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Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:11 PM

 

Bernie Sanders in the 1970s urged nationalization of most major industries

(CNN) — Bernie Sanders advocated for the nationalization of most major industries, including energy companies, factories, and banks, when he was a leading member of a self-described "radical political party" in the 1970s, a CNN KFile review of his record reveals.

Sanders' past views shed light on a formative period of his political career that could become relevant as he advances in the 2020 Democratic primary.

Many of the positions he held at the time are more extreme compared to the more tempered democratic socialism the Vermont senator espouses today and could provide fodder for moderate Democrats and Republicans looking to cast the Democratic presidential candidate and his beliefs as a fringe form of socialism that would be harmful to the country.

Aspects of Sanders' plans and time in the Liberty Union have been reported before, but the material taken together, including hundreds of newly digitalized newspapers and files from the Liberty Union Party archived at the University of Vermont, paint a fuller portrait of Sanders' views on state and public-controlled industry at the time.


https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/kfile-bernie-nationalization/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fpoliticalwire.com%2F2019%2F03%2F14%2Fsanders-once-called-for-nationalizing-industry%2F


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Reply Bernie Sanders in the 1970s urged nationalization of most major industries (Original post)
RandySF Thursday OP
OhZone Thursday #1
Farmer-Rick Thursday #2
Adrahil Thursday #6
forklift Friday #12
Power 2 the People Friday #36
brooklynite Thursday #3
forklift Friday #13
brooklynite Friday #15
forklift Friday #24
crazytown Thursday #4
OhZone Thursday #5
Farmer-Rick Friday #9
crazytown Friday #20
Farmer-Rick Friday #21
crazytown Friday #23
Farmer-Rick Friday #28
CrossingTheRubicon Friday #31
Farmer-Rick Friday #33
Farmer-Rick Friday #7
DemocratSinceBirth Friday #8
Farmer-Rick Friday #10
DemocratSinceBirth Friday #11
Farmer-Rick Friday #35
DemocratSinceBirth Friday #39
Vogon_Glory Friday #30
forklift Friday #14
BlueWI Friday #16
DemocratSinceBirth Friday #17
BlueWI Friday #22
forklift Friday #25
BlueWI Friday #26
Farmer-Rick Friday #38
Tom Rinaldo Friday #18
Hassin Bin Sober Friday #27
TCJ70 Friday #19
CrossingTheRubicon Friday #32
TCJ70 Friday #34
MH1 Friday #42
TCJ70 Friday #43
gopiscrap Friday #29
Devil Child Friday #37
DemocratSinceBirth Friday #40
Devil Child Friday #41
David__77 Saturday #44
Gothmog Monday #45

Response to RandySF (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:17 PM

1. Getting vetted -

 

Oh well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:26 PM

2. Good for him.

 

So he started out even further left. Good to know. I started out further right and moved even further left than he is now.

If we nationalize those industries by allowing only the workers who work there to make all the decisions ...even picking the CEOs and their salaries...then we are NOT likely to repeat the Soviet Union and China's mistakes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:44 PM

6. I don't view that as a positive model, personally.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:54 AM

12. aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha

 

That would be like asking hospital orderlies who the neurosurgeon should be.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:49 PM

36. +1000

 

We should have listened to him then. It would have saved us from de-industrialization,de-unionization and the banking collapse of 2008.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:30 PM

3. There's a word that defines that, but I can't put my finger on it...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
John Hickenlooper

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:55 AM

13. Does it start with a C?

 

I love riddles
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to forklift (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:00 AM

15. Today's episode is brought to you by the letters "C" and "S" and by the number 2020...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
John Hickenlooper

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:06 AM

24. Not 1917?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:38 PM

4. Seize Vermont's electricity companies without compensation

 

Now that’s socialism!

In 1976, Sanders went even further: calling for the state to seize ownership of Vermont's private electric companies without compensation to investors.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 04:41 PM

5. You wonder -

 

how much of this was known to the GOP in 2016, and they were chomping at the bit to use it, if Sanders had won the Dem nom.

Oh well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to OhZone (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:42 AM

9. Like no one knew Sanders had socialist ideas?

 

All I can say is yeah, so what, he had more liberal ideas before. Not a surprise...what did you expect?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:35 AM

20. Without compensation?

 

Nope.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:41 AM

21. So, if a corrupted and incompetent corporation runs a local monopoly into the ground.

 

A monopoly that was built by tax dollars and bought by corporate interests for pennies of its true worth. And then the people decide to take it back, they should pay those incompetent buffoons? Sounds like just desserts to me. Let them take it to court.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:03 AM

23. Wow

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:14 AM

28. Well, he wasn't advocating nationalization because the utility corporations were doing great.

 

I'd be really happy with capitalism too if we didn't have Trump, and Putin, and the Koch brothers and Fox, and the crash, and global warming, and extinction, and starvation, and......
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:31 PM

31. Socialism isn't "more liberal" than Liberalism.

 

You have it backward.

Seizing the means of production without compensation isn't a "liberal" ideological position.

It is a very anti-liberal stance that is not in keeping with the values of the liberal Democratic Party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CrossingTheRubicon (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:43 PM

33. Says who?

 

Who says seizing the means of production by We The People isn't liberal? Maybe if a fascist government did it it would be right wing, neocon, Trumpy Dumpy. But we are talking about a democracy taking back control of their electrical services for the good of all their customers.

Besides, they had their chance to be compensated and they decided to do the worse possible job of managing a monopoly that they could. Too bad, so sad, take it to the courts.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:38 AM

7. Why not?

 

In the US about 90% of our electrictity infrastructure was built by tax dollars. Selling off that infrastructure for pennies on the dollar to corporate interests didn't really start for earnest until 1996. In fact 20% of the electricty provided to citizens today is still provided by government entities.

So, taking back a poorly managed electric company is not unheard of. And not compensating a bunch of rich investors who ran their regional monopoly into the ground or should have known it was being mismanaged is called just desserts. They can take it to court if they think their incompetence should be rewarded.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:41 AM

8. I am not opposed to looking at nationalizing utilities that are natural monopolies.

 

But damned if I want to buy a car , tv set, computer, or appliance at the government store.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:46 AM

10. I agree with you

 

Natural monopolies should be run by governments or groups of people who will use them.

My shoes should be made by healthy, well fed people who get to decide all their working conditions and get a share of the profits from selling me shoes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:49 AM

11. When I lived in Tallahassee the cable company was publicly owned,

 

Last edited Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:45 PM

35. Yes!!!

 

Taking back our country one corporate entity at a time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:10 PM

39. I am a firm believer in markets except where natural monopolies exist.

 

I am a firm believer in markets except where natural monopolizes exist. It's like a gift to private corporations. It would be like petitioning the government to be the only gas station in a one hundred mile radius.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 12:41 PM

30. I'm not either, especially after what happened to Enron and ONCOR/Energy Futureds

 

While I might agree with old-school Republicans (A species hunted to extinction by Far-Right RINO hunters) that private companies tend to operators efficiently than government-owned entities, we have seen what disasters happen when unregulated debt leveraged-buyout capitalism can do to the consumer.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 09:57 AM

14. Socialism

 

would be a mild way to express it
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to forklift (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:09 AM

16. What are the merits of these ideas?

 

A conversation about comparative economic strategy is overdue.

Do we prefer monopoly capitalism and merger mania over public ownership of key industries? What's the case for both?

I appreciate that the Sanders and Warren campaigns have put these issues on the map.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Jay Inslee

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Response to BlueWI (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:12 AM

17. What key industries has Elizabeth Warren advocated nationalizing?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:42 AM

22. I'm referring to regulation here.

 

Warren advocates for more focus on the public interest among publicly traded companies and among monetary/lending practices (Accountable Capitalism Act/CFPB leadership).

My point is that her strong advocacy for regulation opens up a space for conversation about comparative economic strategy and systems. Democrats and Republicans have been running scared from those conversations for decades, at least since the early 1980s. Both Sanders and Warren have brought those conversations into public focus, which gives us a better chance for fairer economic policy.

I don't think she's specifically advocated for nationalizing industries, which a few Democrats might have done after the too big to fail fiascos of the 2007-8 cycle. As an independent, I think Sanders advocated for nationalizing or breaking up larger banks and public action to guarantee mortgages. Unfortunately in my opinion, most politicians and the FED preferred to recapitalize the banks at a .75 percent prime lending rate than hold them fully accountable for poor investment strategy and criminal ripoffs of consumers in the housing markets, leaving the banking system vulnerable to this day.

BTW, Sanders' issue positions in the 1970s are about as instructive as Biden's views of busing in the 1970s. It's an indication of intellectual starting points. Nothing wrong with advocating strong economic change in the 1970s such as nationalizing industries - if we had done some aspects of that, we might not be facing the high level of concentrated global ownership that we're facing today.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Jay Inslee

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Response to BlueWI (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:07 AM

25. Regulation is not stealing from stockholders nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to forklift (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:12 AM

26. True.

 

And having a discussion about comparative economic systems is better than ignoring the cataclysmic social, environmental, and political costs of monopoly capitalism. Sanders and Warren get kudos for opening up that discussion.

BTW, not all stockholders in publicly owned companies benefit from capital provided at at .75 percent lending rate from the FED. Privatizing profit but socializing risk - something to avoid, IMO.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Jay Inslee

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Response to forklift (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:57 PM

38. Yeah, but Not enforcing anti-trust laws kind of is

 

What about all those stockholders in companies who would compete for customers except for the fact that that electric company has a monopoly bought for cheap from the government? I mean you are reducing competition by allowing a monopoly to be run by this corporation. Other corporations can't compete with that. What happened to that imaginary free market capitalist like to talk about?

If that monopolistic electric company then turns around and uses all those profits to buy up other corporations, what about all those stockholders who didn't get that chance to buy up those other corporations because they didn't have as much money because they weren't a monopoly? So how many stockholders do you want to hurt?


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:24 AM

18. And Ronald Reagan was a Democrat. And Elizabeth Warren was a Republican

 

I don't consider this "vetting". It would be vetting if there was a previously unknown recording of Sanders expressing those views now. What about all of the positions that we are glad so many of our Democratic leaders acknowledge having "evolved" on themselves, on drug possession crimes, on LGBTQ issues and the like? Is it "vetting" to point out openly acknowledged position shifts over the course of decades?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:14 AM

27. It's "vetting" when you go back 50 years for Bernie.

 

It’s a divisive attack if you point out during the same time frame Joe Biden said Roe v. Wade “went too far” and that he didn’t think “that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 10:28 AM

19. The 70s...before I was born.

 

Who cares? Where’s he at now? I don’t see him advocating for this in the present?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:33 PM

32. He endorses "Democratic Socialism" every day on the trail.

 

From the Wikipedia article on Democratic Socialism:

As socialists, democratic socialists believe that the systemic issues of capitalism can only be solved by replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system—i.e. by replacing private ownership with social ownership of the means of production.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CrossingTheRubicon (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:44 PM

34. I don't trust any definitions of socialism anymore and judge it on a case by case basis...

 

...since it seems to mean anything and everything. I hope someone asks Sanders about it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 06:01 PM

42. Do you think it might be used in campaign ads by the GOP?

 

Um, duh.

The question is, can it be used effectively.

If the answer is yes, then we should all care.

I'm not sure, but leaning toward answer = yes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MH1 (Reply #42)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 06:54 PM

43. They won't have to reach back 50 years to...

 

...try and scare people with *gasp* socialism! They’re going to do that regardless. So this is stupid.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 11:28 AM

29. Good I agree with him

 

the only goal of business is to squeeze as much money out of the consumer for as little cost as possible. Business is intrinsically immoral.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 01:57 PM

37. I support nationalization of major industries

 

Even more so when such industries engage in unrestricted exploitation of finite resources. This type of "vetting" reinforces my support for Sen. Sanders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Tulsi Gabbard

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 04:31 PM

40. How about supermarkets?

 

There's Ralphs, Trader Joes, 99 Cents, Seafood Market, Whole Foods, Sprouts, Target, Wal Mart, Vons, Jons, Gelsons, Pavilllions and Smart and Final near my apartment.

Maybe it would be convenient if there was one government store.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 05:14 PM

41. For supermarkets...

 

...I'm more in agreement with your thoughts expressed in https://www.democraticunderground.com/128722844#post8

But who knows if we are stuck in a future where the only choice for food is Amazon prime or Walmart, my first preference would be some sincere and fierce monopoly busting.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Tulsi Gabbard

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 10:28 AM

44. Doesn't concern me.

 

I can understand advocating public ownership in different economic sectors.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 07:48 PM

45. trump will have fun with issue

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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