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BeyondGeography

(39,477 posts)
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:02 PM Aug 2019

Warren offers public apology over claim to tribal heritage, receives standing ovation

Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)

SIOUX CITY, Iowa — Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren offered a public apology Monday to Native Americans over her past claim to tribal heritage, directly tackling an area that’s proved to be her biggest political liability. “Like anyone who has been honest with themselves, I know I have made mistakes,” the Massachusetts senator said at the start of her appearance at a forum on Native American issues in this pivotal early-voting state. “I am sorry for the harm I have caused.”

Her past claim to tribal ancestry, which culminated in her release of a DNA analysis last year, had drawn criticism from some Native Americans and dogged her 2020 campaign in its early weeks. But Warren, who last week released a detailed policy agenda to help Native Americans, has since climbed in the polls.

Warren drew a standing ovation from the audience at the kickoff of the two-day forum, which is drawing 10 of her White House rivals. The event promises to test Warren’s ability to move beyond the flap over her discussions of her heritage, for which she had previously apologized privately to the Cherokee Nation.

“I have listened and I have learned a lot” from conversations with Native Americans in recent months, Warren said, describing herself as “grateful” for the discussions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/warren-to-test-ability-to-move-beyond-native-american-flap/2019/08/19/09c0197e-c28c-11e9-8bf7-cde2d9e09055_story.html


Edited to add this quote from Rep. Deb Haaland (D-NM), who introduced Warren:

“I say the president who worships Andrew Jackson, who coddles white supremacists and defends Vladimir Putin, who cages children and freely admitted to assaulting women, is no match for a woman with a plan.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-native-american.amp.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Warren offers public apology over claim to tribal heritage, receives standing ovation (Original Post) BeyondGeography Aug 2019 OP
Good for her mcar Aug 2019 #1
She has nothing to apologize for HelenWheels Aug 2019 #2
True - not sure why she chose to apologize, though. Skya Rhen Aug 2019 #3
In fact she does have BlueMTexpat Aug 2019 #7
The issue was her idenifying as American Indian on her 1986 State Bar of Texas write-in form... Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #10
President Asshole and his minions will NEVER let that go. maxsolomon Aug 2019 #24
Not really. Have you ever heard of the one drop rule? pnwmom Aug 2019 #27
I don't buy that at all. Not in 1986. Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #30
She had started in the decades earlier. And it brought her no benefit, so why pnwmom Aug 2019 #33
Why would she claim to be American Indian? Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #35
It was a mistake. But I disagree that it was "disingenuous claim " as you said. pnwmom Aug 2019 #36
What is wrong with being proud of your Native ancestry, however small? SunSeeker Aug 2019 #46
same with Japanese-American internment torius Aug 2019 #59
Let's be real. Very unlikely she was "claiming" it for honesty's sake. MadDAsHell Aug 2019 #65
There were NO BENEFITS to claiming it on that Texas bar form. And the forms she signed earlier pnwmom Aug 2019 #66
How was it "tisingenuous?" She was told she had NA heritage. Merlot Aug 2019 #48
How is it not? Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #69
You weren't raised in Oklahoma. According to this article written in 2013, pnwmom Aug 2019 #72
So do I DownriverDem Aug 2019 #22
She claimed NA ancestry -- She NEVER claimed Tribal membership whathehell Aug 2019 #44
Exactly. nt SunSeeker Aug 2019 #47
I think the issue was always her putting American Indian on 1986 State Bar of Texas write-in form... Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #9
Well, in 1986 you couldn't check your ancestry with a DNA test. Mr.Bill Aug 2019 #11
I've seen no claims made by her that she was told she was 100% American Indian. Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #16
I've also never heard she claimed she was 100% Native American. n/t Mr.Bill Aug 2019 #18
And yet she put her race as America Indian... Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #28
She does have Native American DNA. SunSeeker Aug 2019 #43
When she was young, the term octaroon was still in use, in some parts of the country. pnwmom Aug 2019 #73
Some people WOULD say they were African American with a black great-grandfather blm Aug 2019 #81
Why should 37 be a disqualifing age? She never claimed her "race" was NA. Merlot Aug 2019 #51
She did claim American Indian as her race Docreed2003 Aug 2019 #58
She never claimed to be full blooded Indian, and alhough she whathehell Aug 2019 #53
No, but she put she was Native American down as her ethnicity. Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #68
I get what your saying, but whathehell Aug 2019 #77
Her claim was NOT false. The DNA test proved she had Native American DNA. SunSeeker Aug 2019 #42
A President who will listen and apologize when needed backtoblue Aug 2019 #4
This! eom BlueMTexpat Aug 2019 #8
I thought she already did the s, and we were beyond this? still_one Aug 2019 #5
Folks won't let it go exboyfil Aug 2019 #37
I guess you are right. still_one Aug 2019 #39
Actually, they are letting it go, as her climbing poll numbers suggest whathehell Aug 2019 #54
I certainly hope so exboyfil Aug 2019 #56
Yes, I think so, though.like you, I'll vote for whoever gets the Nom. n/t whathehell Aug 2019 #62
Will not diminish MSM harping. Sneederbunk Aug 2019 #6
True, but she has taken the right route with this BeyondGeography Aug 2019 #34
True. Much of M$M Owner$hip doesn't like her or her message. n/t MarcA Aug 2019 #50
It's already diminished -- It's been dead in the media for months. Only whathehell Aug 2019 #55
She should tell the story of Pocahontas MissKat Aug 2019 #12
I like this idea. Freethinker65 Aug 2019 #29
That's an extremely good idea, imo renate Aug 2019 #32
i would like to see this if she is the nominee and he brings it up in a debate JI7 Aug 2019 #70
Apology unnecessary. djacq Aug 2019 #13
Tha snatches the toxicity out of drumpf's repeated rant about mfcorey1 Aug 2019 #14
This is what she was told.. it is what she believed.. yeah Peacetrain Aug 2019 #15
Warren will be an excellent President for all Americans! B Stieg Aug 2019 #17
Cheeto should apologize for claiming to be Swedish sandensea Aug 2019 #19
The only people who will continue to use this against Warren qazplm135 Aug 2019 #20
K&R nt NYMinute Aug 2019 #21
I can definitely empathize with Warren. When I was a kid, I was always PatrickforO Aug 2019 #23
My story is almost the same susanr516 Aug 2019 #67
I'm Cherokee living in the Cherokee Nation yellerpup Aug 2019 #25
Holy crap, why would a Native American ever be a Republican? SunSeeker Aug 2019 #49
I wonder about that myself. yellerpup Aug 2019 #57
Many Cherokees are traditionally conservatives obamanut2012 Aug 2019 #63
True. yellerpup Aug 2019 #79
That makes sense. Thanks, yellerpup. pnwmom Aug 2019 #74
Nearly everyone does claim tribal heritage in Oklahoma. yellerpup Aug 2019 #80
I don't believe she argued for tribal heritage, but rather, claimed only that according to family emmaverybo Aug 2019 #26
My wife, who is mainly Irish is a serious studier of geneology Mr.Bill Aug 2019 #60
The DNA test doesn't really prove your wife was wrong, though, pnwmom Aug 2019 #75
lol ! stonecutter357 Aug 2019 #31
She has nothing to apologize for EveHammond13 Aug 2019 #38
I can relate to Elizebeth Warren. Growing up I was told I was part Cherokee ... marble falls Aug 2019 #40
k&r DesertRat Aug 2019 #41
I was born in Oklahoma... Toorich Aug 2019 #45
Unlike you, Warren's DNA test proved she did indeed have Native American ancestry. SunSeeker Aug 2019 #52
The difference is, Warren's DNA tested positive for Native American blood whathehell Aug 2019 #78
To publicly claim Native American ancestry when all you have as proof is family legend elocs Aug 2019 #61
Her DNA test did NOT come back with a "big zero" like yours. It proved she was right. SunSeeker Aug 2019 #64
But she didn't publicly claim it. When she was campaigning against Scott Brown, pnwmom Aug 2019 #76
I applaud Senator Warren for giving a real and heartfelt apology Gothmog Aug 2019 #71
 

mcar

(42,877 posts)
1. Good for her
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:04 PM
Aug 2019

I'm glad she did this and put the issue to rest.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

HelenWheels

(2,284 posts)
2. She has nothing to apologize for
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:09 PM
Aug 2019

How many of us had been told by our families we may be related to royalty when we weren't. I was told I had Polish royalty in my blood. It was a family myth. Warren's family truly believed they were related to Native Americans and were proud of this heritage although it was false.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Skya Rhen

(2,702 posts)
3. True - not sure why she chose to apologize, though.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:13 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMTexpat

(15,409 posts)
7. In fact she does have
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:25 PM
Aug 2019

some small NA heritage, although it is not nearly enough to qualify her for tribal membership. And she never asserted that it would be.

The claim was NOT false. But she did ruffle some feathers, which have since been largely unruffled.

She simply chose to acknowledge that this is a sensitive point for many Native Americans and has learned from the experience.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
10. The issue was her idenifying as American Indian on her 1986 State Bar of Texas write-in form...
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:40 PM
Aug 2019

That was a very disingenuous claim on her part. What's done is done and it's not disqualifying but I don't think the issue was just that she claimed to have some Native American heritage.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

maxsolomon

(33,773 posts)
24. President Asshole and his minions will NEVER let that go.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:54 PM
Aug 2019

It will become the central issue of the campaign should Warren secure the nomination. "Pocahontas" will be drilled into everyone's brain like "Crooked" Hillary.

Remember, Democrats can never lie; Republics can lie with impunity.

Daddy is funny when he lies, but if Mommy lies, it is very very bad.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
27. Not really. Have you ever heard of the one drop rule?
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:10 PM
Aug 2019

This was the legal view, in many of the states, that having any "blood" from an ancestor of color made you non-white. Many people growing up when Warren did, possibly including Warren and her family, had absorbed this view. There were even names for gradations of black-ness. For example, people with 1 great-grandparent who was black and 7 who were white were "octoroons."

The one drop rule was more commonly used in connection with people of African descent, but it could be applied to any non-white or subordinate group. If you had any non-white blood you were viewed as tainted. Warren could have hidden hers, but she claimed it.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

It is also known as the "one black ancestor rule," some courts have called it the "traceable amount rule," and anthropologists call it the "hypo-descent rule," meaning that racially mixed persons are assigned the status of the subordinate group.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
30. I don't buy that at all. Not in 1986.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:15 PM
Aug 2019

My dad claimed his great-grandfather was half-back and he never claimed to be black himself.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
33. She had started in the decades earlier. And it brought her no benefit, so why
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:18 PM
Aug 2019

would you ascribe any nefarious motives to it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
35. Why would she claim to be American Indian?
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:20 PM
Aug 2019

She knew any link to American Indian heritage was far removed from her ancestry and yet she still felt the need to claim being one. It was a mistake and she rightfully apologized for it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
36. It was a mistake. But I disagree that it was "disingenuous claim " as you said.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:22 PM
Aug 2019

It was a mistake, but not dishonest.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(52,313 posts)
46. What is wrong with being proud of your Native ancestry, however small?
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:51 PM
Aug 2019

Sheesh.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

torius

(1,652 posts)
59. same with Japanese-American internment
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 04:58 PM
Aug 2019

There were people of 1/16 Japanese descent. And the architect of it stated “one drop” applied. This was not so very long ago. Many interned are still alive. And there may still be people alive who were born as slaves.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
65. Let's be real. Very unlikely she was "claiming" it for honesty's sake.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 07:47 PM
Aug 2019

By 1986 there were far more likely to be benefits from claiming native American ancestry than being viewed as "tainted."

I've even seen some publications go so far as to have previously referred to her as a "woman of color." You don't think that gave her a 1-up from schools looking to show diversity efforts?

And it went way past 1986:
https://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/05/fordham-piece-called-warren-harvard-laws-first-woman-of-color-123526

"Warren had described herself as a minority on a law professors' listing for several years, ending in 1995. She has said she wanted to meet people like herself, but stopped when she realized that's not what the listing was for."

I appreciate her forthrightness and regret in 2019 but that doesn't wash over what were very likely pretty selfish motivations for why she did it in the first place.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
66. There were NO BENEFITS to claiming it on that Texas bar form. And the forms she signed earlier
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 10:08 PM
Aug 2019

also came with no benefits.

She thought she had some N.A. ancestry and she didn't want to discount it, and she was interested in meeting other people. That's all this was.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
48. How was it "tisingenuous?" She was told she had NA heritage.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:54 PM
Aug 2019

She believed it, she checked a box. Doesn't sound like any intent to decieve.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
69. How is it not?
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 11:26 PM
Aug 2019

My dad claims my great-grandfather was half black. I don't go around claiming to be black because I know that was a good few generations ago. There's a reason she apologized for it. But to suggest she didn't do anything problematic is silly. She did. She apologized for it. Okay. Cool.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
72. You weren't raised in Oklahoma. According to this article written in 2013,
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 04:29 AM
Aug 2019

way before this controversy, almost everyone this reporter talked to in Oklahoma thought s/he was of N.A. descent.

So she wasn't being disingenuous. She had just absorbed the beliefs of the people surrounding her, including her own family members.

Also, as recently as 2007, the Cherokee Nation changed its constitution to require a blood connection for tribal membership. This was done in connection with disenrolling the Freedmen, the descendants of black slaves held by the Cherokees. But the black Freedmen were on the Cherokee rolls as part of a treaty with the U.S., so the courts eventually ruled against the Cherokees, saying that the treaty required the to remain on the rolls.

So this may be one more reason Warren thought that her possible blood connection mattered. The Cherokee Nation had written it into their constitution 12 years ago, and then spent years defending that in court.

https://www.salon.com/2013/05/21/slave_descendants_seek_equal_rights_from_cherokee_nation_partner/?fbclid=IwAR2_yR1JvSQv501w-Izqeonba-AWvJ5wWOX46XZWav2mHUH06ocGIz_Av8Y

During the year I spent reporting this story, nearly everyone I met in Oklahoma claimed Indian heritage. To many, the notion that Indian blood pumps through them, irrespective of quantum or degree, is a birthright. It suggests a dual identity. And it insinuates indigenous roots — a deeper, more authentic tie to land and country that predates statehood and union. But unlike most, Payton possesses the documents to back his claims.

SNIP


From the Smithsonian:

https://americanindian.si.edu/exhibitions/indivisible/cherokee_freedmen.html

Early in the 1800s, some Cherokees acquired slaves, and in the 1830s, enslaved African Americans accompanied the Cherokees when the federal government forced them to move to Indian Territory (Oklahoma), where the tribe struggled to rebuild its culture and institutions. By 1861, there were 4,000 black slaves living among the Cherokees.

After the Civil War, the tribe signed a treaty that granted former slaves, or freedmen, “all the rights of Native Cherokees.” But in 2007, Cherokees amended their tribal constitution, making “Indian blood” a requirement for citizenship. As a result, some 2,800 descendants of Cherokee freedmen were excluded from membership.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DownriverDem

(6,326 posts)
22. So do I
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:44 PM
Aug 2019

My DNA test showed I am 0.03 Native American going back to the 1700s in what became Canada. My father told us we had NA in our background.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
44. She claimed NA ancestry -- She NEVER claimed Tribal membership
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:46 PM
Aug 2019

Those are two different things, so I don't know what she's apologizing for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
9. I think the issue was always her putting American Indian on 1986 State Bar of Texas write-in form...
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:36 PM
Aug 2019

That's the stickler for her - as this goes beyond just identifying with family stories. Clearly, by the time Warren was an adult (she would have been 37 in 1986), she should have known her race wasn't American Indian.

I'm glad she is apologizing - but no, I disagree that she has nothing to apologize for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr.Bill

(24,450 posts)
11. Well, in 1986 you couldn't check your ancestry with a DNA test.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:59 PM
Aug 2019

I know many people over 37 today who have no idea of their ancestry beyond their grandparents, if they even know that much. It was not uncommon to believe what your parents told you. I'm 66 and was always told I was "100% German", which I believed. My recent DNA test shows I am nearly one third Scandinavian.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
16. I've seen no claims made by her that she was told she was 100% American Indian.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:19 PM
Aug 2019

So, no, even if she was told she had American Indian heritage, putting that down seems extremely problematic.

My dad told me my great-grandfather was half-black...I would never put black as my race, tho.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr.Bill

(24,450 posts)
18. I've also never heard she claimed she was 100% Native American. n/t
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:22 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
28. And yet she put her race as America Indian...
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:14 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(52,313 posts)
43. She does have Native American DNA.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:42 PM
Aug 2019

You are referring to a card that asked for race background. At the time she filled it out, she knew she had some Native American blood, just no clue how much, and the card did not define it as only people who were 100% a particular race (almost no people are!). What's wrong with being proud of your Native American ancestry? She never profited from it nor claimed she was 100% Native American.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
73. When she was young, the term octaroon was still in use, in some parts of the country.
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 04:39 AM
Aug 2019

And it would have applied to you, if one of your 8 great grandparents was black.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(113,368 posts)
81. Some people WOULD say they were African American with a black great-grandfather
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 08:27 AM
Aug 2019

And would do so proudly. Why are you basing your case on what YOU would do as if yours is the only legitimate course?

Guess what - I am half Czech, and the rest is a mix of Irish-English with a dash of Northern African from the Moors. I LOVE to say I’m black-Irish.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
51. Why should 37 be a disqualifing age? She never claimed her "race" was NA.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:58 PM
Aug 2019

Heritage is different than race.

I can actually see why she apologized. She talked to NA's and realized that her small percentage of NA ancestry really wasn't enough to be mentioned, and that bothered them. I think she handled it gracefully and the NA community has moved on.

It's only a "flap" in the media that needs something to flap about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Docreed2003

(17,075 posts)
58. She did claim American Indian as her race
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 04:51 PM
Aug 2019


Still, this move today was a good one by her
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
53. She never claimed to be full blooded Indian, and alhough she
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:06 PM
Aug 2019


never sought nor claimed Tribal membership, one only needs a PERCENTAGE of NA blood (Cherokee tribe requires only one twelfth) to qualify, so I doubt her checking that box meant anything beyond that.

Were you to see a photo of her.mother, whom she doesn't physically favor, you'd never doubt her Indian ancestry.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
68. No, but she put she was Native American down as her ethnicity.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 11:23 PM
Aug 2019

That's a pretty big commitment for someone who was only basing her ancestry off long ago family stories.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
77. I get what your saying, but
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 05:37 AM
Aug 2019

for ine thing, her DNA test confirmed those "long ago stories" of NA heritage as true.
For another, where does it say one's ancestry in a group .
must be 100% in order to identify as a member? People of mixed Black and White ancestry routinely identify as African American.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(52,313 posts)
42. Her claim was NOT false. The DNA test proved she had Native American DNA.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:37 PM
Aug 2019

The fact that people, like you apparently, thought she falsely was claiming Native American heritage is why she did the DNA test. But then some Native Americans, a small but widely reported on number, were offended that she took the test because they believe DNA tests have no relevance to whether one is a member of an actual Native tribe. However, she never claimed to be a member of a tribe. But she still apologized. I don't think she should have apologized and I don't think most Native Americans were offended.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

backtoblue

(11,391 posts)
4. A President who will listen and apologize when needed
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:14 PM
Aug 2019

IMO self reflection and humility are leadership qualities that you just can't fake. Addressing your mistakes with true introspect and empathy is a show of personal strength and virtue.

She's the whole package.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(93,432 posts)
5. I thought she already did the s, and we were beyond this?
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:22 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

exboyfil

(17,884 posts)
37. Folks won't let it go
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:26 PM
Aug 2019

It sucks. You can lie about getting hundreds of MIA bodies back from Korea when you are President and no one brings it up, but something you did 30 years ago is disqualifying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(93,432 posts)
39. I guess you are right.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:29 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
54. Actually, they are letting it go, as her climbing poll numbers suggest
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:10 PM
Aug 2019

which is why Trump is trying -- in his own words -- to "bring it back"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

exboyfil

(17,884 posts)
56. I certainly hope so
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:41 PM
Aug 2019

Not my first choice, but I have no problem supporting her if she gets the nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
62. Yes, I think so, though.like you, I'll vote for whoever gets the Nom. n/t
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 07:36 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sneederbunk

(14,477 posts)
6. Will not diminish MSM harping.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:23 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,477 posts)
34. True, but she has taken the right route with this
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:18 PM
Aug 2019

One that is consistent with her entire candidacy; a well-thought out plan that has won the support of many influential people in Indian Country, not least because it was developed in consultation with them. Great write-up here (don’t miss the last three paragraphs):

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/news/elizabeth-warren-says-us-has-a-moral-obligation-to-indian-country-y5lA2ZHnbUCoGRbTN-XmJw/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
50. True. Much of M$M Owner$hip doesn't like her or her message. n/t
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:57 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
55. It's already diminished -- It's been dead in the media for months. Only
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:17 PM
Aug 2019

Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2019, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Chump's last rally and her own successful recent initiatuve, brought it out of mothballs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MissKat

(219 posts)
12. She should tell the story of Pocahontas
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:05 PM
Aug 2019

A woman who became a bridge between two cultures.

A courageous woman who should be looked upon as someone to be admired, not belittled.


When Elizabeth raises up Pocahontas she will take away Trump's joker card.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Freethinker65

(10,349 posts)
29. I like this idea.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:15 PM
Aug 2019

She could also bring up the fact that most current citizens of this nation have immigrant ancestors and it surprising that we know so little of the history of true Native Americans (especially females) except for a few names, like Pocahontas, which we learned (and Trump obviously was able to remember and thought was humorous and clever to make fun of) in elementary school.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

renate

(13,776 posts)
32. That's an extremely good idea, imo
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:15 PM
Aug 2019

Not just because it would invalidate the use of “Pocahontas” as an insult, which it shouldn’t be anyway for heaven’s sake , but it would educate the knuckledraggers a bit and give credit to a woman who was part of our country’s history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,564 posts)
70. i would like to see this if she is the nominee and he brings it up in a debate
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 11:42 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

djacq

(1,637 posts)
13. Apology unnecessary.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:05 PM
Aug 2019

Although I'm African American, I do have French Ancestry. I could claim French American on any form but I chose African American because it's the heritage that I and my family have known for generations.

There's nothing wrong in claiming your heritage from whatever it branches off from.

How about Drumpf claiming his heritage?;

[link:

|
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mfcorey1

(11,015 posts)
14. Tha snatches the toxicity out of drumpf's repeated rant about
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:10 PM
Aug 2019

Warren.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Peacetrain

(23,294 posts)
15. This is what she was told.. it is what she believed.. yeah
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:14 PM
Aug 2019

Trump is going to keep picking at that hoping to open the wound..but I think most people understand the history behind the claim..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
17. Warren will be an excellent President for all Americans!
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:21 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sandensea

(22,202 posts)
19. Cheeto should apologize for claiming to be Swedish
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:27 PM
Aug 2019

I'm sure his falsely claiming that is a hell of a lot more insulting to Swedes and Swedish-Americans - than Senator Warren's partially true claim to Native American ancestry, is to Native Americans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

qazplm135

(7,450 posts)
20. The only people who will continue to use this against Warren
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:39 PM
Aug 2019

are people who would have been looking for anything to use against her anyways.

She's more than done an appropriate penance, publicly. Won't stop Trump from trying, but I don't see how it will affect anyone who isn't already on the Trump Train.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

PatrickforO

(14,675 posts)
23. I can definitely empathize with Warren. When I was a kid, I was always
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:47 PM
Aug 2019

told that my great-great grandma Cassandra had some kind of native American ancestry - my great Aunt Sally, in particular, always said her parents always thought she was from some tribe, but she didn't know which.

Well, I did a DNA test just for personal interest, and found I have NO Native American blood whatsoever.

So there you have it. What we always thought isn't necessarily what always was.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

susanr516

(1,425 posts)
67. My story is almost the same
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 11:16 PM
Aug 2019

I was told one of my great-great-grandmothers was Apache. My DNA test came back with only .2% Native American, but I also had .2% Nigerian and 8.1% French/German ancestry. Given the fact that my ancestors quickly migrated to the south, I assumed that she was likely Cajun, rather than Apache. My husband was also told some of his ancestors were Comanche. (His ancestors also rapidly moved to the south.) His test showed 0% Native American ancestry. I think the vast majority of us (in the US, anyway) have heard stories about our ancestors which were, at the least, embellished.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

yellerpup

(12,256 posts)
25. I'm Cherokee living in the Cherokee Nation
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 01:59 PM
Aug 2019

and I have noticed through FB postings that the Cherokee registered as Democrats are very open to Elizabeth Warren and the ones who are R's are totally unforgiving. When you vote in tribal elections you vote as a Cherokee - making political parties are irrelevant. But you can discover through social media the ones who are R's because of their positions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(52,313 posts)
49. Holy crap, why would a Native American ever be a Republican?
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:57 PM
Aug 2019

But then again, I say that about everyone, really.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yellerpup

(12,256 posts)
57. I wonder about that myself.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:53 PM
Aug 2019

There are NO liberal news outlets in the state, the middle of the road newspapers were taken over by conservative forces during the past 40 years or so, and many are natives are colonialized Christian fundamentalists. That's my guess.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(26,425 posts)
63. Many Cherokees are traditionally conservatives
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 07:38 PM
Aug 2019

At least in NC.

Yeah, I don't get it, either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yellerpup

(12,256 posts)
79. True.
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 06:22 AM
Aug 2019

The Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma is very mixed-blood and unlike NC Cherokees there is no blood quantum requirement attached. If your family is listed on the Dawes Rolls you are accepted no matter if you don't meet the Bureau of Indian Affairs' blood quantum requirement.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
74. That makes sense. Thanks, yellerpup.
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 04:43 AM
Aug 2019

I also thought this 2013 article was interesting. She was just a product of her environment. Not just her neighbors, but her family.


https://www.salon.com/2013/05/21/slave_descendants_seek_equal_rights_from_cherokee_nation_partner/?fbclid=IwAR2_yR1JvSQv501w-Izqeonba-AWvJ5wWOX46XZWav2mHUH06ocGIz_Av8Y

During the year I spent reporting this story, nearly everyone I met in Oklahoma claimed Indian heritage. To many, the notion that Indian blood pumps through them, irrespective of quantum or degree, is a birthright. It suggests a dual identity. And it insinuates indigenous roots — a deeper, more authentic tie to land and country that predates statehood and union.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yellerpup

(12,256 posts)
80. Nearly everyone does claim tribal heritage in Oklahoma.
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 06:35 AM
Aug 2019

I did not see this article in Salon, but I was pleased to see that I know almost everyone mentioned in the article as we have worked on the same side toward the same end. Cornsilk is now posting pro-Warren since she unrolled her new initiative (of actually honoring the treaties between the Federal Govt. and the tribes) and I am encouraged. If you wrote the Salon article, wado (thank you), it is full of truth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,146 posts)
26. I don't believe she argued for tribal heritage, but rather, claimed only that according to family
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:09 PM
Aug 2019

narrative, she had some Native American ancestry, a claim later substantiated by DNA testing.

It is difficult to impossible to prove the tribal affiliation of one’s ancestors. The tribal registries were not complete, and intermarriage, as well as forced and circumstantial assimilation led to people leaving their tribes.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr.Bill

(24,450 posts)
60. My wife, who is mainly Irish is a serious studier of geneology
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 06:19 PM
Aug 2019

and has been for about 20 years. She can trace her ancestry and document it back to the Mayflower. She thought, through what was supposed to be an illegitimate birth in her family a few generations ago that she had Native American blood. She could document it through family letters, etc.

A DNA test showed she was wrong. No matter how much research one does, ancestry studies can be erroneous. Census records can be incorrect. So can family bible and church records. I can document through several sources, that my father was 87 when he died. He was 67. Before DNA, a lot of people were wrong about their ancestry. Donald Trump has stated in public that his father was born in Bavaria. He was not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
75. The DNA test doesn't really prove your wife was wrong, though,
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 04:51 AM
Aug 2019

for the same reason my siblings and I (and all siblings) have different mixtures of DNA -- even though we have the same ancestors.

My brother and mother and cousins all have a significant amount of Scandinavian DNA, but my sister and I don't have any. Based on the results of my brother and mother, I know that I probably do have some distant Scandinavian ancestors, but I didn't happen to inherit their DNA in the mix that I got. Just like I didn't get their blonde, straight hair.

With N.A. ancestry, it is especially difficult. For one thing, there aren't many indigenous samples in the database. Also, I've read that one of the most common alleles of Native Americans is also common in Western Europe. So when Ancestry sees those alleles, how does it decide which group to attribute them too?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EveHammond13

(2,855 posts)
38. She has nothing to apologize for
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:27 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marble falls

(59,521 posts)
40. I can relate to Elizebeth Warren. Growing up I was told I was part Cherokee ...
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:30 PM
Aug 2019

this little history had names, dates, locations. When I was in drafting school one of my fellow students was native American and I told him I had "Indian blood, too". He asked me which tribe and I told him "Cherokee" and he started laughing - "all you white people are part Cherokee!"

Many years later, decades, I had a genetic test done. Not a drop. Just a detailed story with names, dates and locations.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Toorich

(391 posts)
45. I was born in Oklahoma...
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 02:49 PM
Aug 2019

... forth generation. My mother's family claimed Choctaw blood somewhere in
that side of the family tree. My father's family claimed Cherokee blood and that our family
had been bilked of a 160 acre allotment in what was now downtown Tulsa.
My siblings and I researched tribal rolls, Dawes Commission lists, family tree
research. We found no tribal connections.
Then we did the DNA kit and the results said No Native American heritage.
Mrs.Warren and I are not the only ones in Oklahoma who have believed the
family lore.
If you Google " My grandmother was an Indian princess " you'll find volumes
dealing with this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(52,313 posts)
52. Unlike you, Warren's DNA test proved she did indeed have Native American ancestry.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 03:00 PM
Aug 2019

I don't know why people keep getting this fact wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
78. The difference is, Warren's DNA tested positive for Native American blood
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 05:58 AM
Aug 2019

In her case, the family lore was based on fact.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,826 posts)
61. To publicly claim Native American ancestry when all you have as proof is family legend
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 06:56 PM
Aug 2019

is a mistake and one I'm sure she wishes she could take back.
My family had the same story that my father's grandmother was Cherokee and she would have lived back in the late 1800s. But when I had a DNA test done it came back with a big zero for Native American ancestry. So I can see how it happened.

If Warren does get the nomination, one thing she must learn from this episode is to not get sucked into playing Trump's game because he is very good at it. Don't allow him to bait you into responding to his mocking insults and putting you on the defensive because it's a black hole that will only hurt you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(52,313 posts)
64. Her DNA test did NOT come back with a "big zero" like yours. It proved she was right.
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 07:46 PM
Aug 2019

It proved she had a Native American ancestor like she had said. What is wrong with proudly proclaiming you have Native American ancestry, especially when you have no reason to believe your parents are lying? Turns out her parents weren't lying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(109,173 posts)
76. But she didn't publicly claim it. When she was campaigning against Scott Brown,
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 05:01 AM
Aug 2019

someone went around looking for dirt on her, and the best they could come up with was a form that she filled out AFTER she was hired at Harvard, that claimed Native American ancestry.

It was only after Trump taunted her for months that she finally, mistakenly, thought she could prove otherwise with a blood test.

Ironically, the Cherokee Constitution itself was amended in 2007 to require a blood connection to be a Cherokee, so it would seem logical for her to have thought that the DNA test could be dispositive.


From the Smithsonian:

https://americanindian.si.edu/exhibitions/indivisible/cherokee_freedmen.html

Early in the 1800s, some Cherokees acquired slaves, and in the 1830s, enslaved African Americans accompanied the Cherokees when the federal government forced them to move to Indian Territory (Oklahoma), where the tribe struggled to rebuild its culture and institutions. By 1861, there were 4,000 black slaves living among the Cherokees.

After the Civil War, the tribe signed a treaty that granted former slaves, or freedmen, “all the rights of Native Cherokees.” But in 2007, Cherokees amended their tribal constitution, making “Indian blood” a requirement for citizenship. As a result, some 2,800 descendants of Cherokee freedmen were excluded from membership.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(148,695 posts)
71. I applaud Senator Warren for giving a real and heartfelt apology
Mon Aug 19, 2019, 11:46 PM
Aug 2019

Senator Warren is a classy person and I appreciate the fact that she gave a true and honest apology.

Again, I applaud Senator Warren for this apology

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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