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Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:34 AM

Relax—Bernie’s Supporters Will Back Hillary If She’s the Nominee

The ones who are consistent voters already, probably. But the newer and more alienated ones that Sanders is attracting will probably just stay home.

http://www.thenation.com/article/relax-bernies-supporters-will-support-hillary-if-shes-the-nominee/

But if history is any guide, a mass defection of Democrats and Dem-leaning independents is the last thing anyone should worry about. We’ve seen this before and we know how it will play out.

Ironically, in 2008 it was Clinton supporters vowing to stay home—or vote for John McCain—if Obama became the nominee. At the time, that same HuffPo columnist warned that “balkanized Democrats could give the White House to John McCain.” That May, primary exit polls found less than half of Hillary Clinton’s supporters in Indiana and North Carolina saying they’d consider voting for Obama in the general election. Even in early July, after Obama had secured the nomination, only 54 percent of Clinton backers said they planned to vote for him.

Those self-described “PUMAs”—“party unity my ass”—may have stayed home by the dozens that November, but at the end of the day nine out of 10 Democrats supported Obama in an election that featured the highest turnout in 40 years. A similar dynamic played out with Howard Dean supporters in 2004.

<snip>

 If he doesn’t win the nomination, Sanders will endorse Clinton, urging his supporters to back her campaign. In all likelihood, he’ll actively campaign on her behalf. The Obamas, who enjoy sky-high approval ratings among Democrats, will also hit the campaign trail. And while Bill Clinton may be a liability in a primary fight, he remains a potent proxy against Republicans. The differences between the parties’ values will be clear.

So come November, Green Party candidate Jill Stein may pick up the votes of a handful of Sanders supporters in swing states, but the Democratic coalition is going to come out in force to stop Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. And that’s a good thing, because, as acts of political extortion go, “Bernie or Bust” is incoherent. We don’t just elect presidents, we elect around 2,000 people from one or the other party to serve in policy-making positions in the Executive Office of the President, and to head the agencies that make our government work.

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Reply Relax—Bernie’s Supporters Will Back Hillary If She’s the Nominee (Original post)
eridani Mar 2016 OP
ezgoingrl Mar 2016 #1
djean111 Mar 2016 #3
nxylas Mar 2016 #4
JDPriestly Mar 2016 #114
johnlucas Mar 2016 #14
MissDeeds Mar 2016 #15
marew Mar 2016 #65
swilton Mar 2016 #38
Freedom Bill Mar 2016 #56
agracie Mar 2016 #75
Freedom Bill Mar 2016 #94
BillZBubb Mar 2016 #105
Freedom Bill Mar 2016 #108
JDPriestly Mar 2016 #115
liberalnarb Mar 2016 #17
JDPriestly Mar 2016 #113
djean111 Mar 2016 #2
RKP5637 Mar 2016 #10
lmbradford Mar 2016 #70
merrily Mar 2016 #79
RKP5637 Mar 2016 #90
merrily Mar 2016 #91
RKP5637 Mar 2016 #92
Freedom Bill Mar 2016 #95
RKP5637 Mar 2016 #96
swilton Mar 2016 #39
djean111 Mar 2016 #40
marions ghost Mar 2016 #52
marew Mar 2016 #63
LiberalElite Mar 2016 #5
Mbrow Mar 2016 #6
Sherman A1 Mar 2016 #7
eridani Mar 2016 #44
Sherman A1 Mar 2016 #49
Shadowflash Mar 2016 #8
RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #9
restorefreedom Mar 2016 #11
Bernin4U Mar 2016 #23
Impedimentus Mar 2016 #31
restorefreedom Mar 2016 #34
ALittleBirdie Mar 2016 #12
Bernin4U Mar 2016 #24
marions ghost Mar 2016 #53
GoneFishin Mar 2016 #93
johnlucas Mar 2016 #13
PowerToThePeople Mar 2016 #16
Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #18
Mufaddal Mar 2016 #19
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #28
merrily Mar 2016 #81
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #97
merrily Mar 2016 #99
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #101
merrily Mar 2016 #103
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #104
merrily Mar 2016 #106
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #107
merrily Mar 2016 #109
TM99 Mar 2016 #86
merrily Mar 2016 #80
jillan Mar 2016 #20
blackspade Mar 2016 #22
eridani Mar 2016 #45
marions ghost Mar 2016 #54
merrily Mar 2016 #83
artislife Mar 2016 #21
Bernin4U Mar 2016 #25
merrily Mar 2016 #84
SamKnause Mar 2016 #26
bernbabe Mar 2016 #27
marions ghost Mar 2016 #55
Ivan Kaputski Mar 2016 #29
marew Mar 2016 #67
MisterP Mar 2016 #30
peacebird Mar 2016 #32
Autumn Colors Mar 2016 #36
Name removed Mar 2016 #41
in_cog_ni_to Mar 2016 #33
Pastiche423 Mar 2016 #35
marions ghost Mar 2016 #58
dana_b Mar 2016 #37
azurnoir Mar 2016 #42
eridani Mar 2016 #46
azurnoir Mar 2016 #47
eridani Mar 2016 #48
azurnoir Mar 2016 #50
eridani Mar 2016 #51
azurnoir Mar 2016 #57
eridani Mar 2016 #59
Duval Mar 2016 #43
marew Mar 2016 #66
PATRICK Mar 2016 #60
delrem Mar 2016 #61
marew Mar 2016 #68
Ino Mar 2016 #111
pengu Mar 2016 #62
marew Mar 2016 #69
Ivan Kaputski Mar 2016 #73
marew Mar 2016 #64
Blue_In_AK Mar 2016 #71
Ivan Kaputski Mar 2016 #72
agracie Mar 2016 #74
desmiller Mar 2016 #76
Politicalboi Mar 2016 #77
merrily Mar 2016 #85
peacebird Mar 2016 #78
merrily Mar 2016 #88
tazkcmo Mar 2016 #82
Cassiopeia Mar 2016 #87
Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #89
leftcoastmountains Mar 2016 #98
basselope Mar 2016 #100
2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #102
eridani Mar 2016 #112
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #110
agracie Mar 2016 #116

Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:41 AM

1. I'll probably vote for her

but it is going to be the most difficult vote of my life. I'm gutted by this primary season, not because of the way things appear to be turning out but because of how we got here. I'm disillusioned with the process and the party. I never, ever thought I would be feeling like this as a Dem. Gah!

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Response to ezgoingrl (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:43 AM

3. I will be "out of the party" right after I vote for Alan Grayson on Aug. 30. n/t

 

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Response to ezgoingrl (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:44 AM

4. If Drumph is the Republican nominee

I think the decision becomes much, much easier. But it sucks to be back to holding one's nose and voting for the lesser of two evils if Bernie's slow and steady approach fails to win the race.

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Response to nxylas (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:38 AM

114. Depends on what state you are in. If Hillary cannot win California without me, she deserves to

lose and so does the Democratic Party for nominating her.

She is the nominee because of her money and not because she has anything to offer the country beyond that. Her platform is weak.

I will vote for all the other Democrat on my ballot but not for Hillary. I've been tricked by these middle-of-the-road presidential nominees before and will not fall for that again.

I liked Gore and Kerry, but they were not progressive enough to get elected. We repeatedly make the mistake of nominating almost-Republicans, and the issues (as in this campaign trade) that we could use to differentiate ourselves and give Independents and liberal Republicans a reason to vote for our candidate cannot work in our favor.

Not doing it. Not voting for a lousy candidate just because he or she is a Democrat. Not this time.

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Response to ezgoingrl (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:10 AM

14. Quit being so easy going, ezgoingrl. It's time to make a stand in 2016. This party must CHANGE

 

Bernie Sanders is going to be our nominee or the Democrats won't win.
That's the message they need to know.

Time to stop falling for the Republican Boogeyman every election.
Don't let them do it to you.
Bernie or BUST.

One way or another this party is going to change.
John Lucas

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Response to johnlucas (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:12 AM

15. I'm not holding my nose one more time

 

I won't vote for the lesser of two evils and be part of the sheeple brigade. By noon today, I will have relinquished my forty year membership in the Democratic Party and will be registered as an Independent.

This is not my party, and it hasn't been for a long, long time.

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:10 AM

65. Exactly!!! n/t

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Response to johnlucas (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:39 PM

38. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

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Response to johnlucas (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:46 AM

56. Hillary and Bernie For President and Vice-president 2016

Nuff said

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Response to Freedom Bill (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 09:59 PM

75. Sorry. No way Bernie wants Hillary for his VP.

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Response to agracie (Reply #75)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:35 AM

94. please lets just ask. Would it be possible?

Wouldn't it be possible that America needs 2 real progressive Saviors..? It is about time a woman who has been close to the top, just may understand the importance of this time We live in. A real new world is being thrust upon us whether We know it or not! Thus a Hillary Sanders ticket. HILLARY AND SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT 2016

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Response to Freedom Bill (Reply #94)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:28 PM

105. You lost me at "2 real progressive saviors". I know of one, but the second eludes me.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #105)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:10 PM

108. Hillary and Bernie For President and Vice-president 2016

There is no comparison to us Viet NM Vets.. Who has Progressed the V.A.. anb Who is progressive. We would not be able to get any medical or trauma care without them.. Hillary Clinton started the Vets Care Program way back When Bill CLINTON was president.. she started the little care we had till Obama.. AsK AVet who is Progressive.. Hillary is the progressive that got that Done ,while the first lady.. Oh What can She do now with Bernie
. Hillary and Bernie For President and Vice-president 2016

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Response to Freedom Bill (Reply #94)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:40 AM

115. Hillary is in no way progressive. Absolutely not.

Her adviser on foreign policy or at least one of them is Kissinger. Check out his history.

No liberal, much less progressive, would ever admit to consulting with Kissinger. He is the worst of the neocons. Just horrible. Read one of his books before you vote for Hillary.

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Response to ezgoingrl (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:21 AM

17. Looking at the other side. It would be pretty easy for me to support her if she is the nominee

 

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Response to ezgoingrl (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:33 AM

113. I will vote for all other Democrats but most definitely not for Hillary.

As a progressive, I am sick and tired of being taken for granted.

This is it. I am 72. I won't ever have a chance to vote for a Bernie Sanders or any candidate with the good character and good platform that Bernie has. I'm not voting for another lousy candidate, and that is what Hillary is.

No. Count me out. Not ever, ever voting for Hillary. I disagree with her on the issues.

I will vote for all the other Democrats on my ballot. I like them all. I know who they will be. They are great.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:42 AM

2. The crowds that showed up at Bernie's rallies, IMO, did not show up for the Democratic Party,

 

they showed up for Bernie's message. They consider Hillary status quo, part of the problem, and not their friend at all.
So - while those rallies have not translated into primary votes, so far, I sincerely doubt those people will show up for Hillary in November. They will just drop out of politics again.

No point in "say hello to president trump" twaddle - that doesn't impress anyone who has skin in the game concerning war and college costs and inheriting a United States beggared by "trade" agreements and poisoned by fracking. Who have expensive ACA health insurance that costs too much to actually use, but sucks out a premium payment every month.

They don't participate in the "vote for the "D"" kabuki play. I can't blame them.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:35 AM

10. Good points! It's really what the I's decide to do. The graphs are always very revealing.

To many people I've talked to a vote for Hillary is the SOS. I know some democrats thinking of voting for Trump if no Bernie, they want change so badly, apparently, even if it's likely for the worse. They also might just drop out all together. Some think the US is so F'ed up there is no path out. The 2016 GE is going to be very close IMO. Bernie is the best breath of fresh air I've seen in US politics for a very long time. I will vote for whomever the democratic nominee is. We don't want republicans filling vacant SCOTUS seats.


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 07:57 PM

70. Im independant

Im writing in Bernie.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:04 PM

79. Many I am hearing from are going Green if Hillary is the nominee--and yes they know the whole story.

BTW, I think you may mean a vote for Hillary is a vote for SCOTUS, not SOS. If not, I am not sure what you are saying.

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Response to merrily (Reply #79)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:27 PM

90. Good point, it would be a vote for SCOTUS. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #90)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:31 PM

91. It's not my point. I thought that was what you were trying to say.

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Response to merrily (Reply #91)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:37 PM

92. Thanks merrily! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:50 AM

95. Thus a Hillary and Sanders for President and Vice-president 2016

Sanders will keep Hillary honest. H will keep her even more to the left. Where it is most important. 1 Freedom from Student loans. 2 Money from Billionaires buying Our Government. 3 Future Energy Concerns. 4 Good Paying Jobs for Future Generations and, the education to train for them. 5 Intelligent, Foreign Policy.... All looking toward a Future not Destroying the Planet. .. Hillary and Sanders for President and Vice-president 2016
.

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Response to Freedom Bill (Reply #95)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 08:46 AM

96. The two of them working together would be excellent! n/t

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Response to djean111 (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:43 PM

39. So much baggage

 

Hillary's policies, her record, her husband and his record, the Clinton Foundation - and that's not even mentioning she and her husband's scandals.

And then there's the DWS and the DNC and the Party....and Obama and the Supreme Court, the drones, the public option, etc., etc. - no more enough is enough!

If Sanders doesn't get the nomination, I won't be voting for Hillary....haven't decided if I'll vote Green or just sit out....

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Response to swilton (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:48 PM

40. The first time I mentioned Bill Clinton to my grandson - he snickered,

 

and asked me why would a guy do that in the White House, and why would he do that to his wife.

All the baggage will be dragged out again - and, again - it doesn't matter if Hillary has a "thick skin" or whatever, it matters what the voters think when they hear and see that stuff. Like TMZ gossip, it never loses its curiosity value, and voters can be turned off.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #40)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:36 AM

52. Yeah i can't wait for all that return to the 90's...

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Response to swilton (Reply #39)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:04 AM

63. Ditto! n/t

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:52 AM

5. I don't see how

that's supposed to relax me but whatever...

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:52 AM

6. You need to cross post this

In GD-P as well. ( just a thought) the Hill-bots are going crazy over there at the moment. Thanks for posting.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:54 AM

7. Time will tell,

As it stands right now. I am in a Red state where my vote for President will not matter much one way or the other. I will certainly vote in the down ticket races and on any local issues which I believe to be important.

Once the primaries are over, if HRC is the presumptive nominee I will be tuning out the election as completely as is possible and visiting this forum much less if at all. I will be unsubscribing from many election related pages on FB and giving it about as much attention as I do professional sports, which is to say, I know they exist, but I simply do not care one way or the other.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:11 AM

44. People in very red or very blue states can afford protest votes

Purple states, not so much. I voted for Nader in 2000, but only at the last minute after I was pretty sure that Gore had WA State locked up.

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Response to eridani (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:22 AM

49. I don't disagree with your conclusion at all

and assuming that HRC is the presumptive nominee (which is far from a safe bet at this point). I can check the polls in my state a few days before the election and make a final decision as to the need or lack of need for my further attention. The time between June and November I can blissfuly tune things out. We have some important state races here as well as local races and issues that will come about.

I am overall fed up with our ratings driven media sensationalized version of Presidential Politics and campaigns in any event where nothing but the horse race counts and issues are simply pesky little things that only have value when a candidate makes a gaffe about this or that point.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:08 AM

8. Think so?

I will ALWAYS vote, don't get me wrong.

But I will vote for the candidate that I think is the best person for the job and who's values and policy ideas align best with mine.

I was hoping to vote for Sanders in the GE.

If HRC is the closest I can find to my views, then I'll vote for her. If not, then not.

Though, I just don't see the best person in the race being the one who is against single payer healthcare, who sends her campaign surrogates out to say that higher education isn't a right but is a privilege for those that are rich, like them, and can afford it and certainly someone as hawkish as HRC who voted for wars.

No, I WILL vote and I'll vote for the best candidate. I just don't see that being HRC at the moment.

I have a LOT of research to do.

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Response to Shadowflash (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:11 AM

9. Excellent post

 

I feel the same way.
Only I do not have to do a lot of research. I already know who I am voting for if Bernie is not the nominee.
It is NOT Clinton. Clinton is just a RepubliCON in Democrat's clothing.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:53 AM

11. just a friendly piece of advice....

not a great idea after a big loss to come into bernie group and "reassure" us that most of us will be voting for the one who fixed and cheated her way to win. i know you are a bernie supporter, but this does not relax me at all and it actually came across to me as condescending. you didn't write the article, i know. but this primary season is not over until bernie says its over.

i will decide who i vote for in november, and right now, its not looking good for hillary.

have a nice day

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:55 AM

23. Yes, this!

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:43 PM

31. Agree - Thank You

Thanks

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Response to Impedimentus (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 02:20 PM

34. yw :) nt

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:38 AM

12. This is not relaxing, it's infuriating!

Speak for yourself, not others.

If the Democratic Party would have supported both candidates and stayed neutral, if the media had given the same treatment to both candidates and if, and this is a big if, HRC had run a clean campaign then it would be easier to consider voting for her. But very sadly for our country none of the above is true.



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Response to ALittleBirdie (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:08 AM

24. This too!

First, there's her as a politician.

Then there's way the campaign and party at large have conducted themselves.

If only one of them were at issue, while the other was semi-acceptable, it would be one thing.

But considering both together? It's gone much too far.

Rewarding terrible behavior, because the behavior of others is even worse, only enables it.

It does not fix anything.

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Response to ALittleBirdie (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:40 AM

53. ^^^ditto

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Response to ALittleBirdie (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 11:17 PM

93. +1 gabrzillion

Voting for the rightful winner who wasn't your first choice, not a huge problem.

Voting for a liar who "won" by cheating and rigging the system, not likely.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:07 AM

13. The hell we will. Bernie or Bust. That's it.

 

I don't care if Sanders endorses her or not.
I won't vote for her.

Luckily we won't have to worry about that scenario because Sanders will be the nominee.
Tell Hillary to practice endorsing Bernie.
'Cause we're COMIN' in California!

See you in June.
John Lucas

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:19 AM

16. Go green or go 'garch!

 

Oligarch that is...



oh btw, unrec this OP.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:23 AM

18. Some people in the Establishment are going to be VERY surprised.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:31 AM

19. Does the author have amnesia?

But if history is any guide, a mass defection of Democrats and Dem-leaning independents is the last thing anyone should worry about. We’ve seen this before and we know how it will play out.

*cough*2000*cough*

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Response to Mufaddal (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:27 AM

28. There was a spoiler in that race

and the "no lesser of 2 evils" so we got the greatest evil and may do so again, for pique or for spite.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:09 PM

81. Or because people are tired of Democrats going right and taking the left for granted.

There's a short term hit and a long term hit. People I hear from who stayed faithful in 2000 and beyond are now ready to take the short term hit.

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Response to merrily (Reply #81)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:13 AM

97. I don't think it will be a short term hit.

It will mean more than *co did because we will lose the House, Senate, Presidency and SCOTUS. It will damage us forever.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #97)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:38 AM

99. That is certainly one view and, IMO, it's the majority view.

However, others might say the Party has been damaging itself since it went DLC. They may be counter-productive. However, characterizing their deeply -eld convictions about where the Party and the country should be and what to do about it as poutrage, pique, spite, unicorn or pony is also counter-productive to anyone who cares about their votes. JMO

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Response to merrily (Reply #99)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:12 PM

101. I agree that disparaging remarks are

counterproductive. I hope that we are able to hold this together one more time, We also have to think of the children and the rest of the world, not just our own lives.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #101)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:18 PM

103. I believe with all my heart that both groups of Democrats and former

Democrats are thinking of the children and the rest of the world. They just have different ideas about how best to protect them. And, if we ever want the votes of both groups, we need to grasp that in a visceral way. People who are saying "the Democratic Party has gone too far right and looks as though it will continue going too far right" are just as worried about the future of their descendants as you are.

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Response to merrily (Reply #103)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:25 PM

104. Thanks for the reply. I guess I just so old that I remember

the tragedy of Republican rule; Nixon, Reagan, Bush and *co. Each more destructive than the last and I fear this one will finish us off.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #104)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:31 PM

106. Plenty of people who have left the Party remember the same things and

believe that liberal Democrats pushing back on Reagan's trickle down were the only thing that saved the country. They believe that insufficient opposition to Republicans by third way Democrats is very dangerous.

Again, the more Democrats who stay in the party want to believe that those leaving have no valid "country saving" "descendant saving" points, the less likely it is that liberal Democrats will keep voting Democratic.

I don't think it's a majority of the Party or even a majority of the left, but I know they are not stupid, they are not ill informed, they are not looking for unicorns, etc.

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Response to merrily (Reply #106)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:04 PM

107. I understand and my state has already voted

with Bernie losing by a lot even with all the very enthusiastic backers. I admire him and wish he could do better, but I don't even want a Trump or Cruz close to the White House.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #107)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:15 PM

109. Others would say they don't want anyone remotely like them in the White House.

And, if someone remotely like them gets into the White House, he or she will have to do so without their votes.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:14 PM

86. Yes, there was --

 

200,000 registered Democrats in Florida who voted for the real Republican GW Bush over the pseudo Republicans neoliberal DLC Gore & Liberman!

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Response to Mufaddal (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:07 PM

80. IMO, it's precisely because we saw this in 2008 that this time will be different.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:37 AM

20. What I find shocking is that she has done absolutely nothing at all to try to win our votes. Nothing

"I support you even if you don't support me" is not going to cut it.
Not when the majority of millennials are so excited about Bernie. To assume that she will get their vote is ridiculous, short sighted. They will just stay home.


And it goes deeper than that. I'm an oldie. And at this moment I don't think I can vote for her. Trump is insane, a racist megalomaniac. But he is to the left of her on trade AND regime change. That irritates the crap out of me. That said, there is no way that I will vote for him.

To take us for granted is a huge mistake. And the MSM and her campaign are forgetting one thing - her negatives are so high! People do not trust her.

Lets see if the media begins to hold her feet to the fire about winning our votes.

The ball is in her court.

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Response to jillan (Reply #20)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:54 AM

22. That's how I feel as well.

Why should I vote for Clinton?

Her policies suck and she represents a continuation and strengthening of a capitalist system that has thrown the majority of Americans overboard.

I want to vote for a Democrat, who advocates for Democratic principles, not a 1980s republican.

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Response to jillan (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:15 AM

45. Yes, that's the trouble with supporting Clinton--we keep the Trump disaster out of office, but

--we lose a generation of potential active party members. The younger people that have become involved with the Sanders campaign might well vote for Clinton for the same reason, but that is ALL they will do. Hoping that I can convince some that revolution is a long-term thing, and that they need to think about running for office themselves, or supporting friends that do.

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Response to eridani (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:44 AM

54. Revolution is a longterm thing?

--as in nothing changes, ever?

The younger generation can see that it's not working now and it won't for them unless there are substantial changes.

They DON'T want to perpetuate what has happened to their parents.

I don't think they'll be buying that.

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Response to eridani (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:11 PM

83. We will lose all the former Democrats who re-registered to vote for Bernie in primary and we will

lose many under 60 years of age, especially Millennials, who are furious with the DNC.

That is how I see it anyway.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:37 AM

21. At this moment in time, I believe you are wrong

 

Sure, we may vote for our local and state Dems but even that is a not a lock.

There is not a lot of upside in forgetting what is wrong with our party, with the other party as well.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:13 AM

25. Wouldn't it be interesting for Bernie -not- to "play the gentleman"

..and instead announce to HRH, DWS, et al, how DISGUSTED he is with them?

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Response to Bernin4U (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:13 PM

84. I really wonder if it's going to be about what Bernie says or doesn't say.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:14 AM

26. No I will not.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:17 AM

27. This is not the same as 2008

In 2008 the people whose candidate lost the primary still had a good candidate to vote for, they did not hate Obama.

In this primary, if Bernie loses, there are many Bernie supporters who despise Hillary.

I think the fallout will be much greater this time.

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Response to bernbabe (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:46 AM

55. Right

seems like more people would see that.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:31 AM

29. Garbage!

 

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Response to Ivan Kaputski (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:13 AM

67. My thoughts exactly! nt

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:35 PM

30. super clear choice--the candidate of war, deportation, Social-Security destruction, attacks on

healthcare, outsourcing, loan sharking, locking up a third of black youth, and border fences--ah, crapples

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:59 PM

32. In that case I will write in Bernie Sanders.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 04:04 PM

36. Yup, me too (nt)

 

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Response to peacebird (Reply #32)


Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 02:14 PM

33. Riiiight...

When pigs fly.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 04:00 PM

35. I have voted in every presidential election since 1972

I was a registered democrat from 1972 to 2004. I left the party long after it left me.

I will leave the democratic party again, after I vote for the person the world needs most.

Never again will I vote for the lesser of two evils.

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Response to Pastiche423 (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:52 AM

58. yep no more lesser of two evils especially when you have a Not Evil

(to say the least) to vote for.

After voting Democratic party since the early 80's to try to stop Reagan, I will suddenly become an Independent this year.

Not saying what I'll do in November but I will no longer affiliate or work for the Dem party, that is for $$#@ ^#%^@!%#@(!) #^%#

SURE!

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 05:08 PM

37. but this election season is not like others

the candidates who are considered "fringe" getting to the top (or almost getting there) and then the indys making up most of the voting populace - this is all new! So I think that The Nation is looking at this based on past elections but this isn't LIKE past elections. For instance who would have predicted that all of those indys in Ohio would break for Kasich last night?? No one did!!

I think the Nation and many others will be shocked when the final votes from the Pacific islands and Hawaii come in on November 8th.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:05 PM

42. oh yes of course we will we'll fall in line for the party just like we always do

we'll sigh and say we started a movement and maybe next time-next time - - next time - - - next time - - - - next time

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:17 AM

46. Next time means running for local office yourself, or supporting progressive candidates who do.

Why in bloody hell can't people on the left obtain the same kind of clout with Dems that the Tea Party crowd has obtained with Repubs?

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Response to eridani (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:20 AM

47. ya being on the city council is a start but we really never seem to get much further

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:21 AM

48. Sanders changed a single city before becoming Vermont's senator

Being serious about revolution means being serious about developing a progressive farm team.

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Response to eridani (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:23 AM

50. and he's been stopped cold at the Presidency or so we're told

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:30 AM

51. That is up to us. A revolution needs a plan A, a plan B and a plan C

There is one hell of a lot of work to be done if we can get Sanders into the White House. Figuring out strategy for that would be plan A

Plan B is if Clinton can overcome Trump. I think that progressives are not inclined to have the same kind of expectations of her as many did for Obama, so plan B is the strategy to fight back on the issues that need it the most.

Plan C is thinking about what we have to do to fight on damned near every front if Trump or another Repub gets in.

President Dwight Eisenhower, Republican, uttered these words on November 8, 1954:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."


The stupids did not give up, but doubled down and kept doing it even after Goldwater was thumped. Now they are in such ascendancy that even a Dem president backed Chained CPI, a significant cut to Social Security. If we want to win, we have to think long-term too.

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Response to eridani (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:49 AM

57. It's not about giving up at all it's more about being consigned to second place for perpetuity

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #57)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:53 AM

59. If we keep on fighting NO MATTER WHAT, we won't be

That was the point about Plans A,, B and C

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:44 PM

43. Gee, eridani.

 

I don't know what I'll do. Bernie is what this country needs. Hillary and her lies about Sanders, her poor judgment and the flipping DLC, have caused me to rethink being a Democrat. I could almost weep for our country, if she is our President. And I know Trump would be far worse. I've never had to vote for someone I couldn't support, since I first voted in 1960. Right now, I don't see how I can.

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Response to Duval (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:11 AM

66. +1! n/t

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 05:56 AM

60. Memory lane

Watching the former HHH(Humphrey) despisers watching TV in the dorm room, piecing together the election results for the hopeful election- even if by the electoral college alone. For months branding him as the hack who danced gleefully while the media did the Chicago convention riots and the putting down of the insurrection. All pre-internet so you never saw the changes or viewpoints outside the media opinions. Oh yeah they booted a very mild and very respected CBS reporter off the Convention floor. What was the meme. Oh yes, the shot RFK would have lost to and backed HHH anyway. The political machine and the public distaste for Tricky Dick(whioch we would hear again from a derisive McGovern) would unite the country. Months of deadly media silence while HHH was out looking for dollars and healing, finally turning on LBJ over the war.

When people tell you they have seen shit before you must believe America is a permanent diarrhea patient. It is not the young people who do not or are not allowed to vote in record numbers unless someone very popular is running. Even if that were the case the older voters control the ballot box if they too are, for once in their lives maybe, excited in a positive way. I would prefer along with George Washington that parties and political pros disappear but that is naive if we let them have so much unmerited power over choice itself.

Beyond this group I listen to the people who might have been gained by Sanders and those(with a great deal of new money) who mobilize against Hillary. No one here on DU is THE problem although many are bellwethers of what is happening and to come. Hillary should win, but after the unchallenged Theft 2000 and its sequels we seem to have put off the passive logic being that massive plurality and turnout is the key, then locking the key inside its box somewhere. To power that we had to risk new talent, positive populism and positive progressivism not play off the fear and anger the other side has jealously monopolized. All Dems had to do was act on what voters simply needed or felt strongly about aside from delusional and self destructive frustration. This whole universe, as might be noted looking about, is one immense fight against nothingness and dissolution and it doesn't happen by pretending to stand very still.



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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 06:28 AM

61. uh huh. the ratfucked swiftboated "Berniebros" will support Hillary. Relax.

relax
relax
relax relax
relax

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Response to delrem (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:24 AM

68. You are so like your Hillary.

This type of post is one of the reasons why you continue to push people away from Hillary every single day. You spout Hillary's ideals on a constant basis. Trump supporters do the same thing.
Even Hillary once said she had a lot of work to do with Independents. She was partially correct. Because of her own behavior and her followers like you, she has alienated innumerable Democrats.
Thank you for helping the rest of us see, through her supporters, who she really is and what she really stands for! You reflect your candidate with every malicious word.

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Response to marew (Reply #68)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 02:18 PM

111. I think delrem forgot the sarcasm thingie.

He/she posts frequently in Bernie Sanders Group, so...

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 06:38 AM

62. I don't believe it

I think she'll lose a good chunk of his supporters. Neither indies nor the left like her at all. I talk to a ton of indies in my work. Most who supported Obama say they'll never vote for Clinton.

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Response to pengu (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:35 AM

69. I am seeing the exact same thing!

And then there's Hillary's BFF, Wasserman Schultz! No wonder there are serious petitions going around wanting her out! Lots of sleazy stuff going on there and Hillary participates with joy and exuberance!

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Response to pengu (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 09:54 PM

73. How could an anti-establishment candidate support an establishment candidate?

 

Would Bernie make a huge hypocrite out of himself and support the enemy?

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:09 AM

64. Do not be so sure!

And we will not sit home. There are numerous other Democratic candidates we will be voting for! We will simply leave a certain section blank.
I have been voting for Democratic candidates for 30 years- never missed an election. But Hillary is the biggest DINO in history.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 08:01 PM

71. In Alaska I have the luxury of voting my conscience,

given that the state hasn't voted for a Democratic presidential nominee since 1964. Bernie as the nominee might stand a chance here, as we have more independents than Dems and Republicans combined, but Hillary never.

So if she's the nominee I'll have some time to think about it, but my ultimate vote won't mean a thing.


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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 09:52 PM

72. I have a bridge for sale ...cheap!

 

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 09:57 PM

74. Uhm... Not. A. Freakin'. Chance.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:01 PM

76. A cold day in Hell. Sanders or Bust.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:02 PM

77. You're delusional

 

And her husband is a big minus for us. He likes to cheat while people are trying to vote. Some say no laws broken, fuck that. Why give your vote to those who would steal it from you.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:14 PM

85. I don't think that is the OP's opinion. I think he or she is quoting from the article.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:02 PM

78. I am not only a dem for the past 41 years, but an election official in my county. I WILL vote Bernie

Even if it is a write in come November

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Response to peacebird (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:15 PM

88. In all likelihood, a write in will not register anywhere.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:09 PM

82. I know some who will not.

The Party is over.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:14 PM

87. NC and IN won't be states that swing the GE.

FL and OH will be though. Bush won FL by just over 500 votes. Granted, there was a little more going on than 500 votes, but in the end it was close enough to steal because of a lack of enthusiasm offered by the Dem candidate.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Mar 17, 2016, 10:19 PM

89. Maybe, maybe not

...I cast my first vote for Carter and have voted in every election since then.

I promised myself in 2004 that it would be the last time I sucked it up and voted for a crappy Democrat....Kerry was a crappy candidate. I will never again "hold my nose" and vote. Never....

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:09 AM

98. I'm a no, but then I'm a "declined to state" kind of person.

My brother just switched from Repub to a "declined to state"!
I've voted "other" in the past and will do so again. No big deal.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:06 PM

100. False equivalence.

 

So many things wrong in here:

Let me start with 2004. Yes, there was a similar dynamic that played out in 2004 with Howard Dean. WE (me among others) warned that if you put a war voter up against bush you cede the single largest issue the democrats had at that time. They put up a war voter and lost the election. So, can ponder about how many Howard Dean supporters stayed home, voted green (as I did) or otherwise.. but that is a terrible example since it led to a losing result.

2008: This is the BIG false equivalent. Obama ran on hope and change. I didn't buy it, so I didn't vote for him. HOWEVER, I was involved with a group who was very excited about him and we hosted the largest online election night party, we had something like 700K people watching us live on blog.tv.. it was insane. Anyway, there was a feeling among the people at the event and who were watching as returns came in that there was the potential for this to be "our president". I remember one person saying excitedly as Florida and Ohio went for Obama "He's going to win and he's going to listen to us.. we're finally going to have a say".

That was all gone by 2010.. when Obama gave away the public option it was the final straw in a long line of GOP capitulation that signaled to too many people... "no, you don't have a say... nothing has really changed." We chose the lesser of two evils again. The midterm elections hand the house to the GOP due to low voter turnout. 76% of the people wanted the public option. We end up with the ACA, which while it does have a couple of good parts, is based on the same old system that most people hate. INSURANCE COMPANIES.

Fast forward to 2012: Obama is re-elected, but 13 million less people show up at the polls... 10 million of them Obama voters. The "hope and change" element is gone. He is now just the lesser of two evils and Romney was such a weak tea GOP candidate that people didn't care enough.

2014 mid terms: The only people left who care is the right and they take back the senate and further solidify hold on the house.

Now its 2016. We have a choice between REAL hope and change and many of those people from 2008 are back again. Those 10 million people who left between 2008 and 2012 see the real deal in Sanders. Someone who won't throw away the public option, who won't allow the bush tax cuts to become permanent, who won't push through trade agreements like the TPP.

And no.. those people will NOT show up for Clinton, just like they didn't show up for Obama in 2012. The democratic party will bleed even more votes and turnout will be LOWER than 2012 and the GOP will win, because the turnout just won't be there.


One GIANT caveat. IF the GOP leaves the supreme court seat open.. it is a wedge issue for Clinton... the ONE WEDGE ISSUE that can actually get people to turn out. I have a feeling the GOP will figure this out before November and get this guy in, because they know they will lose control of the Senate if they don't.

So presuming they seat a SC justice. Clinton has no chance of getting the Sanders people, b/c those are the very people who already abandoned Obama.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:13 PM

102. my guess is that they will stay home

 

after the chance to have someone like Bernie, they won't be able to vote for someone like Hillary.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #102)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 03:21 AM

112. Some Sanders aupporters are committed Democrats, but many others are alienated voters--

--who have been non-participants so far. The former would vote for Clinton, and the latter may very well not. If they do vote for her, that is all they will do--no active campaigning.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 02:06 PM

110. I will vote for Hillary in the GE... still voting for Bernie in the WI primary.

 

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:24 PM

116. No. Just no. I will not vote for Hillary.

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