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Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:35 PM

Does Ohio seem wrong?

After winning a similar state in Michigan, almost tied in Illinois, somehow he loses Ohio by the same margin as North Carolina???

The fix is in?

48 replies, 4336 views

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Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply Does Ohio seem wrong? (Original post)
bernbabe Mar 2016 OP
ISeeA BrightFuture Mar 2016 #1
Stevepol Mar 2016 #42
jillan Mar 2016 #2
virtualobserver Mar 2016 #3
NEOBuckeye Mar 2016 #27
virtualobserver Mar 2016 #29
noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #4
dana_b Mar 2016 #31
truedelphi Mar 2016 #40
Bernin4U Mar 2016 #44
Kalidurga Mar 2016 #5
grasswire Mar 2016 #10
Kalidurga Mar 2016 #11
hopemountain Mar 2016 #36
TM99 Mar 2016 #6
truedelphi Mar 2016 #7
notadmblnd Mar 2016 #13
dflprincess Mar 2016 #15
truedelphi Mar 2016 #38
dflprincess Mar 2016 #48
southerncrone Mar 2016 #17
basselope Mar 2016 #8
Stevepol Mar 2016 #43
basselope Mar 2016 #47
femmedem Mar 2016 #9
roody Mar 2016 #16
femmedem Mar 2016 #21
NEOBuckeye Mar 2016 #28
Rebkeh Mar 2016 #12
bernbabe Mar 2016 #14
Rebkeh Mar 2016 #25
Gwhittey Mar 2016 #18
Gwhittey Mar 2016 #19
NEOhiodemocrat Mar 2016 #20
magical thyme Mar 2016 #22
in_cog_ni_to Mar 2016 #23
agracie Mar 2016 #24
Cassiopeia Mar 2016 #26
winter is coming Mar 2016 #32
snot Mar 2016 #30
kath Mar 2016 #33
in_cog_ni_to Mar 2016 #34
kath Mar 2016 #35
mak3cats Mar 2016 #37
mother earth Mar 2016 #39
truedelphi Mar 2016 #45
mother earth Mar 2016 #46
swilton Mar 2016 #41

Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:36 PM

1. Indeed it does

... Maybe a little number switching?????????????

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Response to ISeeA BrightFuture (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:34 PM

42. Yep! Switching the columns when counting for 1 in every 50 voter gives a 4% flip

and doing so for 1 in every 25 votes gives 8% flip, etc. As Steven Freeman said several years ago, It's "trivially easy" to change an election by maliciously programming the voting machines or just by altering the report of the results for the central tabulators. It's been happening for well over a decade now. Kerry lost the election in OH due to the machines though probably in a slightly different manner in 04.

The only way to put a stop to it now, as long as we've decided to use the machines (even though common sense indicates that it's undemocratic and highly dangerous), is to REQUIRE an AUDIT for every democratic election and if serious statistical anomalies are found to REQUIRE A COMPLETE RECOUNT OF THE PAPER (assuming there even is any paper to count).

I suspect that MO was tilted too and maybe IL.

The point is nobody can prove me wrong because it's impossible to know whether Hillary actually won or Sanders won, so it's really just a matter of opinion. I choose to believe that Sanders won in OH and maybe in MO and IL as well. NC might not be attributable to the machines as much as to the voter suppression.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:37 PM

2. That was really surprising.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:37 PM

3. Kasich won Ohio with 63% in 2014

 

Maybe Ohioans were just supporting their native son.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:11 PM

27. Kasich is no native.

Kasich was born in McKeesport, PA, outside Pittsburgh.

He only won in 2014 because his opponent, Ed FitzGerald, was an embarrassingly incompetent challenger.

Read up on Kasich, he's nothing special himself. But the GOP dominates this state, and it shows.

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Response to NEOBuckeye (Reply #27)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:15 PM

29. He served in the house from Ohio for 28 years

 

Native son for all practical purposes

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:37 PM

4. Ohio

sadly is more conservative than Michigan. I was born in Ohio and most of my cousins who are still there are very conservative. I also bet you have some Ohio voters who will do the opposite of Michigan because they hate Michigan.

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Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:22 PM

31. I know that the southern part like

Akron Canton sure is.

my daughter's aunts/uncles (her dad's relatives) are VERY conservative. They have the confederate flag and some even have the Nazi flag hanging from their homes. I kid you not!!

She was devastated when she went to meet them for the first time last year. She left early.

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Response to dana_b (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 05:54 PM

40. One thing that is so sad about people like that - if they are ever forced to

Live outside their little box of provincial nonsense, they can and will change.

I had a female relative, and she was very RW when I was growing up. Despite her friends and her spouse being progressive, she would say things like, "Hitler would have a solution for the blacks, and I would approve of that solution." !!!!

Then her neighborhood changed and the store where she assisted management became a place where AA's spent quite a bit of money. After several months of daily contact, she was in love with the African American community. Her daily contact with real people had her soon realizing they were not all on welfare, any more than "all white people" were. She soon realized that they were not sub-par for the human race, but instead extremely intelligent and creative. And whatever other nonsensical stuff she had believed was put behind her as well.

I found her transformation amazing, but it does make sense. We all are often afraid of the unknown. And often once it becomes known it is not at all scary.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:04 PM

44. Heh, what I've found is they often want it both ways.

They can be extremely friendly, and even quite empathetic in many ways to the -actual people- who appear within their daily lives.

Yet still remain entirely bigoted when thinking in a more general sense about whatever group (race, gender, profession, sexual ID, etc) they're hung up against.

Thus is the conservative way.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:37 PM

5. It probably is...

I am not going to lose sleep over it. Bernie's best states are coming up and she isn't going to get the nomination.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

10. I agree.

She isn't going to get the nomination.

FBI.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:40 PM

11. Factor 8

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Response to grasswire (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 04:31 AM

36. yes, one of these days

a big shoe is going to drop and 11 days of questioning will be the "good ol' days".

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

6. No.

 

I went to college in OH. I voted for Jesse Jackson in that primary. I think I was literally the only one on my campus to do so. Ohio is not progressive. Let's not pretend that it is.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

7. Voting activists tryed to get the Party Leaders to understand about the votes "flipping" on the

Electronic Voting Machinery that was used in Ohio, way back in 2004.

Party Big Wigs could have cared less.

Possibly because they all knew they might need the same tricks up their sleeves at some future point?

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:43 PM

13. I've thought that more than once myself.

Wouldn't surprise me if KKKarl Rove wasn't lurking in the background. He's been awful quiet this primary season. Somehow it just doesn't seem natural.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:46 PM

15. And don't forget "Anonymous" claims they kept Ohio from being stolen in 2012

and given Rove's reaction that night, I'm inclined to believe them.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 05:42 PM

38. I don't remember Rove's reaction that night. I tend to notwatch TV on

Election Night as the coverage is so biased, and far more on the RW side of things than the Left. Can you explain how Rove acted? Much appreciated in advance. (One of my happier reactions, politics-wise, was when I thought Rush Limbaugh's head would explode, the day after Bill Clinton accomplished his first win of the WH!)

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #38)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:38 PM

48. In a nutshell

as election night went on Turd Blossom (as Bush called him) kept insisting that there was no doubt Ohio would go for Romney. As the night wore on he began to sound desperate.

This Truth Out article explains it nicely:

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/12845-anonymous-karl-rove-and-2012-election-fix

This is from Thom Hartmann's show and he talks about what role Anonymous may have had. (He covers some of the same ground in the Truth Out Link.



This video is long and not that interesting but you can skip through it to see on Rove kept insisting it was too soon to call Ohio.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:48 PM

17. My first thought on this. Need to check Chattanooga bank basements.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

8. Yes, but.. the results matched the exit polls

 

So I am not that shocked.

The under 50 voters didn't turn out.. CNN exit polls showed the majority of voters were over 50.

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Response to basselope (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:45 PM

43. Which exit polls?

The ones immediately after the voting, or the adjusted ones after the final tallies were announced?

All such polls now lower the numbers for the Dems because it is assumed that Repubs are less likely to take part in the exit polling (though it's hard to explain why Repubs would be less likely to do so).

Here in KS after the pre-election polls had Kobach in a very tight race for sec of state, he won by over 17% of the vote. It's no wonder he is determined to keep Beth Clarkson or anybody from actually auditing or recounting any of the paper, even the paper print-outs on the touch screen machines.

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #43)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:14 PM

47. CNN's.. they were posted right after the polls closed.

 

I went straight to them before the votes were even coming in and at first I was excited b/c it broke down the age groups into 6 groups and Bernie was ahead in 4 out of 6. (They have changed the poll now to show only 4 categories)

As I studied the numbers, I realized they were showing me a loss (I think I posted about right after reading it).

Their categories (I think) were

18-25, 25-35, 35-49, 50-65 and 65 and up.

18-25 broke HEAVILY for Bernie 85 / 15, but they were only 8 or 9%

25-29 also for Bernie 77/23, but they were only 7 or 8%

30-39 was about 55/45 for Bernie, but they were about 15%

40-49 was about 55/45 for Bernie and they were 15%

50-65 was about 65/35 for Clinton and they were 33%

65 and up was 80/20 for Clinton and they were 22%.

I did the math and turned to my wife and said... "unless this is completely wrong, Bernie is not winning Ohio"

She didn't want to accept it, but I showed her that if 55% of the voters were 50 and up and they broke from Clinton 65% and higher, there just isn't enough votes left for Bernie to make up the difference.

Not quite sure why Ohio skewed so much older than some of the states, but that is what the CNN exit poll seemed to show. Maybe it was having 167K of them on Spring Break... not sure.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

9. Independents went for Kasich rather than Bernie.

A goodly number of Democrats did, too. He's their guy, they like him, and they wanted to stop Trump.

Sucks for Bernie's campaign, but in retrospect we should have seen it coming.

Edited to add: not sure why younger people didn't come out to vote. That's puzzling.

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Response to femmedem (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:47 PM

16. Open primary?

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Response to roody (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:52 PM

21. Semi-open

From link:

"...Ohio's primary Tuesday is semi-open.

Ohioans do not declare a party when they register to vote; voters choose to affiliate with a party by selecting that party's primary ballot on Election Day. Voters who do not choose a party can vote an unaffiliated ballot that contains tax measures and other nonpartisan issues..."
"

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Response to femmedem (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:13 PM

28. Not this Dem.

I am a native Ohioan and I totally don't get these results.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:41 PM

12. Apparently, Trump scared some dems into voting for Kasich

Which makes no sense at all, fear makes people do irrational things.

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Response to Rebkeh (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:44 PM

14. Surely no Bernie supporter in their right mind

would waste their precious vote on Kasich?

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Response to bernbabe (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:03 PM

25. No, of course not.

But dems that don't like Clinton might. Also, Ohio is Kasich's home state. They know him, like him and trust him.

It makes sense.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:48 PM

18. Exit Polls

 

Showed Sanders won the >100K/year income people and Hillary got <100K people? That seemed odd.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:49 PM

19. Spring Break hurt too

 

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:50 PM

20. Unfortunatly I don't think so

The poll I worked at in Ohio today had a mainly older (60's an up) and low turnout voter base. Plus a surprising number of switches from D to R. I think Trump had them scared an deciding to vote Kasich (Although I don't see how he maintains his favorability in Ohio after all he has done here). Plus a low provisional vote count. Was a disappointing day voter wise.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:52 PM

22. 1. they went establishment and

 

2. NC is closer than expected.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:52 PM

23. I just heard on Bernie tv, from someone in Ohio, the largest counties in Ohio haven't been reported

and they're definitely going to go to Bernie, so the numbers will be much, much closer.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:58 PM

24. Sure does seem wrong. Can't believe that map... pretty hard to swallow. n/t

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:04 PM

26. I thin ka lot of Dems decided to create a seat for Kasich at the convention.

It worked, if Republicans have a brokered convention, Kasich will be an option now, probably a more viable option than Rubio at this point.

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #26)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:22 PM

32. This. Put into perspective, another DUer said Trump got more votes in OH today

than Hillary--and he came in second. Things are often screwy when a senator or governor is running in their home state.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:19 PM

30. If you look at the history of elections in Ohio,

things there have been extremely messed up for a long time.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:36 AM

33. The margin does seem really strange.

margin is virtually identical to freakin' *North Carolina's*?!? WTF?

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Response to kath (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:40 AM

34. And Tyler Pedigo poll had Bernie within 3 points in Ohio. He loses by 24?

And Tyler had Bernie WINNING Illinois and Missouri.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:44 AM

35. Why have votes stopped coming in from OH?? CNN has had it at 92% for hours.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:49 AM

37. There were a lot of anecdotal posts yesterday...

...about Dems crossing over to vote for Kasich. And I bet that a lot of indies that Bernie would have normally picked up did the same. I won't lose sleep over it.

That being said, after I finish scanning through the Bernie group, I believe I will avoid DU the rest of today. I don't think I can't take any foaming-at-the-mouth gloating from Camp Weathervane. See you all tomorrow.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 05:46 PM

39. All manner of tricks are being employed, and still safeguarding the votes & securing machines

is not something that's being tackled. There are reasons for letting these things remain wide open, and it does not bode well for a democracy.

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Response to mother earth (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:23 PM

45. Absolutely True.

And of course,with the heads of both Parties firmly ensconced inside the lifestyles of the One Percent, it doesn't bother them one little bit if the nation remains a democracy or not.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #45)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:48 PM

46. Absolutely. I so agree. We are being played.

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Response to bernbabe (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 06:13 PM

41. The only theories I have

 

are students on spring break and Republican/Independents voting for Kasich rather than Sanders.

Sad night all the way around.

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