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Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:28 AM

 

As a country... do we need to hit rock bottom??

I ask this with all honesty..

I am a 40 something Latino, born of parents that came up from a little Commonwealth island in the Caribbean in search of economic prosperity (aka "the American dream". And although they dropped out of school before even making it to high school and with their limited English, they did a pretty good job of raising a small family with the work that they were able to find ..Anyway, I am getting off track here.. long story short, I was raised poor - but happy

I am not a product of higher education, but I have worked hard and I have exceeded my HS education limitations to management levels at various companies. I never followed politics growing up, even well into my 20's.. in fact, it took the company that I had worked for 10 years in the 90's into the early 2000's to be shut down and moved to the Mexican border for me to finally wake up and "get it" - yes, I was "displaced".. I thought I was going to retire from this company, I had gone from trade worker on the floor to mid-level management in a manufacturing environment.. an unlikely journey, but proof that hard work, determination & integrity still had value.

Well, what this shock to my world did was open my eyes to an undeniable fact I had not been aware existed.. government, politics and their policies had a direct effect on my life.. boom, imagine that. Not only were our jobs steadily flowing overseas by policies enacted in the 80/90's, but the union shops (like the one I was at) were being gutted for cheaper labor down near the border or in other states that were more corporate friendly (if you get my drift).. Of course the company claimed it was a necessary consolidation of manufacturing assets.. but come one, we all know what that was about. And I say this as not being part of the union anymore (at that point).. side-note; this location/facility had been in operation for 50+ years and it was still very profitable at the point of mothballing..

So that was 13+ years ago, my political leanings were obviously shaped by this experience and the consequent enlightenment of the 2000 election a couple years earlier had really fueled me to learn as much about our country and it's history as I could.. the 2004 election was my first time voting, unfortunately this was also going to be my first experience voting AGAINST someone and not necessarily FOR someone.. the first but not the last as 2012 was a reminder..

Sorry for the long winded post so far, I just found the need to explain how I have come to this sad and sobering conclusion/ question.. here me out - this country really need a wake up call.. with all the distractions and the lack of engagement from the everyday electorate.. Is a Trump presidency almost necessary?? Do we need to hit rock bottom?? like some addicts do to realize that the direction we've been heading in for 30+ years has been misguided and intentionally undermining the hard working middle class and marginalizing the poor.. what will it take to get an FDR type presidency again?? How many politicians have to be bought before we say enough?? How many billions have to be spent in campaigning before common folks say.. WTF?? I just can't believe we are here again, I honestly thought 2008 was the turning point.. but it wasn't. I know rock bottom equates to more suffering of the poor and the working poor - but I really don't see an alternative to wake up a populous that has fallen asleep... as long as Facebook is up & running, the Kardashians are on tv and hover-boards are blowing up - no one really gives a shit..

I don't like asking it and I fear it as a real possibility, but is rock bottom our necessary evil??

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Reply As a country... do we need to hit rock bottom?? (Original post)
disillusioned73 Feb 2016 OP
daleanime Feb 2016 #1
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #2
disillusioned73 Feb 2016 #3
mmonk Feb 2016 #4
jillan Feb 2016 #16
n2doc Feb 2016 #5
disillusioned73 Feb 2016 #6
artislife Feb 2016 #7
JoeyT Feb 2016 #9
n2doc Feb 2016 #11
JoeyT Feb 2016 #13
draa Feb 2016 #8
BernieforPres2016 Feb 2016 #10
draa Feb 2016 #12
swilton Feb 2016 #14
Bernblu Feb 2016 #15
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #17

Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:30 AM

1. Ask me after the primary is over.....

might know by then.

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Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:30 AM

2. The problem with rock bottom...

is that it tends not to actually be as bad as it can get. A decade or so ago, I thought George Bush was rock bottom. Now I'm being proven wrong.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:33 AM

3. Good point..

 

Hard to watch though.. sometimes feels like I am in a twilight zone episode, my friends & family are very un-engaged to politics and thus hard to discuss with them..

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Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:39 AM

4. Either that or our media needs to change.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:23 AM

16. This! We need a modern day Cronkite Actually I would just settle for some news, not 24/7 spin.

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Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:39 AM

5. Most Americans have no idea what 'rock bottom' means

Aleppo:


Palestine:



Ukraine



South Sudan:




We have a long way to do. And we are traveling in the wrong direction if we want to avoid it.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:52 AM

6. Duely noted..

 

our rock bottom has always looked different - we are very fortunate.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:54 AM

7. Powerful images

 


And to answer the OP:

When I think of the difference of the planet from 2008 to now, I am astounded. This election feels like the last chance for it. And it may be too late, anyway.

So I say vote FOR what you want for her. Because it is way past time of compromise.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:38 AM

9. And even without war zones or major conflicts,

hanging out in some of the developing countries will give you a hell of a sense of perspective about how far we've got left to go before we hit rock bottom.

Get outside the tourist zones in India, the Philippines, Mexico, or Brazil and you'll see just how bad it can get. No war necessary.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:54 AM

11. Yep. War just speeds the process along

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Response to n2doc (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:11 PM

13. The Philippines is actually where I was.

I was the foreman on a commercial project there. I didn't make shit for money, because I spent everything I made buying safety equipment for my guys. "Knowing with absolute certainty you'll be blind by 30" isn't an acceptable safety risk for work.

Even though they were getting paid way WAY better than the average for the area, it was still about a fifth what it pays in the US. I felt terrible about it, because they were thrilled to get that much. Which is what the right wing wants for all of us in the US. Take your scraps and be grateful for them.

It should also offer a preview of what the right wing will get if they ever get their way. We were considered rich enough of a kidnapping target we had to have two armed guards with automatic weapons present at all times. Everything has armed guards there. The mall security had shotguns and SMGs, fer chrissake, and I wasn't even in the roughest city there by a long shot. You'd think being willing to pay a bit more for workers and taxes would be worth not having to worry about getting your kid's ear in the mail, but apparently not.

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Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:14 AM

8. For many of us we're already too damn close.

But sometimes you have to give up ground to make any headway. I'm willing to set thing back even further if it means coming out the other side in better shape.

Either way, Clinton will never get my vote because I'm not voting for a lying corrupt politician. Or the people who currently support them in the Democratic Party. That entire group can kiss my ass. Repeatedly.

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Response to draa (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:42 AM

10. I am with you

It may already be too late, but if we don't go in Bernie's direction and at least stop the decline of the poor and middle class, there will be another major economic, and likely social, crisis in the next 4 years. I would rather see the Clintons lose control of the Democratic Party after a loss by her in the general election and have the next collapse happen under a Republican President. I won't vote for a Republican in the general election if Hillary is the nominee. I will either write in Bernie or vote Green Party.

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:57 AM

12. I'm not planning on voting Republican either,

but I'm just going to say it and get it over with: this country deserves Donald J Trump. He's the perfect microcosm of politics and life in general. He's a joke but so are the people that protect a broken system.

As I said, I still haven't decided what I'm doing other than leaving the Democratic Party after 30+ years and using my vote as a protest vote against the entire system. That's the least they deserve.

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Response to draa (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 04:42 PM

14. I'm there with you also

 

Clinton will never get my vote. Her policies alone are exhibit A, then add to that Bill and Chelsea in the WH as exhibits B and then finally you have the list of scandals ad nauseam as exhibit C. With exhibits A and B she would be no better than Trump and exhibit C means she would get nothing out of a Republican controlled Congress. And a Republican controlled Congress is certain to come to pass with her heading a Democratic Party ticket and all the progressive voters sit this one out.

The fact that just this week Obama was testing the waters with a pro-corporate Republican Governor nominee to the USSC puts to rest any notion of protecting the Supreme Court.....I don't give a xxxxxxxxxx about the three dimensional chess, we saw this one coming with putting SS on the table and taking the health insurance public option off the table among other examples.

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Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:16 AM

15. Perhaps, Americans are a politically ignorant and naive people

who do not act in their own self interest. Bernie is giving them a way out but they do not see it because they are confused by the media and their own lack of political knowledge and naivety. Unfortunately, it may take another economic collapse to focus them on the need to change the corrupt status-quo.

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Response to disillusioned73 (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:07 AM

17. sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now

 

climate change is speeding up

and some here believe hillay's measured steps are all we should hope for

it is going to hurt when we hit the bottom - and we are falling fast

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