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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:14 PM

 

Biden Knows How to Make the Moral Case Against Trump By Andrew Sullivan

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A really unexpected thing happened to me this week. I felt a slight but measurable twinge of hope. For the first time, I heard a speech that, while measured and well-balanced, homed in relentlessly and with passion and authority on the core moral unfitness of Donald Trump to be president of the United States. Joe Biden痴 Iowa address last Wednesday finally did what needs to be done: Leaving questions of policy aside for a moment, it framed next year痴 presidential and congressional campaigns as a battle for the soul of America.

Trump痴 inability to grasp this country as an idea ultimately beyond race and territory and religion, his despicable moral character and incendiary rhetoric, and his constant threats to Constitutional order and civil peace render him unfit for the office he holds. That痴 Biden痴 central message and the core, urgent issue of our time because it relates to all the others: the costs and insecurity of health care, the intensifying climate crisis, the crumbling of liberal democracy in the West, the corruption of the American right, the rise of white supremacist terror, and the pressures of absorbing the biggest wave of immigration in a century, and, in absolute numbers, the biggest wave in American history. With Trump reelected, all of this gets fathomlessly worse. With him gone, there痴 a chance to recover. But while he痴 there, the danger never ends.


The speech should reassure people as it reassured me that the Democratic primary base is not wrong or cowardly or sexist for consistently putting Biden at the top of their preferences. These rank-and-file voters want to defeat Trump and think they致e found the best candidate for the job available. And if Biden can sustain both his focus and the powerful argument he laid out this week, he may well prove them right.

This is not to say that Biden isn稚 showing some signs of aging. He was composed, but he does appear a little frail; there were times his speech seemed a little slurred, and he had several minor slipups. This is not to fault him: At 76, he has enviable sharpness and physical fitness. But at 76, there are limits. And somehow, at 73, Trump痴 psychological sickness gives him an edge: a gob-smacking drive to keep going and going and going, with no signs of flagging at all, and many signs of mania. Who in their 70s is crazy enough to keep up? Even as he claimed he was seeking healing and unity this week, Trump was still tweeting insults, filming a shameless campaign video, and comparing crowd sizes with Beto O坦ourke痴. The sheer sociopathic narcissism in the face of such grief and trauma beggars belief. But it sure makes Trump seem younger than he is.

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I don稚 endorse some conservative twists surfacing in this otherwise strong essay, but it nails what was essential in Biden痴 stand against Trump.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/andrew-sullivan-biden-can-make-the-moral-case-against-trump.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Biden Knows How to Make the Moral Case Against Trump By Andrew Sullivan (Original post)
emmaverybo Aug 2019 OP
msongs Aug 2019 #1
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #4
peggysue2 Sep 2019 #28
Cha Aug 2019 #2
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #7
Cha Aug 2019 #11
Recursion Aug 2019 #12
Hekate Aug 2019 #19
EveHammond13 Aug 2019 #3
world wide wally Aug 2019 #5
Cha Aug 2019 #8
peggysue2 Sep 2019 #29
ucrdem Aug 2019 #6
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #9
comradebillyboy Aug 2019 #10
Auggie Aug 2019 #13
Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #14
Cha Aug 2019 #22
Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2019 #31
Vegas Roller Aug 2019 #15
intheflow Aug 2019 #16
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #17
aidbo Aug 2019 #18
Hekate Aug 2019 #20
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #21
Gothmog Aug 2019 #23
aikoaiko Aug 2019 #24
Princetonian Aug 2019 #26
Princetonian Aug 2019 #25
Gothmog Sep 2019 #27
Tarheel_Dem Sep 2019 #30
onetexan Sep 2019 #32

Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:24 PM

1. everyone knows who trump is. huge chunks do not care and never will. it has to be about more

 

than trump and his friends are a waste of oxygen
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:47 PM

4. I think Sullivan shows how crucial Biden's grounds for attacking Trump are to

 

2020, among other issues, and why and how the country needs such a persistent rebuke:

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But avoiding the lardaceous orange elephant in the room seems like a defensive dodge to me. It gives the impression of weakness. It cedes too much to Trump and normalizes him. It is not the relentless, epiphanous stare-down of Trump that a successful 2020 opponent needs to muster, and that so much of the country is yearning for. And it misses what is in fact the central issue in 2020: the unique danger this bitter bigot poses to this country痴 liberal democracy and civil peace.

Next year will not be a midterm election, after all. It will be a referendum on Trump as it has to be, and as Trump will insist it be. And so the central task of the Democratic candidate will be not just to explain how dangerous Trump痴 rhetoric and behavior is, but how un-American it is, and how a second term could leave behind an unutterably altered America. One term and the stain, however dark, might fade in time. Two terms and it marks us forever. (bolding mine)

To read the whole essay: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/andrew-sullivan-biden-can-make-the-moral-case-against-trump.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 16, 2019, 06:35 PM

28. The 2020 election will ultimately be a referendum on Trump and Trumpism

 

Both of which need to be renounced and fully repudiated. Nothing else is as important as defeating Trump and his budding fascism because if we fail we can kiss the whole damn country goodbye.

The election is that critical. Everyone's well-being and everyone's future rides on kicking Trump and his criminal enterprise out of the White House, to the curb and (if God is just and our will is firm) directly into a jail cell.

Nothing else matters until the man and his enablers are finished, kaput!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:32 PM

2. This is well said by Sullivan.. not a fan but

 

I don't reject anyone who doesn't like trump and has something worthwhile to say.

Trump痴 inability to grasp this country as an idea ultimately beyond race and territory and religion, his despicable moral character and incendiary rhetoric, and his constant threats to Constitutional order and civil peace render him unfit for the office he holds. That痴 Biden痴 central message and the core, urgent issue of our time because it relates to all the others: the costs and insecurity of health care, the intensifying climate crisis, the crumbling of liberal democracy in the West, the corruption of the American right, the rise of white supremacist terror, and the pressures of absorbing the biggest wave of immigration in a century, and, in absolute numbers, the biggest wave in American history. With Trump reelected, all of this gets fathomlessly worse. With him gone, there痴 a chance to recover. But while he痴 there, the danger never ends.

Mahalo, emmaverybo
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:24 AM

7. Mahalo, Cha for citing one of the best parts. I usually avoid Sullivan. But then he has been a long

 

time champion of same-sex marriage, so some saving grace. You keep that flame burning, Cha, you really do.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 02:49 AM

11. Andrew Sullivan described

 

Biden's "core message" brilliantly. You just never know who is going to come up with something so spectacularly relevant.

Leaving questions of policy aside for a moment, it framed next year痴 presidential and congressional campaigns as a battle for the soul of America.

That's exactly what it is.. so many people are feeling it and that's where Biden launched his campaign. Fighting for the Soul of America. Nothing less.

You keep the Flame burning, too, emmaverybo. I love all our Biden Supporters and allies!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 04:29 AM

12. What's this "biggest wave of immigration" he's talking about?

 

It's down from even 10 years ago.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Cha (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 08:14 PM

19. This, for sure

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:38 PM

3. THIS! And if you follow Lakoff (like I do!) you know this is the key

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:03 AM

5. Wait until Joe invites Trump to go jogging with him

 

I hope he does it during a debate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to world wide wally (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:30 AM

8. LOL! Yeah, I don't think

 

trump seems ".. younger than he is.." he seems like a big ol gas bag ready to explode

Thanks, WWW!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to world wide wally (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 16, 2019, 06:39 PM

29. Hahahaha!

 

That would be one way to end Trump's tenure. Get him to jog a half block.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:10 AM

6. "The sheer sociopathic narcissism in the face of such grief and trauma beggars belief."

 

Nicely put. And every time I see Trump I wonder what kind of "vitamin" injections they're pumping into his veins.


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:35 AM

9. Sullivan has a way with words. That line jumped out at me too. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:43 AM

10. Did Andrew Sullivan accidentally stumble on to a true fact?

 

Sullivan is a deplorable in his own right, but in this case he is correct.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 08:16 AM

13. I think a morals case is a very wrong way to head ...

 

it's too obtuse and subjective an issue. Many will defend their morals, however replusive others might find them. You give people reason to circle the wagons rather than welcoming them to join.

Talk about improving people's lives by creating new and better jobs. Offer concrete solutions, not hyperbole. Won't work with all Trump supporters, But maybe just enough.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 11:05 AM

14. Horrible person said what?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 02:57 AM

22. Andrew Sullivan said it brilliantly.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 16, 2019, 07:04 PM

31. Another embarrassed republican.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 11:32 AM

15. K&R nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 06:31 PM

16. There are many moral cases to be made against Trump,

 

and many that have already been made. Casting Biden - or any Democrat - as a moral authority on anything is problematic for two reasons. First, morality is a religious concept using religious language. (The secular term is ethics/ethical.) Biden is not a religious authority, and liberals in general aren't religious and/or keep their faith private. Thus, many conservatives would view such framing by Biden as hypocritical. But secondly, it's not going to swing any Trump supporter to vote blue, as they are a living in a morality-free zone. They have no morals themselves, and yet they can hide behind their Christian "faith" and American culture just accedes their religious authority.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to intheflow (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 06:39 PM

17. I don't think the intention of Sullivan's essay was to cast Biden in the role of moral authority for

 

the party, certainly not for the nation. I don稚 know that you have read the entire essay and I don稚 think your response actually addresses its premise at all specifically much as you make points relevant to your thesis.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 07:13 PM

18. Oh good, we can prosecute him in 'moral court'.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 08:18 PM

20. Excellent OP. It's a pity so many miss the point. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hekate (Reply #20)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 10:16 PM

21. It is. You have a different preferred candidate, but know his was not a campaign speech and

 

does nothing to take away from any of our fine candidates or to designate himself as a moral
authority. As you see, that wasn稚 Sullivan痴 take-away.

We don稚 need anyone as a 杜oral authority, like some kind of church leading America.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 04:52 PM

23. Joe Biden reminded all of us of what a presidential president would sound like

 




In a fiery and blunt speech slamming the tenor, tone and words of President Trump as the nation reels from white nationalist domestic terrorism, former vice president Joe Biden reminded all of us of what a presidential president sounds like. His words were stirring. His delivery was passionate. And they were befitting a man who kicked off his campaign with a video decrying Trump痴 shameful response to Charlottesville....

Sure, some of that authority has to do with Biden having served side-by-side with the still-popular former president Barack Obama. His voice providing comfort for those of us who long for the days when a grown-up was president of the United States, acted accordingly and wielded the bully pulpit of the Oval Office with moral authority. Instead, in Trump, we have a bully with a pulpit and no moral compass.

泥ays before the mid-terms, Biden said of Trump, 塗e fomented fears of a caravan heading to the United States, creating hysteria. saying 鼠ook at what is marching up, that is an invasionAn invasion. The Democratic front-runner continued through a litany of examples of Trump hurling red meat to his supporters. 鄭t a rally in Florida, when he asked a crowd, 践ow do we stop these people?, meaning immigrants, and someone yelled back, 全hoot them. He smiled, Biden recounted. And then Biden drew a straight line from Trump痴 embrace of white supremacy to the hate-inspired violence we致e endured.....

Biden wasn稚 blind to the shortcomings of our nation and the men who formed it. He talked about them. But he demonstrated that the vision of America was perpetuated by Democratic and Republican presidents alike throughout its history. Ending his speech, Biden slipped off his prepared remarks in an emphatic way. 典his is the United States of America! Period! May God protect our troops, Biden said pounding the podium, ending a speech that everyone knows he believes in his bones.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 04:57 PM

24. Everyone knows he is immoral. His voters don't care.

 


I'm not sure this is the path to victory in 2020. It would be great if it were, but morality certainly wasn't in 2016.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 07:08 PM

26. Joe's appeal to independents is what will win this election.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 07:06 PM

25. Great read. Thank you!

 

As I recall, Andrew Sullivan is a practicing Catholic who had a rude epiphany during the Bush years and became an Obama supporter. He is an excellent writer who understands that Joe's appeal is his core decency:

Biden made this moral case. And he did it with feeling, and a wounded sense of patriotism. He invoked previous presidents, including Republicans, who knew how insidiously evil white supremacy is and wouldn稚 give any quarter to it. He reminded us that in politics, words are acts, and they have consequences when uttered by a national leader: 典he words of a president can move markets. They can send our brave men and women to war. They can bring peace. They can calm a nation in turmoil. They can console and confront and comfort in times of tragedy They can appeal to the better angels of our nature. But they can also unleash the deepest, darkest forces in this nation. And this, Biden argues, is what Trump has done: tap that dark psychic force, in an act of malignant and nihilist narcissism.

Yes, Biden powerfully argued that Trump was an enabler of 努hite supremacy in the sense understood by most people, and not the absurdly broad, new left definition that counts as a white supremacist nearly everyone not actively virtue-signaling on left Twitter. But he went further and explained why America, at its best, is an inversion of that twisted racial identitarianism: 展hat this president doesn稚 understand is that unlike every other nation on earth, we池e unable to define what constitutes 羨merican by religion, by ethnicity, or by tribe; you can稚 do it. America is an idea. An idea stronger than any army, bigger than any ocean, more powerful than any dictator or tyrant. It gives hope to the most desperate people on earth. Hope, one might add, that has been deeply qualified by this president痴 outspoken fondness for dictators like Kim Jong-un.

And although some of this might once have seemed like pabulum, in the Trump era, it comes off as fresh. There was even a nice line designed to get under Trump痴 skin, ridiculing the listless condemnation of white supremacy Trump recited in the wake of the El Paso massacre: that 斗ow-energy, vacant-eyed mouthing of the words written for him condemning white supremacists this week. That痴 a poignantly wrought description of that sighing, sniffing, singsongy voice that Trump uses when he痴 saying something his heart isn稚 into.

And more importantly, Biden was able to express all this with authority. The speech was a defense of American decency against an indecent commander-in-chief and it echoed loudly because Biden is, so evidently, a decent human. I致e never been a huge fan of the logorrheic, egotistical grandstanding Biden sometimes engages in; I don稚 agree with him on some issues; his treatment of Anita Hill was disgracefully off-key. But I have never doubted Biden痴 core decency. Maybe I have a soft spot for a well-meaning Irish-uncle type. But for 25 minutes or so this week, I felt as if I were living in America again, the America I love and chose to live in, a deeply flawed America, to be sure, marked forever by slavery痴 stain, and racism痴 endurance, but an America that, at its heart, is a decent country, full of decent people... decency is the heart of his candidacy. And voting for Joe Biden feels like voting for some things we致e lost and have one last chance to regain. Normalcy, generosity, civility, experience and a reminder that, in this current darkness, Trump does not define America. 摘veryone knows who Donald Trump is, Biden concluded. 展e need to show them who we are. We choose hope over fear. Science over fiction. Unity over division. And, yes truth over lies.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/andrew-sullivan-biden-can-make-the-moral-case-against-trump.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2019, 06:22 PM

27. Joe Biden's childhood struggle with a stutter: How he overcame it and how it shaped him

 

Joe is very well equipped to take on trump the bully



Valerie Biden Owens, the former vice president痴 younger sister, says that one lasting impact of his childhood stutter is that it has given him more empathy and compassion for others trials, and it uniquely equips him to handle Trump痴 taunts.

典rump is a bully, and Joe has been standing up to bullies his entire life, Owens said in an interview. 笛oe痴 stuttering, I think, is one of the principal reasons a major, major, major reason that he is the good and compassionate and kind man that he is.

About 3 million Americans suffer from the speech impediment of stuttering, marked by involuntary repetition of sounds, syllables or words. According to the National Institute on Deafness and other Communication Disorders, most children outgrow their stutter, but for 25% of them, stuttering is a lifelong challenge.

Biden has overcome the serious stutter of his youth, but remnants of it resurface on occasions such as when he is very tired, he said in a 2016 speech. Experts on stuttering who follow him closely say they have noticed it on several occasions during the campaign, such as an interview on 典he View when he addressed complaints about his tendency to touch and hug women while campaigning, and an April speech in Pittsburgh launching his campaign, when he struggled with words.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2019, 07:03 PM

30. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2019, 07:18 PM

32. Hopefully around this time next year the real moral majority will kick the Idiot out of the WH with

 

Their votes. The only way to do this is to vote Blue straight up & down the ballot.
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