After ONE debate, we shouldn't be ignoring all but 4 candidates...

[ElementaryPenguin]

Who initially lead largely because of name recognition, or because they entered earlier.

We're about a year and a half away from the election - and at this same point neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama were the frontrunners.

We have two dozen that would be 100 million times better than Donald Trump.

We should be trying to get to know all of them better - not just make an initial, media bolstered, snap judgement.

[dalton99a]

1. Why the Democratic Debates Are Starting to Feel Like a Reality Show

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/us/politics/next-democratic-debates.html

Why the Democratic Debates Are Starting to Feel Like a Reality Show
By Reid J. Epstein
July 19, 2019

...

From the heavily rehearsed jabs, gimmicks and one-liners at the June debates to the elaborately staged “live drawing” for the July debate lineups that aired Thursday night on CNN, it’s starting to look like Democrats have been drawn into the reality TV genre that President Trump, who first entered most homes as a character on “The Apprentice,” started spreading in American politics.

The 10-candidate debates, said Seth Grossman, who produced reality series including “Hollywood Hillbillies” and “Intervention,” are like opening episodes, when contestants are scrapping to not be thrown off the island by appearing boring.

Candidates including Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and Representative Eric Swalwell of California tried interrupting their way to debate moments in June, but they were brushed aside. Mr. Swalwell ended his campaign soon afterward.

“What makes somebody good at conflict is narcissism. As soon as you have a healthy ability to empathize with another person’s point of view, you’re less likely to verbally insult that person,” Mr. Grossman said. “Audiences get off on watching narcissists go head to head.”

The characters who do the best on reality shows often wind up being the ones audiences dislike the most.

[Iggo]

2. "We have two dozen that would be 100 million times better than Donald Trump. "

Yes, we do.

But our system, and even more importantly, our chance of success, depends on winnowing it down to those who can win, not just someone who's better than the resident, because they're all 100 million times better.

On the other hand, I also think that "not making snap judgements" is why both you and me are Undecided.

But like I said, it's the system we have, and we have to win within this system.

Because we have to win.

[wasupaloopa]

3. There are too many candidates for me to look at them all. One of the top four will be

the nominee I think.

Most of the candidates do not expect to win I think. They have their issues and those ideas are good to hear because we need them when we win,

[democratisphere]

4. Some of the prospective candidates don't have what it takes

to be elected President; they should step aside and let those that can, do.

[Skya Rhen]

6. "From the heavily rehearsed jabs, gimmicks and one-liners at the June debates..."

I can attest that my preferred candidate did no such thing...



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/us/politics/next-democratic-debates.html

[msongs]

7. oddly enuff people think their preferred candidate should stay and the others go lol nt

[ancianita]

8. Couldn't agree more.

[barbtries]

9. I agree.

I still have my eye on and have donated to Castro, Booker and Inslee. But Warren is my current choice and has been so since pretty early on.

I'll vote for the nominee.

[Hortensis]

10. Penguin, why not suggest some names? Or better yet

put up OPs, perhaps one a day, for them?

You know, be the change. Me, I'd like a number I feel are unworthy and even a couple who dishonor the process gone. But that does leave others I'd open threads on in the lead-up to the next debate.

Btw, Seth Moulton was discussed on another thread today.

[ElementaryPenguin]

11. Good suggestions, Hortensis...

I'm sure you understand that my point wasn't really who I happen to be leaning towards, or impressed with so far...

But there's no point in denying that I do like several of them - and I'm looking for a balance between competence and electability...

So although I too like Kamala, Warren, Biden, and Bernie too (though Bernie seems to be losing his appeal for many)...

I am also very interested in Michael Bennet, Steve Bullock...I love Corey Booker, but he strikes me as more V.P. material, I thought Inslee would do better than he's done...I thought Beto was going to be stronger - and he may improve. I'm surprised that I'm impressed with Gillibrand, whom I didn't want to like, since, like many, I've never forgiven her for Al Franken.

I do wish Bennet could have entered the race earlier, but he was dealing with cancer. He's my dark horse, at this point.

[Hortensis]

12. I didn't realize that was why Sen. Bennet entered late.

He is another good one, a sensible man.

"There is no excuse for us not to finish what the ACA started and close the coverage gap in America through Medicare-X.”

I went and grabbed that quote because I believe that too and really appreciate any candidate who exhibits that responsibility and good sense, and moral fiber. Any new program would be an incremental, but backtracking, step to what the ACA began. "MfA" began with a politician's need for an issue to create his own LW and RW populist following against "the establishment," and he chose to create LW resentment against the ACA created by President Obama's administration, capitalizing on the already existing, massive RW populist hostility.

I wish Governor Inslee could be my dark horse. He's another very good one, with the experience of a governor, and electing him would be a commitment to stopping climate destruction. When I first read about him, though, the article spoke about a soft delivery style, or something like that, and I thought uh-oh. Whoever gets the nomination these days needs to be more like actors in title roles, able to own the stage among other actors. I'm a policy groupie and never decide what I like based on performance in debate or what they look like, but many do so it matters.

Senator Bennet: “We need to cover everyone, reduce costs, and improve quality—and Medicare-X is the best way to accomplish those objectives." ... The plan would build on the Medicare framework to establish a public insurance option. ... Medicare-X would use Medicare’s network of doctors and providers and guarantee the essential health benefits established in the ACA, such as maternity care and mental health services. Additionally, it would ensure access to affordable prescription drugs by offering prices negotiated in conjunction with the Medicare Part D program. The legislation includes several key updates to further lower costs and increase coverage. ...

https://www.kaine.senate.gov/press-releases/bennet-kaine-reintroduce-medicare-x-to-provide-low-cost-high-quality-insurance-to-every-american

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. Excellent quote from Bennet.

Bennet is, like you say, a very sensible person. I think he could make a really solid candidate. He's very respected amongst his peers.

I love Inslee's policy approach - based around the most pressing issue mankind has ever faced. He's got great experience - with real results, and I think he's quite likable. But on that crowded stage he just didn't seem to come across all that well. Hopefully, things will improve for a number of people up there. When I first saw him interviewed around when he was announcing, I thought Inslee could really be the nominee.

(Why must the lesser known candidates be placed on the outside and asked fewer questions anyway? They have to seem obnoxious just participate. That fact makes the debates seem a bit rigged to me.)

Until the last few years, Sherrod Brown was actually a neighbor of ours - and is a fine a person as you would ever want to meet - the very model of what a public servant should be - dedicated, sincere, brilliant - at all times exhibiting empathy and humility (the absolute antithesis of Donald Drumpf)! We were really psyched when he was considering running - but he must have felt the field was just too big, and the Dems can't afford to lose his Senate seat - not with a Republican governor. His wife, journalist Connie Schultz, is a terrific progressive, a Pulitzer Prize winner, funny as hell, and certainly not afraid to speak her mind!

[Hortensis]

14. :) Agree, agree, agree. I WISH debates would still be put on

by groups like the League of Women Voters.

But the parties and major candidates themselves killed that in favor of working with business organizations that share their interest in putting on a good, nonrisky show. Imo, putting frontrunners in the middle badly corrupts the purported purpose. But even the most ethical candidates who genuinely believe in themselves couldn't ethically just throw away an advantage that the very size of their following gave them.

I envy you knowing Sen. Brown. None of the few genuinely remarkable people I've known have run for national office, but just interacting with them, even when briefly, enriched my life. I suspect a number of our candidates are actually such people, and whatever is in those observers who are unable to imagine exceptionalism and thus look for the qualities that go into it is terribly unfortunate. Charisma and ability to speak with a show of great conviction are hardly substitutes.

[ElementaryPenguin]

15. You really wouldn't believe just how down to earth...

Sherrod truly is! My daughter would laugh and say "you would never know Sherrod was a U.S. Senator, would you, Daddy? With his rumpled clothes and all. He's so nice, though."

He would take a walk - and walk over to us and just strike up a conversation. One on one, he's a little shy, actually. So unassuming, unpretentious - so "of the people." I used to tell my wife how confident I was that the founding fathers would love this guy. And then we would see him on stage - and he would speak before Obama, or something like that - but he would come alive with passion - and transform into a completely different guy. Still nice and polite though. But he's a tenacious fighter.

Public servant - through and through. His main concern is the welfare of his constituents - and the people of this country at large.

(He may well end up being someone's VP choice - I could see Kamala picking him, for example.)