Good God @MSNBC - can you please spare me Michael Moore bashing Biden & claiming he won't "excite"..

[Cha]

Link to tweet

Mahalo, HawaiiDelilah!

[TheRealNorth]

1. I saw nothing wrong with what Michael Moore said

What he said was a fair criticism (in fact, he said pretty much what I was thinking).

If you are clutching your pearls now, you are not going to make it through 2020 because its going to be a tavern brawl against Trump.

[Cha]

2. Do not talk to me about "clutching pearls"..

I don't care if you saw nothing wrong with MM.. he can FO.. plenty of people do see what's wrong.

Hawaiian Delilah is dead on!

[dem4decades]

7. I heard Moore and i think he was right on one point. If Biden wants to excite he had to be Fightin

He can't let Trump drive the narrative on this Ukraine bullshit. He has to grab the bull by the horns and toss it right back into Trump's face.

Fightin Joe! Now that's exciting.

Fight every day
Fight every way

[Cha]

13. Guess what?! Biden is Doing that.. he

doesn't need MM's advice.

[blue-wave]

9. Mahalo Cha!

I don't need Michael Moore to tell me who to vote for. Just posted a Joe video to #1 response. Joe knows how to get to and cross the finish line. That's why the reThugs attack him so mercilessly.

[Cha]

16. Mahalo to you, Blue-Wave! HawaiiDelilah

has it exactly right! And, this is coming from a Warren Supporter.

Thank you for the Vid.. I'll watch it!

[emmaverybo]

29. Yay, Cha. He can damn well FO! FO Michael Moore.

[Cha]

32. HD has it exactly right.. " I am the base. I am for Warren. If Biden is the nominee, I WILL BE

excited for him"! She's a patriot!

Mahalo, emmaverybo!

I am very excited about Joe Biden winning but if he doesn't I will be excited about whomever.. and so will our Democratic BASE.. which happens to be POC with whom Biden is leading!

[blue-wave]

6. Well um, it appears to me that what you refer to

as "a tavern brawl" is one of Joe's specialties. Just check out this video:

"but by the power of our example." Joe's the one!!!

[TheRealNorth]

17. I was trying to find the clip I head on Ari Melber's show

Basically, Biden said in the clip when responding to Ukrainegate was that he said the media has proven it is false, instead of HIM saying it's bullshit. There is a subtle difference between, "The media says its false" vs. "I say its false/bullshit". The latter is a stronger statement because he is saying it and he's backing it up with his credibility. The former is kind of wobbly in the sense that it leaves Biden an out and he is not backing it with his credibility.

And it's not like others don't have these concerns:

https://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/watch/biden-campaign-to-media-don-t-book-giuliani-70264389551

I also think it was a mistake to put on his twitter that the media should not book Ghouliani (because the Ghoul is a proven lying sack of shit). Instead, when Biden did it via Twitter it kind of sends a message that he is afraid of Ghouliani and what he has to say.

[emmaverybo]

30. Aw stop it. He is the candidate who first took the fight to Trump and framed the battle for all of

us. Nothing less than “a fight for the soul of our country.”

[Buzz cook]

49. Has he called for impeachment yet?

He's finally called for an investigation investigation. But only if the administration doesn't cooperate with the Ukraine affair. Which seems a bit odd because the investigation into the Ukraine phone call is already an impeachment investigation.

Warren was the first candidate to call for impeachment. Several others soon followed her. They "took" it to Trump in a meaningful way while Biden was...what? Calling Trump names?

Well he hadn't entered the race before all the candidates before him had excoriated Trump in no uncertain terms.

Face it Biden is playing a "safe" game. He's just trying to not lose his lead instead of actually leading.

[Cha]

105. Nobody "facing" anything that you tell them

to about Joe Biden.

You have no idea what he's doing. All you do is insult.

[Buzz cook]

121. Thanks

For your input. You're always an engaging conversationalist.

[emmaverybo]

119. And Warren could not mention his name when confronting Trump on his corruption in regards to Ukraine

[Buzz cook]

120. link please

I think you'll have to prove that. And you should clearly explain what you're inferring. Do you mean Warren is "afraid" of Trump and didn't mention his name? What is the point you're trying to make?

[emmaverybo]

122. Did not defend Biden by name. Many have pointed this out. Other candidates felt Trump's attack

on one was an attack on all. And so they paused the competition a moment to specify that Trump’s corrupt act was an attempt to attack Biden. It certainly was meddling in the election. Harris, for instance, strongly called out Trump while defending Biden. Not so Sanders or Warren.

[Buzz cook]

125. Warren renewed her call for impeachment

Biden didn't. Which is the stronger defense of Biden?

[emmaverybo]

128. Ducking defending Biden, but of course strongly condemning Trump as this makes her look tough.

And I agree she is right to call for impeachment.

I can only speculate that the reason Warren and Sanders can not say the B name is that they do not want to give any credence to Trump’s perception of Biden as the candidate to beat, feel that in defending Biden they would contribute to his garnering sympathy, or simply can not transcend their own political ambitions for one minute, and gauge any move in terms of political risk vs. benefit to themselves.

[Buzz cook]

146. You have a more

cynical take on Warren and Sanders than I have on Biden. I find that surprising, because I am very cynical about Biden indeed.

[emmaverybo]

148. Well, they are all politicians. However, Biden would defend them by name. He defended Harris

immediately the day after her take-down of him at the first debate. How can I not see that Warren
and Sanders have both failed to do what many other candidates have?

[Cha]

149. That's exactly what I was going to post to you, emma..

the part about.. I do know Joe Biden would be defending them by name against the treasonous lunatic who is trying to erase our Democracy!

I give Kamala Harris much respect for her doing this.. it's the right thing to do.. and yes Joe Biden was Defending her against the racist trump right after The Debate! Excellent reminder

[pangaia]

103. I believe others, Warren and Harris and Beto, for example, were way ahead of him.

[Wawannabe]

34. The tav I frequent would have my back

Last edited Thu Oct 3, 2019, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I got Biden’s back!

[democratisphere]

42. Tavern Brawlers are always losers!

Wake up Democratic People!

[Demsrule86]

81. Well I do and I won't watch the host that had him on either anymore...Michael helped Hillary lose

in 16, he can go away. He also helped Kerry lose by having a shadow campaign...so I have no use for him.

Indeed, Moore has become a repository for the hopes and dreams of liberals who are livid at President Bush but uninspired by mainstream Democrats like John Kerry. Until early this year, these liberals had Howard Dean to get behind...Or, as Moore himself recently told Entertainment Weekly, "[W]e can't leave this up to the Democrats. It's too serious now. I mean, this is a party that can't even win when they win. They lose when they win, you can't get more pathetic than that. We have to save them from themselves." The question confronting Democrats is: If Moore is their savior, who will save them from Moore?

If this shit continues we are going to lose a really winnable election in 20, any chance for the Senate and our house majority is endangered as well... the usual suspects are at it again. How many elections can they lose for us do you suppose?

https://newrepublic.com/article/67674/crashing-the-party

[Happy Hoosier]

93. He was all in for Bernie, of course.

I mean, he doesn't want to talk about Bernie consistently coming in third, but he was sure to point out that Bernie is doing well in Nevada.... and MONEY! He has MONEY!

I mean, that's okay to an extent. Bernie is his guy, though I thought his quick dismissal of Warren was weak.

And yes, I would be HAPPY to vote for Joe Biden. I doubt he will be my first choice (leaning Warren), but I think Joe WOULD take this country in a positive direction.

[Cha]

107. That's nice that BS has so much MONEY!!!

wow.. so impressive. lol

Thanks for that, HH

[sheshe2]

3. I don't need to be excited about a candidate.

I need a candidate that will do their job. I want my civil rights protected under the constitution that they have to swear to uphold.

I vote and I vote blue.

Link to tweet

Thanks, Cha.

[Cha]

8. Mahalo for bringing Conor McElroy's tweet on

board, she! Very Important statement!

No matter who wins the Dem nom I Will Be Excited for him or her to WIN with the Country voting to FIRE his Psycho Vile Ass out of our WH.

[sheshe2]

10. I am with ya.

Vote Democratic!

[mcar]

90. I'm with you, she!

But then, we're grownups. We want a candidate who can beat dotard and do the job of repairing the damage he and his minions have caused.

This whole "excitement" nonsense is just that - and provides cover for those who go on to vote 3rd party.

[progressoid]

118. Good luck trying to win an election with a candidate that doesn't excite.

You may not need to be excited about a candidate but most of the voting population does. More people vote on emotion and gut feelings than qualifications.

[Demsrule86]

133. I dont need excitement. I need to win.

[progressoid]

140. Like I said, *you* may not need excitement, but the general voting population does.

They outnumber you.

[radical noodle]

4. I totally agree with her

This is how they started against Hillary. She wasn't exciting enough. If Biden is our nominee I will be plenty excited enough to get my ass out to vote for him.

[blm]

5. HawaiiDelilah speaks for me

I’m sick of the pundits who think they are the only ones capable of determining who can win.

The ONLYS....can GFT....gently....with a chainsaw.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. I do not care what Michael Moore says,

but I can tell you this. If Biden is the nominee I will not be excited for him.

But I will vote for him.

[Cha]

15. Well, I can tell you this.. Plenty of

us Will BE EXCITED if Biden should be our candidate.. or whomever is our Nominee!

[Green Line]

19. Yes we will be

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

36. That is just fine.

I expect that many of you would be less than excited if certain other candidates become the nominee. I'm not here to worry about that. I'm officially Undecided for a reason.

Those who identify as Democrats are going to vote for the nominee, with few exceptions, regardless of how much they'd have preferred a different nominee. The point is that we are all Democrats.

[pangaia]

104. " I expect that many of you would be less than excited if certain other candidates become the nomine

...e." (That last "e' didn't fit. )


nevertheless, well put.


It's interesting the 'attachments' that develop here as in life, isn't it.

[Gothmog]

12. I turned Ari off when Moore came on

[SleeplessinSoCal]

37. we may not like him (I have reservations), but he was right.

I just wish he wouldn't knock anybody, including Sanford, running against Trump. He should be laser focused on voting irregularities and rigging by this mob.

[Demsrule86]

78. No he is not right...and EW has yet to show how she wins the rust belt in a general.

I am sick of the pundits championing Warren by taking pot shots at Biden...all they will do is weaken the eventual candidate whom I believe will be Biden. I would support Warren in a general but not a primary. Biden, despite all the faux rhetoric, is ahead in this primary right now today...and I see no evidence Warren will win this thing...and I have never liked Moore particularly...he hurt Hillary in 16 so as far as I am concerned he can fuck off. I will never get over 2016. He is a part of that.

[Gothmog]

87. Moore voted for Nader

I have no respect for Moore and really do want to see him. I turned off Morning Joe when Moore showed up

[Demsrule86]

97. Moore is a scumbag...I wonder if he voted for Stein?

[Kahuna7]

130. He wasn't right. Hillary voters will not be excited to vote for Bernie.. And!

black people won't be excited to vote for Warren or Bernie. Mike only sees things from the perception of progressive whites. That's not the Democratic base. Sorry. It just isn't.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

131. He is a Bernie guy. But the DNC ignored him in 2016.

The DNC was in bad shape. I blame them as much as Putin, Bernie, HRC and the media. Moore was abd is speaking for the same guys he has since "Roger and Me". The nderemployment in the Rust Belt. Team HRC was flirting with winning Georgia and Arizona and missed his and others' warning signs from the north.

[Kahuna7]

138. Hillary lost by 77K votes in three states that were almost surgically supressed.

Bernie did a lot to suppress turnout with all his claims of rigged primaries which wasn't true. Did the DNC prefer Hillary? Of course they did. She was a party stalwart, whereas Bernie has been running against them his entire career. Including in 2016.

Then with the help of some Bernie supporters, and the Russians, the phrase, "super predators" was used to make young blacks believe Hillary was racist, so they did not vote for her. In all, more than 10% of Bernie voters voted third party or for trump. They sure showed us, didn't they?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

145. we totally disagree. DNC better start screaming about rigging now.

The disinformation and effort to win in those rust belt states will be worse than 2016. I wish Moore would focus on that. He was correct about 2016. I think he's wrong now though.

[Cha]

152. Kahuna is Absolutely Correct.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

154. I don't actually like the denialism. But stick with it if you must.

[Cha]

155. Sorry.. I think you should take your own advice.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

159. Here's the thing.

"Here in this shell of a house
This house that is struggling to be
A beacon of light shining all through the night
So bright that the whole world could see

But now there's a chill in the room
Windows are starting to leak
Floorboards are starting to creak
And hope, hope may arrive
The house will survive
If only these walls could speak

Take care of this house
Keep it from harm
If bandits break in sound the alarm
Care for this house
Shine it by hand
And keep it so clean the glow can be seen all over the land

Be careful at night, check all the doors
If someone makes off with a dream, the dream will be yours
Take care of this house
Be always on call
For this house is the hope of us all

Beware of false smiles that lead you astray
When someone is telling you lies let truth lead the way
Take of this house
Be always on call
Care for this house
It's the hope of us all" *

Trump is a slimey, malignant maniacal narcissist, so much worse than Bernstein could have imagined, who exploits every opportunity to get what he wants. We saw him do this in New York since the late 70s. His power over people like Barr and his ability to neutralize the FEC puts him at great advantage. He is a rule breaker whose only joy is doing so in the open for all to see. Always has been. He protects himself with as many people as he needs from every corner of the planet. If I knew this, the Clintons must have known it as well.

So, I appreciate your examples of the road map to how we got where we are. I want a road map of how we get out of quicksand. The public needs to know how totally rigged he has made the levers of power and how the worst of the worst are now aligned in our govt to continue their gravy train til the planet gives up the ghost.

* by Leonard Bernstein, from "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue". Take Care of This House. From May 1976.

[Cha]

163. Michael Moore is Still Wrong.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

164. Cha, please wake up Biden and tell him that.

[Cha]

165. Moore is wrong again.. he had the

******* nerve to say "..all President Obama would be known for is being the first Black President."

Moore is an idiot.

Link to tweet

[SleeplessinSoCal]

170. please tell us Biden's response is to his vote on Iraq.

"Biden subsequently voted in favor of authorizing the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In 2006, about three years into the war in Iraq, Biden believed the original authorization on the use of military force in Iraq in 2002 had been a mistake because President Bush "used his congressional authority unwisely

I don't like this tit for tat exchange at all. But it led to a big picture issue about Biden's record. He is running, not Moore. How us he explaining that vote today?

[Cha]

171. Moore is an idiot.. your attempt to distract

from that is Not working.

[Kahuna7]

158. I have linked sources to the information I posted.....

although, I saw what was happening in real time. I don't shut my eyes to uncomfortable truths.The next time you want to challenge someone, you should probably use your google machine to check the veracity of the information you're challenging. Just a friendly suggestion.

Indictment: Russians also tried to help Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein presidential campaigns

Report: Russia Bought Anti-Black Lives Matter Facebook Ads

[Cha]

160. Mahalo for providing information

to the poster, Kahuna.

[Kahuna7]

161. You know me Cha. We go waaaaay back. I don't blow smoke...

Anything I say I can back it up with facts. I could have posted more articles than that. If it's an opinion I'll say so.

[Cha]

162. Exactly, Kahuna.. one gets to know DU members over the years..

those who "don't blow smoke.. " and..

[betsuni]

147. +1

[Cha]

156. You are so dead on, Kahuna!

Remember all those who voted for Stein's LIES, too.. they were more than the margin of trump voters in the Midwest swing states..

[CatMor]

14. I don't want to be excited ....

I want calm and peace of mind. With Biden we would be in capable hands with years of experience. What I don't need this time around is Michael Moore trying to be relevant. I don't give one damn for his opinion.

[TheRealNorth]

22. Whether you like Michael Moore or not

Last edited Wed Oct 2, 2019, 03:25 PM - Edit history (2)

Moore has insight on how blue collar whites in the Midwest think. I know this because I grew up blue collar in the Midwest. I think Biden still has an advantage with blue collar whites, but I don't think its a solid advantage. There are still a lot of undecideds out there.

[wasupaloopa]

26. Moore is old news. He is more an attention hawk than a truth sayer. Forget him!

[qazplm135]

28. Michael Moore

Predicts the Dems to lose every single election. If you always bet heads you are going to be right half the time

[jg10003]

55. Agreed. MM understands his people.

[Demsrule86]

98. He doesn't. He was promoting his book when he helped Kerry lose ...and was instrumental in helping

Hillary lose...and he voted for God Damn Nader...Moore can f' off.

[TheRealNorth]

126. People like Moore backed Nader in 2000

Because Democrats in leadership positions started supporting Trade Agreements that undercut organized labor in the Midwest (as well as gave competitive advantage go businesses that moved to countries with lax environmental regulations).

I was one of those Nader voters. Maybe you think that because I identified as an independent back then doesn't make me a Democrat now, despite the fact I have voted Democrat in every other state and federal race since turning 18.

And in Moore's movie in 2004, Farenheit 911, it pretty much slammed Bush, and he layed out in the movie how he felt he was used by the Republicans in 2000. So I have no idea why you are still criticizing him for the 2000 election unless you are still carrying a grudge from 2000.

Forgiveness goes both ways, you know. And carrying these 20 y.o. grudges does nothing to advance the cause.

Seriously, we need to stop overreacting to any minor slight to your favored candidate. Trolls and bullies get their jollies from that sort of stuff.

[Demsrule86]

132. Consider how different it would be if Bush had not been elected. What

You thought Bush would be better on trade? No matter how you rationalize it, a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush...and we got 9-11, 2 shitty wars, katrina and eventually an economic meltdown. I am virulently anti -trade but I voted for Gore. A Republican is always worse.

And yeah, I will never forgive the Nader crowd for inflicting Bush on this nation. And Moore said the Democratic Party was pathetic then and now too. He voted for Nader...I find Moore pathetic .. a has been trotted out to attack the Democratic Party and our candidates. He has done nothing but cause us to lose. This is our last stand. If Trump wins, the progressive movement is finished...more judges and policy for them...too awful to think about. But Moore and his rich buddies like Stein will be just fine. The rest of us not so much.

[peggysue2]

18. You want to be excited?

Go to a damn amusement park! We're talking about saving the country from a bunch of fascist knuckle draggers. Unless, of course, Moore wants more 'excitement' from the likes of Donald Trump to spur that Revolution along.

Good God, indeed!

[Green Line]

20. He's such an asshole

[emmaverybo]

31. +1000

[Cha]

47. Democracy is Exciting! Healthcare is Exciting!

Truth Not LIES is Exciting! Civil Rights are Exciting! Having A Dem in Office and not a brainless Monster IS Exciting! Enough food and shelter is Exciting! So many reasons to be Excited.. and GOTV!

Damn Michael Moore and his telling us what to do..

Link to tweet

Mahalo, Peggysue!

[oasis]

135. "A picture is worth a thousand words"

You said plenty there Cha. Thanks

[Cha]

142. That's exactly what I was thinking,

oasis!Mahalo!

[boomer_wv]

21. Excited?

If you call yourself part of the democratic base, and you feel like you need a candidate to "excite" you enough to get off your ass and put in the work to get Trump out of the White House.... I don't know what to say.

[Cha]

23. Exactly, boomer.. MM isn't giving the base

any credit.

Besides our Democratic Base is our POC and especially WOC.. they are the most Loyal Dems and I'm willing to bet that they will damn well be EXCITED for Joe or any of our Dems who win the Nom.

[TheRealNorth]

24. Voter enthusiasm is a real thing

Especially when you will have Russian and RW bots flooding Facebook/Social media with negative messaging/false information, and "Issue Advocacy groups" flooding TV and radio with negative advertising.

You want to know how Republicans won WI? Its because Democrat-leaning voters were convinced to stay home - that they were "all the same", or because "they are both crooks".

[Cha]

25. You just watch our Democratic Base Get EXCITED

when we have our NOM.. whether it's Biden or whomever is our Candidate.

The tweet in the OP is by an EW supporter.. she wants to WIN! AS do We ALL.

[boomer_wv]

27. Not the same thing.

In 2016 Democrats were complacent. We had been in power for 8 years and believed that Clinton was going to walk to victory for another 4. Nobody who stayed home actually thought that Trump was going to end up winning.

Now it is a lot different. Polls indicate that most people believe that Trump is likely to be reelected, and that is despite his historically low approval numbers. That's all of the motivation base voters need.

On the other hand, Biden is much less likely to alienate moderate or swing voters than Warren is. Despite what might or might not be true, most of these people already think she is a socialist and that would stick with her for the entire campaign.

It's a bit ironic as well, because you likely end up with more progressive policy wins with Biden than you do with Warren. Republicans would fight her tooth and nail for her entire Presidency, if she were to win. They would fight Biden too, but a lot of them actually like him and they would find ways to settle on some things.

M4A and a new assault weapons ban will be next to impossible for a President Warren to get through without a super majority in the Senate. However, a President Biden could probably get protections and expansions for Obamacare and universal background checks through with just a majority.

[TheRealNorth]

127. Regardless of who beats Trump

Moscow Mitch will dedicate himself to making him or her a 1-term president from day 1. I honestly don't give a wet shit about who Republicans in Congress prefer to work with.

[boomer_wv]

139. Great.

It's a great idea to become just like the Republicans.....only appeal to the base and screw everyone else.

[Wawannabe]

33. In 2016

I fucking would’ve done cartwheels from here to Washington fucking DC had Biden got in the race! ... that’s how exciting he is! I’m back in 2020 for Biden - got it?

[ffr]

35. I watched, thinking I'd be enlightened. I ended up stopping it.

100% Cha. It was a shit-show. Some valid points about Dems not having campaigned in WI & MI, but little else.

[Cha]

65. Thanks, ffr.. Michael Moore is always

a shit show from what I've seen come out of his mouth.

HawaiiDelilah has it exactly right.

[Big Chief]

38. Cue the circular firing squad...

He wasn’t talking to anyone here. He’s referring to the millions who still need a reason, other than Trump, to get off their butts and go vote.

[Cha]

39. No.. "cue the circular firing squad.." That doesn't

work here. Michael Moore can **** OFF.

Link to tweet

We Won the Blue Wave Midterms on Health Care with Nancy Pelosi's advice.. There are plenty of reasons to GOTV.

[democratisphere]

40. Michael Moore should team up with Joy Reid so they can have

a Joe Biden the front runner bashfest! I am sick of THIS CRAP!

[True Blue American]

41. I changed the channel

As soon as I heard he was coming on.

[democratisphere]

44. You are smart. Very smart!

Michael Moore is a divisive a**hole!

[True Blue American]

50. The last good thing about Mike

Was his exposure of Roger Smith. That was the first time anyone heard of him.

[Cha]

166. Is she still bashing Joe Biden?

[quickesst]

43. Michael Moore....

..... needs to take his overblown ego, stick some wings on it, and fly it into the sun. And no, I did not mean to say sunset..

[betsuni]

45. According to Moore, Bernie Sanders and Trump won Michigan and Wisconsin because

both of them presented themselves as outsiders who are "going to stop the madness, what working people are going through" at rallies and Hillary lost because she didn't hold lots of rallies in those states (and presumably that she didn't talk about the economy, although it's common knowledge that the most common word she used in speeches during her campaign was "jobs." ) He didn't mention Pennsylvania where Hillary campaigned a lot and still lost. The idea that people vote Republican because the Democratic nominee doesn't hold lots of rallies in the last few months before the election is ridiculous to me, being from Washington State. There's no way I believe anyone thinks, "Oh, a Republican held a rally in my town, but the Democrat didn't, it means the Republican really cares about me, I'm going to vote for them."

He ignores that one of the main reasons Trump got so many votes was because of identity, racism, the effect of the Obama presidency and then Trump weaponizing it. Is Moore saying that only candidates who "excite" people by being populists and promising a lot of things is the only way to win an election, and Biden won't do that because he doesn't like to promise things? Is he saying Americans are so stupid they want to be lied to, or just midwesterners?

[True Blue American]

51. I think we

Have had enough excitement to last a lifetime. I want experts who can right this ship. It is listing badly with the daily ignorance, corruption and lies.

[Blue_true]

150. I Pennsylvania, Hillary went to Philadelphia and Pittsburg.

She did not go to small cities and red counties there. Her campaign did basically the same thing in Florida as it did in Pennsylvania. Our 2020 nominee must live on the campaign trail and when he or she goes to a big city in a state, he or she must hit several smaller cities in that state during the visit.

If you look at how President Obama campaigned in 2008 and 2012, that is the model that our 2020 nominee must follow, not the one that Hillary did in 2016.

[betsuni]

151. From "What Happened":

"In Pennsylvania, where public and private polls showed a competitive race similar to 2012, we had nearly 500 staff on the ground, 120 more than the Obama campaign deployed four years before. We spent 211 percent more on television ads in the state. And I held more than twenty-five campaign events there during the general election. We also blanketed Pennsylvania with high-profile surrogates like President Obama and Vice President Biden. ... Here's the bottom line: I campaigned heavily across Pennsylvania, had an aggressive ground game and lots of advertising, and still lost by 44,000 votes, more than the margin in Wisconsin and Michigan combined. So it's just not credible that the best explanation for the outcome in those states -- and therefore the election -- was where I held rallies."

[AdamGG]

46. I'll do what I can to help electJoe if he's the nominee, but I think every day that he's uninspiring

I keep thinking that I wish Sherrod Brown had run because he's a hybrid of what's good about Biden (appeal in the midwest) and Warren/Harris/Buttigieg (progressive, more charismatic personality).

Trump has GOT TO GO, but the purpose of the primaries is to hash out among Democrats who we feel is the best choice. It wasn't unfair that Hillary criticized Obama as inexperienced and being unready to take the "3 AM phone call". That's part of the primary process and her supporters were ready to back Obama as the nominee after that battle was settled.

I don't see why people need to attack Moore for expressing something other than the most mainstream centrist opinion. If he does a Susan Sarandon and criticizes Biden AFTER he has the nomination, that's a different story, but now, what he's saying is fair game.

[Cha]

48. The tweet in the OP says it best.. if you can't

understand that then I can't help you.

There are people here who just don't like MM and haven't for a long time.. and we have every much a right to express that as MM does to get on tv and blab away.

Link to tweet

[True Blue American]

53. Thank you.

Proof of what Moore is.

[Cha]

56. Moore also said of President Obama that

"..he would only be known for being the First Black President".

I don't give a crap what MM has to say about anything.

Thank you, TBA

[True Blue American]

58. Why MSNBC

Has him on is beyond me.

[AdamGG]

54. Saying that the majority of Moore's celebrity comes from attacking Democrats is inaccurate

He's been at the forefront of addressing important issues repeatedly. Roger and Me warned of the consequences of US factory jobs being sent overseas in 1986. Bowling for Columbine was 2002. Sicko, in 2007, championed the need for a single payer healthcare system.

He acknowledged that endorsing Nader in 2000 was a mistake and addressed that in 2004:

How many Democratic figures went on record against the Iraq War from the very outset. Moore was ahead of much of the Democratic leadership there.

[Cha]

57. MM doesn't know shite.. he said "President Obama

would only be known for being the first Black President."

I don't give a crap what Moore has to say.

[True Blue American]

59. Moore seems to go every way

The wind blows. He used to focus on decent causes, but his wondering into Nader territory, posing with Snowden, insulting leading Democrats. I do not want to hear him.

When you insult leading Democrats you are past your sell date.

[Cha]

60. The m$$$media finds him useful to

to bash good Dems.

That pic is of Moore and Julian Assange, btw.. the one who tried to push the conspiracy theories about Seth Rich..

1. Trump allies, WikiLeaks and Russia are pushing a nonsensical conspiracy theory

snip//

Trump campaign surrogates are fueling a conspiracy theory that a murdered Democratic National Committee staffer was connected to the hacking of the DNC, a theory being pushed by WikiLeaks and the Russian state-controlled press ...

Trump allies, Assange, and the Russian government are somewhat unlikely cohorts but they all have two things in common – hatred of Hillary Clinton and an interest in diverting suspicion away from the real culprits in the DNC hack, Russian intelligence services seeking to interfere in the U.S. election to Trump’s benefit.

Donald Trump’s longtime friend Roger Stone has been at the forefront of the Trump camp effort to try to connect the Russian hacking of the DNC to the tragic death of 27-year old Seth Rich, a DNC staffer who was shot and killed in early July in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington. Stone says his claims are based on statements by Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder who released the hacked DNC emails and is threatening to release more. Stone also claims to be in direct contact with Assange ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016165216#post1

[Demsrule86]

100. No it is absolutely true...I posted this on another thread...and he voted for Nader too.

https://newrepublic.com/article/67674/crashing-the-party old article shows how longstanding his hatred of the Democratic Party...he has repeatedly call it ' pathetic' by the way.

[True Blue American]

52. Sherrod could

Still be selected as VP. But at this point I want him right here! sherrod is the only anchor we have left in Ohio. They rejected Cordray. I think that was a terrible mistake. But I also think the Ohio election was rigged. Husted did so much damage, closing Precincts, kicking blacks off the voter rolls.

I can only hope the unbiased panel we voted for can clean the mess up in 2021.

[Demsrule86]

134. I find Warren uninspiring. But i will be all in

Should she be the nominee.

[Mike Nelson]

61. Michael Moore does have...

... valid points. He looks at certain sides... he sees half of something perfectly, but not the rest... He should have added something alerting his audience to GET EXCITED about Biden, if he wins the nom (and that is not certain). But getting back to not seeing everything... people may want boring and stable, not exciting. We want the voters to be passionate about normalcy.

[aikoaiko]

62. Sounds like it's something we need to consider.

[betsuni]

63. In what way?

[aikoaiko]

68. I think Moore comes from and understands the rust belt.

And the Rust Belt has been historical battle ground states for Democrats.

[betsuni]

69. But he thinks the 2016 Democratic primary was rigged and people voted for Trump because

of economic insecurity. This is incorrect. I don't think he understands the rust belt.

[gibraltar72]

64. He won't.

[Cha]

66. Yes, Joe Biden WILL.

[still_one]

67. Spare me the guy who said a vote for Gore is a vote for bush, or telling us how both McCain and

Romney would win, or during the Women's march when at the podium instead of addressing the WOMEN's march purpose, dissing the Democratic party, (which he does very well), until Ashley Judd grabbed the mike, and told him to step away.

I am so tired of MM, his negativity, and divisive bullshit

[Cha]

73. Thanks for that brief recap on some

of Moore's(Tweedledum & Tweedledee) worst hits, still_one.

[highplainsdem]

70. Agree completely, Cha! Breitbart loooved Michael Moore's comments, couldn't publish

them fast enough for their RWNJ readers. (Saw the links on Twitter, and when I checked quickly I saw they were happily using a clip from MSNBC.)

[Cha]

75. See! Of course RW love MM's blabbing about

Dems.. as one tweet said.. the minute MM stops bashing Dems is when he is no longer on TV.

Thanks for the info about this, highplainsdem!

[Thekaspervote]

71. He is such a loser. No better than stein and the others he's pictured with

[onetexan]

72. MM speaks for himself, not for us THE BASE. HawaiiDelilah is correct - I AM EXCITED JOE IS RUNNING!!

[TidalWave46]

74. Michael Moore is not the most intelligent person in each room he walks into.

He is a useful tool for the right. Many "purists" are.

[Cha]

77. Yeah, my friend just told me

that Brietbart put the clip up with Moore on msnbc right after it happened.

[TidalWave46]

84. Not even close to the first time he has been used on Brietbart.

Good catch. He damages our cause.

[NurseJackie]

76. I hate that Stein-loving, Nader-loving m-fucker!

He's such a negative force in Democratic politics. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

He needs to shut the fuck up!

[OilemFirchen]

79. I didn't watch. Who does he think is exciting? (n/t)

[Cha]

82. I didn't,either.. but gee

I wonder?

[OilemFirchen]

86. Trying to imagine a "tavern brawl" here...

Nope.

Now thinking about a brewpub contretemps.

Still got nothing.

[honest.abe]

80. This is so dumb and dangerous.

This is what many on the left did to Hillary in 2016. This is not going to affect the outcome of the primary but could affect the outcome of the general. This kind of talk can depress turnout. Does he want another 4 years of Trump!?!

[Cha]

83. Exactly, honest.abe.. that's what

HawaiiDelilah was saying in her tweet.

[PhoenixDem]

102. Exactly

They start brainwashing people with this "not exciting" meme

[beachbumbob]

85. I stopped caring about MM opinions a decade or so ago

he has done more to damage the democratic party than help it

[Gothmog]

88. I turned off morning joe When Moore came on

[mcar]

89. Why does anyone care what Michael Moore thinks?

[Cha]

91. He's apparently usefull to msnbc..

as the tweet said .. the minute MM stops bashing Dems is when he's no longer on tv.

I was told Brietbart posted his clip on their website as soon as it was available.

[mcar]

92. Of course they did

anything that slams Democrats is "news" to them.

[Gothmog]

101. I was wondering the same thing

I really do not care what Moore, Cenk, TYT or Greenwald think of any thing. The opinions of these people are meaningless to me

[brush]

94. What an irritant Moore is. He's good at supressing Dem votes and seems he's at...

it again. And he was also pushing a certain candidate from a small state and that seems like a repeat of the 2016 divisiveness which hampered us through out the campaign and resulted in tepid support for Hillary from a certain candidate's supporters.

As the race proceeds and narrows down Moore bears watching. IMO he's not entirely trustworthy. For some reason he didn't like Obama or Hillary.

[Cha]

99. And, I don't like Moore. He's useful to those

who like to see Good Dems Bashed.. that's it.





1. Trump allies, WikiLeaks and Russia are pushing a nonsensical conspiracy theory

snip//

Trump campaign surrogates are fueling a conspiracy theory that a murdered Democratic National Committee staffer was connected to the hacking of the DNC, a theory being pushed by WikiLeaks and the Russian state-controlled press ...

Trump allies, Assange, and the Russian government are somewhat unlikely cohorts but they all have two things in common – hatred of Hillary Clinton and an interest in diverting suspicion away from the real culprits in the DNC hack, Russian intelligence services seeking to interfere in the U.S. election to Trump’s benefit.

Donald Trump’s longtime friend Roger Stone has been at the forefront of the Trump camp effort to try to connect the Russian hacking of the DNC to the tragic death of 27-year old Seth Rich, a DNC staffer who was shot and killed in early July in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington. Stone says his claims are based on statements by Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder who released the hacked DNC emails and is threatening to release more. Stone also claims to be in direct contact with Assange ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016165216#post1

Link to tweet

[NYMinute]

95. That disheveled, poorly dressed slob Michael Moore

should just shut up.

[BlueMississippi]

96. It is operant conditioning by the far left

Tell a group of people repeatedly that a steak and lobster dinner is boring and they really start not getting excited about it. Then they run to the nearest Taco Bell to get something "exciting."

Biden is incredibly exciting -- when he puts on those aviator shades and comes to the podium like a warrior -- that gives me confidence that he will really beat Trump like a drum.

[emmaverybo]

153. Yes, The launch was exciting! And his speeches. The Iowa one was inspiring. Any one who

couldn’t find that speech a bit moving is a stone. Biden connects emotionally with audiences. He is
simply great with people—warm, authentic, empathic.

I drink my Joe out of a Biden cup. So there. Biden fans might not gush all over all the time, but we
are thrilled he is running.

[comradebillyboy]

106. Can MSNBC, Bill Mahr and their ilk spare me anything involving

Michael Moore at all. When he comes on I turn the channel.

[qazplm135]

108. sure...agreed...

now if we can just get rid of the "only Biden can win" posts here on DU we'd cover both extremes.

[Hal Zerozerozeronine]

109. K&R X Infinity

NEITHER NEEDED NOR HELPFUL, MOORE!!!

[Peacetrain]

110. Michael Moore has it so bass ackwards I do not even know where to begin

If it was as he says . Sanders would have won the primary last time.. not HRC.. and HRC won the general by 3 million votes.. she did not get Michigan and other states that have long been labor strong..and that has been a downfall of hers from the get go.. she does not relate well with the union people, and the lunchbucket people.. and guess what.. neither does Bernie.. and E. Warren while from this group.. has issues with it by being so professorial.. not fair.. just facts..

The uber left of the Democrats in general have lost the ability to talk to the working class.. they want to "save" them .. instead of understand them.. and Micheal Moore is in that same groupll no one wants charity. and that is what the Democratic party has come to mean to those in the working class.. the place you go to get charity..not acknowledgement of accomplishment on the working level..

Listen to Joe Biden.. he knows how to talk to people who are proud of what they have accomplished..

[Turin_C3PO]

116. Republicans

often say Democrats don’t value accomplishments and instead want to give “charity”. Not accusing you of anything but I think you should know that it’s a Repub talking point about liberals.

I do think Biden will do better in the swing states, mainly because he’s male, than Warren. Warren would win too though, I believe. But it would be by a smaller margin.

I support Biden over Warren because I think Joe will demolish him by the biggest margin.

[Peacetrain]

123. That is a talking point that the far right takes advantage of...

that was the point of my post... and ignoring it and letting them use it, (like the flag, or patriotism etc.. letting the right claim that as their own).. we do that at our own detriment.. let me give you an example right here in DU.. happens all the time.. someone misspells a word or uses improper grammar.. in comes someone who uses that against a person instead of addressing what they are posting about.. as if some grammatical mistake totally makes their ideas or points of view null and void.. d

[Turin_C3PO]

124. I agree with you.

I hope it didn’t seem like I was trying to invalidate your post! I enjoy your posts here on DU

[Peacetrain]

129. And I love reading your posts too..

I was just explaining my post

[Blue_Tires]

111. Moore is dead to me along with

all the other useful idiot "liberals" who hated the 'establishment' Hillary Clinton so fucking much that they idly stood by and let literal Nazis infest all three branches of government... Moore is even worse than the do-nothings because he was lowkey playing that bullshit "Burn down the party to save it" long game talking about a Trump win would indirectly be the best thing to ever happen to us... Someone ask Mike how the fuck that master plan has worked out so far??

Until I see some recognition of their own culpability, they are not to be trusted. Believe me, these people fucked us in '16 and they'll do the same in '20 if we aren't vigilant.

[oasis]

112. I'm sick of MM. He basically said Joe's candidacy would yield the same

results as Hillary.

MM, may be a "Yoda" to far lefties, but he does not speak for the majority of Democrats.

[Hortensis]

113. The MSM use his type to "balance" the negative Trump/Repub stories.

Can't have us looking good in comparison after all.

[oasis]

115. I'd love to see a solid Dem take on MM in a panel discussion.

Hakeem Jeffries, Jennifer Granholm or Claire McCaskill would set him straight on what Dems need to do to win the WH.

[Hortensis]

117. He's like RW brain-stirrers whose messages depend on

not being challenged.

Right before the midterms he came on late-night TV to supposedly speak to youth voters, telling them in effect that, even though, sure, they were right to feel that there was nothing good to vote for, they did have something they needed to vote against.

The big blue wave happened in spite of people like this, something seriously wrong with all of them.

[Amimnoch]

114. "excitement bullshit. Fuck that. Seriously." yeah. This.

Frankly, the only one that would totally kill my excitement about 2020 is BS.

[betsuni]

136. Just saw him on Morning Joe calling Trump and his team evil geniuses, that they're not stupid.

Joe says, "Wow, you define geniuses differently than I do."

We all do.

[Cha]

143. "But I think we have to embrace Trump," Moore said

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

But, M.Moore also says trump is like "hitler".. so why should we "embrace" someone like hitler? Or the fucking moron?

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

Thank you, betsuni.. you reminded me of MM's quotes from last year..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211167976#post50

[Gothmog]

137. I had to turn Ari off again tonight when Moore showed up

[Hortensis]

141. I do that also, not just irritation but out of principle.

This is a cable show, so if significant numbers of people click away they know it.

Moore's a scorpion by nature and no surprise that claiming a goal while at the same time helping sabotage it hasn't changed him in the least. People who set themselves up to be stung again with Trump/Repub victories shouldn't. Those who didn't know what he was then, should know now.

[Cha]

172. More Michael Moore Stupidity..

Link to tweet

[DrFunkenstein]

144. Biden: "I'm drawing as big of crowds, or bigger than anybody"

And if Biden said it, it must be true.

[KPN]

157. I will vote for Joe if he is our nominee without any hesitation or complaint. I also think

MM's comment or concern is a legitimate one. Like him or hate him, he makes a point.

[Cha]

167. Freaking Michael Moore doesn't "excite" me..

What's he ever done for Democracy?

He had the ******* nerve to say "..all President Obama would be known for is being the first Black President."

Moore is an idiot.

Link to tweet

Joe Biden has done exponentially more for our country than MM has.

[Joe941]

168. Michael Moore has earned some opinion time...

He predicted 2016 when no one else did.

[Cha]

169. MM said Romney was going to WIN, too..

he also had the ******* nerve to say "..all President Obama would be known for is being the first Black President."

Moore is an idiot.

Link to tweet

Moore can have his "opinions" and we have the right to tell what the hell we think of them.

[still_one]

176. He also said both McCain and Romeny would win. Remember when he said a voite for Gore

was a vote for bush

He is a real soothsayer

You'd do better with a flip of a coin, and he was a disgrace at the women's march dissing the Democratic party until Ashley Judd to the podium and told him to get lost

[Gothmog]

173. Do not watch Ari tonight

Moore is on The Beat. TI did not watch the clip on twitter and now I will skip The Beat tonight. I have the show on DVR but will just delete it without watching

[Cha]

174. Thanks for the heads up, Goth..

lol

[Gothmog]

178. Moore is on the Last Word also tonight Cha

[Cha]

179. smh..

seriously.

[betsuni]

182. I watched and he praised both Obama and Hillary. He was being good and only bashing Republicans.

He did say that Bernie understands capitalism better than Elizabeth Warren and that's why he's endorsing him, and of course that is wrong. Warren is literally a professor of capitalism.

[comradebillyboy]

175. I'd have a real hard time voting for anyone endorsed by Michale Moore. But

of all the 2020 candidates Sanders has always been at the bottom of my list along with Tulsi Gabbard. So Moore's endorsement makes no difference to me.

[Gothmog]

177. Moore is also on the Last Word

Luckily Lawrence is not on tonight. When I heard that Moore was going to be on, I changed channels.

[StarfishSaver]

180. I didn't see him say that

Because I changed the channel as soon as he came on. I lost interest in anything he has to say quite a while ago.

[Gothmog]

181. I feel the same way about Moore

I ended not watching Yhe Beat and the Last Word because Moore was on these shows

[uponit7771]

183. K&R, Dems are not excited by bad policy

[Gothmog]

184. I skipped the Bowling movie last night on MSNBC