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Undecided 38%
Elizabeth Warren22%
Joe Biden14%
Bernie Sanders8%
Kamala Harris8%

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:13 PM

 

Exclusive: Economist who backed Warren healthcare plan has doubts about her wealth tax




- A leading economist who vouched for Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren’s healthcare reform plan told Reuters on Thursday he doubts its staggering cost can be fully covered alongside her other government programs.

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, also voiced skepticism that the wealth tax provision in Warren’s plan - a key funding mechanism - will produce predicted levels of revenue because those targeted by the tax will seek to dodge it.....

Zandi said despite signing a highly touted letter last week backing the calculations for Warren’s Medicare for All plan, he does not support shifting Americans off the private health insurance they have in favor of a single-payer, government-run regime.

“I am not a fan of Medicare for All,” said Zandi, who is not affiliated with any Democratic presidential campaign and does not speak for the Warren campaign. “We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Reply Exclusive: Economist who backed Warren healthcare plan has doubts about her wealth tax (Original post)
Gothmog Friday OP
ritapria Friday #1
Demsrule86 Friday #3
ritapria Friday #7
Hassin Bin Sober Friday #15
Demsrule86 Friday #2
Red Oak Friday #6
Loki Liesmith Friday #16
emmaverybo Saturday #27
crazytown Friday #4
Hoyt Friday #5
Red Oak Friday #8
Hoyt Friday #11
Hassin Bin Sober Friday #17
Hoyt Friday #19
BeyondGeography Friday #20
Hoyt Friday #21
BeyondGeography Friday #22
Gothmog 10 hrs ago #37
Hassin Bin Sober 9 hrs ago #40
Gothmog 9 hrs ago #41
Hassin Bin Sober 9 hrs ago #42
Gothmog 8 hrs ago #43
Gothmog 8 hrs ago #44
Gothmog 8 hrs ago #45
Gothmog 8 hrs ago #46
dansolo Saturday #30
emmaverybo Saturday #31
crazytown Friday #9
Hoyt Friday #10
crazytown Friday #12
Hoyt Friday #14
George II Friday #13
peggysue2 Saturday #25
Kurt V. Friday #18
FloridaBlues Friday #23
emmaverybo Saturday #33
Gothmog 10 hrs ago #38
Gothmog Saturday #24
peggysue2 Saturday #26
emmaverybo Saturday #28
MH1 Saturday #29
Iggo Saturday #34
emmaverybo Saturday #35
Gothmog 10 hrs ago #39
Iggo Saturday #32
Gothmog 14 hrs ago #36

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:20 PM

1. 8% payroll Tax needed to fund MFA

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to ritapria (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:22 PM

3. Payroll taxes are regressive...and we already pay too much.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:28 PM

7. Savings from MFA outweigh increase in Payroll Taxes

 

MFA results in a "Tax cut" for most Americans …………
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:39 PM

15. You know what's really regressive? Premiums, copays and deductibles.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:21 PM

2. I don't find this surprising...what is surprising is Warren's doubling down on this....a losing

 

issue in the general ...I believe. K&R.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:26 PM

6. Yes, people love their health insurance! (sarcasm)

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/opinion/insulin-prices-diabetics.html

snip

Does Anyone Really ‘Love’ Private Health Insurance?

I am alive today not because of insurance companies but despite them.

...I am alive today not because of insurance companies but despite them. My insulin refills have been delayed countless times, not because of medical reasons, but because of what seem to be arbitrary insurance limits and requirements to continuously document my condition, which is permanent. Once, my insulin refill was delayed so long that I ran out, just when the insurance office closed for a three-day weekend. I was a student, away from home, with no other way to pay for my prescription. Terrified, I rushed to the pharmacy in tears. The pharmacist took pity on me and slipped me a vial of insulin without charge, saving my life.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:41 PM

16. Yeah I love mine.

 

Amazing coverage.
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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 03:16 AM

27. We must work to change this through regulation and bringing down costs. Single payer will also

 

have red tape, criteria to be met to get this or that drug, be eligible for a surgical procedure, and long wait times are baked into state run healthcare. In England, ER’s frequently close up due to demand and provider shortage, Many people there and in other single payer, government-centered system countries end up paying out of pocket. Delays are legendary.

With or without M4All, we have to fix problems In the existing systems and preserve them from being gutted because we will not get M4All for years. Meanwhile Medicaid and Medicare are at risk. And it is true that there are private insurance horrors from out of network emergencies to the situation you describe that put your life at risk.

Some private insurance offer much better benefits counseling and actual intervention than others. They should all be regulated, standardized so that they offer advce nurses, efficient handling of documentation, urgent care, out of network coverage for emergency and catastrophic illness, case management. Drug costs must be brought down along with all medical costs whatever program one is on and in order to have good quality universal healthcare.



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Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:22 PM

4. "I am not a fan of Medicare for All," said Zandi

 

“We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"

Zandi didn't back Warren's health care plan.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:24 PM

5. No chit. She can't pay for it all in reality and too many voters won't fall for it.

 

She needs to get real soon.
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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:30 PM

8. You bet!

 

The rest of the industrialized world has better health care and at a lower cost. No way in heck the wealthiest nation on Earth could ever do that! Too expensive! Won't work!

Heck, even Iceland has good national health care. Not the good ol' US of A, though. We need to pay those Pharma salaries and keep the mega insurers well fed at the trough.
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:35 PM

11. A Public Option will get us there much quicker than

 

trying to cram MFA down the throats of people who don’t want it, rightly or wrongly.
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Undecided

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:44 PM

17. How are we going to pay for a public option!?!??11?

 

How are we going to get a public option through a Republican senate!?!?!!11?

How is a public option goin to insure and pay for 30 million uninsured!!??1!?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:50 PM

19. PO is cheaper and more likely to pass. But, nice that you admit

 

Sanders’ and Warren’s promises to voters are not viable.
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Undecided

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:04 PM

20. CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans: Biden's healthcare plan is not much different from MFA

 

The health care industrial complex hates all of our candidates' plans with a passion and they are geared up to smear as much FUD on the public option as on MFA:

The CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans said a healthcare plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden is not much different than "Medicare for All," which the industry strongly opposes, according to The Hill.

In an interview with The Hill, AHIP CEO Matt Eyles spoke out against Mr. Biden's healthcare plan, which aims to strengthen the ACA while also introducing a public health insurance option. Mr. Eyles said the public option, which would be similar to Medicare, would lead to too much government involvement in the healthcare system.

"If you're creating a government-run option that essentially leverages price controls, and relies on a government-administered system, that doesn't create what would be a competitive playing field," Mr. Eyles told the publication. "We're viewing Medicare for All and all of these other … variations on it, as similarly bad."

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/payer-issues/ahip-comes-out-against-biden-s-healthcare-plan.html


AHIP is a member of the anti-Medicare for All industry group called the Partnership for America’s Health Care Future, which has been running ads against Medicare for All and public option proposals from the leading Democratic presidential candidates. They want to keep things just as they are.

https://americashealthcarefuture.org/about-us/
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:11 PM

21. It's significantly different in that people can choose.

 

I believe 80% will take it within 5 years of introduction, if a government plan is even half as good as we think.

I don’t believe a Democrat will get elected Prez running on mandated MFA, no matter how much you don’t want it. And if we lose Presidency, House and Senate are at risk.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:17 PM

22. Of course it's different, the point is it will be lobbied against just as hard

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 05:48 PM

37. A pubic option does not cost much

 


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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 05:59 PM

40. Lol. The Public option doesn't cost much but is ranked with MFA as "low cost and high quality"?

 

They are both ranked as low cost! Can we now stifle about how are we going to pay for MFA?


I’ll take the low cost high quality plan that covers EVERYONE without convoluted hoops to jump through.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:05 PM

41. Building on the ACA is the best way to go in the real world

 


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Response to Gothmog (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:17 PM

42. Didn't you just post something showing that system as highest cost and lower quality?

 

This place can be so confusing sometimes.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:55 PM

43. No

 

Read the material posted
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:56 PM

44. A public-option plan is the best way to go

 


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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)


Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:43 PM

46. From Jared Bernstein

 




Remarkably, a public-option plan that requires more cost-sharing than single payer but significantly less than current law gets to near-universal coverage for less in additional federal costs than the Trump tax cuts ($1.8 trillion over 10 years for the plan vs. $1.9 trillion for the tax cuts).
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Response to Red Oak (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 03:15 PM

30. No country has a plan like the proposed M4A

 

Most of the countries rely on a mix of government funded plans along with private insurance. Expanding Medicare as it exists today, along with a public option and reversing the Republican sabotage of the ACA is much closer to what other countries have.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 06:33 PM

31. The rest of the industrialized nations pay much more tax than we do. And they tried wealth

 

tax and had to get rid of it. They also do not have perfect systems. NHS is increasingly privatized,
suffers terrible doctor and nurse shortages, has long waiting times even for screening tests like cervical cancer, many horror stories the result of uneven, hurried, or lax care, ER shut downs frequently, and many there rely on private insurance and paying out of pocket.

Painting too rosey a picture, not being forthright about taxes, relying on a whole other cost-source that may or may not come to be, and not dealing with what to do for the years it would take for
M4All to be implemented, are flaws in the proposal that will not go away no matter how many times proponents call challenges RW talking points or try to shame people who want to build on ACA as selfish.

No other industrialized country with socialized healthcare gives undocumented residents full coverage. Why? Not feasible. First, we need to document our immigrant workers, get DACA up and running, take care of those we hope will be given asylum, prepare for the possibility of refugees, and then carefully consider, once we have over 11 million more people covered, the impact on the system if we also extend full benefits to all the undocumented people in the world. Because that, taking care of the undocumented other socialized medical systems don’t is what we will end up doing. That is a part of Warren’s plan, something that is not doable if all the rest could miraculously get done.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:30 PM

9. She will pay for it by 'Economic Pariotism'

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:32 PM

10. Yeah, treat foreign workers like scabs. EP and America First

 

were trump’s appeal too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:37 PM

12. Popular in the Midwest

 

(devil's advocate here) or have trump's lying promises left a mark?
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Response to crazytown (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:39 PM

14. Yep, bashing foreigners and minorities is popular in red states.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:38 PM

13. This is one of the reasons why DETAILS are needed.

 

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Undecided

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Response to George II (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 02:46 AM

25. Exactly!

 

The details are needed for voters to look at and have financial people scan for viability.

Which is why the details are frequently not provided . You start peering under the hood and suddenly that bold, bright idea doesn't look terribly credible or doable. Which is the case with M4A funding and the proposed Wealth Tax.

That being said, better to have those warts exposed now than during the General Election. Because then, the slicing and dicing machine will be notched up to the max.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:46 PM

18. the real story here is billionaires will do everything to avoid this tax.

 

how are ppl either missing this, ok with it or too beat down to fight that?
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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:31 PM

23. Her wealth tax probably won't see the light of day and most of her plans revolve around it.

 

People love for someone else to pay to things hence the popularity at this moment in time but reality will come into play regarding this plan.
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Response to FloridaBlues (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 06:39 PM

33. The wealth tax will probably be challenged as unconstitutional. Could take years to litigate as it

 

will take years to implement M4All if ever. Biden asked in the debates what’s going to happen in the meantime to provide healthcare? No answer. Medicare and Medcaid are at risk. Warren has said not a word about protecting them or boosting ACA.
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Response to FloridaBlues (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 05:51 PM

38. A wealth tax may be unconstitutional and will be tied up in the courts for a long time

 

I personally doubt that the proposed Wealth Tax is constitutional. The direct tax clause of the US constitution is clear and the 16th Amendment does not authorize this tax



Additionally, a wealth tax would almost certainly face a legal challenge from well-funded conservative opponents. And it’s genuinely unclear whether it would ultimately be ruled constitutional. The issue isn’t that Congress can’t enact a wealth tax. It’s that if a wealth tax counts as a “direct” tax, Congress would have to ensure that the amount of money coming from each state was roughly the same on a per-capita basis, as there is a provision of the Constitution that bans direct taxes unless the amount collected is drawn equally from the states based on their populations. Given that wealth is not evenly distributed across the states, that equal distribution would be functionally impossible to ensure.

The fate of a wealth tax, then, would hinge on whether it counts as a direct tax. That’s a tough question to answer, because the Constitution itself doesn’t really define what a direct tax is, beyond the fact that the category includes a poll tax, which is a fixed amount charged for every person. Taxes like tariffs and certain others that can’t be fairly distributed on a per-person basis are generally not considered direct taxes. But how all of this would apply to a wealth tax isn’t entirely clear. The Supreme Court weighed in on this question more than 100 years ago — and not in the wealth tax’s favor. In 1895, the court struck down a federal income tax law because it taxed income generated from property, including land and other kinds of personal property, like stocks and bonds. The decision was controversial, and Congress and the states effectively reversed part of it 20 years later with the passage of the 16th Amendment which allowed Congress to tax income without worrying about how evenly it was distributed. But Congress’s authority to tax wealth wasn’t addressed by the amendment, and the Supreme Court hasn’t really returned to the issue in the past century.

Warren’s defenders argue, however, that the court simply got it wrong back in 1895, and that a modern wealth tax wouldn’t count as a direct tax. But the court’s right-leaning justices might approach the tax with a less favorable eye. And the existence of the old precedent could give the court’s conservative justices a way to dispatch a wealth tax relatively easily, which gives experts like Daniel Hemel pause. “A wealth tax could raise trillions of dollars — or, if it’s struck down by the Supreme Court, it could raise nothing,” said Hemel, a law professor at the University of Chicago. “That’s a really big risk if you care about the redistribution of income and you’re trying to figure out how to get it done.”

This tax is not likely to survive legal challenge
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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 01:29 AM

24. From my twitter feed

 


?s=20
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 02:48 AM

26. Because . . . The Math

 

In the end, the numbers will always have their say.
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 03:27 AM

28. Well she needs to prune and prioritize her plans. He is not saying M4All can't get paid for, but

 

that in the context of about 4O additional very extensive and costly plans, from clean energy to
universal childcare to student debt forgiveness to a large social security raise to free college to billions upon billions she is promising to multiple other projects, there is no way.

She can pick three or four. She can modify.
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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 08:15 AM

29. Zandi's wrong, at least in his implication.

 

He says: “We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"

NO, not all of the 160 million people who have private insurance are "pretty happy" with it.

That's just flat wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have numbers, but I bet someone does.

I personally think my private insurance sucks. Having it is better than not having it. But it doesn't take genius-level creativity to imagine a better system. Especially if one has been in the military and experienced just going to the doctor when you need to go to the doctor, and not having to jump through a bunch of bullshit hoops and still wonder how much $$ is going to come from where to pay for it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MH1 (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 06:40 PM

34. You're right. I'm not happy with it. I'm happy that I have it. It's better than not having it.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MH1 (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 06:42 PM

35. About half. Can't cite. Makes sense. We sure know many are happy with Obamacare. ,

 

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Response to MH1 (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 05:51 PM

39. Gov. John Lynch talks about how Medicare for All will harm New Hampshire's economy.

 


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Response to Gothmog (Original post)


Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 01:36 PM

36. Economist Mark Zandi who signed off on Warren's math calculations came out against her plan."

 


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