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Wed Oct 30, 2019, 07:43 PM

 

Biden aide: 'Alarming' that Sanders won't release details of paying for 'Medicare for All'

Former Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign is attacking Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) for saying he does not need to release details on how to pay for "Medicare for All" right away, part of an escalating battle over the issue in the Democratic presidential primary.

“It’s alarming that Senator Sanders, who has been up-front for years that Medicare for All would require middle class tax hikes, won’t tell voters 'right now' how much more they will pay in taxes because of his plan,” Biden deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield said in a statement. “If not now, then when?”

She was responding to Sanders’s comments to CNBC, in an interview published Tuesday, when Sanders downplayed the need to release details on how to pay for his signature health care policy.

“You’re asking me to come up with an exact detailed plan of how every American — how much you’re going to pay more in taxes, how much I’m going to pay,” Sanders said. “I don’t think I have to do that right now.”

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/468192-biden-aide-alarming-that-sanders-wont-release-details-of-paying-for
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Reply Biden aide: 'Alarming' that Sanders won't release details of paying for 'Medicare for All' (Original post)
George II Oct 30 OP
DownriverDem Oct 30 #1
ritapria Oct 30 #2
George II Oct 30 #3
oldsoftie Oct 30 #4
George II Oct 30 #17
comradebillyboy Oct 30 #27
George II Oct 30 #28
comradebillyboy Oct 30 #30
boomer_wv Oct 30 #25
oldsoftie Oct 31 #35
boomer_wv Oct 31 #37
oldsoftie Oct 31 #41
Buzz cook Oct 31 #32
oldsoftie Oct 31 #36
boomer_wv Oct 31 #38
oldsoftie Oct 31 #39
boomer_wv Oct 31 #40
oldsoftie Oct 31 #42
boomer_wv Oct 31 #43
oldsoftie Oct 31 #45
BlueMTexpat Nov 4 #59
oldsoftie Nov 4 #61
BlueMTexpat Nov 4 #63
oldsoftie Nov 4 #65
BlueMTexpat Nov 4 #58
oldsoftie Nov 4 #62
BlueMTexpat Nov 4 #64
Hoyt Oct 30 #29
TCJ70 Oct 30 #5
Thekaspervote Oct 30 #6
Cha Oct 30 #9
Thekaspervote Oct 30 #15
George II Oct 30 #7
Cha Oct 30 #8
George II Oct 30 #10
Cha Oct 30 #12
Thekaspervote Oct 30 #16
Cha Oct 30 #19
mcar Oct 31 #44
emmaverybo Oct 30 #11
melman Oct 30 #13
George II Oct 30 #18
melman Oct 30 #22
George II Oct 30 #23
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 31 #54
Cha Oct 30 #14
WobblyDem Oct 30 #20
George II Oct 30 #21
WobblyDem Oct 30 #31
ehrnst Oct 31 #49
Cha Oct 31 #33
WobblyDem Oct 31 #34
Cha Oct 31 #46
George II Oct 31 #47
Cha Oct 31 #48
ehrnst Oct 31 #51
ehrnst Oct 31 #50
myohmy2 Oct 30 #24
George II Oct 30 #26
LonePirate Oct 31 #52
Cha Oct 31 #53
Gothmog Oct 31 #55
Hortensis Nov 1 #56
Cha Nov 4 #57
crazytown Nov 4 #60

Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:02 PM

1. Many

 

are not so sure about Medicare for All so details have to be released.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:14 PM

2. Under MFA

 

Taxes go up less than the amount health care expenses go down ………...Most people come out a winner ……...MFA is not a Utopian Fantasy ……………..It has been a success in Canada and across Europe ...We don't have to go to the extreme of establishing a National Health Service - as they have done in the UK …..
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Response to ritapria (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:17 PM

3. We don't know that, that's why we need details. Just because someone says so doesn't make it fact...

 

...(not referring to you, but Sanders)
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Response to ritapria (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:19 PM

4. And all those countries also have a Sales Tax. Which we need, but everyone ignores.

 

I'll beat that drum every day. We have trillions of dollars of untaxed income. A sales tax will finally tax that money as well as making the rich pay far more.
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:28 PM

17. Denmark, which is held up at one of the leading examples, has a personal income tax of 55%!!

 

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Response to George II (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 11:03 PM

27. And a 25% value added tax on all sales.

 

European social welfare benefits are very expensive.
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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #27)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 11:05 PM

28. In other words, you can earn money, but you'd better not spend it!

 

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Response to George II (Reply #28)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 11:08 PM

30. Still they do manage a good standard of living with what's

 

left after taxes.
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:52 PM

25. Why a sales tax?

 

They are regressive.

Poorer people pay on a higher proportion of their income.

Somebody who has to live paycheck to paycheck spends all of their income, so they are essentially taxed on 100% of income. a CEO might only spend 5% of their income yearly, so they would be taxed on 5%.

I'd rather see 0 sales tax.
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Response to boomer_wv (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 06:20 AM

35. If you want benefits, you have to PAY for them. See the responses above yours

 

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 09:40 AM

37. Sure.

 

But it seems pretty foolish to levy that tax disproportionately against the people who need the benefit most.
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Response to boomer_wv (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 AM

41. You can exempt the lower income people. Why are these other countries happier?

 

All the countries mentioned by others always rate happier than the US. Its the same old story every time; we all want "X" but only propose funding plans that wont raise whats needed. Meanwhile, trillions of dollars go untaxed.
The rich WOULD pay more. They SPEND a lot of money living their lifestyle. And no more hidden income. How is that not obvious? Do you know how many people file "stated income" returns? How easy it is to avoid income taxes?
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 01:08 AM

32. Sales taxes are regressive

 

The working class ends up paying a higher percentage in taxes than the upper class.
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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #32)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 06:21 AM

36. See #17. 27 & 30. If you want benefits, you have to PAY for them. EVERYONE.

 

Every other country realizes this except the US
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:06 AM

38. It's a RW

 

Talking point. They have been begging for a sales tax for years because they know it would help the richest people most. I dont want benefits if it means taxing the poor into oblivion.

Also, consumer spending is the driving force of the US economy. Increasing sales tax will hurt that and then you end up with a recession under your watch.
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Response to boomer_wv (Reply #38)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

39. Bullshit. Everyone instantly screams "RW talking point!". It helps in these other countries.

 

You want to exempt the "poor", fine. Give them a rebate monthly that would equal what they'd spend up to a certain income level.
Local governments use SPLOSTs all the time to fund big ticket projects. And they WORK.
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #39)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 AM

40. It is

 

The Heritage Foundation has been calling for a national sales tax and a flat tax for over 20 years. Are they right wing enough for you?
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Response to boomer_wv (Reply #40)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:24 AM

42. They would probably also support curing cancer. I support it because it would work

 

It works in EVERY county across the country that tries it. And its voted on.
If its SO right wing, then why has it not been put to a vote when the GOP has been in control of all 3 branches of govt? Because THEY also know they'd pay more tax.
Why is it used in the far more liberal EU countries, among others, if its such a RW thing?

The fact is, we cannot get enough money from the "rich" no matter what rate you make them pay. The numbers are there for anyone who wants to see them
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:44 AM

43. If you

 

Have to resort to regressive taxes...maybe you should look to cut spending first. That's better then asking somebody to choose between groceries or bills.

Thats what's Ramen is for I guess.
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Response to boomer_wv (Reply #43)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 AM

45. I already explained how you can exempt the lower income folks.

 

And you cant cut enough spending to come up with another trillion dollars. And a trillion is just a START.
A VAT isnt the total solution, but it would a good part of one. It will take many different things, some of them not popular. You must increase revenue as well as reduce spending. But on what? The military is alwys the favorite to hit. But even cutting them by 1/2 (which would be impossible in todays world) wouldnt be NEARLY enough.
Its kinda like windmills; everyone thinks they're a great idea but nobody wants them near THEIR neighborhood.
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #36)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 06:06 AM

59. EVERYONE in those

 

other countries also has a functioning social safety net. I know because I reside in one.

The USA does not.
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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #59)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 06:53 AM

61. Isnt that the point of the programs we're trying to pass? Yes.

 

So start looking at their costs realistically and ways to realistically fund them
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #61)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 07:27 AM

63. The thing is that

 

the VAT was instituted AFTER there were functioning social safety nets in those countries, not before. In 1993, in fact.

It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. And it is STILL criticized - and rightly so - as regressive, which is a very valid criticism anywhere poverty is currently a major issue, as is the case in the US.

******************

For a read-through, see: https://www.bkd.com/sites/default/files/2018-10/european-value-added-tax.pdf

From the link:

... The current EU VAT system came into effect on 1 January 1993. With the introduction of the single market in 1993, fiscal customs based controls at the internal EU Member State borders were abolished in favour of a new VAT system of control for intraCommunity trade. Under this new VAT system, local VAT legislation has been respected and therefore maintained. The 1993 VAT system resulted in the elimination of around 60 million customs documents a year, leading to a significant relief in the administrative burden faced by EU businesses. Although existing local VAT legislations in the EU have been respected, they have been integrated to a certain extent through the introduction of a single EU VAT Directive.

The European VAT Directive dictates VAT regulations that all EU Member States are required to implement. However, it does allow EU Member States to introduce exceptions and partial revocations (derogations) from the VAT regulations, as stated in the directive. Moreover, the directive does not set the VAT rates that EU Member States must apply. Only a minimum rate of 15% is set. This means that VAT rates differ widely. Currently, EU Member States apply standard rates ranging from between 15% and 27%.
They may also apply one or two reduced rates, with a minimum of 5%.
...
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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #63)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 08:51 AM

65. I doubt the EU has nearly as big a problem as the US with untaxed income.

 

And unless you are willing to let the Government become SO intrusive into every aspect of our lives, more so than they already are, this money will continue to be untaxed. A VAT taxes that money, and its likely a trillion dollars or more. NO proposal put forth by any Dem candidates will ever tax that money. "Stated income" earners are a big segment of the workforce. These folks can put ANY number down that they want. And its not just criminals & laborers. Its many well paying technical jobs, private businesses, professionals, etc. Its a TON of money out there not getting taxed. I'm looking at the big puzzle. This is a part of putting it together. Fantasy projections will make todays debt look like pocket change. I think its obvious to everyone who really looks at real numbers. Its just that they dont WANT to see the reality. Sure, a sales tax hits poorer people harder. I dont care. I've already shown how to take away that extra hit from those people. But it seems as though "getting the rich" is more important to many people (i'm not saying you) than realistically trying to get real funding and push bills that may actually have a chance at passing in Congress. MFA does NOT.
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 06:03 AM

58. I believe that you mean

 

a value-added tax (VAT): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/valueaddedtax.asp

What is a Value-Added Tax (VAT)?
A value-added tax (VAT) is a consumption tax placed on a product whenever value is added at each stage of the supply chain, from production to the point of sale. The amount of VAT that the user pays is on the cost of the product, less any of the costs of materials used in the product that have already been taxed.

More than 160 countries around the world use value-added taxation, and it is most commonly found in the European Union. But it is not without controversy. Advocates say it raises government revenues without punishing success or wealth, as income taxes do, and it is simpler and more standardized than a traditional sales tax, with fewer compliance issues. Critics charge that a VAT is essentially a regressive tax that places an increased economic strain on lower-income taxpayers, and also adds bureaucratic burdens for businesses.

Value-added taxation is based on a taxpayer's consumption rather than their income. In contrast to a progressive income tax, which levies greater taxes on higher-level earners, VAT applies equally to every purchase.
...


***************
Both the VAT and sales taxes are considered to be regressive. i.e., taking a larger percentage of income from low-income earners than from high-income earners. They are in opposition to a progressive tax, which takes a larger percentage from high-income earners.

I reside in one of the countries that uses the VAT. I prefer progressive taxation, which is what Elizabeth Warren also favors.
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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 06:55 AM

62. Yet people in these other countries are usualluy rated happier than the US.

 

they're not complaining about their VATs.
And pretty much every EU country that has tried a "wealth tax" has scrapped it because it doesnt raise nearly what they expected. Which is exactly what would happen here
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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 07:31 AM

64. I think that you really

 

need to read up more on the VAT and also on EU safety nets. Please see my other response.

In too many ways, you are putting the cart before the horse.
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Response to ritapria (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 11:07 PM

29. Just tell us what the average Jane/Joe will pay at different income levels.

 

Seems simple.

Some folks would prefer to see what they’ll likely pay. If he can’t/won’t do it, I think most would prefer a Public Option that they can compare to other options.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:28 PM

5. Has Biden detailed down to the penny what his costs?

 

How he pays for it? And how he plans to pass it? Ya know, the common questions moderates never have to answer...
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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:38 PM

6. Here's the details

 

Also, those enrolled in an Obamacare plan would have to pay no more than 8.5% of their income -- instead of the current 9.86% -- in premiums. A family of four earning $110,000 annually would save about $750 a month in premiums, the campaign said.
And he would base those subsidies on the cost of "gold plans," which have higher premiums but lower deductibles, rather than less generous "silver plans." That means people could spend less money out of pocket -- or could use the larger subsidies to buy less expensive silver or bronze plans. This move would help address a major criticism of Obamacare -- that its deductibles are too high. The average deductible for an enrollee under Obamacare in a "gold plan" is just under $1,600 in 2019, while for a "silver plan," it's just over $4,000, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
More at the link


https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/15/politics/joe-biden-health-care-plan-obamacare-public-option/index.html

Biden’s plan is more plausible. It would extend coverage to as many as 26 million people but only require $122 billion in new government spending. That’s a lot of money, but still just 4% of the cost of Medicare for All. Undocumented immigrants wouldn’t get “free” coverage, but they’d be able to pay the going rate to join a public option, essentially covering their own costs.
More at the link

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/joe-biden-health-plan-medicare-for-all-040109177.html

CBO came out 2-3 weeks ago with a study showing mfa would cost 32 trillion over 10 years
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:48 PM

9. Mahalo, Kasper, for the details of Biden's

 

Health plan.
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Response to Cha (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:19 PM

15. Hi Cha!

 

Biden’s plan to strengthen the ACA is gaining popularity as it becomes clear just how much mfa would cost.

Too, lots and lots of employees do not want to give up their health insurance...

Go Joe!!
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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:42 PM

7. Please, let's not get into whataboutism, please. We're talking about a proposal that Sanders....

 

....has been talking about for years, and now at this late date he can't even tell us how he's going to fund it.

Biden hasn't made the cornerstone of his campaign "Medicare for All" (a term that Sanders didn't even originate!).

Biden's thing is a proven quantity, the Affordable Care Act, and building on it. He's not proposing that we scrap an existing program, ACA, or indeed, Medicare as we know it which has been successful since the Johnson Administration. He's not proposing throwing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people out of their jobs in the private insurance segment.

With Sanders it's basically a situation of "trust me, give me the nomination and THEN we'll tell you how we'll pay for it." Doesn't work that way. After all these years, he should at least have some idea how he's going to fund it, and NOT with "several options".
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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:46 PM

8. Bernie on releasing a plan to pay for MFA: "I don't think I have to do that right now."

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287327862

Good! Sanders' campaign has been questioning EW not addressing this, right? And, then BS says this?!

Mahalo, George
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Response to Cha (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:49 PM

10. I forgot about that criticism of Warren. Good catch!

 

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Response to George II (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:56 PM

12. Thanks, George..

 


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Response to Cha (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:24 PM

16. Just my opinion but EW should have untethered herself from sanders long ago- worked out her

 

Own ideas and plans and gone with those.

Too late to do that now
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:43 PM

19. I agree, Kasper..

 

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:59 AM

44. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:53 PM

11. When the candidate mentions higher taxes, he or she should expect people to want and deserve

 

a ball-park estimate. Most understand M4All will be very costly. Naturally, they want to know if they are in for a modest or fairly high tax increase. I mean how impertinent!
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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:12 PM

13. OMG

 

What about the PLEDGE?!?!
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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:32 PM

18. If DU were twitter, which maintains accurate metrics, you would be my #1 follower...

 

Thanks so much for the support, I truly appreciate it!

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Response to George II (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:30 PM

22. Oh

 

Do we have to go through message board 101 again? Okay.



See, on a message board people post stuff and then other people respond.


And that's how that works. The end.
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Response to melman (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:48 PM

23. No, don't bother. Yes, I realize what you "explained" here, but you're leaving out quite a bit....

 

....There's more to it than that, I'm sure you know.

And THAT is how that works. The end?

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Response to melman (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 06:38 PM

54. Had no idea!! Thanks for the education... the things you learn here!!

 




Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Bernie Sanders

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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:16 PM

14. Joe Biden's health plan looks like the winner

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287319357
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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:14 PM

20. Doubt it isn't costed, but the establishment will take any ammo to concern troll

 

He's pretty obviously just being quiet about it so parties financed by private insurance and pharmaceutical giants (Biden, Pete, Comcast/MSNBC, Fox et al) don't have a soundbite. Not that they're not trying to sabotage the US finally receiving the same medical treatment the rest of the OECD and first world enjoys.

Taxes are going to be raised to pay for M4All, but the increase will be laughably small to criticize - even if it was paid for strictly with income tax. Even if you had a FLAT tax increase of 6%, not scaling it with incomes like the system does now, you would cover the cost completely. The majority of Americans pay 20%(!!) of their income on health insurance. Even if Bernie really went to the GE saying voting for him increased taxes by 6% but gave a FIFTH of most Americans income back to pay for it, that's awesome and easily marketable policy.

In any case, Americans are paying twice as much for healthcare as the rest of the (developed) world. Even if they didn't tinker and outright intended to raise taxes by the logical conclusion of the equivalent cost: 10%(!), it would still ultimately be half what Americans fork out not to die in front of a hospital. While also ending epidemics like undiagnosed sight issues in children trying to learn and working poor folks needing to be hospitalized because they couldn't get a tooth infection checked out.

I strongly doubt it not yet being costed. This is just to keep the healthcare of Americans out of the mouth of people running interference for insurance cos - they have already proven they'll make the argument that we simply can't afford to pay half as much as we do now.
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Response to WobblyDem (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:16 PM

21. He's been talking about this for 3-4 years.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 11:13 PM

31. Exactly.

 

Longer, even. Bernie's been vocal about the US not moving with the rest of the world with our healthcare system for decades.

Even if we are just talking about this and last election cycle, he's had ample time to formulate ways to cost it. That's why I think it's clear this is strategy, more than an accounting. He's already stated he'll raise taxes to pay for it, and that blunt answer got pretty expected blunt responses from people paid to complain about such things. If he gets into the specifics about it this early, talking heads will have a target with enough complexity to agree with each other that poor Americans don't deserve healthcare over 20 minute segments.

Just look at how everybody fighting for the insurance companies tried to jump on Warren without specific targets to misconstrue. Every point of nuance is another talking point.

I'd expect details from him, and maybe Warren, when candidates prioritizing profit models for insurance companies are a little further faded.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to WobblyDem (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:15 PM

49. But Ted Kennedy was acting on this back when Bernie was still writing essays, and not voting.

 

And Ted Kennedy and HRC actually got affordable healthcare for millions of low income children who didn't have it via CHIP.

"Being vocal" doesn't get the job done.

Can you name anyone that Senator Sanders has gotten affordable health care for other than Jane or the staff he has hired as government employees?

And welcome to DU.

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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to WobblyDem (Reply #20)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 01:09 AM

33. We don't know if it's "costed" or Not because BS

 

says he doesn't have to talk about it.

Quit trying to Bash excellent Dems running for President by trying to smear them with..

He's pretty obviously just being quiet about it so parties financed by private insurance and pharmaceutical giants (Biden, Pete, Comcast/MSNBC, Fox et al) don't have a soundbite

"..concern troll.."? Who are you calling "trolls"? You have no idea what you're talking about.. just insults.
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Response to Cha (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:41 AM

34. Dems with good personalities aren't dems immune to money

 

Biden and Buttigieg have each received just shy of $100 thousand dollars from the private insurance/pharmaceutical industry as of mid July

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/07/20dems-are-taking-money-healthcare/

Similarly, Bernie had received $36,000 - including nearly half of all donations from nurses/secondary health professionals, 27% of Doctors/first party donors, and 40% of all donations from personal carers. It is safe to assume through this that the vast majority if not all of money from the healthcare industry is from healthcare professionals who will still have their jobs with M4All- not executives who may not, and any healthcare racketeer donors would be outliers.

Biden and Buttigieg, however had only 15% and 9%, 11% and 6%, and 8% and 6%. That means of the two, the highest number we can see negating policy being dictated by the same executives who grow rich on denying Americans healthcare doesn't even hit 20%. That was before Biden gave up on the pantomime of not being in the pocket of big business. Now he's got a SuperPAC set up for those executives to pour money into, that disparity is going to explode. He might as well be John Delaney (who owns his own private healthcare company) in a blonde toupe, then at least we'd have a theme for the debates post-primary.

The fact the two people complaining about Medicare For All the loudest are the two receiving the most money from private insurance executives is no coincidence.

Oh, also - concern trolling would be if someone stated publicly the fact that 50,000 Americans needlessly die because they lack insurance and we can save their lives while cutting costs by implementing a new system BUT someone else, let's say someone hypothetically sharing finances with people profiting off the current infrastructure went out of their way to raise concern where it isn't warranted. "How are we going to pay for it?", even though it would be difficult to implement such a system without halving the price anyway.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll
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Response to WobblyDem (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 02:08 PM

46. I Don't Care.. Quit Bashing Dems.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to WobblyDem (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 02:25 PM

47. Do you know what that first statement entails? I.e.,

 

Biden and Buttigieg have each received just shy of $100 thousand dollars from the private insurance/pharmaceutical industry as of mid July

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/07/20dems-are-taking-money-healthcare/

What this means is that people who work for the "private insurance/pharmaceutical industry" (they're separate industries, by the way!) contributed to them. That could be a cashier at CVS, a janitor at a drug manufacturing plant, a bookeeper for an insurance company, etc. It is NOT from the companies themselves.

Over the years my father, myself, two brothers and one sister worked at banks - father and I in the IT departments ("data processing" at the time), brothers worked as clerks in the backroom, and sister was a teller.

When they contributed they said what their occupations and employers were at the time. Opensecrets lumped all of them in the "financial" or "banking" industry, but they're far from the scourge of political influence. NONE of us were "executives".

Your accusations are way off base.

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Response to George II (Reply #47)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 03:39 PM

48. THANK YOU!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #47)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:32 PM

51. Hear hear! (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Cha (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:27 PM

50. +1000. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to George II (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

24. does this help?

 

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file

...
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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:57 PM

26. No. Six pages of "options" for overhauling the healthcare coverage of 325 million people?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to George II (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:41 PM

52. I find it alarming when a Democrat releases a health care plan that does not cover all Americans

 

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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to George II (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:50 PM

53. It is "Alarming" when a health plan can't be backed up with

 

numbers of how much.

“It’s alarming that Senator Sanders, who has been up-front for years that Medicare for All would require middle class tax hikes, won’t tell voters 'right now' how much more they will pay in taxes because of his plan,” Biden deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield said in a statement. “If not now, then when?”


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Response to George II (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 07:13 PM

55. Joe Biden's slap at Bernie Sanders sends Elizabeth Warren a warning

 




When Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) confessed that even he did not have a way to pay for the plan he devised and Warren signed onto, Biden’s team pounced. In a written statement, communications director Kate Bedingfield declared, “It’s alarming that Senator Sanders, who has been up-front for years that Medicare for All would require middle class tax hikes, won’t tell voters ‘right now’ how much more they will pay in taxes because of his plan. If not now, then when?”

Bedingfield went on to make this both an issue of character and of electability. "When you’re running to take on the most dishonest president in American history, Senator Sanders and others who back Medicare for All have to preserve their credibility,” she argued. “Any candidates who would scrap the Affordable Care Act — not protect it and strengthen it, like Joe Biden will — have an obligation to be straight with the American middle class about the tax increases they’d be forced to shoulder while losing the option of employer-sponsored and other private health insurance.”

It is not difficult to figure out who the “others who back Medicare for All” and “any candidates who would scrap the Affordable Act” might be. Biden’s camp is turning up the pressure on Warren as she rummages around for $30 trillion or so to pay for Medicare-for-all, something she has refused to go into detail about in debates. Biden, as well as South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), did such a good job at the last debate accusing Warren of hiding the ball that she subsequently promised to come up with a financing scheme. She has not done so yet, although she promised 10 days ago:


....Biden’s preemptive attack conveyed two challenges for Warren. First, she is promising to roll back the Affordable Care Act at a time when premiums are going down. She needs to explain the justification for scrapping President Barack Obama’s legacy and do so now. Second, the admonition that candidates have to “preserve their credibility” is aimed at contrasting Warren with the known-commodity Biden. (You know me. I’m not going to double cross you.) Biden has been struggling to convey that he really is a forward-looking candidate but, at times like this, “reliable,” “trustworthy" and “candid” — Biden likes to joke that his gaffes show he speaks his mind — may be the best arguments Biden has, especially to go into a general election race against an incumbent who a large majority of Americans find untrustworthy.
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Response to George II (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:56 PM

56. Yeah, yeah. What'll the cost be for MfA to protect us

 

from a high-altitude nuclear weapon taking out our power grid(s)?

I DO hope that's included since it's the only issue for some here. Also that MfA has the ability to repeal fascism and protect the constitution. It's going to really need it.

And btw, those thousands of terrorized and traumatized kidnapped children are going to need psychiatric care, some for years. Can we hope MfA at least thinks of them, maybe for another decade if not this one?
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Response to George II (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 05:39 AM

57. Get 'im Joe!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 06:33 AM

60. So now the attention may turn to Bernie.

 

Smart move by the Biden campaign. BS has come come up with roast beef to match Warren's magic pudding. It is a cattle prod to get him to criticize Elizabeth's numbers. He can hardly say, under my plan you'll be paying $500 a month, but under Senator Warren's nada.
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