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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

RandySF

(58,511 posts)
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 09:25 AM Oct 2019

Did Bernie Sanders Have a Heart Attack?

A 78-year-old man with a medical history of gout and diverticulitis comes to the emergency department after developing chest discomfort while at a work function.

The patient’s overall clinical scenario is concerning enough that he is admitted to the hospital, where interventional cardiologists urgently perform a procedure called a cardiac catheterization. When the doctors inject dye into the major coronary arteries that supply blood to the heart, they find that one of them is so severely blocked that they must immediately place two stents in an effort to restore normal blood flow and hopefully prevent cardiac tissue around it from dying.

Based on the information his campaign has released, this scenario seems to be what happened to Bernie Sanders on Tuesday evening. Without a close look at Sanders’ medical chart, it’s impossible to make a definitive diagnosis, and I have not reviewed the details of his case other than what has been reported to the media by his campaign. But even the scant information we have—that he had stents inserted overnight following an acute cardiac episode—is enough to be able to say: This was very likely a heart attack.


I asked the Sanders’ campaign directly if they could confirm that this was or was not a heart attack. They declined to comment on the record. On Wednesday evening, the Wall Street Journal ran a story that originally stated a spokesperson for Sanders said the senator “didn’t suffer a heart attack,” but that story was later updated to remove that assertion. The story now states that the spokesperson said “more tests would be run to determine that diagnosis.”

A myocardial infarction, the medical term for a heart attack, is defined as an acute injury to the muscle of the heart, accompanied by clinical evidence of inadequate blood supply. This is usually confirmed with a blood test called a cardiac troponin that detects evidence of the damage (this testing takes hours, not days). The threshold that must be reached to raise a doctor’s suspicion of a heart attack is not high. New chest pain or pressure certainly suffices. Pain or new shortness of breath, whether with exertion or at rest, also suffices. But even less obvious symptoms such as sweating, jaw pain, or sudden arm tingling are enough to spur an immediate investigation.



https://slate.com/technology/2019/10/bernie-sanders-heart-attack-diagnosis-stents-chest-pain.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
82 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Did Bernie Sanders Have a Heart Attack? (Original Post) RandySF Oct 2019 OP
Seems to me like he did. TidalWave46 Oct 2019 #1
You were correct. NurseJackie Oct 2019 #73
The author of the article is named Jeremy Faust ritapria Oct 2019 #2
Wasn't his job to ooze empathy and compassion. He was offering a clinical opinion. Fla Dem Oct 2019 #5
He may be a Doctor - but he's still a human being ritapria Oct 2019 #30
Hence, you take issue with objectivity displacing emotive bias in reporting? LanternWaste Oct 2019 #6
He's a doctor, for crying out loud. cwydro Oct 2019 #17
He is an ER physician and a professor at Harvard Medical School nt BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #20
You want your facts sugar-coated? pnwmom Oct 2019 #65
It sounds as though unless he's dismissing any concerns, then he's being "bone-chilling." ehrnst Oct 2019 #69
Another Upstairs Hollywood Medical School graduate. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #3
See post #5. cwydro Oct 2019 #18
None of those degrees qualifies him to diagnose by way of a press release. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #27
I agree; I was merely responding to your allegation of his being a "Hollywood" doctor. cwydro Oct 2019 #34
This happened to my mother last year. Saviolo Oct 2019 #4
Happened to my dad more than 10 years ago spooky3 Oct 2019 #26
Sure looks like a heart attack to me... comradebillyboy Oct 2019 #7
Just to apply some balance and perspective, regardless of whether he did or not, hlthe2b Oct 2019 #8
You're right RandySF Oct 2019 #11
That may well be more an individual decision rather than any medical requirement once recovered. hlthe2b Oct 2019 #12
Should he have to? musicblind Oct 2019 #49
He had stents put in left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #9
Sometimes they do find that they have experienced a mild heart attack based on elevated troponins hlthe2b Oct 2019 #10
The first indication of a problem might have been when he fell in the shower last February pnwmom Oct 2019 #57
Yup... hlthe2b Oct 2019 #59
They are not placed willy-nilly BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #21
Seems we have a lot of medical experts on DU left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #24
And so ? We also have lawyers, scientists, etc.. drray23 Oct 2019 #79
. left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #80
True that stents don't always mean someone had a heart attack... but it is often the case. nt thesquanderer Oct 2019 #31
Just because your ex didn't have a heart attack doesn't mean EVERY person pnwmom Oct 2019 #51
I didn't say that left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #52
You said, based on no evidence, that "it's not a heart attack." pnwmom Oct 2019 #54
OMG left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #55
Turns out it WAS a heart attack. pnwmom Oct 2019 #81
i really don't care left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #82
I think it's pretty clear that he did. NurseJackie Oct 2019 #13
That will help Warren n/t left-of-center2012 Oct 2019 #14
I believe you're correct. NurseJackie Oct 2019 #15
though Morning Consult says that Sanders' supporters second-place preference is pretty evenly split thesquanderer Oct 2019 #32
I expect that you're right about that. cwydro Oct 2019 #19
Somebody's going to have to do a shitload of finessing... NurseJackie Oct 2019 #36
I agree. cwydro Oct 2019 #37
No, not necessarily and not even probably based on what we're told. Hortensis Oct 2019 #16
It was over for BS even before this happened BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #22
Depends on his goals, doesn't it? Remembering his role in Hortensis Oct 2019 #29
Yes -- the ultimate goal probably was to cry rigging BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #41
"When people show you who they are, believe them." Hortensis Oct 2019 #44
He most certainly did BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #23
You know that how....you examined the Senator? AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #43
I don't have to examine him BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #58
It speaks NOTHING....and it's unethical AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #60
This is not about ethics BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #61
So you'd be good if a righty Physcologist or Dr. said VP Biden appears to be..... AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #63
It depends upon the available evidence BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #64
The article explains that, since the Sanders team says this was a sudden event, pnwmom Oct 2019 #66
Turns out Blue was right. Cha Oct 2019 #75
What it speaks to is the observance of HIPPA laws ms liberty Oct 2019 #62
Yep PhoenixDem Oct 2019 #25
A 78 y/o man has emergency heart procedure from blocked artery, that's about as serious as it gets Baclava Oct 2019 #28
You're right... it's very serious. DEADLY serious! I don't know why... NurseJackie Oct 2019 #48
Yes DEADLY serious crazytown Oct 2019 #76
I just can't help but wish this misfortune had happened to a fast-food glutton who deserved it more. Croney Oct 2019 #33
I don't kow shit about stents ritapria Oct 2019 #35
You just reminded me of... Mike Nelson Oct 2019 #38
I'm not sure this is a worthy argument one way or the other peggysue2 Oct 2019 #39
My roommate had a heart attack at 51 yo. sdfernando Oct 2019 #40
A cat scan MFM008 Oct 2019 #42
No Dr. should be doing a diagnosis without exam..EVER AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #45
If the candidate and his campaign were more forthcoming... NurseJackie Oct 2019 #47
But he is fully qualified pnwmom Oct 2019 #53
Sounds like they're not very well coordinated with their "messaging"... NurseJackie Oct 2019 #56
My father had a heart attack a few years back and had a stent implanted. RhodeIslandOne Oct 2019 #46
This seems like a key point to me: pnwmom Oct 2019 #50
No Optical.Catalyst Oct 2019 #67
Yes he did RandySF Oct 2019 #72
Wishing someone ill? Optical.Catalyst Oct 2019 #77
Nope RandySF Oct 2019 #78
Yes. betsuni Oct 2019 #68
Yes Gothmog Oct 2019 #70
Yes he did... SidDithers Oct 2019 #71
This turned out to be prophetic, unfortunately. tishaLA Oct 2019 #74
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
1. Seems to me like he did.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 09:42 AM
Oct 2019

One pice people are looking over is that he has been “sick.” While more common in women, it’s a sign of an ongoing cardiac event(heart attack).

When someone feels “sick” for a couple of weeks and then goes to the hospital with chest pains and has two stents put in, it’s fair to assume it a heart attack. Pretty much guaranteed if it was a woman.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
2. The author of the article is named Jeremy Faust
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 09:47 AM
Oct 2019

Quite an appropriate last name …..The author is oozing with empathy and compassion , don't you think ? The issue he raises is legitimate and the Sanders Campaign should be fully transparent on whether he has suffered a heart attack …….The tone conveyed by the author is however rather bone-chillingly analytical ……

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fla Dem

(23,591 posts)
5. Wasn't his job to ooze empathy and compassion. He was offering a clinical opinion.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:10 AM
Oct 2019

Jeremy Samuel Faust, MD MS MA, is an emergency physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital and an instructor at Harvard Medical School.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
30. He may be a Doctor - but he's still a human being
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:06 PM
Oct 2019

And he hasn't examined Bernie so he does not know of where he speaks …….He sounds cold- blooded and I don't like that

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
6. Hence, you take issue with objectivity displacing emotive bias in reporting?
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:13 AM
Oct 2019

"The tone conveyed by the author is however rather bone-chillingly analytical..."

Hence, you take issue with objectivity displacing emotive bias in reporting? I imagine there are plenty of puff-pieces out there to placate any desire for preferential reporting; but I don't think it's the job of an objective analysis to replace get-well-soon cards.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
17. He's a doctor, for crying out loud.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:30 AM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
20. He is an ER physician and a professor at Harvard Medical School nt
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:39 AM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
65. You want your facts sugar-coated?
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 02:56 AM
Oct 2019

The medical truth, according to this ER physician and instructor at Harvard Medical school, is that his sudden symptoms mean he either had a heart attack, or unstable angina -- which can have outcomes as serious as a heart attack.

It's not this physician's job to sugarcoat the facts for the public.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
69. It sounds as though unless he's dismissing any concerns, then he's being "bone-chilling."
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 07:22 AM
Oct 2019

False dilemma.

He's displaying the calm demeanor of medical professional who and that means being neither of those things.

Your characterization of a physician speaking about Bernie's condition in clinical terms may not be accurate, because he's talking about Bernie, whom you have a lot of emotional responses to.

Many Trump supporters react the same way when medical professionals calmly point out symptoms of mental illness issues in him.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
3. Another Upstairs Hollywood Medical School graduate.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:04 AM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
27. None of those degrees qualifies him to diagnose by way of a press release.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:55 AM
Oct 2019

He did not see the patient. He did not treat the patient. He does not have access to the patient's history, their charts, or their test results. He offers no insight or expertise beyond his anecdotal experience as an emergency physician (note, not a cardiologist).

Of course he offers a perfunctory disclaimer, and I'm sure people will claim he's "just asking important questions". The problem is saying "I can't say anything for certain" kind of loses its effect when you're seemingly certain enough of it to write a fucking article for Slate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
34. I agree; I was merely responding to your allegation of his being a "Hollywood" doctor.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:15 PM
Oct 2019

Which was incorrect.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Saviolo

(3,280 posts)
4. This happened to my mother last year.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:08 AM
Oct 2019

She was 83 at the time. She also had stents put in. The doctors came short of calling it a heart attack, they called it a "coronary event." It wasn't quite a serious as a heart attack, though it was still a serious situation, of course. She's on a few new drugs now, but she's still healthy and has gone back to her active lifestyle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

spooky3

(34,407 posts)
26. Happened to my dad more than 10 years ago
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:54 AM
Oct 2019

And he is still doing great in his late 80s.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,128 posts)
7. Sure looks like a heart attack to me...
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:14 AM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hlthe2b

(102,138 posts)
8. Just to apply some balance and perspective, regardless of whether he did or not,
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:19 AM
Oct 2019

it is not in any way NECESSARILY career (Presidency)-ending. I say that as one who is not supporting Bernie , but who wishes him well and think he deserves a fair appraisal.

Perhaps the best way to help put things in perspective is to remind you of what SHOULD have been career-ending in its significance and severity , but clearly was not:

Vice President Dick Cheney's history of heart problems started in 1978, when he suffered his first of four heart attacks at the age of 37.

Attention turned to Cheney's health after he was taken to George Washington University Hospital for tests on Saturday after an episode of shortness of breath.

The following is a summary of Cheney's heart problems:

1978: Dick Cheney suffers his first heart attack. The incident does not sideline Cheney, as the former White House chief of staff wins the first of five terms to Congress that same year.

1984: Cheney has another heart attack while serving as Wyoming's lone U.S. representative. Doctors consider the heart attack minor, like the 1978 incident, and Cheney soon heads back to work, eventually representing the Republicans as minority whip in the House.

1988: An attack in August -- Cheney's third before his 48th birthday -- leads to quadruple bypass surgery. But the congressman's condition stabilizes throughout the 1990s, with no official reports of health problems. He has his last comprehensive heart checkup in 1996, without having another for four years.

November 22, 2000: With the presidential election hanging on a few hundred votes in Florida, Cheney checks into George Washington University Hospital with chest pains. Doctors insert a coronary stent to prop open a narrowed artery after what Cheney calls "a very slight heart attack." Doctors say Cheney should be able to resume all his normal activities.

March 5, 2001: Cheney checks himself into George Washington University Hospital with chest pain and discomfort. The vice president undergoes an urgent procedure to re-open the blocked heart artery treated in November, returning home after an overnight stay. With advisers saying his heart has not been damaged, Cheney soon resumes his busy schedule.

June 29, 2001: Cheney says he will undergo tests to determine whether he needs a "pacemaker plus," a device to normalize an irregular heartbeat. Cheney calls the procedure "an insurance policy" given his history of heart problems.

June 30, 2001: Doctors say Cheney's prognosis is "terrific" after he has surgery to implant a device to monitor his heart rhythm and slow it down if necessary. Cheney leaves the hospital that afternoon.

February 8, 2002: Cheney completes a "routine" physical to allow doctors to check the status of his heart pacemaker device. No complications were reported.

May 11, 2004: Doctors give Cheney a clean bill of health after his annual heart checkup. They find that his pacemaker had detected no irregular heartbeat, a spokesman said. During the visit, the vice president underwent an EKG, and echocardiogram, a stress test, a regular physical and a check of his pacemaker.


https://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/13/cheney.timeline/

and of course, Cheney had a 2012 heart transplant at age 71

https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/24/politics/cheney-transplant-surgery/index.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RandySF

(58,511 posts)
11. You're right
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:30 AM
Oct 2019

But will he continue the same crazy travel schedule?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hlthe2b

(102,138 posts)
12. That may well be more an individual decision rather than any medical requirement once recovered.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:32 AM
Oct 2019

I hope he does what feels right to him. Life is short and one can not let public expectations decide for you what you do IMO.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

musicblind

(4,484 posts)
49. Should he have to?
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 05:30 PM
Oct 2019

I feel like sometimes we ask too much of our politicians.

Too little in some areas (policy and action) and too much in others (campaign and travel).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
9. He had stents put in
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:22 AM
Oct 2019

My ex had stents put in.
It's not a heart attack.

"Stents are placed to reduce the risk of heart attack.
They are common devices, placed in about 1 million Americans a year, says John McPherson, a cardiogist at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville."

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+Americans+a+year+have+stents+put+in+their+heart&gs_ivs=1#tts=0

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hlthe2b

(102,138 posts)
10. Sometimes they do find that they have experienced a mild heart attack based on elevated troponins
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:28 AM
Oct 2019

on blood testing. That's why I think the campaign backed off from stating absolutely no heart attack because (likely) they were told by his health care team that it is too early to say absolutely, pending these tests (and perhaps others).

But, yes, you are right that enough coronary artery occlusion requiring stints can occur without triggering a myocardial infarction (heart attack) if caught early enough. By clearing the blockage, the risk of future heart attack is most often dramatically reduced.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
57. The first indication of a problem might have been when he fell in the shower last February
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 06:09 PM
Oct 2019

and required stitches. Too bad he got them in a walk-in clinic. He should have had a full physical then, to make sure there wasn't a serious reason for his fall. At his age there often is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
21. They are not placed willy-nilly
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:43 AM
Oct 2019

They are placed only when there is angiographic evidence of a severe blockage. Usually the patients do have a small MI by the time the stent is placed and they are placed to reduce further tissue necrosis.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
24. Seems we have a lot of medical experts on DU
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:49 AM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

drray23

(7,619 posts)
79. And so ? We also have lawyers, scientists, etc..
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 08:07 PM
Oct 2019

Why do you find that so surprising ?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,972 posts)
31. True that stents don't always mean someone had a heart attack... but it is often the case. nt
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:07 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
51. Just because your ex didn't have a heart attack doesn't mean EVERY person
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 05:54 PM
Oct 2019

with stents didn't have a heart attack. Many, many of them have. And Bernie's diagnosis is not clear. From the article:

On Wednesday evening, the Wall Street Journal ran a story that originally stated a spokesperson for Sanders said the senator “didn’t suffer a heart attack,” but that story was later updated to remove that assertion. The story now states that the spokesperson said “more tests would be run to determine that diagnosis.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
54. You said, based on no evidence, that "it's not a heart attack."
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 05:57 PM
Oct 2019

Many people get stents AFTER they've had a heart attack. Luckier people get them to prevent a heart attack.

In Bernie's case, no one can say whether he had one or not, because his campaign isn't saying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
81. Turns out it WAS a heart attack.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 09:46 PM
Oct 2019

Notwithstanding your ex.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
13. I think it's pretty clear that he did.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:35 AM
Oct 2019

I expect that he'll soon announce that he's quitting his campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,972 posts)
32. though Morning Consult says that Sanders' supporters second-place preference is pretty evenly split
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:09 PM
Oct 2019

between Warren and Biden (30% Biden, 28% Warreen).

https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
19. I expect that you're right about that.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:33 AM
Oct 2019

I imagine they’re talking over all the details even now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
36. Somebody's going to have to do a shitload of finessing...
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:19 PM
Oct 2019

Somebody's going to have to do a shitload of finessing... and wordsmithing... and massaging the details... if they want this to come of as being something that's no-big-deal.

I can tell you one thing... this was NO "routine outpatient procedure" as some have suggested. This is serious and deadly stuff.

Nobody goes to a corner doc-in-the-box clinic to get stents inserted. There's a REASON he went to a HOSPITAL and there are reasons he stayed overnight.

Has he even been released yet?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
37. I agree.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:21 PM
Oct 2019

Good question as to whether he’s been released. I haven’t heard.

Usually we’d get some version of “he’s resting at home.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. No, not necessarily and not even probably based on what we're told.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:18 AM
Oct 2019

Myocardial ischemia will cause chest pain, but the term "heart attack" is most typically used to describe an event that causes permanent damage to cardiac tissue. It can be anywhere from small to devastating.

Ischemia results from reduced oxygenation of heart muscle from reduced blood flow but doesn't have to mean permanent damage. The stenting presumably fixed the circulation problem.

So, no at this point. How long it takes him to return to fairly normal activities should be a clue. Even minor heart attacks take time to recover from. In contrast, if it weren't for the inherent danger, many stentings could be done outpatient instead of done in-hospital with overnight stay for monitoring.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
22. It was over for BS even before this happened
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:45 AM
Oct 2019

This was the final straw (I backspaced the other common euphemism when I realized it would be insensitive)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
29. Depends on his goals, doesn't it? Remembering his role in
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:56 AM
Oct 2019

the dreadful 2016 disaster, his tepid attempts to expand his following this time, and his decades of rejection of the Democratic Party, including the toxic comparisons he's been making of Democrats to Republicans all through this campaign, I suspect he's been pursuing more achievable goals than the distant gold ring of the nomination itself.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
41. Yes -- the ultimate goal probably was to cry rigging
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 01:01 PM
Oct 2019

and support third party to help Trump win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
44. "When people show you who they are, believe them."
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 04:27 PM
Oct 2019

Sometimes we ourselves don't really know or won't admit, and it's our actions that tell truths we wouldn't if we could.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
23. He most certainly did
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:47 AM
Oct 2019

The fact that the campaign has not released the troponin levels speaks volumes. If his troponin had been normal, they would have broadcast it saying "look, it was not a heart attack!"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
43. You know that how....you examined the Senator?
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 04:15 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
58. I don't have to examine him
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 06:40 PM
Oct 2019

The secretiveness around this common issue speaks volumes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
60. It speaks NOTHING....and it's unethical
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 07:43 PM
Oct 2019

No ethical Doc dose a diagnosis without an exam.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
61. This is not about ethics
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 08:30 PM
Oct 2019

BS is a public figure, running for POTUS. Different rules apply.

BS team has been secretive about his condition because they don't want people to know how bad it is. Release the EGG. Release the CK and Troponin levels. Release the angiogram results. Let the cardiologist do a presser and inform the public.

Why not? Because BS is likely to be a ticking time bomb and they don't want voters to know about it. Worse, they want voters to think everything is A-okay which is disingenuous.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
63. So you'd be good if a righty Physcologist or Dr. said VP Biden appears to be.....
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 08:58 PM
Oct 2019

...suffering from Dementia without an exam? That's cool?
Let's say 1 declared Sen. Warren suffered paranoia delusions with no exam? That's cool?
Public figures right?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
64. It depends upon the available evidence
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 10:25 PM
Oct 2019

What you are stating does not fit available evidence.

Nothing takes away the responsibility of the Sanders campaign from giving a full disclosure. People have a right to know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
66. The article explains that, since the Sanders team says this was a sudden event,
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 02:59 AM
Oct 2019

there are only 2 options: either a heart attack or unstable angina -- which can be just as serious as a heart attack and which sometimes prevents a doctor from using stents for fear of provoking a heart attack.

So either way, the "event" seems to be more serious than Bernie's team is letting on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(296,872 posts)
75. Turns out Blue was right.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 07:38 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ms liberty

(8,558 posts)
62. What it speaks to is the observance of HIPPA laws
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 08:43 PM
Oct 2019

His campaign has no authority to release any of his medical information, and neither do his doctors. Bernie and/or his wife if she is authorized on his insurance, would be the only persons who could make that decision.
If they had trumpeted his troponin levels as you seem to have wanted, most of America would have had to google troponin to find out what it was, and then they would have shrugged and moved on, with little understanding of what it actually meant. Most people don't care about that level of detail, and they don't need to know anyway.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
28. A 78 y/o man has emergency heart procedure from blocked artery, that's about as serious as it gets
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 11:56 AM
Oct 2019

I can't imagine a brutal, stressful coast to coast primary campaign trail would be the prudent path forward.

If it was me I'd be looking at those vacation cabins I own as a far better alternative to life on the road.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
48. You're right... it's very serious. DEADLY serious! I don't know why...
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 05:14 PM
Oct 2019
A 78 y/o man has emergency heart procedure from blocked artery, that's about as serious as it gets
You're right... it's very serious. DEADLY serious! I don't know why we have folks around here who are trying to convince us that it's a simple "outpatient procedure".

Based on current estimates, he'll be out of the HOSPITAL and headed back home to Vermont by Sunday. That'll be SIX DAYS in the HOSPITAL. Then he's going to continue resting at home? Well that's EXCELLENT ADVICE, and I hope he takes it.

I think people need to look at the big picture to get a better appreciation for what's going on.

It may be "routine" and "common" ... but it's also invasive and dangerous, and it's not something that's taken lightly. Bernie has heart disease (obviously) and this procedure was undertaken to save his life. It's not a pre-emptive treatment like a shingles shot or a flu shot. It's invasive and serious.

I can't imagine a brutal, stressful coast to coast primary campaign trail would be the prudent path forward.
Neither can I. This is the end of his campaign. If he continues, it will kill him. I think most people would prefer that he return to the senate rather than a cemetery.

If it was me I'd be looking at those vacation cabins I own as a far better alternative to life on the road.
You and I think a lot alike. That sounds like a good idea. He's already got three houses to choose from, I don't know that he actually NEEDS a vacation cabin... but I'll bet he could find some cute and cozy options on Airbnb.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
76. Yes DEADLY serious
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 07:49 PM
Oct 2019

you know, like necrosis. I went back reading through threads after the official announcement, found that you were right on point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Croney

(4,657 posts)
33. I just can't help but wish this misfortune had happened to a fast-food glutton who deserved it more.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:14 PM
Oct 2019

Karma, step up!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
35. I don't kow shit about stents
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:18 PM
Oct 2019

Some people say it's a routine procedure ….Others clam Bernie's had a heart attack and should drop out …… The campaign should get the truth out as soon as possible ...He's been released from the hospital and I wish him well ...Health before Presidential campaigns is the way to go....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Mike Nelson

(9,944 posts)
38. You just reminded me of...
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:22 PM
Oct 2019

... the Dick Cheney heart attack, which wasn't before it was... I prefer to think Bernie is more honest than Cheney.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,823 posts)
39. I'm not sure this is a worthy argument one way or the other
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:27 PM
Oct 2019

Certainly at the very least Bernie Sanders had a 'coronary event' that required a double stent procedure to alleviate an arterial blockage. The good news is he got to the hospital in time. The bad news is this will take a toll on his campaign. All depends on whether he can resume campaigning although his campaign had pretty much run out of gas anyway.

Will he retreat, drop out? I really doubt it unless the campaign staff is playing loosey-goosey with the medical facts. I fully expect the man to come back--maybe on a reduced-event schedule--and keep pumping the airways with his promises of free-everything for the American public. It's the nature of the man, someone we've watched and heard over many years. His persistent/stubborn personality will push things to the max.

IMHO unless the medical advice is grim and grimmer, I think we'll see Sanders back on the trail, doing what he does.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sdfernando

(4,927 posts)
40. My roommate had a heart attack at 51 yo.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:55 PM
Oct 2019

He was lucky and had a non-stemi. There was no damage to the heart muscle. It was stented and he is fine. Over the ensuing years he has had 3 more stents placed, but these were cautionary as there was no new heart attack, but there were plaques the could cause issues so he opted to have the stents placed....that was 6 years ago and he is doing fine, working out and riding his bike, and singing (really loudly).

So long as they get the plaques taken care of Bernie should be fine. Follow his Drs. orders and take the meds he is supposed to to prevent new lesions in the arteries.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MFM008

(19,803 posts)
42. A cat scan
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 01:04 PM
Oct 2019

May have showed closing arteries that was causing chest discomfort without an actual heart attack.
When my dad had his heart attack in 1982 all his pain was in his back. He thought he had pulled a muscle or had the flu.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
45. No Dr. should be doing a diagnosis without exam..EVER
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 04:29 PM
Oct 2019

This Dr. hasn't examined the Senator......I don't see where he's seen Sanders test results he admits so.....it's unethical to do this.

I'm not a fan of the Senator....too many promises that can't be payed for....what this "Dr." opines....and admits...."Without a close look at Sanders’ medical chart, it’s impossible to make a definitive diagnosis, and I have not reviewed the details of his case other than what has been reported to the media by his campaign.."
makes any diagnosis a hit piece.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
47. If the candidate and his campaign were more forthcoming...
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 04:52 PM
Oct 2019
makes any diagnosis a hit piece.
No it's not. People have a right to know the truth about ANYONE who aspires to be our party's nominee. If the candidate and his campaign were more forthcoming... then this type of educated and experienced speculation wouldn't be necessary.

It's obvious that this type of "diagnosis" is going to happen in the absence of "official" information that's thorough, honest and complete. I guess someone in the BS campaign decided that it was "better" to be secretive and cagey and let the rumors and speculation grow.

If that's the case, then I can only presume that the REAL news has a good chance of being WORSE than all the speculation that we're hearing now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
53. But he is fully qualified
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 05:55 PM
Oct 2019

to quote from the WSJ:

On Wednesday evening, the Wall Street Journal ran a story that originally stated a spokesperson for Sanders said the senator “didn’t suffer a heart attack,” but that story was later updated to remove that assertion. The story now states that the spokesperson said “more tests would be run to determine that diagnosis.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
56. Sounds like they're not very well coordinated with their "messaging"...
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 06:02 PM
Oct 2019

... which leads me to believe that someone on the campaign is trying to hide something. Or someone is just trying to finesse the shit out of bad news and try to turn it into something positive.

In any case, one thing is certain... this is almost certainly the end of the BS campaign. in the end, BS may live to be a hundred... but voters may not have confidence in him because of this.

Either he's going to voluntarily withdraw for the sake of his own health, OR... the voters will feel so uncomfortable supporting a candidate that they (the voters) fear may not make it to inauguration day... and they'll just politely move on to someone else in whom they have more confidence in their ability to be a vigorous campaigner and strong and forceful POTUS.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
46. My father had a heart attack a few years back and had a stent implanted.
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 04:46 PM
Oct 2019

He was 82 or so.

His heart attack was mild (he thought he was coming down with pneumonia) but it lasted long enough before he went to the ER that it caused some damage. The blockage formed from diabetes causing particles of cholesterol to loosen and form the dam blocking flow to his heart. They put the stent in and an hour later he was resting comfortably. He seems ok now.

Another guy I knew casually told me he had double bypass surgery over the summer. I thought they rushed you in for that but he was like no, they scheduled it and a few days later did the operation. I always assumed that was an emergency.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
50. This seems like a key point to me:
Thu Oct 3, 2019, 05:53 PM
Oct 2019

Last edited Fri Oct 4, 2019, 03:02 AM - Edit history (1)

On Wednesday evening, the Wall Street Journal ran a story that originally stated a spokesperson for Sanders said the senator “didn’t suffer a heart attack,” but that story was later updated to remove that assertion. The story now states that the spokesperson said “more tests would be run to determine that diagnosis.”


And the other concerning part of the story:

Some commentators have been hedging about whether Sanders had a heart attack or not. Here’s why that hedging is likely unnecessary: Other than a heart attack, there are two scenarios that would require coronary stent placement: unstable angina and stable angina. Stable angina is defined as chest pain (or similar symptoms) that do not change over time, and the information the campaign gave about him experiencing chest pain suddenly, during an event, suggests this is not what Sanders experienced.

That leaves unstable angina as the only alternative to a heart attack. Unstable angina is an increasingly controversial topic among experts. In essence, unstable angina is progressive coronary artery narrowing that causes worsening symptoms, but is not necessarily accompanied by new EKG findings or abnormal blood tests. It’s basically an impending heart attack, a ticking time bomb, in which the cardiac muscle has not yet died—but could crumple at any minute. Patients can have unstable angina for minutes, days, weeks, or even longer. While patients with unstable angina who receive stents often feel better afterward and heart attacks are prevented in a small number of them, the risks of the procedure are considered so dangerous—including bleeding, and even the possibility of inducing a heart attack—that only patients with severe risks and/or severe symptoms should undergo cardiac catheterization.

It’s also true that some patients bounce back quickly and essentially return to normal.So, again, taken together, the facts we know are that Sanders required two stents and that this occurred in an acute clinical scenario. This means that either it was a heart attack or that it was unstable angina. Unstable angina carries just as poor a prognosis as many, though not all, heart attacks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,380 posts)
68. Yes.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 05:55 AM
Oct 2019

We rushed my mother to her doctor because she had the same symptoms as Bernie. They kept her waiting because they didn't believe her. Finally hooked her up to a machine and the nurse came out to say, OMG, it's a heart attack. No surgery. A mild one.

Emergency fixing things of the heart: heart attack. Lots of people have them. Bernie should think of his health first. His supporters should think of his health first, too. No reason why he has to run for president. The next president will be cleaning up the mess the Republicans made, just like President Obama had to do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
71. Yes he did...
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 06:38 PM
Oct 2019
Senator Bernie Sanders had a heart attack this week, his campaign said on Friday, as he was released from a Las Vegas hospital.

“After two and a half days in the hospital, I feel great, and after taking a short time off, I look forward to getting back to work,” Mr. Sanders said in a statement.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hospital.html

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
74. This turned out to be prophetic, unfortunately.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 06:56 PM
Oct 2019

Best wishes to the junior senator from VT

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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