Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumElizabeth Warren proposes new taxes to fund Medicare-for-all but says middle class would be spared
Washington PostThe plan is designed to hit corporations and the wealthy, including a provision requiring companies to send most of the funds they currently spend on employee health contributions to the federal government. It also would expand her signature wealth tax proposal and would make cuts to military spending.
Warrens new health-care financing blueprint comes at a pivotal moment in the Democratic presidential primary, as the Massachusetts senators steady rise in the polls has prompted sustained attacks by competitors about how she would pay for her plans. As someone known to come up with politically savvy ways to sell dense policy ideas, communicating the gist of this 20-page proposal will be a major test of her candidacy.
Its also likely to serve as the next flashpoint in the primary race, coming out as the top candidates in the Democratic field are heading to Iowa for a busy weekend of political and campaign events starting Friday night.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)You have no idea what caused my reaction.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)If I misread the post then perhaps you can clarify it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Game over.
You lose.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)but, you post as if we are combatants.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cilla4progress
(24,589 posts)of repeating yourself?
I don't know how politicians do it!
😂
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)Nice visit at the top of polls for a bit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... Don't think we should mention what the KGOP does a counter to anything.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,207 posts)It will be very nasty. We are a Center/Left country and we need a Center/Left candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)A left Dem? This isnt 2016 - Trump has shown his fascist cards the past 3 years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hav
(5,969 posts)Some here already mentioned that they like their healthcare that is at least in part supported by the employer. This plan supposedly would require those companies to contribute these funds to the government. In theory, it may seem to be a good starting point to see all the current expenses as one and go from there. But doesn't that punish companies more who wanted to provide good healthcare for their employees while it also has to cover those whose companies didn't make this investment?
I don't say that Warren is on the wrong track but I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just say what she hints at indirectly: Your expenses wouldn't increase but a tax increase for all might not be avoidable to pay for the security that you don't go bankrupt because of an illness or injury.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,632 posts)would likely see their per employee costs go down, not up. Those who are providing only the bare minimum would probably be paying more per employee.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to brooklynite (Original post)
Cicada This message was self-deleted by its author.
ritapria
(1,812 posts)We need a payroll tax increase to place the program on a firm, financial footing ..I m for MFA , but I'm also a realist
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LeftTurn3623
(628 posts)People are getting payroll deductions now to pay for their heathcare - not even sure why this is an issue unless they have to pay more
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)We need to hear something like "You're paying $xxxx now, you'll pay $yyyy under my plan, less than $xxxx."
In her plan, she also says there will be a tax on "increased take-home pay" (presumably the increase is what people won't be paying for their portion of insurance that they're paying now). So it's an implication that you won't be paying directly for insurance through your employer, but you will be paying for it anyway. The savings are being eaten away here and there.
Now I see that she's proposing to increase her "wealth tax". She's been saying "just two cents per dollar" for months, that's no longer two cents, it's higher.
What we really need, from every candidate, is a table/spreadsheet detailing everything - "this is where we stand today, this is where we'll stand after the plan goes into effect".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)and Big Pharma?
It's astounding to me that a colonoscopy here in Ontario costs the Ministry of Health just under $500, while in at least one part of the US the hospital bills the insurance company $5,000 for the same procedure. FYI our surgeons are paid per procedure, and our hospitals receive annual budgets from the Ministry but have volunteer Boards of Trustees.
The elimination of vast hospital accounts departments with staff having to deal with the multitude of insurance plans would save significant dollars.
Our prescription costs are generally 50 to 90% less because the Ministry deals with the drug companies for what I like to call group cost-savings, or "buy in bulk".
But, I'm terribly afraid that Americans' trust in government to manage healthcare for all is largely non-existent, no matter how many examples of cost-saving (both personal and universal) are shown. Warren has a very high mountain to climb and overcome. And her "plan" will end up being a 300-page and largely un-read book.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...in a few years and the cost savings will be immediate. That's not going to happen. Canada's system is more than 35 years old. Wonder how efficient and inexpensive it was 30 years ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)It didn't have the hassles because very few folks had private insurance coverage. Management of the plan was delegated to each provincial Ministry of Health, with payments coming from the federal government -- although if I'm in Alberta and require hospitalization, Ontario will reimburse -- so it's transferrable among all provinces and territories.
There were private hospitals (mostly Roman Catholic ones) but they were happy to be taken over by the provincial ministries of health!
So, in those respects the situation was very different, and certainly not insurmountable.
Curiously, when the Premier of Saskatchewan, Tommy Douglas*, first instituted province-wide government healthcare, the province's doctors went on strike. Why? because they feared they wouldn't get paid as much. When they realized they would, indeed, be paid, and wouldn't need to hire bill collectors for unpaid accounts, they came back to work.
*Douglas was Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather, which is largely why Kiefer is so passionate about universal healthcare.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...and it became a series of individual provincial and territorial programs. It became unified and national in 1984. That's where I got my 35 years from. Even this may not be 100% accurate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TidalWave46
(2,061 posts)Good on Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,207 posts)think folks will vote to get rid of their insurance or raise taxes? I don't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,632 posts)The proposed MFA plans are superior to almost all private plans, and would drastically reduce individual healthcare costs.
Yeah nobody wants a better plan at a lower cost.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and Warren now says it's $52 T, over 10 years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)Shame on Kate Bedingfield.
The campaigns were supposed to be better than this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarheel_Dem
(31,211 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 5, 2019, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)
Yep, attacking her as not credible, a liar. Because they disagree?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/us/politics/joe-biden-elizabeth-warren.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarheel_Dem
(31,211 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)hitting back. Shes been pretty kind and patient with Biden camp who has been ruthless in targeting her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Saviolo
(3,270 posts)Any candidate that comes out and says that fixing a system as unbalanced as in the US without some pain is flat-out lying. Trump has done a great deal of damage. Imagine it like he shot the system. Well, now we've got to take the bullet out, and that's going to hurt. It's going to suck.
Which is a way of saying it's going to be expensive. There are going to have to be short term losses and expenses in order to secure the long-term stability. Of course the GOP can't look long term, and are only concerned about what will happen to their pocketbook tomorrow, and they've got a lot of people happy to parrot the idea that the short-term losses are the only effect, and ignore any long-term improvements.
And the job loss numbers in the private insurance industry are significant, but are far more significant than they have any right to be. The same thing's going to happen in California with the abolition of for-profit prisons. As I saw in a tweet recently:
I am sorry that for-profit prison workers will lose their jobs.
I am not sorry that for-profit prison workers will lose their jobs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,207 posts)folks are not going to go along with losing their private insurance or raise taxes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,632 posts)And why wouldnt I want a better plan at a much lower cost?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)Yeah, let's keep caping for people who will STILL be rich under an aggressive wealth tax
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
andym
(5,441 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,632 posts)and just repeat the talking points.
Apparently they are going to have to have their shitty expensive private insurance plans ripped from their cold dead fingers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
andym
(5,441 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,632 posts)The big health lobby has done its job well and gotten their meme out their that somehow replacing expensive inadequate private insurance with comprehensive universal public insurance is a bad thing, even if it costs each of us a lot less for a lot more.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(112,920 posts)Knowing that it would be best for the greatest number of their fellow citizens.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Earlier, her message was that taxes will go up, but they will be lower than what is currently paid for premiums. Now the message is that taxes won't go up at all. Or she is peddling the false narrative that all of the costs previously paid by employers will suddenly end up in the worker's paychecks, even though it won't be available because she is also dramatically increasing taxes that the employers will need to pay.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,452 posts)Because it taxes people more who are rich.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)Warren's plan has what is effectively a tax on the middle clas
Link to tweet
Warren shies away from calling this a tax, and she even claims "we don't need to raise taxes on the middle class by one penny to finance Medicare for All." Instead, she refers to it as an employer Medicare contribution, under which companies "would send payments to the federal government for Medicare."
But there is a commonly accepted term for a plan that requires companies to send payments to the federal government in order to finance government programs. That word is tax. And that is essentially what this isa nearly $9 trillion payroll tax (or, perhaps, a head tax with some small-business carve outs). It is thus hard to see this as anything other than a massive middle-class tax hike.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,929 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
andym
(5,441 posts)That is just not true. A company is not a person (except a sole proprietorship, which would be exempt), unless you agree with Mitt Romney that "corporations are people too". This is the same incorrect reasoning as the "Reason" article you posted. Conservative Rubin is just parroting the "Reason" article.
By this reasoning, Trump really did give the middle class a giant tax cut last year when most of the benefit was given to corporations.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rockfordfile
(8,682 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided