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brooklynite

(93,881 posts)
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 09:15 AM Nov 2019

Elizabeth Warren proposes new taxes to fund Medicare-for-all but says middle class would be spared

Washington Post

Sen. Elizabeth Warren on Friday proposed a $20.5 trillion package of tax increases to pay for the Medicare-for-all plan she backs, a move that attempts to answer critics who question how she would pay for the proposal but could open her to fresh lines of attack.

The plan is designed to hit corporations and the wealthy, including a provision requiring companies to send most of the funds they currently spend on employee health contributions to the federal government. It also would expand her signature wealth tax proposal and would make cuts to military spending.

Warren’s new health-care financing blueprint comes at a pivotal moment in the Democratic presidential primary, as the Massachusetts senator’s steady rise in the polls has prompted sustained attacks by competitors about how she would pay for her plans. As someone known to come up with politically savvy ways to sell dense policy ideas, communicating the gist of this 20-page proposal will be a major test of her candidacy.

It’s also likely to serve as the next flashpoint in the primary race, coming out as the top candidates in the Democratic field are heading to Iowa for a busy weekend of political and campaign events starting Friday night.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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Elizabeth Warren proposes new taxes to fund Medicare-for-all but says middle class would be spared (Original Post) brooklynite Nov 2019 OP
"$20.5 trillion package of tax increases" left-of-center2012 Nov 2019 #1
You prefer the $34 trillion in costs we're all paying now? blm Nov 2019 #6
Why do you say that? left-of-center2012 Nov 2019 #10
Well, your post implied that the $20 trillion was too high. blm Nov 2019 #25
My post implied nothing left-of-center2012 Nov 2019 #34
Odd tone. Not sure why blm Nov 2019 #35
Do you ever get tired cilla4progress Nov 2019 #24
And Republicans will hammer this Watchfoxheadexplodes Nov 2019 #7
They will hammer it even if they liked it, they'll make up something ... anything true or not. I don uponit7771 Nov 2019 #12
Yep DownriverDem Nov 2019 #19
Because center left will vote for extreme right Trump over blm Nov 2019 #26
Not sure how that would work out Hav Nov 2019 #2
Companies currently providing good plans Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Cicada Nov 2019 #3
We need more than 20.5 trillion dollars in Tax increases to properly fund MFA ritapria Nov 2019 #4
EW will have payroll deductions to help pay for it LeftTurn3623 Nov 2019 #5
"....unless they have to pay more" - and that's the big thing that no one has quantified yet. George II Nov 2019 #8
How does she plan to curb the exorbitant costs of private hospital corporations luvtheGWN Nov 2019 #11
Too many of the candidates' "plans" assume they'll be up and running smoothly.... George II Nov 2019 #14
Canada's national healthcare was instituted in 1963. luvtheGWN Nov 2019 #15
Thanks. Yes, I read that in the 19601s Saskatchewan implemented universal healthcare... George II Nov 2019 #17
Let the gnashing of teeth commence. TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #9
Do you honestly DownriverDem Nov 2019 #20
Raise taxes in billionaires? Hell yes. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #29
Will be interesting to see how Sanders and Warren reconcile the overall cost. Sanders says $34 T Hoyt Nov 2019 #13
Statement from Biden campaign Gothmog Nov 2019 #16
The implication that Warren is deceitful is pretty .... deceitful. blm Nov 2019 #27
You mean like telling candidates who disagree that they were "running in the wrong primary"? Tarheel_Dem Nov 2019 #43
Oct16/ Biden warns Warren is conning people like Trump blm Nov 2019 #44
Someone should tell Sen. Warren that Joe has been a loyal Democrat for his whole adult life. Tarheel_Dem Nov 2019 #45
Warren took a number of low blows before finally blm Nov 2019 #46
A lot of damage has been done. Fixing it is going to hurt, no matter what. Saviolo Nov 2019 #18
Yes, but DownriverDem Nov 2019 #21
On billionaires? Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #30
Poor widdle billionaires wellst0nev0ter Nov 2019 #22
This is a smart plan with the essentially no new taxes on the middle class. nt. andym Nov 2019 #23
And yet the opponents to mfa here ignore that Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #31
This plan would essentially save middle class and even most upper class families a lot of money. nt. andym Nov 2019 #32
You and I know that. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #33
Yes, but, some here are intent on spinning it for their candidate even blm Nov 2019 #36
So was Warren lying before or lying now? dansolo Nov 2019 #40
Progressive taxation is exactly what is needed I_UndergroundPanther Nov 2019 #37
That claim is not true Gothmog Nov 2019 #38
Wow.. what's going on here!? Cha Nov 2019 #39
So taxes on companies are taxes on the middle class? Not true. andym Nov 2019 #41
What have we spent so far in the Middle East since Bush's lies? rockfordfile Nov 2019 #42
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
1. "$20.5 trillion package of tax increases"
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 09:29 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
6. You prefer the $34 trillion in costs we're all paying now?
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:09 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
10. Why do you say that?
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:19 AM
Nov 2019

You have no idea what caused my reaction.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
25. Well, your post implied that the $20 trillion was too high.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:19 PM
Nov 2019

If I misread the post then perhaps you can clarify it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
34. My post implied nothing
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:00 PM
Nov 2019

Game over.

You lose.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
35. Odd tone. Not sure why
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:04 PM
Nov 2019

but, you post as if we are combatants.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cilla4progress

(24,589 posts)
24. Do you ever get tired
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:33 PM
Nov 2019

of repeating yourself?

I don't know how politicians do it!

😂

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Watchfoxheadexplodes

(3,496 posts)
7. And Republicans will hammer this
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:12 AM
Nov 2019

Nice visit at the top of polls for a bit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
12. They will hammer it even if they liked it, they'll make up something ... anything true or not. I don
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:53 AM
Nov 2019

... Don't think we should mention what the KGOP does a counter to anything.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DownriverDem

(6,207 posts)
19. Yep
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:53 AM
Nov 2019

It will be very nasty. We are a Center/Left country and we need a Center/Left candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
26. Because center left will vote for extreme right Trump over
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:22 PM
Nov 2019

A left Dem? This isn’t 2016 - Trump has shown his fascist cards the past 3 years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
2. Not sure how that would work out
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 09:33 AM
Nov 2019

Some here already mentioned that they like their healthcare that is at least in part supported by the employer. This plan supposedly would require those companies to contribute these funds to the government. In theory, it may seem to be a good starting point to see all the current expenses as one and go from there. But doesn't that punish companies more who wanted to provide good healthcare for their employees while it also has to cover those whose companies didn't make this investment?

I don't say that Warren is on the wrong track but I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just say what she hints at indirectly: Your expenses wouldn't increase but a tax increase for all might not be avoidable to pay for the security that you don't go bankrupt because of an illness or injury.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,632 posts)
28. Companies currently providing good plans
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:36 PM
Nov 2019

would likely see their per employee costs go down, not up. Those who are providing only the bare minimum would probably be paying more per employee.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
4. We need more than 20.5 trillion dollars in Tax increases to properly fund MFA
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 09:38 AM
Nov 2019

We need a payroll tax increase to place the program on a firm, financial footing ………..I m for MFA , but I'm also a realist

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LeftTurn3623

(628 posts)
5. EW will have payroll deductions to help pay for it
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 09:51 AM
Nov 2019

People are getting payroll deductions now to pay for their heathcare - not even sure why this is an issue unless they have to pay more

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
8. "....unless they have to pay more" - and that's the big thing that no one has quantified yet.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:12 AM
Nov 2019

We need to hear something like "You're paying $xxxx now, you'll pay $yyyy under my plan, less than $xxxx."

In her plan, she also says there will be a tax on "increased take-home pay" (presumably the increase is what people won't be paying for their portion of insurance that they're paying now). So it's an implication that you won't be paying directly for insurance through your employer, but you will be paying for it anyway. The savings are being eaten away here and there.

Now I see that she's proposing to increase her "wealth tax". She's been saying "just two cents per dollar" for months, that's no longer two cents, it's higher.

What we really need, from every candidate, is a table/spreadsheet detailing everything - "this is where we stand today, this is where we'll stand after the plan goes into effect".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
11. How does she plan to curb the exorbitant costs of private hospital corporations
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:49 AM
Nov 2019

and Big Pharma?

It's astounding to me that a colonoscopy here in Ontario costs the Ministry of Health just under $500, while in at least one part of the US the hospital bills the insurance company $5,000 for the same procedure. FYI our surgeons are paid per procedure, and our hospitals receive annual budgets from the Ministry but have volunteer Boards of Trustees.

The elimination of vast hospital accounts departments with staff having to deal with the multitude of insurance plans would save significant dollars.

Our prescription costs are generally 50 to 90% less because the Ministry deals with the drug companies for what I like to call group cost-savings, or "buy in bulk".

But, I'm terribly afraid that Americans' trust in government to manage healthcare for all is largely non-existent, no matter how many examples of cost-saving (both personal and universal) are shown. Warren has a very high mountain to climb and overcome. And her "plan" will end up being a 300-page and largely un-read book.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
14. Too many of the candidates' "plans" assume they'll be up and running smoothly....
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:04 AM
Nov 2019

...in a few years and the cost savings will be immediate. That's not going to happen. Canada's system is more than 35 years old. Wonder how efficient and inexpensive it was 30 years ago.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
15. Canada's national healthcare was instituted in 1963.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:33 AM
Nov 2019

It didn't have the hassles because very few folks had private insurance coverage. Management of the plan was delegated to each provincial Ministry of Health, with payments coming from the federal government -- although if I'm in Alberta and require hospitalization, Ontario will reimburse -- so it's transferrable among all provinces and territories.

There were private hospitals (mostly Roman Catholic ones) but they were happy to be taken over by the provincial ministries of health!

So, in those respects the situation was very different, and certainly not insurmountable.

Curiously, when the Premier of Saskatchewan, Tommy Douglas*, first instituted province-wide government healthcare, the province's doctors went on strike. Why? because they feared they wouldn't get paid as much. When they realized they would, indeed, be paid, and wouldn't need to hire bill collectors for unpaid accounts, they came back to work.

*Douglas was Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather, which is largely why Kiefer is so passionate about universal healthcare.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
17. Thanks. Yes, I read that in the 19601s Saskatchewan implemented universal healthcare...
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:40 AM
Nov 2019

...and it became a series of individual provincial and territorial programs. It became unified and national in 1984. That's where I got my 35 years from. Even this may not be 100% accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
9. Let the gnashing of teeth commence.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:17 AM
Nov 2019

Good on Warren.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DownriverDem

(6,207 posts)
20. Do you honestly
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:55 AM
Nov 2019

think folks will vote to get rid of their insurance or raise taxes? I don't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,632 posts)
29. Raise taxes in billionaires? Hell yes.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:39 PM
Nov 2019

The proposed MFA plans are superior to almost all private plans, and would drastically reduce individual healthcare costs.

Yeah nobody wants a better plan at a lower cost.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
13. Will be interesting to see how Sanders and Warren reconcile the overall cost. Sanders says $34 T
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:56 AM
Nov 2019

and Warren now says it's $52 T, over 10 years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
16. Statement from Biden campaign
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:34 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
27. The implication that Warren is deceitful is pretty .... deceitful.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:27 PM
Nov 2019

Shame on Kate Bedingfield.

The campaigns were supposed to be better than this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tarheel_Dem

(31,211 posts)
43. You mean like telling candidates who disagree that they were "running in the wrong primary"?
Tue Nov 5, 2019, 05:47 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
44. Oct16/ Biden warns Warren is conning people like Trump
Tue Nov 5, 2019, 08:26 AM
Nov 2019

Last edited Tue Nov 5, 2019, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Yep, attacking her as not credible, a liar. Because they disagree?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/us/politics/joe-biden-elizabeth-warren.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tarheel_Dem

(31,211 posts)
45. Someone should tell Sen. Warren that Joe has been a loyal Democrat for his whole adult life.
Tue Nov 5, 2019, 08:32 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
46. Warren took a number of low blows before finally
Tue Nov 5, 2019, 08:36 AM
Nov 2019

hitting back. She’s been pretty kind and patient with Biden camp who has been ruthless in targeting her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Saviolo

(3,270 posts)
18. A lot of damage has been done. Fixing it is going to hurt, no matter what.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:45 AM
Nov 2019

Any candidate that comes out and says that fixing a system as unbalanced as in the US without some pain is flat-out lying. Trump has done a great deal of damage. Imagine it like he shot the system. Well, now we've got to take the bullet out, and that's going to hurt. It's going to suck.

Which is a way of saying it's going to be expensive. There are going to have to be short term losses and expenses in order to secure the long-term stability. Of course the GOP can't look long term, and are only concerned about what will happen to their pocketbook tomorrow, and they've got a lot of people happy to parrot the idea that the short-term losses are the only effect, and ignore any long-term improvements.

And the job loss numbers in the private insurance industry are significant, but are far more significant than they have any right to be. The same thing's going to happen in California with the abolition of for-profit prisons. As I saw in a tweet recently:

I am sorry that for-profit prison workers will lose their jobs.
I am not sorry that for-profit prison workers will lose their jobs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DownriverDem

(6,207 posts)
21. Yes, but
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:56 AM
Nov 2019

folks are not going to go along with losing their private insurance or raise taxes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,632 posts)
30. On billionaires?
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:40 PM
Nov 2019

And why wouldn’t I want a better plan at a much lower cost?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

wellst0nev0ter

(7,509 posts)
22. Poor widdle billionaires
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:23 PM
Nov 2019

Yeah, let's keep caping for people who will STILL be rich under an aggressive wealth tax


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

andym

(5,441 posts)
23. This is a smart plan with the essentially no new taxes on the middle class. nt.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:29 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,632 posts)
31. And yet the opponents to mfa here ignore that
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:43 PM
Nov 2019

and just repeat the talking points.

Apparently they are going to have to have their shitty expensive private insurance plans ripped from their cold dead fingers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

andym

(5,441 posts)
32. This plan would essentially save middle class and even most upper class families a lot of money. nt.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:45 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,632 posts)
33. You and I know that.
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:52 PM
Nov 2019

The big health lobby has done its job well and gotten their meme out their that somehow replacing expensive inadequate private insurance with comprehensive universal public insurance is a bad thing, even if it costs each of us a lot less for a lot more.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
36. Yes, but, some here are intent on spinning it for their candidate even
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:31 PM
Nov 2019

Knowing that it would be best for the greatest number of their fellow citizens.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
40. So was Warren lying before or lying now?
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 07:52 AM
Nov 2019

Earlier, her message was that taxes will go up, but they will be lower than what is currently paid for premiums. Now the message is that taxes won't go up at all. Or she is peddling the false narrative that all of the costs previously paid by employers will suddenly end up in the worker's paychecks, even though it won't be available because she is also dramatically increasing taxes that the employers will need to pay.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,452 posts)
37. Progressive taxation is exactly what is needed
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:43 PM
Nov 2019

Because it taxes people more who are rich.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
38. That claim is not true
Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:49 PM
Nov 2019

Warren's plan has what is effectively a tax on the middle clas



Right now, Warren's plan says, employers spend about $9 trillion a decade on health insurance coverage. Her plan aims to move the private spending onto the federal budget. Under her proposal, large employers who currently pay for health coverage would be required to pay a comparable amount (equivalent to 98 percent of what they pay now, adjusted for the number of workers they employ) in order to help finance Medicare for All.

Warren shies away from calling this a tax, and she even claims "we don't need to raise taxes on the middle class by one penny to finance Medicare for All." Instead, she refers to it as an employer Medicare contribution, under which companies "would send payments to the federal government for Medicare."

But there is a commonly accepted term for a plan that requires companies to send payments to the federal government in order to finance government programs. That word is tax. And that is essentially what this is—a nearly $9 trillion payroll tax (or, perhaps, a head tax with some small-business carve outs). It is thus hard to see this as anything other than a massive middle-class tax hike.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,929 posts)
39. Wow.. what's going on here!?
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 06:28 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

andym

(5,441 posts)
41. So taxes on companies are taxes on the middle class? Not true.
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:37 AM
Nov 2019

That is just not true. A company is not a person (except a sole proprietorship, which would be exempt), unless you agree with Mitt Romney that "corporations are people too". This is the same incorrect reasoning as the "Reason" article you posted. Conservative Rubin is just parroting the "Reason" article.
By this reasoning, Trump really did give the middle class a giant tax cut last year when most of the benefit was given to corporations.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rockfordfile

(8,682 posts)
42. What have we spent so far in the Middle East since Bush's lies?
Tue Nov 5, 2019, 01:59 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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