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Undecided 40%
Joe Biden14%
Kamala Harris11%
Elizabeth Warren11%
Pete Buttigieg8%

Thu May 16, 2019, 08:58 AM

 

Harris knocks Biden on crime bill: 'It did contribute to mass incarceration in our country'

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) knocked Joe Biden on Wednesday after the former vice president said the 1994 crime bill he helped write did not lead to mass incarceration.

"I have a great deal of respect for Vice President Joe Biden, but I disagree with him," Harris, a former prosecutor, told reporters in New Hampshire.

"That crime bill, that 1994 crime bill, it did contribute to mass incarceration in our country. It encouraged and was the first time that we had a federal three-strikes law. It funded the building of more prisons in the states. So, I disagree, sadly."

Biden, who was a senator from Delaware for decades, was instrumental in pushing for the crime bill, which critics have said led to a spike in incarceration, particularly among African Americans.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443871-harris-knocks-biden-on-crime-bill-it-did-contribute-to-mass-incarceration?fbclid=IwAR1FYpOq9KQEDCEe8YfSir8ySuRlhoDCcDCbmGyt1rgUIfo2qm_-VZiZkFM
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Reply Harris knocks Biden on crime bill: 'It did contribute to mass incarceration in our country' (Original post)
Autumn Thursday OP
DownriverDem Thursday #1
Autumn Thursday #2
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #4
Autumn Thursday #5
highplainsdem Thursday #132
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #134
highplainsdem Thursday #135
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #137
George II Thursday #19
Autumn Thursday #21
George II Thursday #49
Autumn Thursday #51
George II Thursday #63
Autumn Thursday #65
George II Thursday #73
George II Thursday #129
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #152
George II Saturday #171
lapucelle Saturday #163
Autumn Saturday #173
lapucelle Saturday #177
lapucelle Saturday #175
melman Thursday #56
George II Thursday #61
NYMinute Thursday #100
Nuggets Thursday #40
Autumn Thursday #44
Nuggets Thursday #46
Autumn Thursday #50
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #76
LanternWaste Thursday #105
George II Thursday #58
Nuggets Sunday #183
JonLP24 Sunday #197
Autumn Sunday #198
Cuthbert Allgood Thursday #8
loyalsister Thursday #74
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #110
loyalsister Thursday #111
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #117
loyalsister Thursday #128
InAbLuEsTaTe Thursday #131
sheshe2 Saturday #180
dalton99a Thursday #3
Polly Hennessey Thursday #6
Cuthbert Allgood Thursday #7
Autumn Thursday #11
Polly Hennessey Thursday #36
treestar Thursday #114
BlueWI Thursday #146
napi21 Sunday #186
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jalan48 Thursday #23
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lapucelle Saturday #165
Autumn Friday #159
George II Friday #160
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George II Saturday #169
sheshe2 Thursday #151
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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:03 AM

1. Why are you so negative?

 

Could it be because of who you are supporting? Going negative is not going to win anyone to your side.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:08 AM

2. I've decided to post articles about candidates that I like. You should try it.

 

I think Kamala is right on this, if you disagree you should post something proving she's wrong.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #2)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:12 AM

4. Kamala's 100% right on this...good for her bringin attention to the issue of criminal justice reform

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:16 AM

5. The Lady is sharp, that's for sure. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:11 PM

132. See this thread. The incarceration rate had been rising sharply since 1970 and may actually have

 

slowed a bit after the 1994 bill:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122066
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #132)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:21 PM

134. Thanx for that. Hasnt Hillary also repudiated the tough on crime provisions of Joe's '94 Crime Bill?

 

Thought she had... though my memory could be faulty.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #134)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:28 PM

135. Hindsight is perfect. There were some good things about that bill, like the ban on semiautomatic

 

assault weapons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

which I think most Democrats would say we need again.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #135)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:30 PM

137. Agreed!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #2)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:58 AM

19. So which do you like, Biden or Harris?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #19)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:04 AM

21. Harris is in my top 4, Biden isn't on my list, neither are about 23 others. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #21)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:11 AM

49. Well, since there are 23 total, that's a short "top 4".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #49)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:19 AM

51. Since as of May 13, 2019 there are 244 Democratic candidates who have filed to run

 

for president, my list isn't as short as you think.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #51)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:01 PM

63. Filing isn't running.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #63)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:03 PM

65. Yeah, go with that George.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #65)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:18 PM

73. Thanks for the encouragement...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #51)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:41 PM

129. So which three of the remaining 220 are in your top four?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #51)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:11 PM

152. I have a personal Top-10 list... both Harris and Biden are on it, but...

 

so far, I put Kamala far ahead of Joe for many reasons, including that reported in the OP.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #152)

Sat May 18, 2019, 10:45 PM

171. But don't forget, your #1 (at least here on DU) VOTED for "that reported in the OP"!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #51)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:16 PM

163. Yeah, go with that Autumn.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #163)

Sat May 18, 2019, 10:49 PM

173. I intend to. Keep your donut.

 

Try them with this. Bye bye
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #173)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:16 PM

177. I hope you'll reconsider Kocklobar.

 

I prefer fancy bottled water.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #163)


Response to George II (Reply #49)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:30 AM

56. How could a top 4 be any longer

 

than four?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to melman (Reply #56)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:00 PM

61. You didn't get it....

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #49)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:19 PM

100. Not everyone took AP math in school nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to Autumn (Reply #2)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:43 AM

40. Bernie voted for it too. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Nuggets (Reply #40)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:51 AM

44. Sanders has always been careful to point out that he saw the law as a compromise

 

to combat violence against women and he has regularly stated his concerns with mass incarceration. Biden, on the other hand, has always defended his role in crafting the 1994 crime bill. Big difference there.

"I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill, but one part of it that I vigorously support is the Violence Against Women Act. We urgently need the $1.8 billion in this bill to combat the epidemic of violence against women on the streets and in the homes of America."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #44)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:03 AM

46. Yeah yeah

 

We’ve heard all of Sanders’ excuses.
He voted for it , the results were still massive incarcerations including black women.
It’s a lame excuse.

I guess black women don’t count ?

Oh and tht Violence against Women Act? That was Biden’s. But I love the newest attempt to give Sanders credit while simultaneously bashing Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Nuggets (Reply #46)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:15 AM

50. Yeah it was Biden's, the whole thing was. Bernie supported that part so he voted for it.

 

Ask Biden if black women counted in 1994 and the effect the bill had on them. I notice you offer no defense of Biden and the bill. Just bashing Sanders.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #50)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:27 PM

76. Apparentlty, Joe can do no wrong. So, blame Bernie... for EVERYTHING!!

 

It's nothing new!! (Should be used to it by now.)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #76)

Thu May 16, 2019, 04:05 PM

105. Ironically, your own corollaries are just that.

 

Nothing new, indeed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #44)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:35 AM

58. Yes, there are "compromises" when he votes for or against bills, which is why....

 

....he voted against the Brady Bill five times, for guns on Amtrak, for protecting gun manufacturers, against the Magnitsky Act and Russia sanctions. He even had a "compromise" when he was the only Senator to miss the vote on Deripaska back in January.

Go to youtube and search for Gilda Radner's "Roseanne Rosanadana" character.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #2)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:05 AM

183. Bernie voted for it too and his excuse that it was to protect women is hogwash

 

Or he didn’t care about AA women. So which is it?

At the time if Dems dared not go after drug dealers they were slapped with the soft on crime labels by the GOP and all of the complicit news networks.


Presentism is not a good debating strategy, it makes the arguer seem naive... uninformed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #2)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:28 PM

197. I hate these candidate signatures because your motives are questioned if you post something with

 

a Sanders signature. There is a reason why I'm a Sanders supporter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #197)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:33 PM

198. I thought of doing like some of the other Sanders supporters and just go with undecided

 

or trash this group. But I decided to hell with that, I'm a Sanders supporter and will stay a Sanders supporter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:19 AM

8. I look forward to you posting this on every OP negative to a Dem candidate.

 

You'll be busy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:22 PM

74. I don't understand how is it negative when he considers it an accomplishment

 

Usually candidates want to celebrate the decisions and contributions they view as positive.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #74)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:07 PM

110. Yes, Joe stands proudly by his crime bill, even though, as Kamala correctly points out

 

it contributed significantly to the increase in incarceration rate, especially among minorities.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #110)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:40 PM

111. Bill Clinton admits it

 



Addressing a convention of the N.A.A.C.P. a day after President Obama called for a wholesale overhaul of the criminal justice system, Mr. Clinton embraced the idea. He agreed that the law he enacted in 1994 played a significant part in warping sentencing standards and leading to an era of mass incarceration.

“I signed a bill that made the problem worse,” Mr. Clinton said. “And I want to admit it.”


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/16/us/politics/bill-clinton-concedes-his-crime-law-jailed-too-many-for-too-long.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwiE3bWdgaHiAhURLa0KHQ36CZIQFjAGegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw05DS-POJkoGwawD2eBhVXy&cf=1
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #111)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:17 PM

117. I admire Bill's honesty per the quote you posted... I don't think Joe denies this either.

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #117)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:39 PM

128. That's probably true

 

Sadly, I have not seen any expression of regret. And, denying that it was a contributing factor suggests that he is okay with the consequences.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #128)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:04 PM

131. Joe is politically smart... no doubt he realizes he needs to come out with an apology...

 

and splain how he's evolved on criminal justice issues. I expect he will do so soon.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #131)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:52 PM

180. What about BS?

 

He voted for it.

But one thing that's seldom noted — or only acknowledged as a footnote in stories about the 1994 law — is that Bernie Sanders, Clinton's opponent in the Democratic primary, supported the 1994 crime law too. And while Clinton wasn't in a position to vote for the bill as first lady, Sanders was in Congress — and he did actually vote for it.


https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Autumn (Original post)


Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:16 AM

6. Will not make a scintilla of difference

 

no matter how hard you and Kamala gnash your teeth. The people who like Joe and believe he will make a great president won’t change their minds. So gnash away.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:19 AM

7. So no discussion about whether he was right or wrong on that decision?

 

Hint: he was wrong.

But, seems like a discussion is in order. And saying "people will still like him" kind of looks like a deflection about discussion difficult things.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #7)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:32 AM

11. I think this and her remark that Biden would make a good running mate,

 

and you just know she was talking about the VP spot shows that she is kicking her campaigning into high gear and talking off the gloves. Playtime is over.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #7)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:36 AM

36. Having a discussion is fine.

 

Have a discussion about the issue. My point is: I don’t think it will harm Joe. Kamala hammering away at Joe is not helpful to her. It certainly makes no difference to me. I believe Joe will make a great president.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #7)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:54 PM

114. there are plenty of people to think he was right

 

crime was the big bogeyman back then.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to treestar (Reply #114)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:17 PM

146. Some of the people who would be voting Democratic

 

are still in jail behind that bill or disqualified due to a felony conviction.

The discussion of how to go forward is timely on wedge issues like this that ramp up racial division.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Jay Inslee

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #7)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:13 AM

186. The dramatic increase in incarceration was a bad effect, but you need to go back to when the bill

 

was being debated. One of the reasons it was proposed was the severe discrepancy in judgments by different judges. I'm sure I don't remember everything about this bill, but there was broad support to do something about equalizing sentences, especially repeat offenders. Some punishments, for the same crime, were probation while others were 20 years! There was no consistency between judges. That had to be fixed. Unfortunately, one of the side effects was on minorities. I don't know if the same increase applied to white perps, but that was one of the intents of the bill. That's where the 3 strikes came from.

I'm not defending Joe for being wrong, but parts of the bill fixed some things that needed to be fixed. I hope the parts that were bad are fixed as well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:22 AM

9. If it wasn't for cooking and baking I would be washing socks.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:23 AM

10. What you call gnash your teeth I call posting about one of our strong candidates speaking

 

a whole lot of truth. Is this your first primary? Any candidate who is running to win the nomination is going to talk about the other candidate's records to highlight their differences. That's how a primary works. Harris is running to win and I think that's great. YMMV
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #10)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:07 AM

23. Many seem to think it's a cheerleading contest.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #23)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:13 AM

25. People seem to fear discussion about certain candidates.

 

I think that they must realize that some of our candidates have very soft support and fear any discussion of a candidate's record can result in erosion of that support.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #25)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:17 AM

29. The ostrich approach. Hold our hands over our eyes and ears.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #29)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:34 AM

33. Yep and keep repeating the same mistake. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #29)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:47 PM

102. Yes, that does seem to be the pattern... I understand their fear though!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #25)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:23 AM

53. So I guess we can look forward to all the anti Sanders OPs being gone now that it appears

 

you are soooo negative to post something Harris said about Biden.

I look forward to that!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #53)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:31 AM

57. Don't count on it. Now that Harris has taken off the gloves and is taking on Biden

 

there will be more because.... Bernie!!!!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #23)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:11 PM

98. Agreed. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #10)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:42 AM

39. No, it's not my first rodeo.

 

I think she is a good senator, is smart, and can certainly handle those goofball republicans. Do not believe she would make a good president. On the other hand, Hillary would have been a superb President.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:55 AM

45. A lot of women would make a superb President. Women like

 

Harris, Warren, Kocklobar, Gabbard, Williamson, Gillibrand.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #45)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:49 PM

130. Are any of those in your top four?

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=121261
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #130)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:34 PM

140. Tired of reading George? I clearly listed Harris as being in my top 4. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #140)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:36 PM

141. Is Kocklobar in your top four? She must be one of those 200+ that we never hear about.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #141)

Thu May 16, 2019, 08:37 PM

145. Oh!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #145)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:30 PM

165. Willie Felix Carter or maybe Bernie...

 

...Korn.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to George II (Reply #141)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:44 AM

159. You seem curious George. Kocklobar? Haven't heard of that one so that's a big no.

 

Kocklobar sounds like something you would go to the ER for. I'll put them down on the list with Biden
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #159)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:54 AM

160. Really Autumn?

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=121320

45. A lot of women would make a superb President. Women like

Harris, Warren, Kocklobar, Gabbard, Williamson, Gillibrand.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #160)

Sat May 18, 2019, 10:42 PM

170. Kocklobar must be somewhere on the list of the 224 who registered, but still hasn't filed.

 

Shame she didn't make the short list of four.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to George II (Reply #141)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:41 PM

166. If I hear someone say he's a Bernie supporter, I'm going to ask if he means Mayor Korn

 

or the fiery socialist/independent/democrat.

Who am I to assume Bernard Korn isn't on anyone's short list?

http://www.travellinesexpress.com/bernardkorn.htm

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #166)

Sat May 18, 2019, 10:07 PM

169. Hah! I wonder if he's friends with Ben & Jerry?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #45)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:08 PM

151. Gabbard? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Autumn (Reply #45)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:00 PM

176. Klobuchar? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Autumn (Reply #45)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:28 PM

178. Who or what is a Kocklobar?

 

Autumn

45. A lot of women would make a superb President. Women like
View profile
Harris, Warren, Kocklobar, Gabbard, Williamson, Gillibrand.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #178)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:52 PM

181. Apparently it's "something you would go to the ER for."

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #181)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:56 PM

182. Sounds pretty painful.

 

ER STAT!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #178)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:10 AM

184. A Kocklobar/Buttigieg ticket sounds sort of titillating.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to betsuni (Reply #184)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:13 AM

185. Oooh.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:16 PM

153. Regarding who would make a better President, I'd rank Elizabeth ahead of BOTH Kamala and Hillary...

 

in that order.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #153)

Sat May 18, 2019, 11:50 PM

179. Of course.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:37 AM

12. Thought this was a primary race...Kamala has every right to bring up Joe's tough stand

 

on the criminal justice system. Good for Kamala and other primary candidates who are bringing this important issue to light and are trying to reform the system.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #12)

Sat May 18, 2019, 10:46 PM

172. Perhaps it's time people bring up BS's tough stand on the criminal justice system, too?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Polly Hennessey (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:28 AM

55. Sounds like a cult.

 

"The people who like Joe and believe he will make a great president won’t change their minds."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #55)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:09 PM

97. Same could be said of many candidates and trump as well. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #55)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:56 PM

104. People should remain open to other possibilities and see the positive and negative of ALL candidates

 

including their preferred candidate. I'm willing to point out where I may disagree with Bernie from time to time, and give other candidates a tip of the hat where they deserve it.

I do find it interesting that some ONLY find fault with Bernie, never giving him credit for ANYTHING, while their preferred candidates seemingly can do no wrong. That does seem a bit odd if you ask me -cultish? I'm not sure I'd go THAT far - as no Democratic candidate on the list of 23 can possibly be ALWAYS wrong, nor can they be absolutely perfect.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #55)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:32 PM

122. Do we really want to go there on Biden with Bernie running?

 

We have people claiming the DNC cheated Bernie out of the 2016 nomination.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to treestar (Reply #122)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:59 PM

147. No doubt the hardcore Bernie supporters are cult-like.

 

I was just replying to a response that I felt was as well. Nobody should ever be that tied to a candidate in a primary with so many options that they refuse to change their mind.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)


Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #13)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:49 AM

17. Except your own three paragraph article "proving" it didn't, admits it doesn't have the records

 

to prove anything. Except for a cool graph with red lines for estimates that must mean something or another. I think Kamala Harris knows a thing or two about incarceration.

We don’t have formal historical records of incarceration rates by race, but there are plenty of good estimates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #17)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:53 AM

18. Withdrawn

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:39 AM

14. I believe it also provided for..

 

militarization of police forces and asset forfeitures.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to cannabis_flower (Reply #14)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:05 AM

22. When I read what she said I started looking up information on that crime bill. I never

 

realized the actual harm that bill did. I found this earlier but it doesn't mention militarization of police forces and asset forfeitures. I'm going to look for more on that later.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/reports/2019/03/26/467486/1994-crime-bill-continues-undercut-justice-reform-heres-stop/

The 1994 Crime Bill Continues to Undercut Justice Reform—Here’s How to Stop It

The legacy of the Violent Crime Control Act and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, better known as the crime bill, has re-emerged in the national debate around criminal justice reform and public safety.1 Many consider the crime bill—which is best known for dramatically increasing harsh penalties for drug crimes, especially mandatory minimum sentences—to be one of the cornerstone statutes that accelerated mass incarceration.2 But the law’s negative effects did not end there. States and localities were incentivized through a massive infusion of federal funding to build more jails and prisons and to pass so-called truth-in-sentencing laws and other punitive measures that simultaneously increased the number and length of prison sentences while reducing the possibility of early release for those incarcerated.3

It has been well-documented that these policies were failures.4 Their cost to society came not only from the staggering amount of taxpayer dollars that were invested in enforcement, but also from the disproportionate incarceration of a generation of African American men in the name of public safety. Moreover, tough-on-crime measures—specifically longer incarceration sentences—have had at best a marginal effect on improving public safety.5

Elected leaders today are attempting to unwind some of the most harmful effects of the crime bill through criminal justice reform measures. As part of that reform effort, a number of cities have pursued public health models and community-based strategies alongside innovative policing approaches. However, the effectiveness of those efforts has been and will continue to be muted because the machinery that the crime bill created and preserved has never stopped churning. The same funding streams that overwhelmingly support enforcement activities over proven preventative and restorative solutions continue to this day—albeit with tweaks around the edges. States still look to build new jails and prison facilities,6 even as crime rates remain near historic lows.7 At the same time, Congress continues to advocate for new criminal statutes and higher criminal penalties, even as it proposes to lower some mandatory minimum sentences.8

Before considering what additional reforms are needed to fix a severely broken criminal justice system, U.S. elected leaders must first stop supporting the very mechanisms that caused the failure in the first place. Borrowing from the field of medicine, lawmakers must embrace the notion of “first, do no harm”—or more accurately, “do no more harm.”9 This issue brief spotlights four problematic tough-on-crime policies exacerbated by the crime bill that remain in place and continue to undermine reform efforts. Only when these destructive policies are reversed can the rebuilding of the criminal justice system truly take root to prevent harm in the future.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #22)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:16 AM

27. It isn't just this bill though, he voted for all of them and...

 

wrote some of them... Here's a more detailed article on what his record on this is:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/08/biden-crime-mass-incarceration-police-prisons
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Autumn (Reply #22)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:40 AM

38. It provided money

 

for local police, prosecutors and equipment.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:46 AM

15. Its called vetting, If Joe couldn't take it, he would not have jumped in, and disagreeing with past

 

policy is not considered being negative. Joe is not a Savior. He is going to get vetted on his past policies and votes, I think you should get used to it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #15)

Thu May 16, 2019, 04:24 PM

108. Joe couldn't care less about this post.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #108)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:34 PM

125. Joe doesn't care but his supporters sure do.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #15)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:16 PM

133. Joe understands vetting, for sure, given the two past Democratic primary races, 1988 & 2008, he lost

 

after getting vetted. Given those prior losses, Joe certainly is ready for this, his third, primary election and these kind of questions that he surely had to know would come up. Based on his political expertise and experience, Joe surely has answers that were prepared WAY in advance... why he's not coming out with those answers swiftly is a bit of a mystery to me.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:47 AM

16. Oh I forfeiture might not have been this bill...

 

but it did do this : Elimination of higher education for inmates

Forfeiture was this bill: Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 and he was in the Senate where it passed on a voice vote.

It also increased federal penalties for marijuana.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to cannabis_flower (Reply #16)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:20 PM

118. Didn't realize that about weed... that's not good!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:03 AM

20. Good for Harris to point out.

 

Sanders and Biden supporting the crime bill should be a tough pill for everyone to swallow.

I appreciate the direction the party and our candidates are taking when it comes to criminal justice reform today.

An interesting piece of information is that the husband of Kamala's current campaign chair was also instrumental in writing and passing the 1994 crime bill. Tony West.

Our two top polling candidates both supported the bill.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:36 AM

35. Fascinating.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #35)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:50 AM

43. It is a bit fascinating how our two current leading candidates...

 

both supported this legislation. I really wish it was a non-starter at the time. It's impact has generated so much pain.

But both of our leading candidates have very solid history in most all areas. It's no real wonder why Biden is doing so well considering his stature and his steadfast support in the fight in ending violence against women. Then there is Sanders with his consistent rhetoric about economic justice. Makes sense that they could support something like the crime bill yet are really doing well today.

The Harris connection I mentioned isn't really a connection. More like a fun "it's a small world" kind of fact.

Always glad to deliver a laugh, for whatever reason. The world needs more smiles.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #43)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:46 AM

60. A little off topic but who are you keeping a forgiveness chart for? Yourself or Jesus?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #60)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:03 PM

64. I don't have a forgiveness chart.

 

Forgiveness comes easy for me.

I'm really not big on talking religion. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #64)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:07 PM

68. Have you looked at your sig line? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #68)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:10 PM

69. I think it's funny. It's a Clinton quote.

 

Not everything is to be taken literal. I can't imagine reading that and taking it literally.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #69)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:15 PM

71. You just never know.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #71)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:29 PM

77. That is true. But I think an overwhelming number of people would.

 

Can you imagine the chart Clinton would have!



She is such a wonderful person.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2019, 08:33 PM

143. I didn't realize that about Tony West. He's also the husband of Kamala Harris' sister, too.

 

Guess we should write off all three, eh?

To think we still have about 9 months of micro-examining the records of the 23 candidates before the first caucus. It's going to be exhausting.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #143)

Thu May 16, 2019, 08:35 PM

144. I'm a big supporter of two out of the three.

 

I’ve sent bot Harris and Biden money. I truly believe either would make a great President.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:08 AM

24. Harris is wrong, again

 

The bill, Biden insisted, “didn’t generate mass incarceration,” pointing instead to state criminal justice systems that he says are responsible for more than 9 out of 10 prisoners in the United States.

https://www.abqjournal.com/1315844/joe-biden-steps-up-the-retail-politics-in-new-hampshire.html

Harris needs to run on her record,
and stop tearing down Biden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:23 AM

30. I would love to read your rebuttal but unfortunately everything there is redacted

 

except for the question you have to answer about games. Too much of a hassle. The 1994 crime bill is a big part of Biden's record. In a primary candidate's do bring up the other candidate's records. That's how primaries work and you know it. I've never seen a primary where each person running sit's around all day singing the praises of the candidates they are running against for the nomination like people seem to want .
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #30)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:35 AM

34. "singing the praises of the candidates they are running against"

 

I didn't say that.

She needs to run on her own record.
Like her proposal to jail parents of kids who play hooky from school?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #34)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:37 AM

37. She is running on her own record and she's running against his. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #34)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:30 PM

120. +1 trolls on her page

 

do the same thing to her - question every choice as prosecutor. Not sure she wants to go there, really.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:37 AM

59. Not only that, but since when is "encouraging" law?

 

Is she trying to shift the stink she's getting for her incarceration rates?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #59)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:50 PM

86. Could be a strategy to deflect - she was on the receiving end

 

for months, by critics...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #86)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:00 PM

88. I know. I do think the criticism she has received is unfair..

 

But still, it sounds ridiculous to say that law "encouraged....."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #88)

Thu May 16, 2019, 04:28 PM

109. I completely agree...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:05 PM

67. Where did you get in the article that Harris tried to tear down Biden?

 

She plainly said in simple English that she "disagreed" with him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:09 PM

91. The legislation offered state financial incentives to impose stricter sentencing laws

 

"Among other things, the legislation offered states financial incentives to impose stricter sentencing laws and enacted a three-strikes rule that imposed a mandatory life sentence if a person with two or more prior convictions was found guilty of a violent crime.... "

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443871-harris-knocks-biden-on-crime-bill-it-did-contribute-to-mass-incarceration?fbclid=IwAR1FYpOq9KQEDCEe8YfSir8ySuRlhoDCcDCbmGyt1rgUIfo2qm_-VZiZkFM
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #91)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:46 PM

149. Also contained Violence Against Women Act; established drug deterrence courts; allocated

 

Billions to crime prevention programs; had strong gun regulations; strong penalties for hate, civil rights, and sex crimes; mandated a sex offender registry...

Law abiding victims of the crack epidemic, a scourge which resulted in increased violence in many black neighborhoods, were demanding a “crack down” and crime clean-up in their communities. They wanted an end to revolving door policies that no sooner took offenders away than put them back on their street corners or in crack houses next door where landlords managed by remote.
They wanted an end to drive-by shootings, gang activity, and law enforcement neglect. The feeling was that they suffered from a lack of police presence and willingness to get involved because their safety was not seen as a priority. They felt, and it was true, that ninety five percent lawful residents were being victimized by a lawless five percent.

Biden is right not to denounce all parts of the 1994 bill. He does see the racial disparity in sentencing that came out of the intense focus on crack vs. cocaine. I don’t know if he has yet addressed three strikes and you are out. Some adverse effects did come in at the state level, as Harris should know.

Also controversial are the list of crimes demanding the death penalty.

Still, Biden should NOT renounce the bill in its entirety.

I think it is incumbent upon the voting public to review the bill, as well as to understand the extreme conditions that gave rise to it.

The question of mass incarceration both concerns the bill and goes to other justice system developments outside of it, as well as brings up the issue of economic motives which created a corrections industry.

For a review of all parts of the bill, to fairly assess Biden’s response, read : Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

Meant this in reply to OP! Sorry. Don’t know how to reroute.








If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:57 PM

115. +1 and I thought they signed that pledge

 

and if they weren't there to vote on it themselves, they cannot prove they would not have voted for it, too.

These types of things only prove Biden has been around so long and knows the government inside and out, a very good qualification for following the Dotard.

Stick with why we need to elect you, not why we should not elect the others. Jebus, save it for the Dotard, who really is a disaster in the office.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to treestar (Reply #115)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:05 PM

116. Stick with why we need to elect you, not why we should not elect the others.

 

Agreed !
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:14 AM

26. Ending Mass Incarceration: Ideas from Today's Leaders

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/ending-mass-incarceration-ideas-todays-leaders






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #26)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:28 AM

32. Thanks for that link! Nice list of authors, almost all of our candidates.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:17 AM

28. As an undecided voter

 

As an undecided voter I find myself gravitating toward the most positive candidate with the most positive supporters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #28)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:25 AM

31. Yeah me too. Still looking for one and so far the only one seems to be Andrew Yang, nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:43 AM

41. Was Buttigieg even born then?

 

The crime bill was passed an awfully long time ago.

Not really relevant for this campaign.

What is relevant is this: where do all the candidates stand on criminal justice reform TODAY????

Let's focus on current issues.

Kamala Harris made some questionable decisions in her past also. Let's not attack her for that.

Of course it's easy for Bernie to attack since he's never done anything except give speeches and raise money.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Vidal (Reply #41)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:07 AM

47. I think it's very relevant considering the harm it's done. As far as I know he still supports it .

 

There is a terrific link about ideas on ending mass incarceration authored by almost all of the main candidates, well except for yours, posted above. Post # 26. I'm going to read it later.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287121200#post26

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #47)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:22 AM

52. Well, Autumn

 

You seem very determined to make this a "thing" to hurt Biden, but I don't think it will work, no matter how hard you try.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Vidal (Reply #52)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:26 AM

54. Well Vidal, the only thing that can hurt any candidate are their own actions. It's called vetting,

 

like it or not it happens to all of them. I posted this because I like the fact that Kamala has stepped up her game and is actually campaigning against the "front runner". She came out fierce on this. I admire a fighter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #54)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:43 PM

82. It makes no sense . . .

 

to attack Biden for a position he took 25 years ago.

Vetting would be to analyze all the positions they are taking right now.

Of course, it's easy to attack Biden because he has such a long career in government, where he has done a lot of things.

Not so much with Sanders. He's never really accomplished anything that I can see, so there is nothing to attack. His main accomplishment that I see is giving speeches attacking real Democrats. Of course, this is why most Democrats don't like him. And he has no chance of winning the Democratic Party nomination.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Vidal (Reply #82)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:11 PM

92. The crime bill of his that did so much harm wasn't a position. And off to the deflection

 

bashing of Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #92)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:33 AM

187. But Bernie voted for the bill. The only deflection here is handwaving Senator Sanders' vote away

 

“because reasons.” I expect Harris will criticize both Sanders and Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #187)

Sun May 19, 2019, 09:35 AM

188. She should and I hope she does. If you want to start an OP about Bernie voting for it you should

 

do that. I'm not a delicate little flower when it comes to facts. He did vote for it. If Kamala mentions it I will probably comment on it and I won't be the one to bring up... But Joe! “because reasons.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #188)

Sun May 19, 2019, 09:55 AM

189. No I am not going to start an OP like that. I am only posting positive OPs about our candidates

 

Besides in the historical context many AA leaders were in favor of the bill. We see now in hindsight that it was mistaken. I think those who voted for it then now understand that.

I personally think what we need to do in this forum is boost up all of our candidates. They all share the same set of core values, and the same policy goals.

They may have different plans how to achieve their goals, but I honestly don’t care about that enough to tear them down over that.

Trump is literally destroying our Country. All of our candidates seek income inequality, civil rights, good jobs for working people. And they are going to protect the most vulnerable of our citizens.

Always so good to talk with you Autumn. Love your posts.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #189)

Sun May 19, 2019, 10:24 AM

190. I think that my OP was a positive post. I don't have any problem with her bringing this up.

 

I very much respect her opinion on it and her taking on Biden made my day. I really hope to see her and the other women do a lot more of it. Liz, Kamala, Tulsi, and Williamson are like a breath of fresh air in a field of the usual smoke. I have stated I don't like Biden due to his attitude on recent events but that's my opinion, not a teardown and I'm not going to make up lies to post about him. I've praised him on some things in the past. I just think he's not what we need at this dangerous time. Thanks for the kind words, those are rare around here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #190)

Sun May 19, 2019, 10:57 AM

191. I personally see Biden and Harris as allies.

 

All our candidates are allies imho. FWIW my top 4 candidates now are Harris, Mayor Pete, Warren, and Biden.

I heard Biden speak in Cedar Rapids. It was fiery and calm where it needed to be and very uplifting.

Going to hear the others as soon as I can.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #191)

Sun May 19, 2019, 11:02 AM

192. They all are allies but as far as campaign allies I see Kamala more aligned with Liz or Pete.

 

I would like to see Inslee break out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #192)

Sun May 19, 2019, 11:15 AM

193. I'd be quite happy w your three/my four as President/Vice Presidential candidates in the GE

 

Hope that makes sense, such as:

Warren/Harris
Biden/Harris
Warren/Buttigieg

Etcetera, any and all combinations/permutations

Inslee does seem good, will do more research. have you done an OP about him? If so I would love to read it!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #193)

Sun May 19, 2019, 11:27 AM

194. Here's the one I did on Inslee. Seems not a lot of people care about the most important issue

 

of our time. Bernie's taxes ya know.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128733004

I also did one on Beto

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128751379


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #194)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:13 PM

195. Thank you for both!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Vidal (Reply #41)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:29 PM

119. +1

 

Why are we arguing about a 20-year-old bill? I was an adult then and don't remember details. Probably a few younger people never heard of it before. And whether it "caused mass incarceration" is certainly arguable. All I recall from the 90s was crime was the big thing. It was the Mueller Report of that Era. All those crime shows started coming on and 24 hour news started, giving people the impression crime was everywhere and increasing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Vidal (Reply #41)

Fri May 17, 2019, 06:07 AM

158. There are lots of people still in prison

 

sentenced because of thus bill to stunningly long terms.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:49 AM

42. 25 years ago, pagers were a thing.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #42)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:09 AM

48. On could say that in the last 25 years pagers have evolved into cell phones. So that's a thing too.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #48)

Thu May 16, 2019, 04:09 PM

106. One would then be wrong. Two wholly separate technologies

 

brought together only to create awkward and inaccurate equivalencies.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #106)

Thu May 16, 2019, 04:10 PM

107. It's not as awkward as you want it to be. The need for a pager went away with the cell phone. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:00 PM

62. Title would be more accurate if it said Harris disagreed with Biden on effects of crime bill

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #62)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:04 PM

66. She didn't just disagree. She flat out called him out on it, very politely but she went there.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #66)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:11 PM

70. Harris said she disagreed. You are saying Harris is calling Biden a liar.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #70)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:29 PM

78. Quite the stretch with that accusation against me there. I never said she called him a liar.

 

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) knocked Joe Biden on Wednesday after the former vice president said the 1994 crime bill he helped write did not lead to mass incarceration.

"I have a great deal of respect for Vice President Joe Biden, but I disagree with him," Harris, a former prosecutor, told reporters in New Hampshire.

"That crime bill, that 1994 crime bill, it did contribute to mass incarceration in our country. It encouraged and was the first time that we had a federal three-strikes law. It funded the building of more prisons in the states.So, I disagree, sadly."



She called him out on him saying it did not lead to mass incarceration. Very politely.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #78)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:35 PM

79. " To challenge the truthfulness or genuineness of:"

 

"Call out - definition of call out by The Free Dictionary"

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/call+out

So you said that Harris "called out" Biden which means that Harris said that Biden wasn't truthful and thus a liar.

Your comment:

"She flat out called him out on it"

If one is not being truthful, then one must be lying. It's one or the other.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #79)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:56 PM

87. Who do you think is being truthful? Her or him?

 

He says it caused no harm, she says it did. "She flat out called him out on it". Very politely. No one used the word liar but you. I agree with her.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #87)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:07 PM

90. I cannot say as my knowledge on the issue is about zero.

 

This thread is the first time I've heard about it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #90)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:07 PM

95. I got to wondering how it was that on the DU an intelligent woman of color can fall behind

 

Joe Biden an"old white man" when for months on end we have heard endlessly "no more old white men". So I started to pay attention to Harris to see what was going on. When I saw what she said I started looking at the crime bill, I had no idea what it had done but I know without a shadow of a doubt with her background in law when she says that crime bill caused harm that crime bill caused harm.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #90)

Fri May 17, 2019, 12:52 AM

155. Kamala should know, given her criminal prosecution background.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:16 PM

72. Kicked and recommended.

 

Thanks for the thread Autumn.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:22 PM

75. It was a bad bill for sure but I wonder if Biden would have pushed for it had he known

 

how badly it would have targeted African Americans at the time. If Biden could have peered into the future at that time, I doubt he would have ever supported such a bill as that one. I'm not letting him off the hook on it, but I do have to think he wouldn't have done it if he had known ahead of time how it ended up working out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:37 PM

80. That's the bill that Bernie Sanders voted for, isn't it?...nt

 

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #80)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:39 PM

81. Yes, but it's been explained how pure his vote was.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #81)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:01 PM

89. +1 nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #81)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:55 PM

168. Haha.. BS' vote was "pure"!?

 

I hadn't heard that..

Sanders Campaign Says He Voted For Crime Bill Due To Weapons Ban That Wasn't There

The House version of the bill, which passed the House that April and which Sanders has been criticized for voting for when he was a representative from Vermont, did not include an assault weapons ban.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christophermassie/sanders-campaign-says-he-voted-for-crime-bill-due-to-weapons
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #80)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:46 PM

84. Yes it is indeed that bill that he voted for, that's not in question. Biden says his bill

 

caused no harm, much of the rest of the field and a shit ton of others say that it did cause harm, including Kamala Harris.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #84)

Thu May 16, 2019, 08:14 PM

142. BS voted for it.

 

Biden says his bill

caused no harm, much of the rest of the field and a shit ton of others say that it did cause harm, including Kamala Harris.


Is there a quote where he, Bernie, admits it did cause harm and regrets his vote supporting it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:44 PM

83. You can scratch her off his list of VP choices

 

I knew this would be a war
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Baclava (Reply #83)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:47 PM

85. I think she scratched him off hers.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #85)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:00 PM

96. Is Tim Kaine available? lol

 

After the bloodbath of the primaries, he might be the last one standing
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Baclava (Reply #96)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:11 PM

99. I hope not.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Autumn (Reply #85)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:43 PM

112. That's hilarious, all right, considering the polls.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Baclava (Reply #83)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:13 PM

93. Strategy-wise, his team will have to select the best fit.

 

It might be Harris, Klobuchar, Warren or another dynamic woman in Congress (that has not even been mentioned, as yet).

But his decision will have to be carefully thought out so as not to diminish his chance of winning, in the general.

Hopefully he makes as wise a VP pick, as the one Obama made...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Baclava (Reply #83)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:28 PM

94. Reagan had George H. W. Bush as his VP

 

Despite what Bush had said about Reagan's trickle down economic plan.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Baclava (Reply #83)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:31 PM

121. They've forgiven worse

 

Biden himself made a couple of his famous gaffes during the primary.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baclava (Reply #83)

Fri May 17, 2019, 01:33 AM

157. Tim Kaine was one of the first Big Names to Endorse Obama and led to the other Senators Endorsing

 

OBama Over Clinton.

things can get ugly but good people like Hillary and i would include Kamala Harris and Joe Biden among them are not going to hold grudges and in the end will do the right thing for the country.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:22 PM

101. This will make Harris's numbers go down

 

and she won't be in the running for VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:50 PM

103. Over 20 years ago being seen as weak on crime got you kicked out of office...

 

I'm not making excuses, but that was a huge thing in those days. You could not be weak on crime. Period.

Bill Clinton wrote about it in his book.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #103)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:32 PM

139. +1000000000000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:53 PM

113. She should tell us why she should get the nomination

 

Not why Biden should not. How do we know how she would have voted had she been there?

It was meant to crack down on crime. More people in jail was the point. Or at least more people deterred by the bigger threat of jail. That doesn't seem to always work.

Then again, crime rates have gone down and there might be an argument it worked.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to treestar (Reply #113)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:32 PM

123. She has. And saying you disagree with someone is not bashing them

 

Hell, I think I disagree with her on this. Not because she's wrong about the negatives but because that bill also had a huge number of positives as well, including money for rehabilitation that otherwise Republicans would never have voted for.

Friends can disagree. Even rivals can disagree respectfully. That's what's happening here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #123)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:36 PM

126. I've already seen her facing disagreement on many of her decisions as prosecutor

 

And defended her, saying it was her decision to make, it was long ago, and the current basher doesn't know how they would handle it. One is about a truancy law, another is about not prosecuting Mnuchin and there can be thousands of others. Dating Willie Brown ages ago has brought some vile comments from right wing trolls. These two need to not add to this regarding each other.

They all need to tell us why they are the one, not why the others aren't. They are all vulnerable. Who is perfect? Nobody.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to treestar (Reply #126)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:00 PM

150. While I largely agree with you...

 

you can stake out a position and say it is different than other candidates in the race. I don't think that's beyond the pale.

The problem comes when a candidate attacks others hypocritically. Like Sanders attacking Clinton over her rhetorical support for the 1994 Crime Bill that he himself voted for.

I don't even see this as an attack, really. Kamala is trying to make clear that while she is a prosecutor, she is one who understand that the system is abused by racists.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to treestar (Reply #113)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:29 PM

136. Kamala HAS spoken to why she should get the nomination...that & callin Joe's crime prevention

 

policies into question, however, are NOT mutually exclusive. Indeed, she's spoke specifically on her own tough on crime stance involving child truancy.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #136)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:31 PM

138. No she should not do both

 

and none of the others should do it to her either.

It creates a lot of negativity that leads to voter fatigue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:32 PM

124. Mass incarceration had already quadrupled in the 24 years before that bill. In the 15

 

years after it passed, the mass incarceration rate doubled, which obviously wasn't the improvement needed, but was actually a slight slowing.

See this thread for a Brennan Center article:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122066

If people aren't aware of how fast mass incarceration was increasing BEFORE 1994, they might think it started with that bill.

But it didn't.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #124)

Thu May 16, 2019, 10:44 PM

148. This definitely puts things into perspective...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #124)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:26 PM

164. The arguement isn't that the bill started mass incarceration but that...

 

the bill did contribute to it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Kamala Harris

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:38 PM

127. I thought this was a tough row to hoe for her?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:55 PM

154. As long as Biden is a clear winner over trump in the polls

 

the rest is just noise. We, registered democrats, will vote for whoever has the best chance to beat trump, period. Unfortunately, pseudo democrat, BS, is screwing the primary by not letting actual democrats like Warren and Harris to get ahead in the polls. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of registered democrats and independent voters are not socialists, they are capitalists. Biden, Warren and Harris are fighting hard save capitalism while BS is working hard to destroy it. All current true democrats running in primary are progressive capitalists by ideology.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Autumn (Original post)


Response to Autumn (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 09:43 AM

161. 2016 NBC News analysis: Black leaders supported the 1994 crime bill

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/analysis-black-leaders-supported-clinton-s-crime-bill-n552961


Please read the entire article. Black leaders were also very concerned about crime then, and they didn't have the benefit of hindsight years after the bill was passed.



And please see the other replies I posted in this thread, and this separate thread

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122066

about mass incarceration having quadrupled already between 1970 and 1994. The 1994 bill didn't increase that trend and in fact might have slowed it slightly.

Anyway, before hammering Biden on this bill, people should put it in context.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #161)

Fri May 17, 2019, 10:43 AM

162. In fact, most black people supported it. As a POC, I can tell you that this was a very popular bill

 

in the AA community.

In the eighties, crime was rampant and we were desperate for help. Our voices were finally heard and the Clinton administration came up with a bill that we were satisfied with. It was laser-focused to address a lot of of our concerns and it resulted in us feeling safer on our streets, which was the primary objective.

Years later, human nature is now presenting itself in the form of "Monday morning quarterbacking"...
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:52 PM

167. It's a hit, but an unfair one. Michelle Alexander's 'The New Jim Crow' shows the whole scene that

 

Clinton, congress and the Congressional Black Congress were living through was such that they ALL felt they had to "get tough on crime."

The country was awash in crack and cocaine. The Congressional Black Caucus ITSELF urged Clinton and Congress to do something to deter drugs everywhere.

The end vote on the War On Drugs Act only had 11 no votes. It was pretty much close to unanimous. So THAT bill that contributed to mass incarceration was equally the work of both parties.

Overall, it's not what Harris is saying, but what she's NOT saying that is relevant here.

She cannot in good faith foreground Biden's vote as "instrumental" when the whole Democratic Party of that time was behind Clinton's new urge to show Repubs that he and his party weren't limp wristed limousine liberals, but would be tougher on crime than Repubs would be in the drug war.

Harris' highlighting Biden is campaign stuff. But I don't take it seriously.

No one in the context of those days, when she was just a girl, was "instrumental" but Clinton and his legislation staff.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Jay Inslee

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 10:50 PM

174. She's right that the 1994 crime bill

 

Supported by Biden and the junior senator from VT was terrible in terms of mass incarceration.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:26 PM

196. Go Harris!!

 

She is in my top 4 for a reason.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Bernie Sanders

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