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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 03:51 PM

 

It's interesting some are pouncing on Biden for something he mentioned almost a year ago as well...

Nothing political here, right?

Taken from a speech he delivered at the HRC in Sept., 2018:

"If you were at a fancy restaurant in Washington five or six years ago, and a gay or lesbian waiter came up, or a transgender, spoke with a lisp...and someone made fun of that person, no one would've said anything. Not a joke. I want you to think about this. If that same thing happened today, the other people at the table would say, you horses tail, get out of here. Really"[applause]


https://www.c-span.org/video/?451452-1/vice-president-biden-addresses-human-rights-campaign-dinner

There's legitimate reason to question things about candidates - but this feels forced and petty.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply It's interesting some are pouncing on Biden for something he mentioned almost a year ago as well... (Original post)
Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 OP
MineralMan Jun 2019 #1
Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #2
PBC_Democrat Jul 2019 #58
MineralMan Jul 2019 #59
Peacetrain Jun 2019 #3
onetexan Jun 2019 #26
marylandblue Jun 2019 #32
bluewater Jun 2019 #4
Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #5
Cha Jun 2019 #7
George II Jun 2019 #10
bluewater Jun 2019 #11
George II Jun 2019 #12
bluewater Jun 2019 #14
George II Jun 2019 #15
LanternWaste Jul 2019 #54
Cha Jun 2019 #6
qazplm135 Jun 2019 #8
democratisphere Jun 2019 #9
melman Jun 2019 #13
wyldwolf Jun 2019 #16
melman Jun 2019 #21
wyldwolf Jun 2019 #23
melman Jun 2019 #25
FreeState Jun 2019 #31
Eliot Rosewater Jul 2019 #66
Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #17
melman Jun 2019 #22
Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #24
Beartracks Jun 2019 #28
George II Jul 2019 #48
melman Jun 2019 #29
betsuni Jul 2019 #40
melman Jul 2019 #41
betsuni Jul 2019 #42
melman Jul 2019 #44
betsuni Jul 2019 #46
tonedevil Jul 2019 #65
melman Jul 2019 #68
betsuni Jul 2019 #70
ehrnst Jul 2019 #69
LanternWaste Jul 2019 #55
Cha Jul 2019 #43
betsuni Jul 2019 #45
George II Jul 2019 #49
Vegas Roller Jul 2019 #50
George II Jun 2019 #33
Cha Jul 2019 #36
melman Jul 2019 #38
Vegas Roller Jul 2019 #51
LanternWaste Jul 2019 #56
melman Jul 2019 #67
Vegas Roller Jul 2019 #39
emulatorloo Jul 2019 #53
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #18
Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #19
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #20
guillaumeb Jun 2019 #27
Karadeniz Jun 2019 #30
shanny Jun 2019 #34
still_one Jun 2019 #35
George II Jul 2019 #60
still_one Jul 2019 #61
George II Jul 2019 #62
still_one Jul 2019 #63
Cha Jul 2019 #37
cwydro Jul 2019 #47
Autumn Jul 2019 #52
loyalsister Jul 2019 #57
tonedevil Jul 2019 #64

Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 03:56 PM

1. Yes, it's a pretty minimal issue to bring up, isn't it?

 

Plus, he got applause from the audience of human rights people. I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from this, really. Things have changed rather quickly in that area, to be sure. Now, nobody at a table I was at would have done something like that, because I don't hang out with people who would. But people are a lot less tolerant of bigotry like that these days.

I don't see where the scandal lies, really.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 03:59 PM

2. Yes. It's a weird flex.

 

Remember the night Obama won the presidency ... and California turned around and voted to eliminate the rights of gay couples to marry?

California - not Utah or Idaho or Texas. CAL-IF-ORNIA.

Less than a decade later, marriage equality would be the law of the land.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:53 AM

58. We don't always get to choose who is at the table

 

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Back when I was working I frequently how no control who was at the table. Between customers, partners, and whoever they chose to invite - I was meeting a lot of them for the first time.

My task was to get along with everyone.

I believe Joe was referring to those type situations where someone makes a rude, off-color, or non-PC remark.

Many years ago it would have been laughed off - Now that person would be called out on it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to PBC_Democrat (Reply #58)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:08 AM

59. That's certainly true.

 

I'm sure that everyone has let something slide in certain situations. In group settings where everyone is more or less equal in terms of authority or responsibility, it's usually better to take up issues with individuals later, instead of confronting the issue immediately.

"Jim, your comment during the meeting about [subject] really didn't go over well at all. Several people's expressions indicated that they were troubled by it. Not everything you think needs to be expressed in a group setting. Maybe you should think about that before you say something that will offend people you're meeting with, and think about whether what you might say even makes sense."

Something like that. The other thing you can do in a group is to catch the person's eye and show your objection subtly through your expression. A raised eyebrow, a look of disbelief, or an expression that shows your distaste for what was said is often more effective than a verbal criticism of the comment.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:00 PM

3. It is forced .. it is petty .. it is desperate..

 

and they are not looking good for it...there are those who will pick up every word and try to make it negative.. because that is all they have.. and if you notice.. once the concocted story gets it full reading and not just a half reading to fit some preset narrative but what he really said..

You know what you hear.. Crickets..

Because there are those who are off and running for a new outrage.. and its one every day.. and I love how some will then turn and say things like well.. well "he muddled his words".. sigh..

Its a strategy.. but it is forced, petty and desperate
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Peacetrain (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:13 PM

26. Agree. Circular firing squad.

 

Dems need to get out of this mode of harming our own. Leave the mudslinging to be lobbed to the other side after the primaries.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Peacetrain (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 08:17 PM

32. "he muddled his words." You are quoting me and misinterpreting,

 

ironically in a thread complaining about how Biden gets misinterpreted. I understood what he was trying to say, but I feel it could have been stated better with a different example. I didn't insult him, claim I was outraged, make a big deal about, or say he is homophobic or any other such thing.

All I was trying to say was what he himself says, which is "I am a gaffe machine." That's a direct Biden quote and a great line for him. I wish he would use it more, then the press wouldn't find his gaffes, muddles, confusing statements, facile misinterpretations, or whatever you want to call them, so interesting.

I also wish his followers would recognize these things for what they are, instead of expressing faux outrage at other people's faux outrage.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:02 PM

4. It tells us about the patrons of those fancy Washington restaurants

 

"If you were at a fancy restaurant in Washington five or six years ago, and a gay or lesbian waiter came up, or a transgender, spoke with a lisp...and someone made fun of that person, no one would've said anything. Not a joke. I want you to think about this."

Lets think about this...

So, who was eating at a fancy Washington restaurant 5-6 years ago... Politicians? Lobbyists? The other people at Joe's own table?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to bluewater (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:10 PM

5. Apparently something a lot in that crowd could relate to, since they applauded the line.

 

But hey, you do you.
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Response to bluewater (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:12 PM

7. You think about it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to bluewater (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:42 PM

10. Nothing like twisting the idea behind the comments and the post. The same holds true...

 

...if it was McDonald's, a pizza joint, etc. Why did you have to drag in the weary talking points of "politicians? lobbyists?" ?

What is your point in doing that? Would love a response.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:01 PM

11. Because Biden said "if you were at was a fancy Washington restaurant" in his story.

 

Didn't you read what he said?

"If you were at a fancy restaurant in Washington five or six years ago, and a gay or lesbian waiter came up, or a transgender, spoke with a lisp...and someone made fun of that person, no one would've said anything. Not a joke. I want you to think about this."

And yes, when someone mentions fancy Washington restaurants, like Biden did in his story, I do think of lobbyists and Politicians.

It sounds like he is relaying a personal story, that he actually heard that himself in a fancy Washington restaurant he was dining at.

Did he over hear that from another table, or did someone at his own table make that comment?

If Biden did NOT hear this remark himself in a fancy Washington restaurant, he should have made that more clear.

And on re-reading what Biden said in his story, what's with this "spoke with a lisp" stuff?!?

Talk about perpetuating anti-gay stereotypes.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to bluewater (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:08 PM

12. Yes he did. So? There are LOTS of "fancy restaurants" in Washington or any major city....

 

....that don't necessarily cater to "lobbyists" or "politicians". So why do YOU suggest that either of those two groups were involved as though there was something wrong with it?

As I said, the old tired "lobbyists" and "politicians" talking points. Guess what, it didn't work!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:19 PM

14. "that don't necessarily cater to "lobbyists" or "politicians" "

 

"don't necessarily"

"cater to"


I think these are examples of what people refer to as "weasel words" that people use to squirm out of a losing argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

Thank you for the discussion!


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to bluewater (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:34 PM

15. I'll be here for a long time if you want to discuss this further, without the insults. You?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to bluewater (Reply #14)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 09:29 AM

54. Weasel words apply to inferences as well.

 

Much as the inference you constructed from his statement.

Squirming, indeed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:11 PM

6. Because you fought to make it happen, marriage equality is the law of the land,

 


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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:20 PM

8. only when it's Biden

 

anyone else, it's legit.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 04:25 PM

9. I hope we are not going to have 17 more months of this petty nonsense

 

before the elections. Christ people, get your priority straight: Defeat drumpf.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:16 PM

13. So is he saying this from personal experience?

 

Did he hear such a joke within the last five years and say nothing about it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:42 PM

16. 1. Why does that matter? 2. You just made an asinine assumption

 

Why does it matter if it's from personal experience? As recently as five years ago we were still seeing gay jokes on a lot of TV shows. We still see them today.

Why would you even make the leap to he said "nothing about it?"
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:05 PM

21. I didn't make any assumptions

 

asinine or otherwise. If he's going to offer an anecdote like this it's reasonable to ask how he knows.

And why does it matter? Seriously? I can't even think of how to answer such a question.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to melman (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:09 PM

23. Yeah, you did, the insinuation was obvious.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:11 PM

25. No I didn't

 

"no one would have said anything" - these are his words. How does he know it to be true?
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Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 07:41 PM

31. He doesn't - and as a gay mans this still happens all the time

 

Letís not fool ourselves - homophobia hasnít been eradicated in the last 10 years by any stretch of the imagination. Itís still there.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 01:31 PM

66. Some folks just want to BASH Democrats whenever they can

 

Not you
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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:43 PM

17. He didn't say 'I' so I would assume he was just using a blanket example to make a point.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:07 PM

22. It doesn't work as a blanket example

 

Because five years ago was 2014 and that was definitely not okay.
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Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:09 PM

24. Unfortunately, for many, it was okay in 2014.

 

To the broader point, which you refuse to acknowledge (maybe out of pettiness, I do not know) is to showcase the substantial progress we've seen as a country in a very short time. There's a reason that line, delivered at a HRC event, drew applause - because many in that crowd have experienced the drastic change over the last decade.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to melman (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:25 PM

28. Didn't say it was okay, just said no one would have said anything.

 

He didn't elaborate as to what the people who didn't speak up were actually thinking.

Now, today, according to his anecdote, they have the courage to speak up, and that is progress and a good thing.

======
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to melman (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 08:54 AM

48. Maybe where you are but in many parts of the country it WAS okay, in fact....

 

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)

....it's still okay with a lot of people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:29 PM

29. He's told this story more than once before

 

And in an earlier version he does put himself at the table.






https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2014/07/16/joe-biden-suggests-his-obama-administration-legacy-is-same-sex-marriage
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:48 AM

40. Oh, melman. A group of businesswomen and men. Biden is a politician.

 

He does not put himself at the table.

"Because, as Biden put it .... the consensus would have been that it's OK to make fun of someone who is gay." Not a personal anecdote. But you knew that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 03:02 AM

41. oh, betsuni

 

He most certainly does. But you knew that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #41)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 03:11 AM

42. Where does he say: "I was at a table with business people 15 years ago ... ."

 

Could you please provide a link?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 03:29 AM

44. How else does he know

 

that "a waiter with a distinct lisp came up and asked for their order and someone said, 'Well let me tell you what I'd like,'" Biden said, feminizing his voice and pretending to be a restaurant patron picking on the waiter."


Are you suggesting this is all made up and he employed that stereotype to make the story go over better?

Because let me tell you, that doesn't make it a whole lot better.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 03:49 AM

46. "It's not good enough for somebody to say, 'Hey, I'm a Latina, vote for me.'"

 

"It is not good enough for somebody to say 'I'm a woman, vote for me'... ." How does Bernie Sanders know that someone said "Hey, I'm a Latina, vote for me" or "I'm a woman, vote for me." Where was this and when and who? Maybe it was all made up and he employed that stereotype to make the story go over better.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 01:15 PM

65. Senator Sanders...

 

disqualifying himself by saying stupid stuff isn't mutually exclusive of VP Biden doing the same.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to betsuni (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 01:48 PM

68. lol

 

The ever popular 'but what about BERNIE!1!'








If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to melman (Reply #68)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 08:43 AM

70. ...

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 06:07 PM

69. .....

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to melman (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 09:31 AM

55. I dig how you apply nuance to all candidates butt Biden.

 

In regards to Biden however, you certainly deny in his words any and all but your own narrative.

Very cool.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 03:14 AM

43. Unreal.. somebody's working

 

hard but it's not going so well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Cha (Reply #43)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 03:31 AM

45. As usual.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to melman (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 08:56 AM

49. He DOESN'T put himself at the table. Where/how did he do that?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to melman (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 08:57 AM

50. The font is not very big ... to convince

 

0.000000001% more people, it needs to be 8 times the size.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 08:20 PM

33. Send his campaign an email and ask him. He said it wasn't a joke so....

 

...why are you calling it a joke here?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 01:53 AM

36. Give it up, melman..

 

you're not getting anywhere.


Your concern is duly noted.
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Response to Cha (Reply #36)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:12 AM

38. Give what up?

 

And where is it you think I'm trying to get?
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Response to melman (Reply #38)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 08:58 AM

51. Biden bashing is quite transparent nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to melman (Reply #38)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 09:33 AM

56. "Give what up?" An absurd and failed narrative.

 

"And where is it you think I'm trying to get?"

Again, to an absurd and failed narrative.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #56)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 01:41 PM

67. How so?

 

How are those sentences "absurd and false narratives"?
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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:46 AM

39. Isn't that speculative innuendo?

 

Does that help Senator BS?

Ooops .. my apologies .. you're undecided.


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to melman (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 09:23 AM

53. your choice: fabricate a story about Biden, or write a positive thread about your candidates

 

I know you can move beyond all this negative campaigning and give DUíers important arguments about how your candidates are best suited for the presidency.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:45 PM

18. I'm the first to admit

 

that Biden has made a few gaffes and needs tighter messaging. But this isnít a gaffe, heís giving an honest observation. It gets better every year but thereís still plenty of homophobes.
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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:49 PM

19. All I can say is that the year Obama-Biden won, California voted to ban gay marriage.

 

California - arguably the most liberal state in the country - voted to ban it barely ten years ago.

Barely four years ago, the Supreme Court ruled it was legal.

We've seen so much progress in such a short amount of time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 05:58 PM

20. Yes we have.

 

I think I saw a recent poll that said 67% of Americans are ok with gay marriage. Thatís a hell of an improvement from what it was not too long ago.
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 06:24 PM

27. He correctly pointed out that attitudes might be slowly changing. eom

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 07:36 PM

30. I guess I'm dense. To me, he's just explaining that our culture is changing and for the better.

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 08:23 PM

34. A year ago his wasn't officially running for president. eom

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sun Jun 30, 2019, 08:54 PM

35. It was only a few weeks ago there were posts "snickering" about Lindsey Graham supposedly being gay,

 

as though his being gay mattered?

I guess among some, perhaps here at DU, it might be considered "ok"



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Response to still_one (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:16 AM

60. As much as I don't like Graham, those posts infuriated me, and thankfully almost all were removed.

 

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Response to George II (Reply #60)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:14 PM

61. same here George, but my point was that some people thought it was ok, and that wasn't 5 years ago

 

and some of those people I suspect self-identify as "progressive" to boot


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Response to still_one (Reply #61)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:28 PM

62. Right. Some people (even here) STILL think it's okay to joke about things like that. Sad.

 

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Response to George II (Reply #62)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:33 PM

63. Exactly

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:05 AM

37. "Pouncing" is definitely the

 

correct word. And, Pathetic is another one.
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 05:54 AM

47. "Spoke with a lisp?"

 

What the everloving fuck?

Alex, Iíll take gay stereotypes for 500.

Unreal.
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 09:03 AM

52. I think going back to the 70's is fair game. Precedence has been set. nt

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:33 AM

57. He's running on his record

 

It's fair to scrutinize it if he's going to tell us it's part of his argument for why we should support him. His campaign/ supporters can't have it both ways. Brag about it as what makes him the best candidate and turn around and say it's unfair to talk about it.
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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:57 PM

64. Isn't it getting talked about now...

 

because VP Biden said it recently in Seattle? The same reason his work against busing is getting mentioned he brought up working with Senator Eastland and his work with Eastland was to oppose busing. Maybe he could find some new stories?
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