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Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:02 AM

 

Will AOC Call Out Bernie Sander's Scapegoating of Immigrants?

Bernie Sanders has repeatedly pushed the right wing talking point of attacking open border advocates even though no Democratic candidate is in support of open borders. In sharp contrast, AOC has been to the left of even more liberal Democrats in pushing for liberalization and promoting mobility across borders. Indeed, AOC's victory was due to her large support from folks with immigrant backgrounds in her district. She has advocated for the abolition of ICE

AOC has been a great advocate for pushing against efforts to make immigration more difficult while Bernie has had a history of opposing efforts to liberalize immigration policies, which mirrors his blame of trade with China and Mexico for the ills faced by the American working class. The question is whether AOC will be called to defend Bernie's anti-immigration views, as well as regular denouncements of those who support "open border" policies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/06/democrats-immigration-midterms/563987/

Where Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Parts Ways With Bernie Sanders

By all accounts, Ocasio-Cortez sees things differently. While some on the center-left will allow for the possibility that “the Trump administration’s vision of allocating green cards based on likely labor market success rather than family connections has merit,” as Matthew Yglesias recently argued in Vox, Ocasio-Cortez is unlikely to champion a more selective approach to admissions, if for no other reason than that her congressional district is dominated by immigrant-headed households, most of them working class. To many on the left, the notion of a more “merit-based” immigration system, to use Trump’s favored locution, implies that the existing system with its heavy emphasis on family admissions rewards immigrants lacking in merit—an implication that many of the naturalized citizens residing in Ocasio-Cortez’s constituency would surely resent.

Notably, Bernie Sanders, who is by far the most influential democratic socialist on the national political scene, and whose presidential candidacy played a central role in Ocasio-Cortez’s rise, is more ambivalent about mass immigration. Back in 2007, Sanders denounced the McCain-Kennedy comprehensive immigration legislation, partly on the grounds that it would have expanded low-wage guest-worker programs. Through strongly in favor of a large-scale amnesty, he has expressed deep skepticism about the wisdom of (in his words) open borders, describing the idea as “a Koch brothers proposal” in an interview with Vox. Needless to say, Sanders did not mean this as a compliment. And while many of his disciples have rallied around the cause of abolishing ice—something that could mean anything from renaming the agency and bringing it under the auspices of the Department of Justice, as its predecessor was, to dismantling all immigration enforcement outright, depending on who is doing the talking—he has, so far at least, conspicuously refused to do so, to the consternation of many on the left. If he does come around to the cause of abolishing ice, which may yet happen, my suspicion is that he will wind up supporting modest reforms and, crucially, a name change.

What accounts for the distance separating Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez on immigration? Lest we forget, Sanders is 76 years old, and he has lived through previous waves of left-wing enthusiasm that have come and gone. If public opinion really is thermostatic, as I believe it is, young leftists could be overestimating the extent to which the backlash to Trump heralds deeper shifts in the beliefs of rank-and-file voters. Or it could be that Sanders is a relic of the past and that open-borders socialism will soon be as American as apple pie. The Democratic Party seems determined to find out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply Will AOC Call Out Bernie Sander's Scapegoating of Immigrants? (Original post)
TomCADem Nov 11 OP
Cha Nov 11 #1
Buzz cook Nov 11 #2
OldRed2450 Nov 11 #5
Buzz cook Nov 11 #7
OldRed2450 Nov 11 #9
Quixote1818 Nov 11 #3
OldRed2450 Nov 11 #4
still_one Nov 11 #6
Buzz cook Nov 11 #8
LanternWaste Nov 11 #10
Buzz cook Nov 11 #12
TidalWave46 Nov 11 #11

Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:08 AM

1. Who knows?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:31 AM

2. The article is from June 2018 Zombie talking point.

 

It uses false equivalence.

Both Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez favor easing restrictions on immigration.

Neither wants an immigration policy the enforces cheap labor.

One can be for both things no one has to choose one or the other.

Just should add that being against open borders puts Sanders in the mainstream of all Americans. So it shouldn't be surprising. As far as I know every democratic candidate has said the same thing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 01:09 AM

5. Bernie is to the right of Hillary on this issue.

 

equating cheap labor and immigration is not supported by facts and data. Bernie is to the right of AOC, Hillary, and others on this issue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:36 PM

7. So why did Obama oppose

 

The same part of the bill that Sanders did?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/07/john-mccain/john-mccain-said-barack-obama-voted-against-part-i/

McCain responded, "I don't enjoy bringing this up, but the fact is, then-Senator Obama supported amendments which would have gutted the proposal that we had before the United States Senate, which he said he would propose, an amendment that basically gutted the legal temporary worker program."


So why did Obama do that?

Could this be the reason?
https://web.archive.org/web/20080418075628/https://lulac.org/advocacy/press/2007/immigrationreform4.html

“The Senate compromise is a radical departure from our current system that is rooted in family and employment-based immigration,” stated Rosa Rosales, LULAC National President. “If enacted, the temporary worker provision alone would create a new underclass of easily exploited workers who would be forbidden from realizing the American Dream. This bill will dehumanize workers, short-change employers and lead to wide-spread undocumented immigration as many workers inevitably overstay their visas rather than return home.”


“LULAC cannot support a bill that will separate families and lead to the exploitation of immigrant workers while resulting in widespread undocumented immigration in the future,” stated Brent Wilkes, LULAC National Executive Director. “We will continue to urge Congress to enact fair and just immigration reform that unites families, protect human rights, creates an avenue for undocumented immigrants to legalize their status and allows future workers to come in legally while providing a pathway to permanent legal residency if they want to stay.”


Or this
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/279407-immigration-reform-the-portable-guest-worker-visa-solution

The then leaders of the AFL-CIO, Laborers' International Union of North America, United Food and Commercial Workers International Union, International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, Iron Ship Builders, Blacksmiths, Forgers & Helpers, and the Brotherhood of Teamsters supported a legalization of current unauthorized immigrants. But all wrote letters opposing the guest worker program and supporting Dorgan’s efforts to kill it.

So Obama. Hispanics, and labor opposed part of the bill. If that makes Sanders to the right of Clinton, does it mean these folks are to the right of Clinton as well?

BTW I reject the idea that Clinton was of the right in any way.

But back to the point, Sanders had reasons for opposing the mccain-kennedy comprehensive immigration legislation act. What were they?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 03:18 PM

9. I'm didn't say Obama, I said Hillary..

 

Yes, Obama was to the right of Hillary on immigration. Bernie opposed it because he believed immigration hurts workers. The facts and data are not there for this claim.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:53 AM

3. Doesn't this fall under bashing a democratic figure?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 01:03 AM

4. Facts? Why would facts be bashing?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 01:57 AM

6. Because they don't fit into someone's narrative, facts be damned

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:39 PM

8. But are they facts?

 

Or are they unrelated data points that are used to infer something that is not true?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 03:25 PM

10. If you can supply a more valid, more objective analysis, please do.

 

Otherwise, your bumper-sticker allegation is nothing more than that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:20 PM

12. I already have

 

And I notice you have not.

All you have is assertions.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 03:44 PM

11. She is now carrying him and is looking great doing it.

 

She is bigger than Sanders.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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