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Undecided 38%
Elizabeth Warren22%
Joe Biden14%
Bernie Sanders8%
Kamala Harris8%

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 08:57 PM

 

Joe Biden's ridiculous attack on Elizabeth Warren's 'elitism'

... Can Warren combat this? Well, she’s done it before. Former Massachusetts senator Scott Brown, who famously drove a 2005 GMC Canyon pickup truck, tried this attack on Warren — who was, after all, a Harvard University professor — in the 2012 Senate election. She defeated him, in part, by pointing out he was no friend of the working class, voting in favor of the conservative Republican agenda over and over again.

So here’s a few reminders. Warren, the daughter of a janitor, devoted years of her professional career to making things better for working people, fighting — ultimately unsuccessfully — bankruptcy “reforms” that ultimately financially crippled millions of American families.

Biden, on the other hand, was so solicitous of big money interests, he acquired the nickname “the senator from MBNA,” after a Delaware-based credit card company. (The same company gave his son Hunter a plum position straight out of law school.) Biden championed that bankruptcy legislation that Warren fought. That law was so profoundly awful for Americans, no less an authority than the New York Federal Reserve believes it played a role in the subprime mortgage crisis and the wave of foreclosures that resulted. That’s quite an accomplishment for a supposed friend of the working man and woman. One might even say he, not Warren, was looking out for the interests of the elite.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/06/joe-bidens-ridiculous-attack-elizabeth-warrens-elitism/

This evening, Warren tweeted:


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

106 replies, 2442 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 106 replies Author Time Post
Reply Joe Biden's ridiculous attack on Elizabeth Warren's 'elitism' (Original post)
BeyondGeography Nov 6 OP
TwilightZone Nov 6 #1
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #2
Demsrule86 Nov 6 #7
Thekaspervote Nov 6 #8
Demsrule86 Nov 6 #31
LanternWaste Nov 7 #61
Act_of_Reparation Tuesday #99
PatSeg Nov 6 #17
MustLoveBeagles Nov 6 #39
PatSeg Nov 7 #50
MustLoveBeagles Nov 7 #66
PatSeg Nov 7 #68
MustLoveBeagles Nov 7 #69
PatSeg Nov 7 #71
MustLoveBeagles Saturday #88
PatSeg Saturday #89
kennetha Nov 6 #3
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #4
oldsoftie Nov 6 #5
Thekaspervote Nov 6 #9
Jakes Progress Friday #75
betsuni Friday #76
Buzz cook Friday #77
betsuni Friday #78
Jakes Progress Sunday #91
oldsoftie Friday #86
Jakes Progress Sunday #90
oldsoftie Monday #94
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #11
beastie boy Nov 6 #21
Thekaspervote Nov 6 #45
Jakes Progress Friday #74
oldsoftie Friday #87
Jakes Progress Sunday #92
oldsoftie Monday #93
highplainsdem Nov 6 #16
PatSeg Nov 6 #19
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #20
PatSeg Nov 7 #47
betsuni Nov 6 #24
Cha Nov 6 #35
betsuni Nov 6 #38
Cha Nov 6 #40
betsuni Nov 6 #43
Skya Rhen Nov 6 #44
PatSeg Nov 7 #48
kcr Friday #72
betsuni Friday #73
Cha Nov 6 #37
PatSeg Nov 7 #49
stopdiggin Nov 7 #52
PatSeg Nov 7 #58
BlueMTexpat Nov 7 #54
PatSeg Nov 7 #59
JudyM Nov 7 #62
PatSeg Nov 7 #64
TCJ70 Nov 7 #56
InAbLuEsTaTe Friday #80
Demsrule86 Nov 6 #6
Thekaspervote Nov 6 #10
Demsrule86 Nov 6 #30
pangaia Nov 6 #12
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #13
pangaia Nov 6 #15
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #18
pangaia Nov 6 #22
pangaia Nov 6 #23
pangaia Nov 6 #25
BeyondGeography Nov 6 #27
pangaia Nov 6 #41
Thekaspervote Nov 6 #14
MustLoveBeagles Nov 6 #36
pangaia Nov 6 #42
MustLoveBeagles Nov 7 #65
pangaia Nov 7 #67
MustLoveBeagles Nov 7 #70
redstateblues Nov 6 #26
Chin music Nov 6 #29
Chin music Nov 6 #28
BlueMTexpat Nov 7 #55
PhoenixDem Nov 6 #32
Thekaspervote Nov 7 #46
FloridaBlues Nov 6 #33
BeckyDem Nov 6 #34
customerserviceguy Nov 7 #51
Mike Nelson Nov 7 #53
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 7 #57
Baclava Nov 7 #60
muriel_volestrangler Nov 7 #63
Cha Friday #79
betsuni Friday #82
Cha Friday #83
betsuni Friday #84
Cha Friday #85
WobblyDem Friday #81
Renew Deal Monday #95
Gothmog Tuesday #96
BeyondGeography Tuesday #97
Gothmog Tuesday #98
BeyondGeography Tuesday #100
Gothmog Tuesday #101
BeyondGeography Tuesday #103
Gothmog Tuesday #104
BeyondGeography Tuesday #105
Gothmog Tuesday #106
gibraltar72 Tuesday #102

Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:09 PM

1. It's probably no more ridiculous than her "running in the wrong primary" comment.

 

Welcome to the primaries. It's like this every cycle. You might want to get used to it, because it only gets worse from here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:14 PM

2. Oh, adult tips

 

Awesome.

For context, you might want to look at her full quote and the smears from Biden that preceded it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:26 PM

7. She basically called him a GOP for not supporting M4A...said he needed to run in the GOP primary.

 

What about that smear?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:28 PM

8. Oh but but...we're gonna pile on front runner...SAD!!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:43 PM

31. Yep, He is the front runner and I think he is moving up...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 10:42 AM

61. Holding your own candidate to a lower standard than the other candidates is...

 

well, damned convenient.

It allows you to criticize other candidates for the very thing your own candidate does... but without the fizzy aftertaste of hypocrisy, of course.

Awesome, indeed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #61)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:04 AM

99. You're right.

 

They should have dismissed the reference to Warren's comment as the whataboutism it clearly was. Two wrongs don't make a right. The wrong thing Warren said doesn't make Biden's comment any less wrong.

But you already knew that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:04 PM

17. That's for sure

 

We have so many really important issues, but primary voters get bogged down with petty, superficial crap. While a handful of Democrats are arguing over who is the "elitist" (neither of them are by the way), Donald Trump is destroying our democracy, our environment, and the stability of the world at a record pace. Time to keep our priorities straight.

Our election seasons are insanely long and that only serves to divide us even more. Best to take a lot of breaks from politics until we get to the general. We've all been through this before, we should know better by now.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:02 PM

39. Stop making sense PatSeg

 



Just kidding. Please continue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:30 AM

50. Ha, ha, ha

 

That cracked me up! Love your name!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 10:19 PM

66. I was trying to lighten the mood

 

The nastiness is wearing me down. A lot of people seem to like my name. I'm glad I picked it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 10:45 PM

68. Same here

 

I limit the amount of time I spend on the primaries forum. Its going to be a LONG year and I can't burn out so early.

My son and his wife have a beagle-Australian cattle dog, but she is mostly beagle. Quite the character and of course very lovable!



https://www.flickr.com/photos/patseg/28511397144/in/album-72157644404940224/" title="2016-08-21 Starbuck"><img src=""
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #68)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 11:15 PM

69. This forum can be addicting

 

I spend more time here than I should but it's hard to stay away. I should visit the Lounge and Music Appreciation more. That dog is a gorgeous blend of both breeds. I love her markings. I have a Tri Color male and a Blue Tick female both 13 years old. They both recently tore their ACL's in the same week. No fun for anyone and lots of vet bills.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 11:33 PM

71. Oh my, both of them?

 

What are the odds? I think Starbuck is eleven now. She was getting really slow and sluggish, but now she is on some meds that have made her seem several years younger. I think it is an adrenal medication. I could really use some!!!

I try to keep my focus on Trump and the republicans, plus cultivating my hobbies. The stress level these days is too high to be digesting politics 24/7. When it comes to our Democratic candidates, there are some I like better than others, but the day in and day out nitpicking of our own is too exhausting. If I listen to it too much, I start disliking all of them! That's when I know I'm on overload. Other countries don't have to listen to their candidates for over a year. We are always in campaign mode it seems.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #71)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 12:27 AM

88. Yep. Back left leg on both of them

 



It happened almost 6 weeks ago. They were both running the fence line barking at passing dogs. Oscar on Monday and Stripe on Thursday. At least the casts are off now. It was a pain carrying them up and down the stairs all the time. Especially Stripe. She's very heavy.

I wish the campaign seasons were shorter. President Obama didn't call it silly season for nothing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #88)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 10:42 AM

89. That is so bizarre

 

They must be so in sync with one another. Can't imagine having to carry them up an down the stairs!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:16 PM

3. My Way or the Highway Warren

 

How dare anybody question her, eh?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to kennetha (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:19 PM

4. Amy Klobuchar on Biden calling Warren's policies 'elitist:' 'I wouldn't use that word'

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/amy-klobuchar-on-biden-calling-warrens-policies-elitist-i-wouldnt-use-that-word/vi-AAJXc6l
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:23 PM

5. No, I wouldnt use "elitist". Just "unrealistic".

 

She has no way to realistically fund the proposals in her platform. Period.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:30 PM

9. Yes...it is but we all like unicorns and magic beads ...right??!!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:22 AM

75. You do not understand how health insurance works.

 

What is Biden's plan to achieve universal health care? He can throw stones, but he cannot put forth a coherent plan.

Warren has shown her funding plan. Biden just ducks the issue of his "plan".
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:32 AM

76. Biden's plan is the ACA with public option and other improvements.

 

If there wasn't a plan to fund the ACA including a public option, the bill wouldn't have passed Congress, which it did.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:43 AM

77. But the ACA with a public option didn't pass

 

Part of the deal in passing the ACA was that there would be no public option.

Giden and the rest who advocate this system should explain how they will pay for it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #77)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:46 AM

78. It passed Congress with a public option.

 

Joe Lieberman and a few other senators wouldn't vote for it and it was removed from the bill. The point is that it wouldn't have passed in the Congress if it was clear it couldn't be funded.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #76)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:00 PM

91. Biden's plan

 

actually has a plan than to have one yourself.

Biden does not have a plan for universal health coverage. He conveniently leaves out how many would have to do without.

Simple math. It cost x amount to have universal health coverage. That is how much Warren's plan would cost. Now add profit for the insurance industry. Pay their executives millions. Hire multi-million dollar lobbying companies. Add in multiple millions in extra paper work.

Add the x amount (Warren's plan) to the insurance costs and you have other candidate's plan costs.

You have two options left. You can just say "Hey. I got mine. Fuck anyone else." Or you can be honest and say that you want ACA and universal options and lots of insurance profits. That would cost more. To say otherwise is just ignoring math. And we know who doesn't care about facts.

So does Biden's plan tell a couple of thousand people to just go to hell when it comes to health care, or does he favor a plan that costs much more than Warren's?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:51 AM

86. Yes, Warren has shown her funding plan. 1/2 of it is a fairytale.

 

Fully 16 trillion comes from the same things we've heard about for 40 years; increased enforcement, less fraud waste and abuse, trimming costs (the government never lays off people), etc. And there no way to quantify these "savings" even if they WERE realistic
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #86)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:49 PM

90. Go ahead and trot out the Wall Street meme.

 

I have to ask if you work for the insurance industry.

Show me any way that we can achieve universal health care the doesn't cost more.

I can just as easily toss off silly memes like, Biden is obviously a tool of Wall Street. You just used the MSM favorite that her detailed plan is unrealistic.

The plan is very realistic. It borrows the best from a dozen other countries that manage to have universal health care without buying gold faucets for the guest bathrooms at the lake house of insurance CEOs.

Try reading her plan instead of just parroting what the millionaire MSM talking heads tell you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #90)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:25 AM

94. No, it ignores what most other countries do, which is tax almost EVERYONE.

 

And those countries also use a VAT to raise a good portion of revenue.
We refuse to entertain that here. Even though it would finally tax trillions of untaxed unreported revenue.
But by all means, run on it. At the end, I'm voting for whoever is left. But Dont blame me if we end up with shitgibbon again
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:39 PM

11. If only she was as grounded as Joe

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:15 PM

21. Actually, she is.

 

As you speak, she is working with the same Republicans in the Senate that Joe has referred to. The minute she stops doing it, she becomes the most useless member of the Senate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beastie boy (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:55 PM

45. Oh no!!! The voice of sanity...heavens sakes....thank you!!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:19 AM

74. You are very uninformed on the matter.

 

M4A is the cheapest way to achieve universal healthcare. I assume as a Democrat you believe that universal health care is a good thing.

How will Biden fund universal health care? He has no plan that doesn't leave thousands of our poorest and sickest without health care.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #74)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:58 AM

87. You are uninformed on reality. 5 trillion a year CANNOT be raised.

 

Unless you tax the hell out of EVERYONE. The wealth tax is a joke in what it would supposedly raise. She ignores the fact that many people LIKE their current insurance plans and dont trust the government to improve on it ("I dont know anyone who likes their insurance". She ignores all the economists, many of them progressive, who flat out say her funding projections are overblown to the point of being ridiculous.
A lot of people will not vote for this train wreck. Everyone should be focused on BEATING TRUMP, not making promises that cant be kept.
Thats the real world.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #87)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:06 PM

92. Stop doing Wall Street's work.

 

I can take every sentence in your reply and refute it with facts and honesty.

But you already know that you are peddling silliness. You use phrases like "train wreck" and "joke" and "real world". How about some numbers and facts? How about I call your "train wreck" and raise you a "poppycock"? Just silly.

You say this is the real world. In the real world, every single industrial country has universal health care. We could have that too if people who don't know what they are talking about would quit spouting the lies and misdirection that they swallow so easily.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #92)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:23 AM

93. No, you CANT refute every point. Fully 1/2 of her revenue projections are guesses.

 

Its's the old "fraud waste and abuse" lines that we used to hear from Reagan.
And even if her numbers WERE realistic, it does NOTHING to reduce the debt.
Show me some major economists who actually buy her revenue projections.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:00 PM

16. Yes, and then Klobuchar went on to say that "no one has a monopoly on good ideas." That's HER

 

way of expressing what both Biden and Buttigieg meant by Warren's "my way or the highway" attitude.

I admire Warren's intelligence. But she does often project an academic elitism that I think is partly due to her debate background (even when you train to argue both sides of an issue, you train to argue them in each debate as if the other side has no real validity) and her background as a law professor lecturing students.

After one of the debates, I saw one of her supporters here post a message praising Warren for looking like a brilliant professor lecturing dumb students (the dumb students being the other candidates). Those weren't the exact words used, and I've been trying to find that post again but haven't used the right keywords, apparently. But that was the gist of it. Brilliant professor versus dumb students.

I was really struck by that post -- both by how perfectly it nailed an image Warren creates at times that IMO hurts her with people who aren't completely sold on her already, and by how unaware that Warren supporter was that coming across that way could be a problem for Warren.

And btw, if you don't think criticizing a "my way or the highway" attitude and saying "no one has a monopoly on good ideas" mean the same thing, here's part of a speech from President Obama:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/25/remarks-president-economy-jacksonville-fl


So put out some plans. I don't claim to have a monopoly on every good idea. (Laughter.) I don't. I'm happy to steal good ideas from anybody, because I just want to make things work. And it may seem hard sometimes, but if we're willing to take a few bold steps -- if Washington will just shake off its complacency and set aside just this kind of constant gridlock and “my way or the highway” attitude, then our economy will be better a year from now, just like it's better now than it was last year. And it will be better five years from now. And it will be better 10 years from now.



In his essay posted on Medium, Biden made it clear he was talking about an elitism that believes it has a monopoly on good ideas:

Some call it the “my way or the highway” approach to politics. But it’s worse than that. It’s condescending to the millions of Democrats who have a different view.

It’s representative of an elitism that working and middle class people do not share: “We know best; you know nothing”. “If you were only as smart as I am you would agree with me.”



So you have three candidates who are all getting the same impression from Warren. (At least three.)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:06 PM

19. Democrats need to quit using right-wing

 

talking points. "Elitist" is a republican smear against Democrats, we don't need to reinforce it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:07 PM

20. Exactly right, fire away, but try not to write Trump's lines for him

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:14 AM

47. Exactly!

 

Make them do their own dirty work.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:27 PM

24. Bernie Sanders says "elite" all the time.

 

Last edited Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

"We need a Democratic Party that is not a liberal elite but of the working class of this country ..."

"Democrats have focused too much on a liberal elite. That is, raising incredible sums of money from wealthy people."

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class ... ."

"The political, financial, and media elite of this country will stop at nothing to defeat us."

"The business model, if you will, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. ... The Democratic Party has transformed itself from the party of the working class ... to a party significantly controlled by a liberal elite ... ."

"Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attack on our progressive agenda."

He's not a Republican.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:50 PM

35. Thank you, betsuni! This is BS AFTER the General Election on CBS Nov 14th..

 

“There needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business. It is not good enough to have a liberal elite,” Sanders said in an interview on “CBS This Morning.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-deeply-humiliated-democrats-cant-talk-to-working-class/

Just sayin'
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:56 PM

38. He says it constantly. I guess some people aren't very familiar with Bernie!

 

It's in practically every speech (for decades) and email.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:04 PM

40. Yes and I'm glad you brought it up because

 

I was thinking about it but didn't really want to wade in.. but ya left me no choice. lol

It sounds like one of his favorite words. Does BS get repercussions for accusing the whole Dem party of being "elite"?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:20 PM

43. Never!

 

I think favorite word-wise, it's a toss up between "establishment" and "elite."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:39 PM

44. Boom!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:23 AM

48. Whoa, that's unsettling

 

Especially when you see all those quotes together. I'm sure he means well, but this whole anti-elitism contributes to a mindset that is anti education and anti intelligence, a way of dumbing down America. "Liberal elite" is an anti Democratic party slur and reinforces the republican and Fox News talking points. Clearly Bernie has contempt for the Democratic party, which is fine, but I wish he wouldn't use the party for his own political ambitions.

That said, I agree with a lot of what Bernie says, but clearly not the way he says it. Much too divisive at a time when we need more unity.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 12:01 AM

72. He also doesn't call himself a Dem. Never won the Presidential primary, either.

 

So, maybe not the best candidate to emulate?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to kcr (Reply #72)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:04 AM

73. I thought Biden used it in a "taste of your own medicine" kind of way.

 

I saw it directed more at Bernie Sanders than Warren. Maybe that's just me. Bernie's the one who always accuses Democrats of being corrupt elites and the same as Republicans, and constantly says Biden is corrupt because of fundraisers. I just can't see it directed at only Warren, that would be an overreaction to an off-hand comment.

The LA Times surveyed their readers in August 2016 and the top negative words about our Democratic nominee were: liar, corrupt, war, DNC, money, fraud, foundation, primary. Nobody on the Left should be encouraging this so it doesn't happen again next year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:52 PM

37. Sanders on CBS AFTER the General Election.. November 14th..

 

“There needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business. It is not good enough to have a liberal elite,” Sanders said in an interview on “CBS This Morning.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-deeply-humiliated-democrats-cant-talk-to-working-class/

Just sayin..
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:27 AM

49. Yeah

 

Not a great way to win over Democratic voters. I agree that the party needs to focus more on the working class, but not like that. Sounds like something Frank Luntz would write. You don't win over some voters by excluding or insulting others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 03:42 AM

52. was going to say the same thing

 

could we maybe tone down the "elitist" .. "academic" .. "ivory tower" buzz words? If somebody is going to be sneering at the "so called experts" and the pointy headed intellectuals .. I sort of rather it be the other side rather than my own? I rather like to think that we are still the party that believes in science .. and education .. and ideas.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 08:46 AM

58. Spot on

 

The world needs intelligent, accomplished people. Putting them down is not healthy. The definition of elite is "a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society". Who do you want doing your brain surgery or building your bridges or flying your airplanes.................OR running your country?

Right-wing spin doctors have taken another good word and turned it into something negative, like "liberal".
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 06:17 AM

54. Thanks for this!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 09:06 AM

59. You're welcome!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:45 PM

62. So much this. It's a ready-made ad clip for tRump.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:01 PM

64. I know

 

We shouldn't be doing his work for him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to kennetha (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:37 AM

56. Isn't that what other candidates say as well, though?

 

Biden says his plan is the way to go. His way or the highway.
Klobuchar says she’s right and others are wrong. Her way or the highway.

Ultimately, every plan will require hard work and no ones plan is more likely to pass than anyone else’s.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #56)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:58 AM

80. Precisely!!

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:24 PM

6. First of all, she shouldn't call Democrats who don't agree with her as needing to run in a

 

different primary...IE Republicans. It is rather my way or the highway with Warren...you have to agree with me or you are not a Democrat. Scott Brown tried a different attack as he was GOP...he made fun and sneered at her academic background...called her professor-the egg- head smear which will never work of course. She is an educated intelligent woman. He looked ridiculous (Brown).

Biden didn't do this at all he said her my way or the highway approach that all Democrats had to agree with her policy proposals particularly M4A was a bit condescending and it is...isn't this the second post on this?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:32 PM

10. Can't claim this but .. Biden is running against trump, everyone else is running against Joe

 

Let’s get him!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:41 PM

30. Very good point...love the smiley...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:41 PM

12. WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP PISSING ON EACH OTHER!!!!!!

 

jeesh !!



You sound like a bunch of bored, spoiled brats!!!




Here.. listen to this instead.....
much healthier use of one's time..

Brilliant conducting and playing, BTW....





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:44 PM

13. Hey, I discovered this lovely Scriabin piano concerto this week

 

Better late than never:

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:52 PM

15. I've heard that one long ago?

 

Scriabin is, in my view, a greatly underappreciated composer....



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:05 PM

18. I was thrilled to hear it

 

I fall into repertory rut syndrome a lot so anything new is like a gift at this point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:21 PM

22. Well, you came to the right place....

 

#1 Played this last week..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:22 PM

23. Playing this one next week

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:27 PM

25. And another GREAT Polish/"Russian" - Mieczyslaw Weinberg

 

Arguably the equal of Shostakovich and Prokofiev-- or at least up at that level...---

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:34 PM

27. Thank you, friend

 



You play timpani, right? What’s it like to wail on Beethoven’s 7th?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:09 PM

41. Ah ha, funny you should mention that..

 

One of the glories of being a timpanist, and there are MANY, is the 2. BIg A7 chords just before the end.. . You can hear them here starting at about 42:15 ,

Many years ago while playing this, just before the first one, one of the back desk 2nd violins, who was fairly close in front of me for some reason, turned around and screamed at me, "Beat the shit out of those drums!" And so I did! So I did!

BTW. the timpanist in this video with the Concertgebouw is Mariss Komst.,one of the great ones. He just retired. I last ran into him on an elevator at the Sejong Art Center in Seoul, South Korea. 🤣 Neither of us knew the other was in town. 😎


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 09:51 PM

14. Spoiled brats indeed!!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to pangaia (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:52 PM

36. Thank you for your post and video clip

 

Biden is a big Doodyhead! Warren's got cooties!



This bickering is so childish. They're both great candidates whom I would be proud to vote for next November. I just happen to agree more with Biden that's all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 11:13 PM

42. Lolololol

 

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2019, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie has bad breath
Pete is a boring dresser
Kamala has a loud voice
Tulsi us nuts.... well, that one, maybe...

🤣
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 10:02 PM

65. Amy's a mean boss, Cory's mom wears combat boots

 



I'm glad you took my post in the spirit it was intended. You may be right about Tulsi. She's the only candidate I don't care for.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 10:43 PM

67. come to think of it...

 

bernie probably DOES have bad breath

pete is kind of a boring dresser

kamala does often speak loudly.. on the other hand, there are some real screamers...




If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #67)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 11:17 PM

70. LOL

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:30 PM

26. Why did Warren start this shit?

 

Calling Joe a Republican- She is the only one running that was a registered Republican
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #26)


Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)


Response to Chin music (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 06:18 AM

55. Same here. eom

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:46 PM

32. What worked against Scott Brown in ultra-blue Massachusetts

 

is not going to work in middle-America.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PhoenixDem (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:00 AM

46. Oh so true!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:49 PM

33. If you dish out be prepared to receive or candidates

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:50 PM

34. Warren will not ever stop fighting for Medicare for All.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:11 AM

51. I like Joe Biden

 

but his statements do strike me as a bit whiny. He's been way stronger in the debates, when he stays focused and on message.

We're coming down to the nasty part of primary season, time to fasten the seat belts.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 05:26 AM

53. Well...

 

... the "ragged edge of middle class" probably looks better than "dirt poor" to most people... Elizabeth doesn't show any more "elitism" than Joe. They are both doing well - they are in an "elite" group of politicians that have the wealth/power combo most Americans will never experience. Bernie, too... but they genuinely understand and want to work on behalf of the non-elites, in my opinion. When I was in college, we were suspicious of what we called the "power elite". This group would be bankers, big pharm, corporate business leaders of great wealth. Elizabeth isn't one of those elites!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:56 AM

57. Ridiculous is right!!

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 09:38 AM

60. Biden "the senator from MBNA", lol

 

Oh yeah, the gloves are coming off, its bare knuckle time
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 03:52 PM

63. "Elitism" is a shameful attack from someone who used to point out he was the first in his family

 

to go to university. He used to see academic advancement as an achievement, not something that discounts you. I wonder what his wife, the doctor of education, thinks about an attack on someone based on them getting so far in education?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:51 AM

79. "Elizabeth Warren ripped Joe Biden's big Philly fund-raiser. Last year, she did an event with some..

 

of the same rich donors."

WASHINGTON — When Joe Biden went to Philadelphia late last month for a high-dollar fund-raiser with powerful lawyers and executives on the first day of his presidential campaign, Sen. Elizabeth Warren blasted him.
“How did Joe Biden raise so much money in one day? Well, it helps that he hosted a swanky private fund-raiser for wealthy donors at the home of the guy who runs Comcast’s lobbying shop,” Warren wrote in an email to supporters the next day, April 26.

Warren wrote on Friday that her schedule doesn’t include “fancy private fundraising events where only big donors are invited.” Another message said, “Our democracy is not for sale, and neither is my time.”

Some of Biden’s top donors have bristled at the criticism, because they remember attending expensive private events for Warren in Philadelphia as recently as last year.

While she has sworn off such gatherings for her presidential campaign, Warren held fund-raisers for her 2018 Senate reelection bid at a major Center City law firm last year and at the Rittenhouse Hotel in 2017.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/elizabeth-warren-joe-biden-presidential-fund-raisers-philadelphia-20190507.html

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287110075#top

Neener neener neener!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #79)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:15 AM

82. "swanky private fundraisers"

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #82)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:31 AM

83. Yes, EW accuses Biden of going to "Swanky private fundraisers.."

 

when she went to some of the same ones last year.

It's like.. "neener neener neener.. I went to them last year.. but you can't go to them this year or I'll "blast" you.

Some of Biden’s top donors have bristled at the criticism, because they remember attending expensive private events for Warren in Philadelphia as recently as last year.

"Swanky" almost sounds like.. wait for it.. Elitey!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #83)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:52 AM

84. I'd bristle too. Insinuations that donors are buying influence and candidates are corrupt.

 

It's purity musical chairs. Absurd. It's saying the Democratic kittycat in the room is the real danger when the hungry Republican lion is crouched to pounce right behind you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #84)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:15 AM

85. Too Right.. Thanks for pointing that out!..

 

It's bizarre!

“Our democracy is not for sale, and neither is my time.”

That's completely uncalled for.. implying that Biden is selling out. She knows better than that. She wasn't "selling out" when she went to the some of the same ones last year so why would she say that about Biden?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:13 AM

81. Biden's hypocrisy is laughable

 

Had to double check to be sure, but yeah:

Biden made this statement at a LOBBYING HEADQUARTERS where the requested floor price was a cool ten g r a n d. Don't have enough people on speed dial to raise that money conveniently? Don't worry, just give us the most a single person is allowed to donate and we'll let you in. Elites? What elites?

This is after he already blew 7 figures on traveling in a private jet.

Attending was Rudy Giuliani's pick for a federal prosecutor, now on the US-Russia Business Council who tried to sue the government when asked about his lobby's clients (incl. Coca-Cola and Freeport-McMoRan, which backs ethnic suppression in Indonesia) Biden really wants to court this crowd? Really?

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-influence/2019/11/07/biden-comes-to-k-street-782149

He only makes these statements because he assumes people either won't pay attention or won't care if they do. We can do so much better than this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:28 AM

95. A Harvard professor would be a member of the so called "elite"

 

As would being a student there. But that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t do it just to prove how normal they are.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 08:50 AM

96. I agree with Joe

 


?s=20
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #96)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 08:58 AM

97. Whiny and untrue

 

Two weeks prior he compared her to Trump and when she released her M4A pay-fors he said she was making it up. Then she made the remark.

But who expects truth from Biden in such matters?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #97)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:04 AM

98. I strongly disagree

 

Joe is correct on this
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #98)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:30 AM

100. He called her a liar again last night

 

Is she allowed to “attack” again? Or are there special rules for Uncle Joe?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #100)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:39 AM

101. No he did not -Watch the clip

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #101)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:48 AM

103. Tell us the truth

 

Seems to me he doesn't think she's telling the truth. If she responds in kind will she be "attacking" poor Joe again?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #103)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:57 AM

104. There is a concept in poltics called vetting

 

Warren has put out a plan that one of her own sources states will not work. See https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287340242 It is appropriate to ask questions about this plan. I have looked at Warren's plan and I think that it does not hold up.

I live in the real world. There is no way that Warren's plan can pass even if we abolish the filibuster and get control of the Senate. I prefer something that works in the real world

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #104)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 10:00 AM

105. Oh, a real world lecture...Joe's supposedly easy to pass plan will be fought just as hard as M4A

 

The health care industrial complex hates all of our candidates' plans with a passion and they are geared up to smear as much FUD on the public option as on MFA:

CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans: Biden's healthcare plan is not much different from MFA

The CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans said a healthcare plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden is not much different than "Medicare for All," which the industry strongly opposes, according to The Hill.

In an interview with The Hill, AHIP CEO Matt Eyles spoke out against Mr. Biden's healthcare plan, which aims to strengthen the ACA while also introducing a public health insurance option. Mr. Eyles said the public option, which would be similar to Medicare, would lead to too much government involvement in the healthcare system.

"If you're creating a government-run option that essentially leverages price controls, and relies on a government-administered system, that doesn't create what would be a competitive playing field," Mr. Eyles told the publication. "We're viewing Medicare for All and all of these other … variations on it, as similarly bad."

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/payer-issues/ahip-comes-out-against-biden-s-healthcare-plan.html



AHIP is a member of the anti-Medicare for All industry group called the Partnership for America’s Health Care Future, which has been running ads against Medicare for All and public option proposals from the leading Democratic presidential candidates. They want to keep things just as they are.

https://americashealthcarefuture.org/about-us/
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #105)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 10:09 AM

106. According to Jared Bernstein, a Public Option is a far cheaper alternative

 

Warren's plan will likely need $34+ trillion in new funding. A public option is far more cost effective in the real world



Remarkably, a public-option plan that requires more cost-sharing than single payer but significantly less than current law gets to near-universal coverage for less in additional federal costs than the Trump tax cuts ($1.8 trillion over 10 years for the plan vs. $1.9 trillion for the tax cuts).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:44 AM

102. Anyone wanna talk about who's all in for corporations? Anyone, anyone.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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