Let's establish what is and is not a personal attack.

[merrily]

Hillary's claiming that Bernie has been lying about her (or anything) repeatedly is a personal attack.

Hillary's surrogates bringing up Bernie's religion on TV and radio over and over is a very low kind of personal attack (and, oh so, pre-JFK) and against the values set forth in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and many SCOTUS cases. http://jackpineradicals.org/entry.php?209-Democratic-Primary-2016-Will-religious-bigotry-work-this-time

Commenting on Hillary's age or appearance as has been done countless times to Sanders (though not by Hillary), would be a personal attack.

Hillary's saying that Bernie's proposals are unrealistic and unattainable is not a personal attack. It's false and requires nuanced rebuttal, but it's not a personal attack.

Bernie's saying that Hillary has received lots of money from the Rich and they just may expect some consideration in return is not a personal attack, again, true or not. That plutocrats have bought and sold Washington, D.C. and other countries so that society is not just to everyone is at the core of Sanders' campaign. if the Clintons exemplify that, American voters should know.

Please feel free to add your own examples.

[Lunabell]

1. I think he has shown a lot of restraint.

She deserves scrutiny.

[merrily]

11. Considering the level on which he COULD have run his primary campaign,

yes, there has been a lot of restraint, including about taking two years to comply with a subpoena and two years to comply with an FOIA request.

Apparently, though, the Clintons get a pass on things like that because they've been (gasp) attacked. Who the hell hasn't been attacked? If you run for President, you get attacked. It's not rocket science.

[Lunabell]

14. He attacks her record

and that is what should be done. I don't care about the emails, what she and Bill do in private or Benghazi. But I am concerned about her ties to wallstreet and the private prison industry. I am concerned about her fli flopping on important issues like DOMA. She was on the wrong side of history on the Iraq war too. Bernie has been right and not afraid to speak up!

[JackInGreen]

2. Do try and remember the rules Merri

Personal attacks are anything that doesn't support, adore, or glorify Hillary.
A fair fight is Hillary supporters running down the road with their hair on fire screaming 'COMMIE!!!' and then telling you that you've miss-stepped for trying to put their hair out.

[SoapBox]

5. LOLOL

And...Get in line! Change that "tone"!

[merrily]

10. Communism is potentially relevant to future job performance. False, but not personal.

But, yes, I am trying to remember things like rules and the distinctions between personal or job related.

This primary sure has muddled a lot of issues.

[dchill]

26. If you're not fawning, you're attacking!

[awake]

3. Just like her emails if Hillary does not want people to know about something then it's personal

And should not be shared.

[merrily]

7. Ouch!

[SoapBox]

4. They've burned through about every lie in the book...

I suppose they can try that he fathered a child...or that he's in the D.C. Madame's phone book but those wouldn't float.

I'm love'n the Net now as all their steaming piles get shot down so fast...it must make The Camp crazy...Opps, crazier.

Go Twitter!

[merrily]

6. Let's say he was in the DC Madam's phone book. That would be a personal attack, but

I would not care that much if it were true.

[dorkzilla]

8. The child thing was already done

I'm off to see if I can find the thread...brb...

ETA - here it is! I'm still SO grossed out that this was even posted....yes, they actually used the term "sugar shack".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7216566

[merrily]

13. Someone co-habited without being married in the 1960s? (Did the Clintons marry before having sex?)

Clear the room at once.

Yes, those are personal attacks, true or not.

[blm]

9. I didn't hear "Sanders is lying..." - I heard "Sanders' campaign lying..." and after 15yrs and

3 presidential primaries here at DU, I make sure to distinguish between what a candidate says and does and what campaign members and surrogates say and do.

Same with DU. I am not one to claim that every goofball thing said by a Clinton supporter here is an attack on all Sanders supporters (I do think what they post can be incredibly ignorant, insensitive, shortsighted, and unnecessarily hurtful).

It is stupid and ridiculous for some of those same Clinton supporters to broadbrush ALL Sanders supporters with some of the goofball things said by those posers claiming to be Sanders supporters here at DU.

[merrily]

15. Huh? Hillary Rodham Clinton shouted she was tired of Bernie lying about her.

And, if you make sharp distinctions between what Granholm and Brock and Bill say versus what Hillary says herself, I want to tell you about the stunning Charlestown bridge.

[blm]

17. You added 'sharp distinctions' to mock my position. I said I can distinguish between the two

and, especially, when it comes to their supporters here at DU. Perfectly reasonable position for anyone whose common sense and fairness compels them to show discernment.

I understand that is not what you want to hear, but, I cannot ignore logic and fairness in order to be a suitable cheerleader for some here.

[merrily]

19. What about your false claim Hillary never called Bernie a liar?

Posters who simply ignore every part of a reply that disproves their claims are not posting in good faith, IMO.

And yes, you did make a sharp distinction between what comes directly out of Hillary's mouth and what comes out of the mouth of even her paid surrogates. Did you think you'd made a fuzzy distinction? If so, why would a good faith poster cloud an issue?

I understand that is not what you want to hear, but, I cannot ignore logic and fairness in order to be a suitable cheerleader for some here.

Poster, please. All I ever "want" to hear is truth and, if I am lucky, some good faith analysis and discussion. Sometimes, that's mighty rare on DU, even in the Bernie Group.

[blm]

20. I clearly posted that I heard her say Sanders CAMPAIGN is lying...not Sanders IS lying....

Perhaps you missed that.

Or, perhaps you repeat that claim as if she did because you WISH it were true.


Clinton: 'I am so sick of the Sanders campaign lying about me'

Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-campaign-lies-221434#ixzz44y0xnebo
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[merrily]

22. I didn't miss a thing, thanks. The buck for REPEATED lies by a campaign stops with the candidate.

Same with repeated religious bigotry. Or repeated "racially tinged" comments.

If a candidate makes no attempt to stop or disavow it, the issue is clear for most sane people of good will.

Besides, she was not referring to anything Bernie hasn't said himself.

But, as always, I appreciate your heated, if incorrect, defenses of Hillary.

[blm]

23. Dig in, then, since that is your way. I prefer to be true to my sense of fairness and discernment.

Yes, even when I don't personally care for the person being treated unfairly.

[merrily]

24. Uh huh. Thanks for posting solely to "dig in" at me AGAIN and pat yourself on the back AGAIN.

Very becoming.

I've seen many of your posts here defending Hillary, super delegates, etc. When can members the Bernie Group look forward to all your posts praising and supporting Bernie?

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. He was a jew and a carpenter who wanted to throw out

the money changers. .......... wait, I get confused sometimes............ nevermind.

[merrily]

16. OK, I once heard a great explanation of that scene, but maybe it is for the religion forum.

Or maybe not.


Jews then believed it was a God-mandated duty to go to Jerusalem every year at Passover and sacrifice an animal in the temple, no matter where they lived at the time or how poor they were. So, Jews were coming in from all countries with all currencies, in order to obey God.

If someone lived near enough to Jerusalem, he could bring his own animal for sacrifice with him. Those who came a distance, however, had to buy an animal to sacrifice once they got to Jerusalem. In order to do that, they had to change their own currency into shekels or whatever. So, they were ripe to be gouged on the exchange rate. And that is why Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple--because they were all gouging people who, at least in their own minds, had no other option. You can so many principles of antitrust, undue influence, etc. in that story if you look at that way.

Now, the gouging bit is not in the Bible. But you can piece together everything else from things that are in the Bible. I think the gouging can be fairly implied. Why else would Jesus have been enraged by people performing a service needed by religious pilgrims in order to obey God?

Anyway, I thought it was a great explanation.

[Duval]

18. Interesting.

I've never read an explanation about this! Thanks, merrily.

[merrily]

21. My pleasure.

I don't have a lot of patience with people who make false claims about the contents of the Bible (as my cousin does), but the gouging on the exchange rate sounded pretty reasonable to me.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

25. Next OP should be - What's the difference between a personal attack and a lie?

[merrily]

27. I'm not clear what you mean. Bernie has not lied or made personal attacks. To the contrary,

Hillary has him to thank for taking her "damned emails" off the table--and that was not even a personal issue.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

28. No he hasn't - I'm talking about the f-ing Repulizards.

[merrily]

29. Jaysus. Different rules for Republicans. Lies, personal attacks, blatant bigotry, anything goes.

[Jim Lane]

30. To accuse a candidate of lying is not a personal attack.

For example, I've posted more than once that Hillary lied about her past support for the TPP and about her stated change of position. If she's going to make claims about her record, then it's open to others to point out when those claims are false.

To go beyond specifics and say something like "Hillary Clinton is an inveterate liar," however, seems to me to cross the line and be a personal attack.

[merrily]

31. Excellent point and excellent distinction! Thank you, Jim. nt