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Undecided 42%
Elizabeth Warren20%
Joe Biden14%
Bernie Sanders12%
Pete Buttigieg6%

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 12:05 AM

 

Bernie's Greatest Error

When asked, Bernie will always self-identify as a Democratic Socialist. Bernie should call himself a “Social Security Democrat” since he is not really a Socialist. He does not advocate that the workers will own the means of production. A lot of voters still associate the word Socialist with Soviet-style communism. Bernie is not a Soviet-style communist; he’s an FDR-style Social Democrat. He wants to upend existing power structures and change them so they benefit the many over the few. His goal is to make America more like Scandinavia. Yet, Bernie keeps shooting himself in the foot by stressing he is a Democratic Socialist.

Words are labels which are shortcuts to thoughts and emotions. It is based on these labels that many Americans think and react to. Trump knows this and is a master in labeling people. So Bernie would be a weak candidate because of the Socialist label. Many voters, especially older ones, will be scared away from him. Socialism as a concept may be popular with a lot of young Americans. They have grown up seeing the failure and inequality of modern American capitalism. But they do not know of the repression associated with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). But their parents do. Advocating for Socialism is a very risky way to try to win a general election.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie's Greatest Error (Original post)
Teach-only-love Oct 2019 OP
brooklynite Oct 2019 #1
Perseus Oct 2019 #5
Hortensis Oct 2019 #8
comradebillyboy Oct 2019 #10
pnwmom Oct 2019 #2
SidDithers Oct 2019 #9
Celerity Oct 2019 #3
ritapria Oct 2019 #4
Joe941 Oct 2019 #6
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #17
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #7
Autumn Oct 2019 #11
Teach-only-love Oct 2019 #13
Autumn Oct 2019 #14
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #16
Autumn Oct 2019 #18
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #19
Teach-only-love Oct 2019 #12
question everything Oct 2019 #15
TidalWave46 Oct 2019 #20
Bartollo Oct 2019 #21

Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 01:55 AM

1. Bernie has already proclaimed himself a socialist

 

He may be smart enough to know that it’s not achievable but he’s too stubborn to rebrand himself.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 06:08 AM

5. No he has not, he was answering to someone who labeled him as a socialist

 

What he said was something like..."if you think advocating health care for all, free education is being socialist then sure, call me a socialist", but he has never, like the original post said, advocated for the rhetoric that socialists spew in other countries.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Perseus (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 07:01 AM

8. Sanders has always, proudly, been a socialist and says so.

 

He's a true believer in universal solutions to common needs through communal ownership and control. He's considered by many observers to be a 1930s-type socialist and has spent most of his life in a mostly peaceful and prosperous nation longing for socialist revolution. Before he was elected to congress and had to appeal to voters statewide, he routinely called for seizing ownership of most means of production and all important services.

However, he's also spent years telling Americans socialism is what we already have. That's NOT okay.

And right now he wants power and can't give socialism away (even though he's still trying to fool people about what it is). So instead he's running on the kind of capitalist, profit-based promises he's zealously believed, and preached, are intrinsically corrupt and exploitative for over 40 years.

"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat."
“I’m a democratic socialist.”

Not to be confused with communist socialists, btw, other end of the socialist spectrum. The "democratic" part of his socialism is that all wouldn't be controlled by a distant central committee like in Russia and China; a lot of control would be local.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Perseus (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 09:20 AM

10. Bernie Sanders "I am a socialist."

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 01:59 AM

2. I agree that "FDR Democrat" or "Social Security Democrat" or even "Social Democrat,"

 

like the Social Democrats of Scandinavia, would have more accurately describe his proposals -- and that Bernie is unnecessarily allowing Trump to brand him as a socialist.

However, I'm not quite sure that the guy who honeymooned in the Soviet Union is really not a traditional socialist, in his heart of hearts. Otherwise, why is he so insistent on calling himself one? Elizabeth Warren, who supports many of the same policies, says she believes in a well-regulated capitalism.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/aug/12/george-will/george-will-reminds-readers-about-bernie-sanders-u/

The "honeymoon" was dotted with meetings, interviews and diplomatic functions. A June 2015 profile in The Guardian described the former mayor’s meeting with Yaroslavl city officials:

"After receiving a rundown of central planning, Soviet-style, from Yaroslavl’s mayor, Alexander Riabkov, Sanders notes how the quality of both housing and health care in America appeared to be ‘significantly better’ than in the communist state. ‘However,’ he added, ‘the cost of both services is much, much, higher in the United States.’ "

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 08:33 AM

9. Bernie's problem with all three of those terms, is that they have the word "Democrat" in them...nt

 

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 03:17 AM

3. I have been saying this for years. He is a bog standard social democrat, not

 

a democratic socialist. It is destructive to falsely self-label as a socialist in reactionary America. You cannot redefine 2 century plus year old terms that are globally cemented both at academic and everyday common life levels. It makes him look both foolish and stubborn.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 06:04 AM

4. He leads Trump in the nationl polls between 5% - 10%

 

When he first was elected in Vermont , they said the state would never elect a Socialist …….Mind you at that time Vermont was a state that almost always voted for the GOP nominee for President …..Now, it's one of the bluest states in the Union Hillary won Vermont with 61% of the vote …...Bernie is one of the most popular Senators , in home state, in the nation ...The GOP doesn't even bother to try to unseat him ………..
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to ritapria (Reply #4)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 06:17 AM

6. Yup. Another day another attack on Bernie.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:35 AM

17. No it's not.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 06:50 AM

7. He made it very clear...

 




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 09:27 AM

11. Not that great of an error, he leads Trump in the polls. Trump can slap any brand on Bernie

 

that he wants. Trump's brands always fail. Always. Democrats are smart enough to know he's not the...Gasp... Bad Socialist. And Republicans? Republicans' don't matter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:21 AM

13. Imagine how big his lead would be

 

if he did not have that frightening Socialist label attached to him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to Teach-only-love (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:23 AM

14. I really can't imagine any Democrat being frightened by the word Socialist. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:34 AM

16. "Leading Trump in the polls" isn't enough. One must also lead in the primaries...

 

"Leading Trump in the polls" isn't enough. That's skipping over a very important process called "the primaries". It does no good to compare him to Trump when his first task is to win the nomination.

Rather than simply "leading Trump", one must also lead in the primaries... and he's clearly not doing that. I see that this whole "leading Trump" thing is the new catch phrase that's being repeated often. I guess it's to distract from the fact that he's far behind other candidates and because he's not likely to win any Southern states either, therefore he will not be selected as our party's nominee.

Basically, he's reached his high-water mark with the polling... he's reached his ceiling. Loyal supporters each and every one... just not enough to allow him to take the lead. In any case, Trump is a very low bar for comparison purposes, I suppose that even I could do better than Trump, but I'm not running for my party's nomination.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:58 AM

18. Fact is we have a few candidates who can easily beat Trump in the GE, the primaries are not over.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 12:07 PM

19. Yes, I know.

 

Fact is we have a few candidates who can easily beat Trump in the GE,
Yes, I know.

the primaries are not over.
Yet the current catch phrase (and those repeating it) suggest a desire to skip right to the General Election, boasting about how BS compares to Trump. All of this completely ignores the fact that BS has embarrassingly low poll numbers (considering his "name recognition" and that he's had a chance to "learn from his mistakes", etc etc.) Considering those anemic polling numbers, I guess I can understand his campaign's desire to gloss-over how poorly he's doing against the DEMOCRATS.

So, whatever. It's just odd, that's all I'm saying.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:12 AM

12. What Bernie calls himself is

 

only important as a political tactic. Socialist has a negative connotation for many Americans, especially those alive during the "Cold War". Social Security has almost a universal positive connotation. It means for many Americans helping to secure a person's welfare (in their old age.) There is no connotation of frightening massive change to an economic system people are familiar with and in most cases comfortable if not happy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Michael Bloomberg

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:28 AM

15. Whatever, he should not call himself DEMOCRAT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 12:19 PM

20. I think he has to be viewed as having far exceeded expectations,

 

Considering his personal limitations, and the label he goes with is a big reason why.

At the end of these primaries Sanders will probably have between seven and ten percent of the vote.

That’s pretty impressive for a career politician with limited accomplishments, proven difficulty building any type of legislative coalition, flown his flag under at least three different political labels, and is a self identified socialist. That’s leaving out the people he surrounds himself with.

I don’t see how he could be doing any better.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Teach-only-love (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2019, 02:08 PM

21. Yawn...

 

repackaged red-baiting garbage with a stench that can be smelled a mile away. Pure sophistry in service to business as usual.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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