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Undecided 44%
Elizabeth Warren20%
Joe Biden15%
Bernie Sanders9%
Pete Buttigieg5%

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 01:46 AM

 

The Tax (and Wage) Implications of Sander's M4A

If you haven't visited Citizens for Tax Justice CTJ.ORG you're missing out. CTJ has been a resource as long as I can remember.

This is their 2016 break down of the tax effects of Sanders M4A. Since Warren has endorsed Sanders plan then this should cover the broad strokes of her plan as well.
https://www.ctj.org/pdf/sandershealthplanfull.pdf


The tax changes that Sanders has proposed to pay for his health plan are the following:

#A new 6.2 percent employer-paid payroll tax on all wages.

#Reforms to the estate tax, including loophole closers, a higher top tax rate, and a lower exemption (as President Obama has proposed in his budgets).

#A 2.2 percent income tax on personal taxable income (with no credits allowed against this tax).

#Higher personal income tax rates on the wealthy, taxing capital gains and dividends at thesame rates as regular income (for those making more than $250,000 a year), and limiting the value of itemized deductions to 28 percent of each dollar deducted.

The higher tax rates (up to a top marginal income tax rate of 52 percent on income in excessof $10 million) and limiting the maximum tax savings from itemized deductions to 28 percent would be implemented in an elegant way, by changing the tax rates above the 28 percent bracket into an add-on tax on adjusted gross income, before deductions. This approach would also allow repeal of the individual Alternative Minimum Tax, the current partialdisallowance of itemized deductions, and the phase-out of personal and dependent exemptions


Four short pages, mostly easy to read tables.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

11 replies, 596 views

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Tax (and Wage) Implications of Sander's M4A (Original post)
Buzz cook Oct 31 OP
James48 Oct 31 #1
Blue_true Oct 31 #9
George II Oct 31 #2
Buzz cook Oct 31 #7
Blue_true Oct 31 #10
TidalWave46 Oct 31 #3
Buzz cook Oct 31 #8
TidalWave46 Nov 1 #11
redqueen Oct 31 #4
Buzz cook Oct 31 #6
Uncle Joe Oct 31 #5

Response to Buzz cook (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:36 AM

1. So to all those idiots saying 92% tax rate

 

The answer is no- a 6.2% tax instead of insurance premiums, a 2% flat tax on everybody, including the rich, and a top rate of 52% on your $10th million and above.

And no more health insurance premiums. Ever.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to James48 (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 09:47 PM

9. Corporations should be for this plan.

 

For example, say it has a married, two child employee that makes $100,000 per year. The employee's family health insurance policy likely runs $1300-$2000 per month in most states. If the employee has to come up with 20%, then the company's share is $13,680-$19,200 per year, or 13.6-19.2% of the employee's salary. By off-loading that for a 6.2% tax, the company would save thousands per employee.

The one drawback is with small businesses that don't currently offer health insurance to employees, a relatively large part of the employment market. Such companies would face a new tax that could be problematic for many of them. In such cases, if the small company competes against a larger company, the larger company would gain an even bigger advantage over it's smaller competitor.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Buzz cook (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 08:48 AM

2. I don't think anyone has rolled up the numbers to determine the total amount these taxes....

 

....would yield in dollars.

We see % of this, % of that, etc. but no $ total.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 08:31 PM

7. Because we can't tell the future.

 

The number of people changes monthly for one thing.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/192361/unadjusted-monthly-number-of-full-time-employees-in-the-us/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/192356/number-of-full-time-employees-in-the-usa-since-1990/

At best we can do very rough estimates.

Its like me asking how much money you will have in the bank this time next year.

The analysis does cover individual costs and savings. But once again those may change as circumstances change.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to George II (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 09:56 PM

10. Excellent point George. BUT...

 

You can't say how much systemic money covering every American would save the government, companies and individuals. For a healthy person like me, I would likely end up paying out more since my healthcare expenses are basically premiums, I don't have hospitalization, a big medicine bill or Doctor bill (outside of routine checkups and labs, which my insurance pays).

There is empirical evidence from other countries that have universal healthcare (I admit, all are much smaller than we are with people that do a better job of taking care of themselves) that systemic costs to every entity drops dramatically, if we saw such a drop, that goes into trillions of dollars saved.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Buzz cook (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 09:02 AM

3. Sanders doesn't know what he would do. From his own page.

 

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TidalWave46 (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 08:42 PM

8. Congress writes the bills

 

Your link covers much the same ground as CTJ.org.

They are options because congress will decide how to fund the bill.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:30 AM

11. "Congress writes the bills..."

 

Highly inaccurate understanding of how bills are written.

That said, your comment does back my statement.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Buzz cook (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 AM

4. "phase-out of personal and dependent exemptions"

 

Not sure I understand this.

Is this referring to dependent exemptions as in the standard deduction that most low wage people use when filing federal income taxes?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Andrew Yang

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Response to redqueen (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 08:14 PM

6. For people making over 10 million

 

I've bolded relevant bits

higher tax rates (up to a top marginal income tax rate of 52 percent on income in excess of $10 million) and limiting the maximum tax savings from itemized deductions to 28 percent would be implemented in an elegant way, by changing the tax rates above the 28 percent bracket into an add-on tax on adjusted gross income, before deductions. This approach would also allow repeal of the individual Alternative Minimum Tax, the current partial disallowance of itemized deductions, and the phase-out of personal and dependent exemptions.


Basically its a soak the rich bit.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Buzz cook (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 11:38 AM

5. Kicked and recommended

 

Thanks for the thread Buzz cook.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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