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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:14 PM

 

AOC +2 to endorse Bernie Sanders

-- Tlaib and Omar will join AOC in endorsing Bernie, according to CNN.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply AOC +2 to endorse Bernie Sanders (Original post)
True Dough Oct 2019 OP
OldRed2450 Oct 2019 #1
LovingA2andMI Oct 2019 #2
NCLefty Oct 2019 #12
DrToast Oct 2019 #3
JoeOtterbein Oct 2019 #4
Cha Oct 2019 #7
JoeOtterbein Oct 2019 #8
Cha Oct 2019 #10
BeyondGeography Oct 2019 #5
boomer_wv Oct 2019 #6
sheshe2 Oct 2019 #52
JCMach1 Oct 2019 #9
Tarheel_Dem Oct 2019 #11
kcr Oct 2019 #32
Tarheel_Dem Oct 2019 #33
kcr Oct 2019 #36
Tarheel_Dem Oct 2019 #37
kcr Oct 2019 #40
Hortensis Oct 2019 #13
RandiFan1290 Oct 2019 #14
Hortensis Oct 2019 #15
mtmirror Oct 2019 #23
Hortensis Oct 2019 #24
radical noodle Oct 2019 #55
George II Oct 2019 #17
Hortensis Oct 2019 #53
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #22
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #16
George II Oct 2019 #18
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #21
ehrnst Oct 2019 #19
Hortensis Oct 2019 #20
Tarc Oct 2019 #25
PhoenixDem Oct 2019 #26
True Dough Oct 2019 #27
George II Oct 2019 #30
True Dough Oct 2019 #35
George II Oct 2019 #41
NurseJackie Oct 2019 #42
George II Oct 2019 #44
PhoenixDem Oct 2019 #49
Chemisse Oct 2019 #28
George II Oct 2019 #54
floppyboo Oct 2019 #29
George II Oct 2019 #31
floppyboo Oct 2019 #34
George II Oct 2019 #38
floppyboo Oct 2019 #39
melman Oct 2019 #43
Hortensis Oct 2019 #45
Dem4Life1102 Oct 2019 #46
madville Oct 2019 #48
Dem4Life1102 Oct 2019 #50
question everything Oct 2019 #47
beachbumbob Oct 2019 #51

Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:16 PM

1. I think this endorsement helps Warren. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:17 PM

2. It Will....

 

As a Warren Supporter, this makes me thinks less of them -- and stronger in our Warren support.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 05:45 AM

12. For sure. And Bernie is already struggling with health questions.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:19 PM

3. They're entitled to support who they want

 

But I don't know if this will help Bernie. I don't think it will hurt him, but i don't think it will have much impact.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:21 PM

4. Bernie was strong tonight!

 

The rest of the field was thrown off base tonight because they did not expect it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:26 PM

7. I seriously doubt that.. you can't support

 

BS without saying "the other candidates were thrown off base"?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:29 PM

8. What do I have to do with it?

 

I'm talking about the debate tonight. Did you watch?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:32 PM

10. I see no point in claiming the other candidates

 

were thrown off base to build up BS.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:22 PM

5. A a Warren supporter, Pressley's endorsement is the one I want

 

She's the adult in that room.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:25 PM

6. That's right.

 

I also think she's smart enough to hold off on that endorsement for a while. She's not like the other three, she's been in this game for a while and knows her way around Washington. She served as a aide for a long time, that's where the sausage gets made.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 04:16 PM

52. Agreed.

 

I am also reading that Pressley is being trashed on twitter for not endorsing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Oct 15, 2019, 11:30 PM

9. Plus he won the debate. Good night for Sanders

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 03:49 AM

11. I'm gonna go out on a limb and speculate that the other candidates must be jumping for joy...

 

tonight. I suspect the people who are impressed or influenced by those 3 already support BS.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:16 PM

32. Why?

 

I think if those three had decided to endorse Warren instead, the other candidates would have used that against her to prove she's just one of the purists who wants to promise ponies. Maybe Pete and Amy are high-fiving each other after leading that dog-pile last night, but it's going to stop real quick when they realize their pivot to the right was a bad strategy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kcr (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:22 PM

33. Let's see how long before Elizabeth has to "pivot" on M4A, and get back to me.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #33)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:31 PM

36. Yeah, just look at how she's already wavering!

 

I'm sure she'll pivot any day now.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to kcr (Reply #36)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:36 PM

37. I prefaced my statement with the operative word "wait". You didn't "wait" to "get back to me".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #37)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 01:15 PM

40. Google Calendar...

 

Tarheel_Dem...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 06:23 AM

13. I'm sorry to hear it. I cannot respect any political professional

 

who would endorse him. Politics is their work, and they don't have the excuse of ignorance many folk do. Notably, when Sanders first endorsed, not one of his colleagues would endorse him. Only after he got a following did a couple of congressmen find it useful to do so.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 06:25 AM

14. Make sure you guys are loud and clear

 

Let everyone know that you do not want their support in the general either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 06:40 AM

15. 76% of Sanders' good Democratic supporters voted Democrat

 

before, and the same kind of people will again.

The others, RandiFan, voted 12% for Trump, 2% refused to vote at all, and the rest voted third party, either deceived by lies into believing voting Democrat would be wrong and/or out of spite.

The same people are once again promising to refuse to vote for Democrat for anyone but Sanders. We all make our choices. Such a shame we don't all have to live them.

These children were waiting to be "processed" this summer. Every person who didn't vote to keep Republicans out of power is responsible for what's been happening to these little ones since. But in 2020 those people will have no excuse for pretending they didn't know.

Certainly Bernie Sanders claiming in appearances all over the nation that there's no significant difference between Democrats and Republicans is NOT that excuse, that "Democrats do it too." It's a bizarre and destructive misrepresentation that has helped empower great evil. And this is only a clue to what'll happen if we don't win in 2020. It really can happen here, and is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 10:43 AM

23. And 25% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain over Obama in 2008.

 

12%, by the way, is the highest estimate I've seen of Bernie supporters that went Trump. Having said that, this kind of defection is not just to be expected, but in the case of Sander's supporters, was quite low compared to historical precedent.

As I've said, approximately 25% of Clinton supporters voted McCain in 2008 rather than vote for Obama (see page 9 of this detailed study), as far as how many voted third party or not at all beyond that, I don't know, but one can assume that occurred on top of it. In fact, as you might note, that same study showed 9% of Obama primary voters went on to vote McCain, which isn't all that far off from the 12% you cited in regards to Bernie supporters who defected to Trump.

This is all to say that Bernie's primary supporters were at least as loyal as supporters of past Democrats, and quite possibly more loyal than Clinton's supporters in 2008. Let's also not forget that some were fervent enough to start a group, PUMA, which originally stood for "Party Unity My A**" or the fact that there were also large scale protests by Clinton supporters during the 2008 DNC.

All that is to say that I find this characterization of Sander's supporters as uniquely disloyal and overly spiteful to be woefully inaccurate and ironically divisive, especially when comparing them to past supporters of popular primary candidates that also lost, and the data that exists on them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mtmirror (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 10:58 AM

24. Much the same people in those groups. Take a GOOD look

 

at the demographics and their signature disgraceful fanatic behaviors. It's very striking.

Including the 25% who betrayed their claimed principles in 2008 versus the 24% of Sanders voters who betrayed the progressive goals they claimed in 2016.

These people weren't created by a snap of Sanders' fingers. From the days they caused trouble for Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etcetera, right up to today, that sort is always with us and always feels a need to oppose the big liberal power bloc, today the Democratic Party. They've never formed a party that didn't collapse and never won elections for themselves, but they are sometimes able to "win" by helping Republicans defeat the Democrats they always find more important to oppose.

But not in 2008 by voting for McCain. Democrats, including Hillary's true voters, elected Obama in spite of them. In 2016, though, they were enough in the right places to throw the election to the Republicans. Congrats to those wingnut bastards. They did "win" that one.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mtmirror (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:16 PM

55. Ah, but there was a distinct difference

 

Hillary threw her support to Obama the minute it was clear he would get the nomination. Not only that but she fully supported him at the convention. She never tried to get her supporters to try to overturn the nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 08:55 AM

17. That's not the way it works. In the General Election there will be one Democrat running against...

 

....a republican.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 04:42 PM

53. This. We all start with power, which can be turned against us

 

by others if we refuse to use it. The electoral power of everyone who doesn't vote helps elect whoever wins, and their party.

Reality is one of the candidates of the two main parties will become president and control federal and state government.

Refusing to vote for and against one IS a form of voting, with whichever party is elected benefiting from all who abandoned their duty.

Sometimes that works out for the good anyway. Sometimes not. Last time was a grave disaster we we may not have a chance to recover from. That's still to be seen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:09 AM

22. Aw.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 08:34 AM

16. It must be motivated by sympathy and pity... that's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

Or, perhaps this is a debt of gratitude being repaid. But it will not improve the chances of the BS campaign.

Fact is, after his heart attack and his fainting spell (or whatever caused him to "slip and fall" and hit his head in the hotel room) people now see BS as not being a healthy specimen of a man... and knowing that the stress and schedule of the presidency will age a man 20 years, well... just do the math.

Or, it could be that for obvious reasons (ie: the BS campaign is in deep trouble) they are trying to "reboot" him and breathe new "life" in to a "dying" campaign.

I cannot respect any political professional
who would endorse him
As a loyal Democrat, nor can I. Endorsing anyone who hates and attacks and smears the Democratic party as much as BS does... well, that tells me that they hate the party just as much... or that they simply don't care. I think they do this at their own political peril as well.

All I'm trying to say is that I have higher standards, and they aren't meeting them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 08:56 AM

18. I suppose that's why the rally on Saturday is being billed as "Bernie's Back".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:08 AM

21. That exactly what I want to see... as he rides off into the sunset.

 

I'm sure that Jane and her stepson Levi are also secretly looking forward the the end of the BS campaign and his retirement from politics. I'm sure they're tired of having their lives scrutinized.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:00 AM

19. Agree. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:05 AM

20. Ocasio waited, and I'm guessing it was to test her own winds.

 

Last edited Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:38 AM - Edit history (1)

That's not a criticism in itself. All elected politicians have to do it, and she needs to maintain her following.

That it might overlap more with his rather than Warren's should be a problem for her to identify and attack, though. As a leader, she has an absolute duty to restore the understanding and competence of citizens who've been deceived, not to embrace and reinforce their dysfunction.

She is talented, and I've been hoping her appreciation for and desire to protect what is good and even great in our 250-year-old systems were developing as she experienced them from inside. Such a shame.

Oh, well. It also means that at some point her district will vote her out. Only 5% of registered voters showed up at the polls the day before 100% got their Wednesday surprise.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 11:13 AM

25. I prefer Warren over Sanders, but still greatly admire AOC

 

She is entitled to endorse whichever candidate she likes, that is fine.

We're all just different pages of the same book, in the end.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 11:16 AM

26. Useless endorsement n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PhoenixDem (Reply #26)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 11:45 AM

27. Interesting you would say that

 

She has 5.5 million Twitter followers and appeals to the younger demographic.

When Joe Biden, during the first debate, said the NRA is not our enemy, I was appalled. Some Joe Biden supporters defended his remark by saying we shouldn't write off the 5 million NRA members.

And yet you scoff at AOC's following?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #27)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:13 PM

30. Twitter is a world-wide communications outlet.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #30)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:29 PM

35. Sure. You believe more than 20% of those followers are from outside the U.S.?

 

It's still a very significant number of people, particularly younger Americans, who line up behind AOC. She may not be a "king-maker" but her endorsement is far from meaningless.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 01:17 PM

41. Followers aren't necessarily an indication of popularity or true "following" of a person....

 

A better indication might be "likes" or ratio of "likes to followers".

For example, I have only 120 followers and have been on twitter for less than two years, yet I have 5,500 "likes", an average of almost 50 per follower, and I'm not a public figure.

On the other hand, she has 5.5M followers, has been on twitter for more than nine years, and has only 16,700 likes! So she's been on twitter five times longer than me and only 3 times more likes and I have a small fraction of her followers.

That makes one wonder about the composition of those 5.5 million people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #41)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 01:28 PM

42. Wait... here... LMFTFY

 

That makes one wonder about the composition of those 5.5 million "people."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #42)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 01:31 PM

44. Translated, I (a mere private citizen) have 45 likes per follower, she has .003 likes per follower..

 

Perhaps I should run for office (again)?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Reply #27)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 02:53 PM

49. People can buy twitter followers

 

Her tweets get at the most 30K likes .... she would get a lot more if she had "real" followers numbering 5.5 million
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 11:54 AM

28. +2? Do they not have minds of their own?

 

They really just happen to agree on every single thing?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #28)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 09:11 PM

54. It's actually +1, and why isn't it IO (Ilhan Omar) +1?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 11:59 AM

29. Huge! The largest voting demographic is young. More motivation to vote!

 

Polls are interesting, but they are a bit one dimensional. You need to excite people to go vote. AOC is brilliant with this. Bernie is clearly the leader across demographics for the under 35 voters.
This is the group that saw the largest % increase in voting in 2018.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to floppyboo (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:14 PM

31. The "young" demographic is historically the one with the lowest turnout.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #31)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:25 PM

34. Ya. That was my point exactly.

 

Historically true, but if 2018, with the enthusiasm is an indication - in part due to the examples of young Dems like AOC - we could and should expect an even greater increase in % turnout
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to floppyboo (Reply #34)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:54 PM

38. % increase is a deceiving metric... If a demographic already has a huge turnout....

 

....the % increase will obviously be low.

For example, the turnout % for 65+ was already very high in 2014 - almost 60%. That "only" increased by 6% to 66%. When you're already close to the top it's difficult to increase it by a large %.

Here are the actual % increases from 2014 to 2018:

18-29 19.9% to 35.6%
30-44 35.6% to 48.8%
45-64 49.6% to 59.5%
65+ 59.4% to 66.1%

Even with that very large increase among 18-29 year-olds that group remains the lowest turnout demographic, by 13.2% or more.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/04/behind-2018-united-states-midterm-election-turnout.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to George II (Reply #38)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 12:56 PM

39. Yes, which means they have the greatest potential for more growth in turn out.

 

And AOC will help. This is really good for Sanders.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 01:30 PM

43. Excellent

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 02:10 PM

45. Well, what I like best about her is that she's getting some

 

younger people to think about voting who might not have. That's a real contribution. Those tending to extremism were more likely to already be engaged in their dysfunctional way, so it's almost certainly a net gain for responsible citizenry no matter who she endorses.

As for this topic, she's a young pol drawing mostly young people (plus no doubt some of her district's residents who thought they should get acquainted with their "Wednesday morning surprise" ), so I would expect more responsiveness to her Twitter feed than those of older pols, rather than less. (I.e, likes for her posts do not equate numerically to likes for pols who appeal most to older demographics who use Twitter much less.)

Someone pointed out that the highest number of likes per tweet of 95K from 5 million followers would be very strangely low considering she does seem to have a genuine enthusiastic following scattered across the nation, maybe just a lot smaller than 5 million.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 02:30 PM

46. But I thought Tlaib and Omar

 

hated Jewish people?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 02:37 PM

48. They hate the state of Israel, not all Jewish people

 

Itís a pretty big difference.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to madville (Reply #48)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 04:10 PM

50. I know

 

Or maybe they hate the policies of the government of Israel.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 02:33 PM

47. One more good reason to oppose him

 

Do these newbies even realize that he is not a Democrat, never been a Democrat, has actively campaigned against Democratic candidates including wishing for someone to primary challenge Obama in 2012?

No, of course not. Like Trump, they came to Washington to shake things up without understanding on how things run.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 04:15 PM

51. I am sure that will put sanders over the top in Illinois

 

tongue in cheek
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