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Fri Mar 15, 2019, 02:36 PM

 

O'Rourke calls America's capitalist economy 'racist'


By DAVID SIDERS 03/15/2019 01:25 PM EDT

MOUNT PLEASANT, Iowa — Beto O’Rourke said Friday that America’s capitalist economy is “racist,” while he praised a proposal to give infants so-called baby bonds to address systemic inequalities.

Responding to a question at a meet-and-greet in Iowa about whether he is a socialist, O’Rourke reiterated that “I consider myself a capitalist” and said capitalism is necessary to meet myriad “historic challenges” facing the country.

“It won’t be government intervention or policy alone that makes it possible,” he said.

However, O’Rourke added at a coffee shop here, “Having said that, it is clearly an imperfect, unfair, unjust and racist capitalist economy.”

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https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/15/beto-orourke-capitalist-economy-racist-1223475
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Reply O'Rourke calls America's capitalist economy 'racist' (Original post)
DonViejo Friday OP
DRoseDARs Friday #1
WeekiWater Friday #2
DRoseDARs Friday #6
WeekiWater Friday #7
DRoseDARs Friday #9
WeekiWater Friday #13
DRoseDARs Friday #15
WeekiWater Friday #16
DRoseDARs Friday #17
WeekiWater Friday #18
Mr Tibbs Saturday #27
radius777 Friday #19
Demsrule86 Friday #4
DRoseDARs Friday #5
WeekiWater Friday #8
DRoseDARs Friday #11
WeekiWater Friday #12
Garrett78 Friday #10
Celerity Friday #23
Mr Tibbs Saturday #28
Demsrule86 Friday #20
McCamy Taylor Saturday #32
DRoseDARs Saturday #34
TheRealNorth Friday #3
McCamy Taylor Saturday #33
TheRealNorth Monday #37
Autumn Friday #14
riverine Friday #21
TwilightZone Friday #22
Celerity Friday #24
McCamy Taylor Saturday #31
bullwinkle428 Friday #25
Mr Tibbs Saturday #29
riverine Saturday #35
MyNameGoesHere Sunday #36
AlexSFCA Friday #26
McCamy Taylor Saturday #30

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:00 PM

1. People come for AOC and Sanders for making similar arguments. I'm glad Beto ignores the detractors.

 

There has to be some kind of balance to be found between capitalism and socialism, and none of these fine candidates are advocating for purity of either system because they recognize the flaws in each.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:03 PM

2. Where have AOC or Sanders been "come after" for saying this?

 

“I consider myself a capitalist”

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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:48 PM

6. I mean, if you want to completely ignore the words I typed, fine I guess?

 

Just don't expect further discussion. Try again?
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:49 PM

7. I read them closely.

 

No further discussion necessary. Thanks for the reply.
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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:54 PM

9. Beto argued capitalsim is racist. You asked me where AOC or BS had people come for them...

 

...by quoting him saying he's a capitalist, showing that's where you were asking where people came after them for claiming that as well. It was super-weird.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:01 PM

13. Still completely different.

 

There isn’t a similar context with the arguments against Sanders “lift all boats” when compared to Beto’s comments.
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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:17 PM

15. But, that is the socialist position: Racism stems from economics rather than as a standalone issue.

 

Income and personal wealth disparities have created breeding grounds for views of superiority and inferiority since time-immemorial regardless of what groups are involved, that flatly isn't in question. Sanders has been raked over the coals for his seeming tone-deafness on racism. He isn't tone-deaf, he just hears a different tone because he subscribes to the socialist theory on racism rather than how you or I might view the matter academically.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:19 PM

16. That is not the "socialist position".

 

"Racism stems from economics rather than as a standalone issue."

It is Bernie Sanders position and is very limited in thought. It is not AOC's position. AOC is clearly closer to the socialist label than Sanders.

You are actually highlighting the difference I pointed out.
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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:29 PM

17. Well I was always taught it was and Google is mostly providing right-wing garbage so no help there.

 

I mean it was really fucking gross. Thanks Google.

We're going to have to disagree on this. I was always taught otherwise, and not in a hostile anti-socialism way. I did learn from Google that Rev. MLK Jr. had some strong words on capitalism though, so there's that at least.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:33 PM

18. So much of MLK discussing capitalism is brilliant.

 

A lot of my thoughts have been formed by him. Truly cutting and brilliantly expressed.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 07:38 AM

27. Racism only exists as part of economics?

 

That's patently absurd
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:50 PM

19. Beto didn't say that capitalism itself was racist,

 

just that our current implementation of it was, and requires reform.

There's a big difference between the liberal capitalism of the Dem party (as expressed well by Beto, Warren, Kamala and others) and the democratic socialism of the DSA (as expressed by AOC, Sanders, Gabbard, etc). This difference also extends to foreign policy, where Dems adhere to the internationalist Truman Doctrine, whereas DSA are more nationalist and isolationist.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:35 PM

4. Beto says he is a capitalist...could be wrong but aren't OAC and Sen. Sanders

 

socialists? There is a difference there. No one should use the word socialist.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:47 PM

5. Bernie ids as Democratic-Socialist not Socialist, and AOC ids as just Democrat I believe.

 

And everyone should use the word socialist, properly instead of being afraid of it or using it as a pejorative. Terms and identities get wibbly-wobbly when we don't know or care to know what they actually mean or represent, or allow others with chips on their shoulders to define them for us.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:51 PM

8. AOC ids as a democratic socialist.

 

She is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. She is actually much more coherent on the topic than Sanders.
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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:57 PM

11. Thought I rd a while bk she said she didn't id as such. Ok, either way doesn't make me dislike her.

 

I've been thoroughly enjoying her presence and ability to do her job.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:58 PM

12. Doesn't make me dislike her either.

 

She is clear in her presentation.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:55 PM

10. By praising the Nordic Model while calling oneself a Dem Soc, one conflates 2 comp. diff. things.

 

And then you've got those who think anything publicly funded (police, fire, schools, etc.) is an example of socialism.

The Democratic Socialists, meanwhile, say they may not endorse Sanders because he's "not a real Socialist."

It would seem those who subscribe to these terms are every bit as confused as the general public.
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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:22 PM

23. thank you for this

 

It drives me crazy to see people wrongly self-identify as 'socialists' (democratic or otherwise) when they clearly are not. Not Bernie, not AOC, etc etc, not one elected Democrat or Democratic caucus member advocates for the state ownership of the means of production and the dissolution of capitalism itself. Those two things are bedrock demands for true socialism in most of it's commonly understood forms.

NO idea why Bernie and the rest keep trying to re-define long settled, globally accepted, academically taught terms. It is so counter productive, and in a nation such as ours, which has tens of millions of reactionary and poorly educated RWers, opens up boilerplate social democratic (the Nordic Model is a perfect archetype) programmes and policies to moronic cries of 'Socialism!' and even (in true RWer delusional conflation) even 'Communism!.'

The DSA itself is a hot mess of many different micro-sectors of thought and ideologies, in constant conflict with each other. AOC especially (I absolutely adore her otherwise, and this association with them is her only true misstep IMHO) needs to withdraw from them altogether. She does not need them to succeed, and they hurt her cause far more than they help. The faux 'American-style' (for want of a better term) democratic socialist label that Bernie conjured up long ago is being weaponised by multiple sides to help defeat common sense (and literally completely commonplace in almost all of the rest of the advanced world as well) social democratic reforms that are so desperately needed here to re-balance our increasingly broken and dysfunctional system.
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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 07:40 AM

28. You seem confused

 

It's a mixed economy based on capitalism. Nothing confusing or evil about it.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 05:04 PM

20. If you have to explain a word than don't use it as you have already lost. No one should

 

call themselves anything close to socialist.
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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:36 PM

32. I am hoping that "American capitalism promotes racism for its own economic best interests"

 

will become a firm part of the mainstream Democratic primary this year, just like health care for all and just say no to climate change.

Here is why. Lots of white folks feel guilty when the discussion turns to racism. They know that they have benefited economically because of our racist system but they do not feel that they are personally to blame. So they are conflicted.

Lots of minority folks feel anger towards everyone who benefits, even indirectly, by institutionalized racism. And it is easier to express that rage towards a fellow underpaid worker than towards the boss.

If the discussion becomes "wealthy capitalists create institutionalized -isms to keep all wages low" then the 99% of white folks who are not members of the 1% can say confidently "I will no longer be a dupe! I am going to support my fellow workers and join a union and stand firm against the 1%." And the 99% of minority members who are not members of the 1% can say proudly "Let's join together, my brothers and sisters and take down the Man." And suddenly, identity politics becomes a truly democratic process.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #32)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 07:51 PM

34. The bickering DU engages in over these candidates is mad/sad-dening, this gets lost in the noise.

 

You and I support different candidates this round (Harris has me initially and Bernie won't unless he's the candidate going into the general which, let's be honest, he won't be) just as we likely did in 2016 (I voted Bernie in the NV caucus), but your comment is a prime example of what we *should* be talking about. Each of our candidates approach subjects in different ways, some more eloquent with their words and manner than others, but they *all* want the situation better for *everyone* not just the privileged few white men. That's the Republican position, not anyone's on our side of the divide. Instead of asking if someone enough of this or did someone say too much of that, we need to ask what ideas they have to address the issues that matter. Racism and economic disparity running so rampantly it makes the Gilded Age blush. Comments like yours give context as to why these issues are important. Whether one believes that one begets the other or not, there are serious problems and we recognize them. Asking our candidates what they think we should do to address them is the correct debate to be having.

It amuses me that barely 20 years after the fall of Soviet communism (conflated with socialism), US capitalism (conflated with freedom and equality... I'm being cheeky but you know it's true ) is starting to cough and weeze as more and more people are questioning it right here at home. Millennials like myself (some old enough to be in government ie AOC), the Aughts that have started hitting voting age (and likely too the following generation whose starting year will probably be in the early 2020s) all find socialism in different shades as agreeable rather than OMG-I-SHIT-MY-PANTS-I'M-SO-SCARED. Communism is an alien concept like Sanskrit or turn-dial telephones, but socialism everyone lives with and benefits from every day. We've listened to older generations lose their damn minds over the word and we're like... lolwut? Moreover, the younger generations have been born into and further molded a culture that sees less and less color... except red. Red hot anger over bigoted hatred against all groups (Well, not Nazis... punch them right in the fucking face) and grotesque economic disparity. The old White Male power structure is in for a rough ride as the younger generations of woke white kids, oppressed minorities that have been waiting (and sadly dying) for change with the patience and stoicism of saints (I've said it before, it never cease to amaze me that we here in the US have never experienced the levels of sectarian violence other nations have had) and their forebears in the older generations all come for the Republicans saying, "Here's your coat, there's the door..."

AOC might even be nice and pour them one last drink before closing time and ask if she needs to call them a cab.
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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:22 PM

3. I just don't see this idea flying in blue-collar America

 

I would have to read how this idea actually works, but it could very easily be twisted by RWNJ's as "Free money for having babies".

Questions:
Would it only be open to minorities?
Would the parents have access to the money?

I would hope people see the potential problems. This would feed into every RW'rs perception of welfare on steroids.

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Undecided

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Response to TheRealNorth (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:44 PM

33. Naw, because bonds take money from the future, not the present.

 

Bonds are not robbing one poor working stiff to pay another.
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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #33)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:43 PM

37. That's hardly reasssuring

 

Bonds eventually have to be paid off, and not many are going to be moved by the claim "You don't have to pay for it today."
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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:06 PM

14. Glad he agrees with a lot of us who think that America's capitalist economy is

 

"clearly an imperfect, unfair, unjust and racist capitalist economy.” That's why I don't consider myself a capitalist. Here's my question. Does Beto want to change it or continue with our unfair, unjust and racist capitalist economy system ?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 07:39 PM

21. Capitalism is no more racist than gravity is. In fact it is racist to say certain races can't be

 

successful capitalists.

I was going to change my support to Beto but this makes me hesitate.

Still Amy K or Biden.
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Response to riverine (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 08:11 PM

22. He was specifically referring to the American implementation of capitalism.

 

I'd have to agree with the assertion. A chunk of the country and its economy were literally built on racism. Another chunk was stolen from the native population under the guise of economic expansion and resource exploitation.

Closer to the present, a good deal of the "economic anxiety" Trump supporters claim is a basis for their support is in reality a fear of "others" encroaching on their stuff, including jobs and other financial concerns.

We've made progress, certainly, but systemic and inherent racism still reside in the system. The private prison industry, for example, seems to be built largely on the racial inequality in the justice system.
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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:25 PM

24. +1

 

Also, not just the implementation, but indeed, the very outcomes all too often.
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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:34 PM

31. Engels said that US Capitalist pit one group against another to keep wages low.

 

He was referring to immigrant groups. It is as true now as it was in the 19th century. It is on of the reason why capitalists were able to amass such fortunes in this country.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to riverine (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:11 PM

25. I'm sorry, but that statement is analogous to the old, "guns don't kill people; people kill people".

 

The economic system known as SLAVERY was completely driven by capitalism! Capitalism determined that the most efficient method for putting money into the pockets of the owners of the means of production was the ownership of a class of human beings.
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Response to riverine (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 07:42 AM

29. American slavery was in service to Capitalism

 

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Response to Mr Tibbs (Reply #29)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:42 PM

35. American slavery was a product of the US government and original Constitution

 

both which sanctioned it.

Capitalism is not to be blamed for slavery - WE THE PEOPLE were to blame for that atrocity.
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Response to riverine (Reply #35)

Sun Mar 17, 2019, 07:12 AM

36. Yes because

 

The poor, women, and blacks should have voted out their.. Oh wait.
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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:18 PM

26. Capitalism is the best economic system known to humanity

 

but it has to be reasonably regulated and healthcare must not be capitalized on. Democratic Party is the party of capitalism, GOP is the party of trump.
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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:32 PM

30. OMG! He went there! It is so true! Capital divides and conquers the working class to keep wages low.

 

Beto, I am in love with you all over again! (Even though Politico's intent is probably to turn Trump's "white victimhood" supporters against the Texas white guy that they might otherwise not dislike at first sight.)


(While the source material meant this to be kneecapping) the thread here on DU is actually positive.

( )
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