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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:18 PM

 

Harris Backs Away From Busing As A Federal Mandate After Biden Attack (Huffpost)

The comments section is interesting...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kamala-harris-busing-federal-mandate_n_5d1df665e4b04c48140fdc3f
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Reply Harris Backs Away From Busing As A Federal Mandate After Biden Attack (Huffpost) (Original post)
Skya Rhen Jul 2019 OP
Hoyt Jul 2019 #1
JCannon Jul 2019 #12
Tiggeroshii Jul 2019 #16
TwilightZone Jul 2019 #32
Hoyt Jul 2019 #17
Tiggeroshii Jul 2019 #21
JCannon Jul 2019 #28
Tiggeroshii Jul 2019 #29
JCannon Jul 2019 #37
R B Garr Jul 2019 #45
Post removed Jul 2019 #2
wyldwolf Jul 2019 #3
Cirque du So-What Jul 2019 #7
wyldwolf Jul 2019 #4
George II Jul 2019 #5
thesquanderer Jul 2019 #6
Skya Rhen Jul 2019 #9
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #18
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #8
Skya Rhen Jul 2019 #10
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #13
treestar Jul 2019 #11
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #14
treestar Jul 2019 #19
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #22
UniteFightBack Jul 2019 #15
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #20
thesquanderer Jul 2019 #25
NYMinute Jul 2019 #23
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #24
NYMinute Jul 2019 #36
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #38
NYMinute Jul 2019 #42
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #46
Mme. Defarge Jul 2019 #26
ucrdem Jul 2019 #34
Thomas Hurt Jul 2019 #27
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #30
ucrdem Jul 2019 #35
wyldwolf Jul 2019 #31
ucrdem Jul 2019 #33
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #39
Demsrule86 Jul 2019 #43
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #44
Demsrule86 Jul 2019 #47
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #48
highplainsdem Jul 2019 #40
Cha Jul 2019 #41
oasis Jul 2019 #49

Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:22 PM

1. As article indicates, Biden played into what segregationists wanted -- more time to drag feet and

 

do nothing -- preserving separate, but unequal, schools right into 2020.


"Biden has insisted he only opposed busing ordered by the federal Education Department, and said allowing local governments and school districts to implement busing was “one of the things I argued for” at the time."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:53 PM

12. Oh fer chrissakes...

 

You weren't around during the 1970s. I was. Forced busing didn't ameliorate segregation. Forced busing WORSENED segregation.

Parents don't want their kids to get up before dawn to take an hour long (maybe two-hour long) bus ride to the worst school imaginable. Plain and simple. When forced to deal with that situation, parents will move to a new district. Like it or not, that's what happens. Nothing can stop it. You can scream "Racist!" all you want, but nothing can stop it. The Supreme Court ruled a long time ago that kids cannot be bused outside of their school district. And it's not as though you'll get a different deal from THIS Supreme Court.

Talk to someone who lived through the 1970s. At that time, the post-Nixon era, the Republican party was on the ropes. People were talking about a Democratic stranglehold on the White House for decades. What turned it around? To a large degree, it was busing. People HATED busing. There were riots. Busing gave us the Reagan revolution.

Believe it or not, busing wasn't particularly well-liked by many of the black kids who came to my school in the San Fernando Valley as part of a voluntary busing program. I know this because I talked to them. Athletic programs and after-school clubs were a real pain (especially when away games increased the travel time). Those kids spent hours on the bus every day, and they came to hate it. Even then, traffic problems turned L.A. freeways into parking lots. The feeling of confinement, of being trapped, would drive anyone nuts.

I was a big Kamala Harris supporter until that debate. When she obstinately came out in favor of forced busing, it was the worst disappointment I've felt since election night, 2016. When she single-handedly wedded the Democratic party to that incredibly unpopular idea, she became the de facto chairwoman of the Committee to Re-Elect Donald Trump.

Harris says that busing worked for her. Well, how long was HER travel time? Maybe ten minutes, or so I've been told. Because SHE had a good experience, she wants to make kids in Los Angeles get up before dawn to travel for hours each day on freeways that are far worse than they were in the 1970s. Talk about self-absorbed! Her attitude is almost Trumpian.

And no, I do not prefer Biden. For reasons separate from this controversy, I have long believed that he must not get the nomination. I used to favor Harris. Right now, I (somewhat) lean toward Warren, though I'm keeping my options open.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to JCannon (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:00 PM

16. "Forced busing" was a term coined by Lee Atwater and crew to appeal to segregationists

 

It is a right wing talking point and does not belong here.
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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:13 PM

32. The term predates Atwater.

 

It was in use in the early 1960s, during the debate about the Civil Rights Act, when Atwater was barely a teen.

He only co-opted it.
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Response to JCannon (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:00 PM

17. I was around, and forced busing was only used when the local white controlled government dragged

 

their feet.

Here's some of the states' rights BS I remember and Biden condoned when working with segregationists:

https://psmag.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1240/MTU0Nzg4NTg1ODAxNzg2NDk1/b197a887c90182409ab5f9a8d4699742.webp







?_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:05 PM

21. "Forced busing" was a term specifically coined to form consensus against it

 

And make a white supremacist goal mainstream. That term should not be repeated.
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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:48 PM

28. Forced busing is precisely the right term

 

It WAS forced. So why not use the correct terminology? A blinkered insistence on euphemism isn't going to make a two-hour bus trip in Los Angeles any more palatable.

And it wasn't Lee Atwater who concocted the term. Where do people come up with this ridiculous revisionist history? Atwater was unknown then, as far as the general public was concerned.

Los Angeles wasn't the south. In the 1970s, the San Fernando Valley was liberal. Working class liberals north of the boulevard, Hollywood liberals south of the boulevard. They all hated Republicans.

Until busing.
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Response to JCannon (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:51 PM

29. Source of "revisionist history": New York Times, 6 October, 2005

 

"You start out in 1954 by saying, 'Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say 'nigger' -- that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.


https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/opinion/impossible-ridiculous-repugnant.html
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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:52 PM

37. That's no proof at all

 

That's a story from 2005, and it does not mention the term in question. Atwater did NOT concoct the term "forced busing." Atwater was Charlie Nobody in the early 1970s. You weren't around then, kid, so stop pretending that you knew what it was like. Typical Sanders supporter -- lying your head off in order to divide Americans. You can't invent fake history and then expect people to go along with your hallucinations.

Forced busing increased segregation. Proven. Indisputable.

From Wikipedia.

"In April 1971, in the case Bradley v. Richmond School Board, Federal District Judge Robert R. Merhige, Jr., ordered an extensive citywide busing program in Richmond, Virginia. When the massive busing program began in the fall of 1971, parents of all races complained about the long rides, hardships with transportation for extracurricular activities, and the separation of siblings when elementary schools at opposite sides of the city were "paired", (i.e., splitting lower and upper elementary grades into separate schools). The result was further white flight to private schools and to suburbs in the neighboring counties of Henrico and Chesterfield that were predominately white...

"The percentage of white students in Richmond city schools declined from 45 to 21 percent between 1960 and 1975 and continued to decline over the next several decades. By 2010 white students accounted for less than 9 percent of student enrollment in Richmond.[40] This so-called "white flight" prevented Richmond schools from ever becoming truly integrated."


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Response to JCannon (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:24 PM

45. Thanks for your input. You are 100% correct about the disaster

 

it is to even insinuate Democrats are going to be arguing about this 40 year old issue.

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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:24 PM

3. This

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:36 PM

7. Like that, do ya?

 

Got any disparaging words of your own that you'd like to contribute?
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:30 PM

4. From the darling of the left to self-inflicted wound...

 

... in less than a week.
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:35 PM

5. It never should have been raised as an issue.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:35 PM

6. I don't see any comments section. Hmmph. (n/t)

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:40 PM

9. You would have to click on the bubble icon, on the left of the website...

 

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:01 PM

18. The HuffPo comment section is infested with right wing trolls.

 

Why anyone here would direct people there is strange.
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:39 PM

8. Misleading headline. She did not "back away from busing as a federal mandate."

 

Here is what she actually said, as stated in the article itself:

After a Democratic Party picnic Wednesday in West Des Moines, Harris was asked by reporters whether she supports federally mandated busing.

“I think of busing as being in the toolbox of what is available and what can be used for the goal of desegregating America’s schools,” she responded.

Asked to clarify whether she supports federally mandated busing, she replied, “I believe that any tool that is in the toolbox should be considered by a school district.”


That is very different from saying she opposes federally mandated school busing. As she pointed out in the debate, sometimes the school districts refuse to do the right thing. That is when the feds must step in:

HARRIS: So, that’s where the federal government must step in.

BIDEN: The–the federal government must–

HARRIS: –That’s why we have the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. That’s why we need to pass the Equality Act. That’s why we need to pass the ERA because there are–

BIDEN: –That–

HARRIS: –Moments in-

HARRIS: –history where states fail to preserve the civil rights of all people.

https://time.com/5616518/2020-democratic-debate-night-2-transcript/
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:41 PM

10. This is Huffpost's Headline...

 

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:56 PM

13. Yes, and you posted it, without even including Harris' actual quote.

 

Why?

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:42 PM

11. Any more unfair than the claim

 

that Biden "worked with segregationists" when he was only talking about how they could talk back then whereas now it is completely partisan?
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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:59 PM

14. So two wrongs make a right? Seriously?

 

And who said Biden "worked with segregationists"? It wasn't Kamala Harris.
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:02 PM

19. She found it hurtful that he mentioned talking with them

 

and worked with them again busing. That was the position in general. You can't really object to parsing her words or jumping to conclusions about them when that is what happens to Biden daily.
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Response to treestar (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:10 PM

22. That's what I thought. You made up the quote.

 

And I agree, Biden's and all the Dem candidates' words are being parsed and misleadingly interpreted. Why is that ok here too? Can't we leave the misleading shit-stirring to HuffPo and Rushbo and not give it space here?
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:59 PM

15. She said "considered by a school DISTRICT". I think she did a pretty good job with the walk back.nt

 

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:04 PM

20. No, she just said the school district should consider it, not that the feds shouldn't intervene.

 

That is not a walk back.
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:23 PM

25. A misleading headline from HuffPo? What is the world coming to?

 

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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:12 PM

23. Epic flip-flop

 

This will be noticed
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Response to NYMinute (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:13 PM

24. Did you read the article? All she said was school districts should consider busing. nt

 

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #24)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:49 PM

36. She said the same thing that she attacked Joe Biden with

 

Then, when it created heat of "Kamala is for busing children" - because of the attack, she flip-flopped to the exact same position as Joe Biden.
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Response to NYMinute (Reply #36)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:53 PM

38. No she didn't. Her position is fed action should be part of the anti-segregation "tool box."

 

Whereas Biden opposed federal action on busing. That is not the "exact same position."
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 07:59 PM

42. You can try to spin it that way but it is obvious to everyone. nt

 

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Response to NYMinute (Reply #42)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:34 PM

46. I'm not engaing in spin. I'm stating her position. She stated it again today.

 

Today she addressed the Biden campaign's assertion that her "tool box" statement meant she agreed with Biden:

That statement led many within the Biden campaign to say that Harris essentially agrees with Biden. She pushed back on that notion at an Indianola house party Thursday afternoon. 

“Sadly, we do not agree,” she said. She said that although she currently supports voluntary busing, it was wrong to oppose it in the 1960s and 1970s when “there were forces and individuals and supposed leaders in our country who actively worked against the integration of schools based on race.” 

“I’ve asked him and have yet to hear him agree that busing that was court-ordered and mandated in most places and in that era in which I was bused was necessary,” Harris said. 

“He has yet to agree that his position on this, which was to work with segregationists and oppose busing, was wrong.
Period.”


 https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2019/07/04/joe-biden-kamala-harris-iowa-caucuses-2020-4th-july-busing-school-integration-debate-exchange/1647944001/
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:35 PM

26. A hit and run?

 

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Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:25 PM

34. We're allowed to do that here ...

 

But this poster is not a troll. It's a holiday and people have things to do. Speaking of which happy 4th!
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:39 PM

27. sheesh, everyone including Harris should just move on from busing...

 

the longer any of the candidates linger on it, the more openings they give that fascist pig in the WH to use it as narrative.

Trump and his servile lackeys are good at that if nothing else.
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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 03:03 PM

30. She was responding to a question from a reporter. It was not in her prepared remarks.

 

But I agree. We need to be discussing other issues. Like healthcare. And impeaching the motherfucker.
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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:27 PM

35. good luck putting the genie back in the bottle.

 

In my frank opinion the only way to stop this swiftboat before it ruins us is to declare a Biden-Harris ticket and call it early, formally or informally. Otherwise this thing is gonna kill us.
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:06 PM

31. Rev. Jesse Jackson says Harris on 'the wrong side of history' with busing

 

Rev. Jesse Jackson says Harris on 'the wrong side of history' with busing

The Rev. Jesse Jackson knocked Kamala Harris for her views on busing, saying the senator is on "the wrong side of history."

No wait! He said that about Biden before Harris flip flopped and took Joe’s position.

Ah well, Jessie. We’re waiting for you to call out Kamala.
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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:15 PM

33. LOL, Joe Biden, accidental prophet.

 

Who knew?
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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:59 PM

39. Why should Rev. Jackdon "call out" Harris? She did not make a pro-states rights argument.

 

She just said busing should be part of the "tool box" to address segregation. She did not say she opposed the Department of Education ordering busing to desegregate schools. Biden said that.
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #39)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:00 PM

43. Sure she did...by saying she opposed federally imposed busing she left it to the states...states

 

right.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:21 PM

44. That's not what she said.

 

That statement led many within the Biden campaign to say that Harris essentially agrees with Biden. She pushed back on that notion at an Indianola house party Thursday afternoon. 

“Sadly, we do not agree,” she said. She said that although she currently supports voluntary busing, it was wrong to oppose it in the 1960s and 1970s when “there were forces and individuals and supposed leaders in our country who actively worked against the integration of schools based on race.” 

“I’ve asked him and have yet to hear him agree that busing that was court-ordered and mandated in most places and in that era in which I was bused was necessary,” Harris said. 

“He has yet to agree that his position on this, which was to work with segregationists and oppose busing, was wrong. Period.” 


https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2019/07/04/joe-biden-kamala-harris-iowa-caucuses-2020-4th-july-busing-school-integration-debate-exchange/1647944001/
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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #44)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 09:21 PM

47. She said she had the same position as he does...so...Hope she can manage to explain herself.

 

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #47)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 09:25 PM

48. Nope. He opposes the fed ordered busing in the 60s/70s, she doesn't. nt

 

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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 05:37 PM

40. I'm seeing a LOT of tweets about Harris's backtracking, and they're showing up among

 

the Top tweets whether I'm searching Twitter for

biden

or

kamala harris

or

harris debate



For instance, this from Slate's Jordan Weissman:






and this from Sam Metz of the Desert Sun and USA Today, commenting on a TPM tweet on Harris's backtracking






and this from CNBC's John Harwood





commenting on a thread from James Surowiecki (Slate, the New Yorker) that starts here





that was followed by a few unlinked tweets about her waffling, ending with this tweet:





I even ran across this tweet from the digital TV producer for America's Got Talent (who supports Mayor Pete, judging by his tweets):






I don't think backtracking was the meme Harris was looking for, but I couldn't help noticing how often it turned up, even from people who are definitely NOT Biden supporters.
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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 06:39 PM

41. Wow.. this should be an OP,

 

highplainsdem

Thank You!
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Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2019, 10:22 PM

49. Selling "authenticity" won't be so easy as selling t-shirts.

 

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