemingly quite proud of her Indian heritage, having spoken about it many times. If she also identifies as African, did she object when Biden spoke about the only African-American senator?

In fact, has she spoken at all about being African? I find instances of her speaking about blackness and being black, but not claiming to be African-American. Can you point me to one such instance please? Or are you trying to ascribe something to her that she's not even claiming herself, just because you too conflate "African" and "black"? Seems a bit whitesplainy to me if so.
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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #95)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 01:39 PM

99. You are

 

And then you doubled down and did it again in greater detail in case anyone missed it the first time.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #99)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 04:48 PM

106. So, no answers to my questions, then

 

You just assume Senator Harris' ethnicity for her because it fits your narrative. How respectful of you to 'splain the "facts".
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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #106)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 05:00 PM

107. You're mighty confrontational for one here only 4 days and just eeking past a single-digit postcount

 

Harris' ethnicity is obviously something you feel very strongly about.
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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #95)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 03:53 PM

105. She was the little girl Biden tried to stop busing

 

though I suppose black people were not the only minorities, but busing seemed to mainly be about improving education for black children.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #94)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 01:36 PM

98. I wish you were correct...

 

about how low Democrats might go, but several threads on this board show me your hope is optimistic.
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Undecided

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #98)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 01:39 PM

100. Indeed

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #90)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 03:52 PM

104. How many generations?

 

She could still have a lot of African ancestry if the Irishman married a black woman and so on down the line.
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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 10:08 AM

40. +1. Not to mention that she didn't become Senator until 2016, after Obama/Biden

 

left office in 2016. Obviously Biden wasn't talking about her nor did he omit her since she wasn't there at the time anyway.
It's absurd she made that about herself.
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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:46 PM

79. This one does not float - Jamaica is like 98% black

 

and their ancestors come from Africa. The USA is not the only country in the Americas with a history of slavery. The Caribbean has tons of black people and they are all AA.
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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 01:01 PM

80. Wow. You might want to walk that back.

 

If you are making a claim that Harris isn't African-American because her most recent ancestor comes from Jamaica, that sounds horrible.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Lizzie Boredom (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 01:56 AM

93. Wow. That's a ridiculous claim

 

Even Biden doesn't believe that.

"I said FIRST! I said FIRST African-American female senator!"

Biden made a mistake. Why are Biden supporters twisting themselves into knots pretending he didn't? It only makes the supporters look silly and it doesn't make their candidate look very strong if he needs that kind of defense.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #93)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 11:48 AM

97. Why are you twisting into knots by trying to change what

 

he said. I didn’t see him changing what he said because he didn’t need to. He added a polite addendum but what he said was correct. Harris and Cory were ready to pounce since they wanted to diminish his support with African American voters.

He was honoring CMB by saying she had been the first AA female Senator.

She had been the only elected Senator means
she was the first Senator. It doesn’t mean she was the only Senator. He didn’t correct himself out of error because he wasn’t wrong.

If you have to browbeat people with these biased interpretations, it means there wasn’t much there to begin with.

I’m more disgusted with Harris for making a nice tribute to CMB about herself in a mistaken way. Now we are reminded that Biden swore Harris in as an Indian-American, so he wasn’t wrong.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 05:30 AM

18. Biden isn't my pick but

 

I think that's really harsh, I thought he held his own.
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Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 05:31 AM

19. I remember the 1992 Food Fight Debate and Joe Biden is no James Stockdale.

 

Yes, Joe Biden made a jaw dropping gaffe, but we know what he was trying to say. It's not a big f---ing deal.
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Response to Eugene (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:57 AM

37. No, not a big deal... but it is an indication that Joe has trouble expressing his thoughts.

 

I just don't think Joe is the best candidate to take on tRumpty Dumbpty.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Undecided

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Response to Eugene (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:17 AM

52. Again...perhaps you need to read up on Stockdale...as a Navy Brat, I know the man is a hero...so

 

so please stop with this. You could put the entire staff of the Boston Globe in a room and they are not worth one hair on Admiral Stockdale's head...he was a fine man and a credit to the Navy and our country. Biden should wear the comparison as a badge of honor.

"When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.[12] During the course of his captivity, due to torture, his leg was broken twice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 06:58 AM

21. Seeing they gave Klobuchar an A- tell me this piece is bunk.

 

Klobuchar is one of my favorites but on appearance she absolutely bombed. This author is smoking the good shit.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:41 AM

28. Biden had some shaky moments but

 

The voters don't seem to give a shit ……….His standing in the national polls seems solid …...As a Bernie supporter I wish Joe's numbers would fall but it doesn't seems like it's going to happen …….These debates have had little effect on voter preferences because there are too many people on stage …..No one is getting enough time to stand out from the crowd ….. Will we ever have debate with just the Top 6 or 7 candidates ? …. For example , I've heard enough from Steyer and Gabbard ...Please Go Guys
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Response to ritapria (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:59 AM

38. I agree... it's way past time to jettison the second and third tier candidates from the debate stage

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:55 AM

34. I hit a paywall when I went to read it.

 

Darn.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 10:07 AM

39. fake email gets through

 

what i hit was a demand for an email subscription. "bub@schlub.net" got me past that.
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Response to Alex Blaine Layder (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 10:49 AM

41. Hey, good idea!

 

I’m paranoid about that though; i think my computer knows everything about me.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 10:50 AM

42. BS.

 

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:08 AM

47. I would also add that no matter what...party or no party...Admiral Stockdale was a war hero who was

 

viciously tortured by the enemy so I find the Boston Globe is attacking not only Biden but the Admiral as well and it makes me sick to see this fine man attacked like this. And Biden did not appear like the Admiral...anyway.

But you know what anyone who attacks a war hero who was tortured and injured for serving his country can pound sand for all I care...disgusting. My Dad served in the Navy and so did my Mom-an officer and a nurse who served proudly...I was born at Great Lakes...My Dad was a medic attached to a marine unit during Korea and Vietnam ( I was born late in his life)...He was the greatest man I ever knew (except my husband who is amazing and my son ditto). I don't take kindly to those those who attack American heroes...for shame Boston Globe. you just demonstrated how much you suck and you do Warren no favors IMHO.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:11 AM

49. Fuck you Boston Globe and I am sure Biden will be proud to be compared to an American hero like

 

Stockdale...

"When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.[12] During the course of his captivity, due to torture, his leg was broken twice."

In closing, fuck you again Boston Globe. For shame.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 01:25 AM

72. I did not know these things about Admiral Stockdale.

 

What a badass. Respect. And thanks for sharing.



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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #72)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:23 PM

73. Every navy brat has heard of Admiral Stockdale...and the person who wrote this article

 

and the Boston Globe are a disgrace. Fuck them all. And thanks! The man saved the lives of other prisoners too...he is an American hero and should not be treated in this manner. I would have deleted the OP if I could.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #73)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:30 PM

75. I read up more about Admiral Stockdale after reading your post.

 

I must admit my previous ignorance of the man, and how--as with many--he was defined my "the moment" in my mind.

I now see that caricature is grossly unfair. He was a man of intellect and honor.

My sincere thanks for helping raise my consciousness.
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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:36 PM

77. Thank you for taking the time to read about this American hero...he deserves better than to

 

be held up as an object of ridicule by the Boston Glob and some here. I would bet Joe knows the truth and will say he is proud but not worthy to be compared to this great man who was well loved by the troops.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:11 AM

50. I don't know...

 

...Joe's a great guy but is he the right guy right now?

...Joe's proclivity to gaffe and step on his own message is problematic to say the least...as the nominee, it will be our message...

...we've got a war ahead of us with trump and the republicans and I'm not sure Joe's up to the task...

...yes, I'm a Bernie supporter and I'm biased but nonetheless, it's something to think about and consider...

...we've got a lot riding on 2020...
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:35 AM

56. It is true.

 

I feel for Joe Biden ... the presidency is something he has aspired to probably for most of his life.

But time has run out, just as it does for all of us human beings.
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Response to earthside (Reply #56)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:24 PM

74. It just sucks being the front runner and all...oh well I guess those in the single digits are the

 

lucky ones...
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 11:37 AM

57. Every time I read the title of this thread, it makes me sick. Again He was a hero...just horrible.

 

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 12:19 PM

59. Every candidates has certain negative factors

 

Warren- Harvard, academia, Massachusetts- you couldn't draw up a candidate that the GOP would want to run against more- She defines every negative possible.

Bernie- Negative from multiple ways. He is a bit condescending and hits every negative of an ethnic new yorker.

Biden- long in the tooth

Harris- California

Klobachar wonderfully bright but just a dull.

Pete- 38

Just think who has the best chance in PA, WN and MN
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:26 PM

61. BASHING!!!

 

At least, that's what I was told posting anything negative about Biden would be...
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Response to brooklynite (Reply #61)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 12:31 PM

76. I think you are talking about my post...and I said posting multiple nasty articles about Biden was

 

bashing and it is...why not post positive articles about Mayor Pete? It is very likely that Biden will be the nominee, and we should not give the GOP ammunition against him. Please note, while I opine about election chances IE who can win, I post about issues (not a fan of M4A). Also, I post positive articles about Biden, I do not post negative articles about other candidates...I did once or twice after the first debate (Kamala Harris) and I regret this. We need to consider that one of these folks will be our nominee.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 07:48 PM

63. @JoeBiden 's Support Increases Post Debate According to new 538/ @Ipsos Poll

 


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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 08:33 PM

66. Sorry he's not losing as much support as you would like but I saw his town hall and he kicked

 

fucking ass.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 08:46 PM

67. Top Massachusetts newspaper criticizes Warren's main opponent

 

Didn't see that coming
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 08:52 PM

68. Eugene Robinson-"sounded authoritative in a way that showed his experience and his stature as Vice P

 


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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:06 PM

69. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 03:38 PM

82. "Stuttering can feel like a series of betrayals. Your body betrays you when it refuses to work in co

 


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Response to Gothmog (Reply #82)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 03:41 PM

83. I assume Joe had this problem in 2012 when he positively annihilated Paul Ryan in a debate

 

and nobody was talking about his stuttering afterward.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #83)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 03:48 PM

84. And watch closely when Biden annihilates Trump.

 

Joe doesn't use his super-powers on fellow Democrats.
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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #84)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 03:54 PM

85. I definitely think that's part of the problem

 

But he didn't have this issue in 2008 either when he was one of the best debaters in the D primary.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #85)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 03:59 PM

87. Joe has had this issue his entire life

 

Joe has worked very hard to overcome this issue
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #87)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 04:08 PM

89. It didn't get in the way of his debate performances

 

He's 77 years old, he's human and he is underperforming in these debates relative to what we've seen in the past. This isn't a plot to undermine Biden, it's a valid observation.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #85)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 04:00 PM

88. I don't recall Joe Biden trying to annihilate Barack Obama (or HRC)

 

Which is part of why he ended up as Vice President.

He shows fellow Democrats the respect they deserve and isn't looking to make cheap shots.

That makes him presidential. The American people see that clearly.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #83)

Fri Nov 22, 2019, 03:55 PM

86. Biden has been open about stuttering for a long time

 

Here is a 2010 episode of the View
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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #83)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 12:50 AM

92. Here are great comments by Joe Biden on this article

 


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Response to Gothmog (Reply #92)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 09:05 AM

96. This wasn't covered in-depth until now. Why?

 

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #96)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 03:25 PM

103. I knew about this back when Joe ran in 1988 and 2008

 

This has always been part of his bio. This has never been a secret
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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Sun Nov 24, 2019, 01:50 PM

101. Are there new numbers out?

 

Someone must feel threatened by Biden to throw this up again. Guess it didn't stick to the ceiling the first time.
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Response to tirebiter (Reply #101)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 06:50 PM

108. According to Nate Silver, Joe Biden leads in three of the first four states

 


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