Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:57 AM Jun 2019

Biden and Democratic Rivals Exchange Attacks Over His Remarks on Segregationists


Joseph R. Biden Jr. on Wednesday lashed out at his Democratic rivals who had condemned his fond recollections of working relationships with segregationists in the Senate, declining to apologize and defending his record on civil rights. The angry exchange shattered, at least for now, the relative comity that had marked the Democratic presidential primary.

Until Wednesday, many of the Democratic candidates had largely taken oblique swipes at Mr. Biden, while the former vice president sought to stay above the fray, training his sights on President Trump instead.

But a day after he invoked the 1970s, an era when he said he could find common ground with other senators — even virulent segregationists — his opponents offered their sharpest criticism yet.

Senator Kamala Harris of California said the former vice president “doesn’t understand the history of our country and the dark history of our country,” and Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey said Mr. Biden should immediately apologize for using segregationists to make a point about civility in the Senate.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-eastland.html

Biden foolishly fanned the flames and this has now become a multi-day self inflicted disaster.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Biden and Democratic Rivals Exchange Attacks Over His Remarks on Segregationists (Original Post) Voltaire2 Jun 2019 OP
It will be out of the news in a couple days. Then Dems can focus on the Real White Supremacist emulatorloo Jun 2019 #1
The entire Republican caucus in the house Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #2
No more and no less than many DUers as well. LanternWaste Jun 2019 #3
Analogy fail. Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #4
I hate it when I agree with Morning Joe Gothmog Jun 2019 #5
Nobody said he spoke with adoration. Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #6
"Praise" means adoration. That's what Booker said. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #12
er, no it doesn't. Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #14
Here you go,Voltaire2. A womansplainin' of words to you.... Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #15
So you agree they are not equivalent. Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #16
English major here. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #17
Yes and substituting a word that is similar Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #24
Speaking of "foolish" (your word), Bernie just had a meltdown R B Garr Jun 2019 #7
Thank you for this, RB.. someone else Cha Jun 2019 #8
You're welcome, Cha. R B Garr Jun 2019 #10
Amazing how Biden can inflict willful (or ignorant) misinterpretation upon himself. His intent emmaverybo Jun 2019 #36
He touched the Teflon. ucrdem Jun 2019 #20
According to Symone Sanders, Biden did not praise a segregationist Gothmog Jun 2019 #9
Any one who True Blue American Jun 2019 #11
This is true. Besides, it seems Thurmond changed, like Robert Byrd did. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #13
Thurmond never renounced his segregationist views. Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #18
Yes, he did. Like Robert Byrd. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #19
Please provide some evidence that he said Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #23
When Thurmond True Blue American Jun 2019 #25
He had to, but True Blue American Jun 2019 #26
Don't most of us evolve over the years? True Blue American Jun 2019 #21
My high school history teacher once told us some of the staunchest supporters among white emmaverybo Jun 2019 #37
I don't know what Biden is trying to accomplish by keeping this story alive. Politicub Jun 2019 #22
Biden keeping it alive? How about True Blue American Jun 2019 #27
Biden called for an apology from Booker. That's how he's keeping it alive. Politicub Jun 2019 #28
You heard the conversation? True Blue American Jun 2019 #30
Biden did ask for an apology. CentralMass Jun 2019 #33
No, Biden said he did not need to apologize True Blue American Jun 2019 #39
The cnn video that I provided at the link has the words Cory should apologuze to me coming out of CentralMass Jun 2019 #41
The pile on is the same. True Blue American Jun 2019 #40
If Biden had apologized to Booker he would have killed the story BeyondGeography Jun 2019 #29
It gives me a headache, too. Politicub Jun 2019 #31
LOL ucrdem Jun 2019 #32
I think Booker was off base because of the fallacy of presentism meow2u3 Jun 2019 #34
Bookmarked the link to explanation of this concept. Wow. I learn something almost everyday emmaverybo Jun 2019 #38
Some candidates just want more attention got to get higher than 4-8 % in polls FloridaBlues Jun 2019 #35
 

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
1. It will be out of the news in a couple days. Then Dems can focus on the Real White Supremacist
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:49 AM
Jun 2019

sympathizer and Neo-Nazi enabler: Donald J Trump.

I see Harris is already back to calling Trump out for his racism. I expect Booker to do the same soon. And Biden has called out Trump for his egregious response to Charlotteville over and over.

If Booker and Harris truly want to start rising in the polls, they’ll refocus on policy and what they’ll do as President of our country.



JMHO, which means absolutely nothing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
2. The entire Republican caucus in the house
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:23 PM
Jun 2019

and senate are in lockstep with Trump. Conversely, Trump is and has been in lockstep with these same Republicans. You and more importantly your candidate are making a serious mistake in thinking that the problem is just Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
3. No more and no less than many DUers as well.
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:28 PM
Jun 2019

"Biden foolishly fanned the flames..."

No more and no less than many DUers as well. But I imagine a distinction lacking a relevant difference will soon be created.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
4. Analogy fail.
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:31 PM
Jun 2019

What happens here is basically irrelevant. What the leading democratic candidate does has consequences.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
5. I hate it when I agree with Morning Joe
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:43 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
6. Nobody said he spoke with adoration.
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:48 PM
Jun 2019

He praised Eastland for his “civility” and said he could work with him. Eastland was an horrendous overt racist. Then he stuck his other foot in his mouth with the “never called me boy” remark. He omitted the fact that he was working with Eastland on anti-busing legislation.

Reportedly Biden’s staff have begged him to stop retelling this story, but he ain’t listening.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
12. "Praise" means adoration. That's what Booker said. nt
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:41 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
14. er, no it doesn't.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:47 AM
Jun 2019

This is a crappy argument. It is a common fallacy known as equivocation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
15. Here you go,Voltaire2. A womansplainin' of words to you....
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:56 AM
Jun 2019

Adoration (Latin) is respect, reverence, strong admiration or devotion in a certain person, place, or thing. The term comes from the Latin adōrātiō, meaning "to give homage or worship to someone or something".

Praise as a form of social interaction expresses recognition, reassurance or admiration. Praise is expressed verbally as well as by body language (facial expression and gestures).


Wikipedia






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
16. So you agree they are not equivalent.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:57 AM
Jun 2019

Thanks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
17. English major here.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:00 AM
Jun 2019

They are similar, depending on the context. No two words are identical. There's a reason that there are different words for the same thing. The meaning is similar.

Booker's intent was the same, whether he said praise or adoration. More importantly, he was wrong. But I understand his desperation to make a mark, make some news, try to do something to get his numbers to move. His numbers won't be moving, though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
24. Yes and substituting a word that is similar
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:23 AM
Jun 2019

to another word in order to use a meaning of the newly substituted word is an equivocation fallacy, even for English majors.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
7. Speaking of "foolish" (your word), Bernie just had a meltdown
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:57 PM
Jun 2019

on MSNBC’s Velshi and Ruhle show. Bernie kept pushing the misinformation that Biden was praising segregationists and the hosts kept correcting that lie. Bernie snapped at Ruhle when she corrected him yet again. It was a shocking reaction.

Bernie has real and substantive self-inflicted disasters lately with misrepresenting Warren who is beating him now, and now also with Biden. Bernie’s “multi-day self inflicted disaster” (your words).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
8. Thank you for this, RB.. someone else
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:17 PM
Jun 2019

mentioned BS' reaction to Stephanie Ruhle went she corrected him a 2nd time.. and I asked for more details.

Yeah, some people don't care about BS' self inflicted wounds.. only Biden's. That's why I don't take them seriously at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
10. You're welcome, Cha.
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:00 PM
Jun 2019


I don’t take them seriously, either, and it looks to be backfiring on them like it did for Sanders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
36. Amazing how Biden can inflict willful (or ignorant) misinterpretation upon himself. His intent
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 12:44 PM
Jun 2019

was clear. He used two egregious character examples to show that legislators can and must work with their opposites to accomplish legislation.
“Son” is a red herring. Booker put a spin on its use to tarnish Joe by association.
Booker made Joe’s story about himself, exploiting it to reaffirm his woke cred.
No doubt Booker’s experience with racist epithet cloaked in everyday forms of demeaning address is painful and profound.
However, he projected his story on to Joe’s, an exploitive political tactic Biden naturally resisted.
Bernie piled on, in service to his agenda.
Meanwhile, the state continues to perpetrate atrocities against Central American asylum seekers, increasing the extent and degree of persecution through additional draconian policies, justifying an illegal operation by a barrage of racist propaganda, which candidates fail to address, so busy are they manufacturing outrage over a rival’s harmless story.
I do hope Joe stops apologizing for the offense rivals enjoy taking.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
20. He touched the Teflon.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:18 AM
Jun 2019


Bad move as Booker is also about to discover.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
9. According to Symone Sanders, Biden did not praise a segregationist
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:37 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
11. Any one who
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 05:27 AM
Jun 2019

Knows the first thing about Congress knows you have to work with those you do not agree with to accomplish anything.

Booker was trying to be noticed, Bernie is desperate due to his falling ratings to Warner. He has already called Warren a Corporatist, which is down right laughable due to her History. He is flailing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
13. This is true. Besides, it seems Thurmond changed, like Robert Byrd did.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:45 AM
Jun 2019

Biden even addresses that in his eulogy.

Thurmond promoted civil rights for more years than Cortez has been alive. Biden says something like, "Some people assign political expediency to his change of policy, but I prefer to think of it as a change with the times, a change of heart."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
18. Thurmond never renounced his segregationist views.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:01 AM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
19. Yes, he did. Like Robert Byrd.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:15 AM
Jun 2019

Whether it was because he had to, politically, or whether his heart changed, we can't know for sure.

Whether he used the words that you would demand he use, is another matter. But it's clear that he did denounce his former position against civil rights...in many ways.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
23. Please provide some evidence that he said
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:15 AM
Jun 2019

anything that can be construed as “renouncing his segregationist views”.


Starting in the 1970s, he moderated his position on race, but continued to defend his early segregationist campaigns on the basis of states' rights in the context of Southern society at the time.[7] He never fully renounced his earlier positions.[8]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
25. When Thurmond
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:56 AM
Jun 2019

Admitted he had a black daughter was when he changed. I give him no thumbs up but that does nothing to the fact there are times when you have to work with the worst to accomplish anything.

That is what Joe said, nothing offensive.

The fact Biden had the decency to call shows his true character.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
21. Don't most of us evolve over the years?
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:58 AM
Jun 2019

Or they stagnate. I enjoy learning, seeing things in perspective, change my mind. That is growing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
37. My high school history teacher once told us some of the staunchest supporters among white
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 01:06 PM
Jun 2019

politicians for civil rights had been Southern segregationists because, like converts once immersed in some evil religion, they had got an inside view.

Miko Peled, former IDF soldier, grandson of a state founder and son of a general, devotes his life
to pro-Palestinian activism. His father, disenchanted with Israel’s military policies, became a critic and a professor in Arabic literature.

One can argue about Peled’s thesis articulated in his book The General’s Son, but not with his
and his family’s sincere and passionate evolution from true believers to fierce dissenters.
History is rife with such examples.

Biden has changed too. Maybe that’s why he understands the capacity to.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
22. I don't know what Biden is trying to accomplish by keeping this story alive.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:03 AM
Jun 2019

It’s bizarre.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
27. Biden keeping it alive? How about
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:01 AM
Jun 2019

Bookers 20 minutes on CNN, then others who are down in the polls jumped in. Not to mention 24 cable news reporting the same thing over and over.

Shades of Al Franken.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
28. Biden called for an apology from Booker. That's how he's keeping it alive.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:09 AM
Jun 2019

That's the point of my post.

This is communications strategy 101... don't get into a tit-for-tat on something like an apology. Booker's remark was stupid. But, Biden shouldn't have dignified it with a plea for him to apologize for being offended. Now everyone is being asked about apologies. It has become absurd.

And Franken. Oh, please.

Franken would not invoke segregationists to make a point. This has nothing to do with Franken. Franken's issue was brought about by photos of him seemingly cupping a sleeping soldier's breasts.

I guess there is a common thread between the two, though. The issues were their own making, but everyone else gets the blame for the repercussions of stupid remarks and acts.

What Biden said isn't what a candidate is 2019 should be saying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
30. You heard the conversation?
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:13 AM
Jun 2019

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I doubt very much that Biden would demand an apology compnsidering he is the ultimate peacekeeper.

Please do not pee on my leg with a made up story like that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
33. Biden did ask for an apology.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:27 AM
Jun 2019

Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden defended his remarks about working with segregationist senators and fired back at rival Cory Booker.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/06/20/joe-biden-says-cory-booker-should-apologize-senate-segregationists-civility-ac360-vpx.cnn

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
39. No, Biden said he did not need to apologize
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:47 PM
Jun 2019

Booker could apologize to him. He said that in public.

I have no idea what they said on the phone but Biden is no Trump. He called Booker. That was after Booker spent 20 minutes on CNN dissing Biden in public. He really owes Joe an apology.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
41. The cnn video that I provided at the link has the words Cory should apologuze to me coming out of
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 04:59 PM
Jun 2019

his lips. Unless they were interviewing his twin, he said it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
40. The pile on is the same.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:48 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,283 posts)
29. If Biden had apologized to Booker he would have killed the story
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:09 AM
Jun 2019

He didn’t, so the story lives.

Biden initiated this, and in saying Booker should apologize he made it a bigger story. Then he calls Booker and that was a flop too. His ineptitude in this wholly avoidable self-inflicted wound saga makes my head hurt.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
31. It gives me a headache, too.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:15 AM
Jun 2019

And, it's getting tedious to follow as it gets more complicated.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
32. LOL
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:16 AM
Jun 2019

No chance of that while the cameras are rolling.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

meow2u3

(24,745 posts)
34. I think Booker was off base because of the fallacy of presentism
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 12:03 PM
Jun 2019

There seems to be this attitude of presentism, especially on our side of the aisle, in which presentists judge the reality of the past, even as recent as 20-50 years ago, by 21st century standards.

You can't apply 21st century norms to the reality on the ground in the 20th century.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
38. Bookmarked the link to explanation of this concept. Wow. I learn something almost everyday
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 01:11 PM
Jun 2019

at DU which helps balance out my anger at running into arguments I consider riddled with fallacies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FloridaBlues

(3,993 posts)
35. Some candidates just want more attention got to get higher than 4-8 % in polls
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 12:23 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Biden and Democratic Riva...