Sanders to give speech defending 'democratic socialism'

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

The speech on Wednesday at George Washington University will address how “democratic socialism is the only way to defeat oligarchy and authoritarianism,” according to a press release from his campaign.

Sanders “will make the case that a strong grassroots campaign based on these progressive values is the only way to confront oligarchy and authoritarianism and defeat Donald Trump,” the release states.

The speech comes amid an intensifying debate within the Democratic Party about how to best take on Trump in 2020, with moderate candidates pushing back on a slate of progressive policies such as “Medicare for all” and the Green New Deal.

(snip)

"Democratic socialism to me is about creating a government and an economy and a society that works for all, rather than just the top 1 percent," Sanders said at a town hall in April. "It means ending the absurd inequalities that exist today."

(snip)

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/447574-sanders-to-give-speech-defending-democratic-socialism

[Loki Liesmith]

1. Oh boy

[Kahuna7]

13. You said it...

[brush]

20. Yep. He keeps chewing on that bone. He needs to let it go. Socialism...

even with the adjective "democratic" in front of it still reads as "socialism" to the majority of voters and it's a non-starter.

You'd think he'd have learned that by now and talk instead of being a social democrat like in the northern European countries—highly regulated and taxed but robust CAPITALISM which provides a strong safety net for its people—unversal healthcare, free college, less income disparity, etc.

He's using the same script as before which didn't work four years ago. He is, to his credit, not bashing the "Democratic Party establishment" as he did last cycle, but it's early yet.

[dalton99a]

2. Good for him. More people need to be educated on the different flavors

There will be a test after the lecture

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Democratic Socialism is not Social Democracy.

It's just not.

[MineralMan]

3. Well, that ought to work out real well.

Focus on the socialism, Bernie. People will just eat that up, no doubt.

I see lower poll results for you, Senator Sanders, as I peer into my crystal ball.

[George II]

4. Been there, done that....

[MineralMan]

5. Well, if he's determined to fall below the 15% cutoff,

I can't think of a better way to proceed. It's a good way for Elizabeth Warren to gain and reach that 15% level. She and Senator Sanders appear to be competing for the same supporters.

Everyone running has to be looking at that 15% mark, because unless they reach it they get no delegates and will have no impact at the convention. Right now, only Biden and Sanders are over that mark, and Biden's +12 or more, depending on which poll you're looking at.

Sanders is grasping at straws right now, trying to stay afloat. I advise caution for him, or he may slip under Warren permanently in this campaign. She is doing better all the time, and may just attract enough of that group of voters to push Sanders under.

[Doitnow]

9. Well, if Bernie said in APRIL that government should work for all, not just the few, who

is sounding like him NOW? Don't get me wrong. I really like Warren, too, but Bernie is still the talk of a whole lot of the new younger candidates. They are all talking about the same things that Bernie set in motion. Some younger people have the same affliction as rump---just take a look at most of the people in his cabinet and Senate who go right along with him.

[MineralMan]

10. Well, OK, then...

[JudyM]

11. I like Warren too, but Bernie cleared the path for her by raising these issues to the foreground.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. Warren said she's "a capitalist to her bones."

[brush]

17. Perhaps you've forgotten that in 2015 most progressives were urging...

Warren to run for the 2016 nomination as she was the Dem most prominently championing progressive ideas. She declining and Sanders, the second choice, took up the mantle.

She decided to run in this presidential cycle and is again becoming the first choice for many progressive voters.

She's no johnny-come-lately in this regard. And she's a Democrat not an independent who becomes a Dem to run for president.

[uawchild]

12. Courage of his convictions

You make excellent points.

It's clear that Sanders isn't going to get the 2020 nomination.

I admire Sanders for how strongly he has worked on the issues, but my concern at this point in time is reducing the apparent animosity between Sanders' supporters and his detractors.

I don't think we can afford, as a party, to needlessly alienate Sanders's supporters.

I like your tone on this compared to other posts. Basically, if Sanders want to discuss democratic socialism, let him.

There is no need to mock the man.

He's only impacting his own campaign.

Cheers!

[MineralMan]

14. I have no interest in alienating anyone's followers.

My interest is in making sure that people understand how this all works, so they can make appropriate voting decisions.

I think Senator Sanders is doing something that will hurt his chances. But, he's the candidate, so what he does is up to him. How well he does, though, is up to the voters.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. +1

On all of it.

I don't vote until June so have pretty much zero say in the eventual nominee - my opinion doesn't count. I don't think Sanders will be on the ballot at that point, but I give him credit for standing on his beliefs.

[Honeycombe8]

6. The answer, my friend, isn't spittin' in the wind...the answer's not spittin' in the wind. nt

[Uncle Joe]

16. I will loan you my handkerchief after the speech.

[comradebillyboy]

7. Go ahead and shoot yourself in the foot Bernie!

I really don't think Americans are clamoring for socialism. Actual socialist states haven't remained democratic for long. Too much compulsion involved in nationalizing private assets.

[murielm99]

8. If you have to explain,

you are going to lose. People will walk away from hair-splitting explanations.

[left-of-center2012]

15. "... creating a government and an economy and a society"

So he'll replace our government and economy and society
with a socialist government and economy and society ?

IMHO, the average Democrat and American does not want to walk down that path.

[Nanjeanne]

19. Funny you used that gif . . . since Danny is a supporter of Bernie!

[left-of-center2012]

21. "Funny you used that gif "

They have an equal chance of being elected.

[Demsrule86]

42. I don't want a socialist replacement, another sort of dictatorship.

[lunamagica]

18. Good...

[colsohlibgal]

22. Much Ado About Not Much

It is just a more equitable sharing of the pie.....FDR’s “New Deal” was pretty popular, Eisenhower built the Interstate Highway System using top tax rates well over 70%. Two pretty popular examples of Democratic Socialism.

Maybe people prefer Orange Baby giving huge tax breaks to billionaires who don’t need it.

[Loki Liesmith]

23. That's not democratic socialism

What you are describing is social democracy.

Democratic socialism is using the levers of democracy to seize the means of production.

[uawchild]

24. "seize" or perhaps an eventual, gradual transformation?

Last edited Sat Jun 8, 2019, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)

The terms democratic socialism and social democracy have considerable and significant overlaps on practical policy positions, although they are often distinguished from each other. Policies commonly supported by democratic socialists and social democrats include some degree of regulation over the economy, social insurance schemes, public pension programs and a gradual expansion of public ownership over major industries.[22] Partly because of this overlap, some political commentators use the terms interchangeably.[23][24] The difference between the two is that social democrats support social democratic positions as practical reforms within and to capitalism and as an end in itself whereas democratic socialists ultimately want to go beyond social democratic reform and capitalism and advocate systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

I am more the social democracy type of guy myself, but I prefer not exaggerate the actual position of democratic socialists. lol

Your mileage might vary.

[crazytown]

25. Rather than self interest, individuals serve the collective,

that is the heart of socialism. not me, us

[Loki Liesmith]

30. "Seize" is the classical Marxist term

Last edited Sat Jun 8, 2019, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

If it sounds negative that’s because it’s become negative to modern ears.

[crazytown]

36. carpe diem

[Kurt V.]

26. Good. any linguist will tell you language is a living thing.it changes and grows.

[qazplm135]

28. Perplexed

Why not just talk about what your proposed policies are versus trying to redefine a label?

Again it tells me he doesn't really expect to win, but is trying to move the overton window.

[JI7]

29. he can't

anytime he is asked about it he is unable to answer

[MrsCoffee]

32. And a little icing on top

with book sales.

[Uncle Joe]

37. Bernie

is not "redefining," he is defining his views in regards to democratic socialism, in the final analysis that's all that matters.

Bernie is most definitely still speaking of policies and issues.

Bernie wants more than a win, he wants a national transformation.

[qazplm135]

43. and?

Do you really think folks are going to say OHHHH THAT"s what democratic socialism is, well, now I'm totally fine with socialism!

Spoiler alert...they ain't.

And yes, he wants a "revolution" but that's not happening.
Nothing is getting "transformed." He's not leading a revolution.

He'd be better off with subtlety and focusing on getting elected THEN trying to move the country via legislation and the bully pulpit as opposed to trying to Pied Piper the country his way in an election where he's tied for second in Iowa with two other people.

[Uncle Joe]

44. Yes

being the answer to your question by a 71.48% margin but it would pertain to Bernie's definition of what democratic socialism means to him.

[qazplm135]

45. lol

the fact that you apparently think that secretly 72 percent of the country are really democratic socialists is...humorous.

And no one cares what it means to HIM, it's about what it means to voters.

And they will stop after they hear the word socialism.

[Uncle Joe]

46. I

never said that, I said "yes being the answer to your question by a 71.48% margin but it would pertain to Bernie's definition of what democratic socialism means to him."

Most everyone cares what the definition means to the candidate, the meaning to the candidate is paramount to the ultimate meaning to the people or it should be.

Now many in the corporate media conglomerates don't care, this is true, they would rather maintain the power of frame.

The challenge to Bernie will be to reach above and beyond the corporate gatekeepers to get his message and point of view across to the people despite constant barrages of one sided propaganda stock full of straw men.

[qazplm135]

47. oh stop

there are no corporate gatekeepers somehow blocking Bernie's message.

[Uncle Joe]

48. The

six corporate media conglomerates have no inherent, institutional financial/power conflicts of interest, in regards to being against many if not most of Bernie's message and policy proposals, is that your belief?

https://www.morriscreative.com/6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america/

I'm not suggesting there aren't many brave, conscientious journalists in the profession.

[qazplm135]

49. what does that have to do

with blocking his message. He has rallies, he gets interviewed, he has debates, he has a plethora of ways of getting his message out just like all the other candidates.

If he fails, it's because he failed or enough people didn't want what he was selling, not because corporations stopped him.

[Uncle Joe]

53. I

never said "blocking" that was your word, I said "the power to frame" as in framing the terms and putting out "constant barrages of one sided propaganda stock full of straw men."

[qazplm135]

54. lol

it's always someone or something else.

[Uncle Joe]

55. No,

but seriously taking on the powers that be on behalf of the people certainly increases those chances.

[MrsCoffee]

31. Then he's already losing.

If he has to go on the defense and explain, he might as well just go home.

[highplainsdem]

33. Desperation move, IMO. He's losing supporters to Warren, is hoping to turn this into an ideological

crusade where he's the only candidate on the right -- socialist -- side of history.

I don't think this will help his campaign.

[comradebillyboy]

34. It's pretty good for Warren though.

[SKKY]

35. Well, this is gonna go over like a fart in church...

[Drunken Irishman]

38. This is why I think Bernie's wheels are spinning in the mud...

If you have to go to this great of length to defend your ideology, it means you're losing the battle. It doesn't matter how he frames it - the perception is already out there. Sanders is fighting an uphill battle trying to convince a great deal of Americans that he's the good kind of socialist and not the socialists whose countries are in complete chaos right now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. In the 1980 primary Ted Kennedy made a speech at Georgetown defending traditional liberalism.

Easier sell.

[Blue_true]

57. Ted was a much better speaker. nt

[Politicub]

50. Cool. Looking forward to it.

So far, the definition has been kind of squishy.

It’s great and all to say it is creating a government that works for all and such. But the devil is in the details.

I’m also interested in seeing how he addresses democratic socialism as an ideology.

[Blue_true]

58. Good points all. His DU supporters seem to not really know where he stands.

It is easy to talk free college, income inequality, but the method for getting there matters.

[crazytown]

51. Please proceed Senator

[BeyondGeography]

52. Socialism is a loser

Progressive capitalism is the term you’re looking for, if you want to have a shot at running this here American thing.

[Blue_true]

59. I agree. nt

[Uncle Joe]

60. How long are we going to allow the Republicans to control the narrative?

[brooklynite]

61. The response then was "it's not socialism..."

The response today (according to Bernie) is "no, it's DEMOCRATIC socialism..."

Do you see a difference?

(here's another difference: FDR and LBJ won national elections)

[Uncle Joe]

62. Today's response is better.

Social security and Medicare are popular and much needed socialistic policies, however both could be improved and strengthened.

Should Bernie or any other progressive candidate for that matter allow the Republicans to argue that popular policies are socialism and thus inherently evil without defining precisely what said candidate actually views their own ideological personal perspective as, does nothing but cede the battle field and allows him/her to be defined by their opponents.

This allowing of the Republicans and their corporate media conglomerate allies to dictate the narrative with no strong counter argument makes even incremental improvement to popular social programs exceedingly difficult.

[brooklynite]

63. Just my 2c, but you don't seem to be convincing a lot of people here...

...and I'm not seeing a path for Sanders to convince a lot of ordinary voters.

[Uncle Joe]

64. Time will tell

whether Bernie's message withstands the powerful forces arrayed against it.

Bernie nor I ever had any illusions this would be easy.

[brooklynite]

65. Know what WOULD be easy?

Stop saying socialism.

Promote and defend the social democratic policies. unless you're an ideologue there's no value in insisting that they MUST be labeled as socialism.

Western European democracies provide all of these social services in conjunction with a robust capitalist economy. None of them insist that they be called socialist.

[Blue_true]

56. Should be interesting in many ways. nt

[nolabear]

66. He's giving the GOP a whole lot of ammunition there.

Why he’d play into the hands of the perception they’ve manipulated for years is beyond me. He sounds as though he thinks if you just explain your POV people who’ve been taught you’re the devil will say “OOOHHHHH! Never mind then.”

I can get him supporting principles he believes in but using terms they’ve polluted isn’t wise.

[GulfCoast66]

67. I really seems to me many of Bernie's supporters unintentionally disrespect the man.

He has called himself a socialist his entire life. And he knows perfectly well the meaning of the word.

Democratic Socialist support socialism gained thru democratic means.

I hope in the first debate someone ask him flat out, “do you support the eventual, democratic taking of ownership of large industries by the public(government). As far as I know he has never been asked that question.

His answer will resolve all doubt. But unless he answers a solid immediate ‘no’, if he tries to nuance the question or actually says yes, his campaign is over.