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Undecided 36%
Elizabeth Warren18%
Joe Biden13%
Kamala Harris10%
Bernie Sanders8%

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 08:47 AM

 

My Republican friends--and others--seem to think that Americans hate paying taxes but love premiums.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply My Republican friends--and others--seem to think that Americans hate paying taxes but love premiums. (Original post)
Uncle Joe Jul 18 OP
Demsrule86 Jul 18 #1
Uncle Joe Jul 18 #2
Politicub Jul 18 #21
SouthernProgressive Jul 18 #3
Mosby Jul 18 #8
SouthernProgressive Jul 18 #9
Mosby Jul 18 #11
SouthernProgressive Jul 18 #12
delisen Jul 18 #4
Uncle Joe Jul 18 #5
leftofcool Jul 18 #6
Uncle Joe Jul 18 #10
dsc Jul 18 #16
Uncle Joe Jul 18 #18
Autumn Jul 18 #14
SouthernProgressive Jul 18 #15
MichMan Jul 18 #17
SouthernProgressive Jul 18 #19
Hassin Bin Sober Jul 18 #22
delisen Jul 18 #23
Autumn Jul 18 #7
Uncle Joe Jul 18 #13
SouthernProgressive Jul 18 #20

Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 08:52 AM

1. No Sen. Sanders...they hate losing work insurance which is subsidized by employers and will be

 

cheaper than MFA...which would take years to get up and running assuming we won the Senate which is not likely. No one likes taxes or premiums...but Medicare has premiums.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 09:04 AM

2. Their work insurance is subsidized by tax payers.

 

Bernie's Medicare for All has no premiums, co-pays or deductibles, it also covers dental, hearing and vision.

M4A is an improvement on existing Medicare, should it pass and will phase in over four years.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:36 PM

21. People are willfully ignorant

 

Until there is a way for every person to see, at an individual level, the difference between MFA funded by taxes versus how much they pay in premiums and what no, they will not believe Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 09:12 AM

3. Insurance is not subsidized by employers.

 

That is a severely flawed assessment of the corporate/health insurance connection.

There are arguments that can be made when it comes to pooling insurance through the workplace. Claiming that compensation is a subsidy is not one of them. The subsidy that actually is in place is a corporate benefit that is not realize all the way through to an employees compensation package. As someone who offers health insurance as a form of compensation to my employees, Iím well aware of how it works.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 10:48 AM

8. Most companies pay a portion of the premium

 

Do you dispute that?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Mosby (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 11:02 AM

9. Not sure where I even referenced a dispute to that.

 

It's a part of the compensation package that muddies the waters. The corporation benefits on the back end, not the employee. The corporate/heath insurance bond has to be broken. It's wrong for a number of reasons. The subsidy should be direct to the citizen and linked to ability to pay. Not to the company profiting billions. It's specially damaging to small employers such as my self.

In no way can it be described as a subsidy to employees as referenced above.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 11:48 AM

11. The payment is part of the employee's total compensation

 

You seem to be hung up on a word.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Mosby (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 11:54 AM

12. I'm not hung up on a word. Not sure why you think I am.

 

I stated just what you stated here. I simply added additional and accurate information as well. It's even a regressive form of compensation depending on how the company wants to offer the plan. It stands in direct opposition to progressive ideals. Just about every candidate, including Biden, is offering something to direct us toward breaking this bond. Sorry you don't like that. The corporate/health insurance bond is going to be greatly diminished over the next decade. It will be a great benefit to the working class in so many ways.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 10:10 AM

4. A Medicare Part B typical premium-$1626.00 annual per person

 


One Example of premiums in Medicare:

Medicare Part B covers physician services, outpatient hospital services, certain home health services, durable medical equipment, and certain other medical and health services not covered by Medicare Part A.

The standard monthly premium for Medicare Part B enrollees will be $135.50 for 2019, an increase of $1.50 from $134 in 2018.

https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/2019-medicare-parts-b-premiums-and-deductibles

This is the standard payment amount for above services (note that Part B does not cover drugs or in hospital services) for individual beneficiaries earning less than or equal to $85,000 per year.

If an individual is receiving a social security check the standard monthly premium amount is deducted from their monthly social security check. This can give the illusion that Part B of Medicare is free when actually a typical Medicare enrollee is paying $1626.00 annually from their social security income.

Remember this is for an individual not a family. The average Social security check is roughly about $1422.00 per month at present or $17064.00.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to delisen (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 10:22 AM

5. Bernie's Medicare for All

 

has no premiums, co-pays or deductibles, it also covers dental, hearing and vision.

M4A is an improvement on existing Medicare, should it pass and will phase in over four years.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 10:41 AM

6. If that happens, our rural hospital will close

 

So will the rest of them within a 2 hour drive. Nothing is free
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 11:11 AM

10. Your rural hospital will have guaranteed income for every patient

 

that walks through their doors whether they have the ability to pay or not.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:13 PM

16. My state employee's (including teachers) insurance plan is trying to peg

 

reimbursement to Medicare (they are offering Medicare X 1.82) and our hospitals are saying hell no. The July 1 deadline has already passed and three hospitals (not hospital chains but hospitals) in the entire state have agreed to this. My guess is that this is a substantial cut in rates that is being offered here. Because of that there will be winners and losers in this. A hospital in an area with many privately insured people and few totally uninsured ones will likely lose revenue under this model while those with many totally uninsured people will likely gain. What would the plan be for the losing hospitals?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dsc (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:29 PM

18. Our national healthcare system has been dysfunctional for decades with the

 

American People as a whole being the primary losers.



The New York Times had coverage of a JAMA article about hospital provider payments under Medicare for All. The headline is that Medicare for All would cost hospitals billions of dollars. But this headline and the story under it are misleading insofar as they do not discuss the offsetting savings that hospitals would achieve from a lower administrative burden.

The JAMA article, written by Schulman and Milstein, starts by pointing out that Medicare reimbursement rates were initially set at hospital costs in 2000. Since then hospitals have intentionally escalated their costs through high levels of capital expenditures that they could dump on the privately-insured.

(snip)

To understand whether this cut would be problematic, it is necessary to look at how much hospitals will be able to save from the streamlined administration of a Medicare for All system. According to a study published in 2014, which was covered subsequently in the New York Times, around 25 percent of hospital revenue is spent on hospital administration. By comparison, hospitals operating in the Canadian single-payer system spend only 12 percent of their revenue on administration.

What this means is that the administrative efficiencies available under a Medicare for All system allow hospitals to offset 13 points of the 16-point revenue cut without digging into the actual cost of care. The remaining 3 points could come out of hospital profit margin (bringing the margin from 7 percent to 4 percent) or, as Dean Baker notes, from lowering the prices of hospital inputs, including the extremely high prices they currently pay for drugs and medical equipment.

(snip)

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/04/22/hospitals-will-do-fine-under-medicare-for-all/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to delisen (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:05 PM

14. Yes and I still pay a lot less that I did for my insurance from my job before I retired.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Tom Steyer

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Response to delisen (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:08 PM

15. Medicare covers the most costly in society.

 

The difference in age groups is extreme.

Here is what I was just offered for my employees. I cover their healthcare. I won't detail all of the age costs, just a couple. This is a very good plan. Limited out of pocket expenses.

18 years old. $456.42/month
40 years old. $638.88/month
64 years old. $1,499.73/month

I'm not a supporter of Medicare for All. In it's current state it's not even medicare as we know it. That said, the metric you bring to the table doesn't tell a story when it comes to extending healthcare to bring more people into a single payer plan.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:20 PM

17. And Medicare recipients also pre pay for 40 yrs prior to being eligible

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:30 PM

19. Most of them do. Not all but most. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:57 PM

22. And you or your employer pay overhead and profit for 40 years with nothing to show for it ...

 

... once you get laid off on the Uncle Sam plan. The insurance company laughs all the way to the bank while you get placed in a severely hobbled system.

The insurance pools need to be combined.

Insurance companies donít innovate or create. They simply churn YOUR money and look for ways to coerce you in to not using it, or worse yet, not collecting a claim.

Who gives a shit who pools YOUR money.

Insurance used to be a non-profit endeavor. The very idea was socialist.

Splitting the pools and chopping up markets among hundreds of for-profit companies and brokers makes zero sense.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 07:09 PM

23. Excellent point! nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 10:47 AM

7. Paying massive subsidies to private insurance are just fine but they always wonder "how will we

 

pay for MFA".
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Tom Steyer

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Response to Autumn (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:01 PM

13. Precisely Autumn.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 12:31 PM

20. I might not be a proponent of M4A...

 

But I stand behind your sentiment one hundred percent.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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