So what is the alternative to holding my nose and voting Hillary?
Two years ago I attended a debate among candidates for my District's Congressional seat. A Republican, a pretty progressive Democrat, and a Green Party candidate. I was so impressed with the Green Party candidate that I approached him to ask him why he wasn't trying to work and run within the Democratic Party. He was about my age. He looked at me for a second (I suppose now that he was framing his response as opposed to offending me by saying something like "are you naive?" and said because the Party would never support him as a candidate for Congress. He then proceeded to explain how he'd been active as a precinct member for many years before finally realizing that the Party was moving right not left and was never going to change as long as money drove the system. He basically said what Bernie says: the system is corrupt -- and to be successful within the Party system, you have to be a "team player" and "play ball". He said it was obvious to him that the Democratic Party was in bed with corporations and money, controlled by what he called Republican lights, and was no longer committed to truly progressive principles. So he left and joined the Green Party.
This primary season has, as I said, been a real eye opener. The Party is clearly corrupt as is our government. They have been purchased and are controlled by "money". Bernie's campaign has done a wonderful job at making this abundantly clear to anyone who has been paying attention.
So you asked, what is the alternative? I ask: do you truly care about your country? I am convinced that holding my nose and voting simply enables the status quo. What is the status quo? Well, it's really not very good. Sure, we make progress on social issues, to a degree, but we continue to trend to the right on economic and electoral issues. The Democratic Party simply is not committed to making the kind of fundamental changes that we so desperately need today. "Slowing" the flow to the right is not fixing the problem; and I'm frankly not convinced that Hillary would even slow the flow to the right when it comes to key economic issues. (I won't even bring up the problems of imperialism here.)
The alternative for me is to support real change. I will either be voting for Jill Stein (Green Party) after doing some more research, or writing Bernie in this fall.
Am I concerned about Trump? Yes, but my adult children have given me broader perspective on that and the SCOTUS issue. Actually, they have convinced me by example that voting for Hillary is the wrong thing to do. You see, one of them, my second child is gay. Another, my daughter, the youngest is a female. They are quite adamant that "equal rights" will be meaningless in 20 years if we don't break down the corporate hold on America's governance to actually fix our most important problems now today: global warming, a divided world, and income inequality. So social issues that affect them personally in significant way are moot as they see it if we don't make the significant changes today. My third child, the oldest, is a bit more radical. He just says we gotta break the system to fix it; a Trump presidency would do that.
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I understand that some here will take exception to and tell me how short sighted and self-absorbed this is. But I see it as exactly the opposite. So please respect my views and opinions and I will respect yours.
I'm convinced we have all considered this at least once, no matter how fleetingly in the past two weeks.
Whether Obama tries to buy him out or not. It would be bad for everyone involved if Bernie leaves now. Because simply people will be so pissed they won't show up to vote. I'll vote, but I'm probably gonna have to draft Bernie Sanders like we tried with Elizabeth Warren except Bernie would be willing to run. Elizabeth wasn't. As for fools who leave PMs in my box saying cya l8r don't need ya enjoy the GOP. Sorry to burst their bubble but I'm still voting Democrats in in Congress. Generally the Liberal ones but Independents which is what most people are now probably won't. Think for the first time since the 1800's there'll be a Party change in the two party system. DNC is being phased out for what frankly should be the Liberal Party although I think there is one. not really sure...
They'll just toss it. Maybe consider someone who is actually on the Ballot. JS?
Not in my life time. But then again they seem to toss PROVISIONAL ballots all the time. This isn't one. This would be a real ballot.
But these days they're all scanned, except for caucuses. Scanners don't pick up write-ins-and unless it's too close to call to where they HAVE to look at the ballots, they won't be counted.
and Pro Choice more Pro Choice than me O_O , I don't see the Conservative friends I know voting for him. They'd rather vote for Bernie. The irony here is Hillary has actually said she's willing to do big compromises on Abortion WTF? Yeah doesn't surprise me. Who's more Conservative. Hillary, but Conservatives won't vote for her. Greatest Irony in the world.
in my case I suspect that my state will go red as it normally does. My vote for President is most likely a non issue. Votes down ticket are important here in the Senate race and for Governor. If the polls in late October show the race here is close or on a national basis is close, then I will re-evaluate my position, but I suspect that will not be so.
So I will concentrate on down ticket races and local issues and tune out the National race.
I live in a dominantly blue State, so my vote probably won't make a difference. But I will definitely be voting for at least one down ticket Dem, maybe two but I'm still not convinced about the second one. We'll see.
And to be perfectly honest, if I had the sense from polls that my vote might make the difference between Trump and anyone else becoming President, I would probably reconsider my current position. But that's all -- reconsider only. It will depend at that point on how the D Party and Hillary proceed in dealing with the Bernie movement at this point and how Trump "performs" between now and then.
Between now and 8 November I'm going to see how events play out. I am 99% convinced I won't be voting for Clinton. I didn't buy off on her in 2008; I felt she was too much of a DC insider and my instinct was correct.
Yes, I'll be leaving DU shortly. It's been made very clear that Sanders supporters are not welcome. I'll miss it, but time to move on.
Just hope JPR has a more user friendly format soon.
leave, but everyone must choose their own path. I am simply going to trash the words Trump, Hillary & Clinton and that should leave some things to read on other issues, such as environment, labor and the economy. See you at JPR along the way.
"I am wounded, but not yet slain
I'll lay me down and bleed awhile
Then rise and fight again."
first time I read it was in the novel 12 O'Clock High....
It's been one that has helped me through some difficult circumstances along the way...
of young voters and hardcore liberals alike. Given "the math" that Blue states will vote Blue and Red States will vote Red there is no real reason to turn out in either type of state. HRC supporters tell us they don't need us, but will blame us if they lose. Red States will be redder since liberal voters see no point, since the vote is already decided thanks to gerrymandering and the media narrative. Blue states will shift to Purple since HRC is the presumed victor, so again, no point in voting. Red voters will turn out in droves because they hate HRC more than Obama, hard as it is to believe. This will bolster their candidates and solidify their hold or even flip seats.
The choice in November is the Orange Menace or the Bush/Clinton Dynasty.
I keep saying the obvious and no one seems to be listening. They jump process. That's what these dog whistles mean. In red counties that means that corruption is at a high bar because neo-liberals just play along with whatever nuttery goes on around here.
If you want to beat them, you will have to expose that corruption. Because it has gone on for so long, people just accept a system that has been eroding the Civil Rights of those who are expecting local government to follow due diligence. Due diligence is the first thing that is sacrificed where neo-liberals are reaching across the aisle to "get things done."
The corruption of corporate money has moved the Democratic Party far to the right of where it was when I registered 40 years ago. Trying to effect change from within to direct the Party in the direction before it was hijacked is futile. Holding our nose and voting for the lesser of two evils enables evil to remain in power. Many voters are choosing to stop the enabling.
Bernie Sanders is an easy name to get right. If they're going to rig it, let them rig it all the way.
been seriously considering it since voting 'glitches' and fixes seemed to pop up in almost every state.
I will not vote for Hillary. I will not be a Democrat after I vote for Grayson in August.
I think the Third Way has triumphed in their takeover of the Democratic party, and I won't enable any Third Wayers.
I cannot reconcile my hatred of the things Hillary has done, and policy she proudly stands for, with voting for her.
final straw for me. I reregistered as a Declines to State today. I will no longer belong to a corrupt political organization that suppresses the vote and decides before the first primary who the winner will be. Bernie has gotten nothing but a raw deal from the DNC whose mission has been bringing him to heel. Hope he takes his crusade for the 99% outside the party which clearly only represents the 1%.
Too many voted HRC for the wrong reasons. She's a woman and It's her turn. No attention paid to the issues. If you asked these same voters, Do you support neocon wars like in the Bush era? Fracking? Outrageous college tuition? A depressed minimum wage? Bad trade deals that screw over the American worker? ....the answers would likely be "Of course not." Yet that's what they voted for. All of it. It boggles the mind.
But he needed the Party in order to get any public visibility at all. Fortunately, he was selfless and courageous enough to make that choice knowing full well the Democratic Party would do everything in its power to suppress and squash "insurgency", including casting him as an opportunist, "ego-driven maniac", and now "villain".
Bernie won though. He accomplished what he wanted -- to awaken and inspire a dormant mass of concerned average Americans most of whom are currently left of Washington DC as a whole. He now has the visibility that he lacked as an Independent Senator from little, out-of-the-way Vermont. Bernie's not going away anytime soon, nor is the movement he recharged.
and the only reason for me now to vote in november is for recreational cannabis. that's it.
It was bigger than Clinton being the nominee -- it was really about seeing how the Party handled this election cycle. It was eye opening.
What has been seen...
He pulled the curtain back for all to see the horror behind it..
Think how much Trump is helping her. He is no idiot,
thus all this nonsense he spouts out is supposed to
make her look sane.
I believed for months that this was a deep Clinton
game, which was played on us, and I get more and
more convinced of it.
After the convention I will change to Green, and I
hope actually that their ranks increase due to these
what the rich and powerful do on a consistent basis. And it's not party...this is a Class War...the haves vs. the have nots. Pure and simple crosses all demographic and political spectrums. Bernie was for the Have Nots and the rest of the party was for the Haves...Establishment and SDs and DNC. Not to mention the MSM...they are the ultimate in Corporate Contrtol.
Social issues pale in comparison to the Monied Connected ... that's how it's rigged. And has been for a very long time...ever since the Bailout.
I hope this leads to an organizing period of candidates being willing or able to follow Bernie's lead. Now it's time to organize locally, since the Movement has become defined and has a leader. That's what was wrong with Occupy, IMO. I know its cool to be egalatarian, but it's not smart in this culture.
And have thought this for a while. This has been a carefully thought out plan. Unfortunately, just as in past elections, all the dirt will come out after the election when it's too late.
especially since it is known that Trump actually consulted with Bill about throwing his hat into the ring before deciding to do so. With the stuff that went on this Democratic primary season, we would be foolish to underestimate the Clintons in this regard.
I will likely be joining you in the Green Party.
who will cross Party lines to vote for her against Trump. They will carry her across the line, no need for liberals. That has been part of the plan since the beginning of the Turd Way.
He wrote glowingly about both Clintons during the 08 campaign. Got in on the birther action just a few years later to endear him with the fringe GOP folks, and I don't think anyone missed how he drove the conversation during the primary into absolute loonyville.
Add in a few winks and nods from the dnc to dissuade challengers from the left this time around (the narrative for the last 8 years was that this cycle would be 'hers'), and this is what we are left with. . Sad sad sad
and the Dems do not retake the House and Senate, she will accomplish nothing. She will not be permitted to appoint any judges and she will be under non-stop investigation and impeachment proceedings from Day One. Also, since she ZERO intent of taking any meaningful action on Climate Change, the future will be nothing but war, famine, floods, hurricanes, economic implosion and civil breakdown. Even if they retake one or both houses, the Vichy wing of the party will continue to work with the GOP to insure nothing gets done.
This was our last chance, and we chose poorly.
the present-day Rep Party will act like she's a communist coming for their guns. The whole shitload of crap that passes for a political system in this country is about to destroy itself, the environment is about to go tits up, and we get this boatload of assholes who will do NOTHING. NOTHING. As far as I can see, it's all over already. If Obama was the best we could do, we sure aren't going to do any better with Clinton.
The Green Party is looking pretty good to me, too.
frittered ithe opportunity away. I think Hillary would actually be very happy to work with a Republican Congress, especially on foreign policy. And, of course, it would all be to our great detriment.
in playing footsie with the R's. She's bad on fracking, pro big banks, endorsed by neocons, loves trade deals that screw American workers....In lots of ways, she's on their side. Won't the voters who gleefully voted for her because she's female be surprised when they discover they voted for a moderate (by today's standards) Republican....
be renewed after president obama said "no way" to land, water tables and watersheds and all life forms poisoned with deadly toxic oil spills and fires and sludge - sink holes - and earthquakes;
corporations will will grasp new opportunities to frack for any resources they seek. fracking will become rampant across the land - by eminent domain - because "she said we could - and because we can and we will".
if just those 2 things are allowed - the future of the unites states and the planet are doomed. our land, water, and air will be too toxic for agriculture or to live upon - every safety measure to ensure some measure of quality to sustain ourselves will be denied - instead, the global corporate <1% will completely control us - their water, their air, their land, their food.
with hillary, there will be no stopping them once the tpp and tpip are finally signed.
My quandary is whether to make a statement now by switching my status to No Party Preference, or waiting until after the general so I can vote for Stein as a registered democrat.
I agree with SadOldGirl, Trump and Clinton are working together.
I refuse to watch the Hillary-Trump Reality TV Show, directed by Bill Clinton.
What we are seeing is Reality TV, directed by Bill Clinton, who talked with Donald Trump prior to Trump's entering the race and reportedly encouraged him to get into it. Bill and Donny are working together to elect Hillary.
It looks like we really do have a Trump-Clinton race, so I'm going to try to develop new hobbies and give up on following presidential politics. I hate reality TV, and I'm convinced that's all a Clinton-Trump race is -- a reality TV show that ends with Hillary in the White House.
The more outrageous Trump is, the more he pushes people, who 2 years ago would have said they would NEVER vote for Hillary, into voting for her in the fall. It's the only way she can plausibly win, so that's the theater show Bill and Donald are producing.
I'm also convinced that the powers that rig the voting machines will do so on Hillary's behalf. She's the Establishment choice, by far. She's the one who will keep the Military Industrial Complex and Wall Street rolling along as usual, lining the pockets of the rich and powerful. The outcome is not in doubt.
I'm so certain of my cynical views that if Hillary wins the FBI primary and actually becomes the nominee, it won't be worth paying attention anymore.
I refuse to buy into TrumpFEAR. I won't be pushed into voting for the status quo, a status quo where half the people in the country couldn't handle an unexpected $400 expense, just because Trump is a blowhard clown. If Trump is the new Mussolini, what were the Clintons doing at his wedding? Why are the Trump and Clinton families buddy-buddy? Hillary did't attend the wedding of tens of thousands of other New Yorkers who got married while she was a Senator. Ruthless, greedy oligarchs hang out together, and I think it is ridiculous to be so afraid of Trump but pretend that one of his wedding guests is our savior.
I'll show up in the fall to vote for Jill Stein. I encourage people to vote for Jill, if she's on your ballot, rather than writing in Bernie. In California, a write-in candidate must file a form to be a write-in candidate in order for the ballots with his/her name to be counted. Bernie won't do that. so the ballots will just be thrown away as spoiled ballots. Better to give the Green Party a boost by voting for Jill, imho.
The system was not meant for me. The media, the establishment, Hillary's campaign, and Hill's supporters (here and beyond) have treated him so terribly. I'd never witness negative conduct and little integrity of this magnitude in my 35 years. He deserve my vote this Nov.. I'll carry his name on my shoulder and in my heart to Nov. and beyond with honor.
My original plan was that if the polls are close I would vote for Clinton in order to avoid a repeat of 2000. If the Florida polls are not close then I would vote Green.
But now I'm starting to think maybe I'll vote Green in any case. I know that the possibility of Trump winning is an enormous risk. But the status quo is not sustainable. The American dream is disappearing. The economic PTB do whatever they want with the cooperation of both parties. They succeed in this having the other 99% of Americans argue among themselves over abortion, gays, and guns. I know that social issues are very important but so are economics issues. I am tired of being told that I have to give up economic security in order to protect abortion rights and gay rights. Voting for a third party is risky, it could allow Trump to win. But maybe it is necessary to risk everything in order to break this pattern and restore the middle class. Maybe the situation is so hopeless that risking a leap into the unknown is our only hope.
I'm am still undecided, I may stick with my original plan. I hope Clinton can convince me that she is with me and not the banks.
Independents can vote in NC even in the Primaries. My sister in Charlotte is one and she voted for Bernie. I honestly don't know enough about The Green Party. Will have to do some research.
Woke up yesterday morning and changed to Green party both me and hubby.
I agree with the candidate you spoke to dem party has become repub lite.
The reason I didn't change to NPP is then my choice is to switch back to the same old tired parties and I didn't like how confusing it was for my daughter to ask for a dem ballot. She was by mail and wasn't informed on how so she got a ballot with no presidents on it, so she took it in and voted in person after I told her to ask for dem ballot. She didn't know how to do that by mail, and I didn't know to tell her how and I should have!
In November it depends on who is on the final ballot who I will vote for but it won't be Hillary or Trump. I am positive Hillary will make sure she wins here anyway so she doesn't need my vote.
I thought she squashed Bernie here until I started reading a bunch of stories that talk about how a lot were confused like my daughter and either didn't vote or got provisional ones.
Some say that is the campaigns fault for not explaining it enough. I worked grassroots on the campaign and most of us didn't really get it. We knew to tell NPP voters to switch but exactly how for mail in voters was not told.