Sun Apr 12, 2015, 04:55 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
Harry Truman on liberals and fake Democrats.Last edited Sun Apr 12, 2015, 07:57 AM - Edit history (2)
I just read a reply to me in GD from LongTomH: It said, in its entirety:
Remember Harry Truman: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026486649#post40 This post is long, but most of the length is comprised of Truman's speech, quoted below in its entirety. If you want to read it all, it's there for you. If not, read just the bolded parts. If not, read just the part that is both bolded and underlined. In the part of the speech quoted in LongTomH's reply to me, Truman was giving hell to the right of his own Party. Most historians consider him one of the 10 best Presidents in all of US history. Like all Presidents, including those historians rank "best," Truman sure had his flaws, including attacking FDR's first Vice President, Henry A. Wallace, using nuclear weapons unnecessarily and the insanity of the deceptively-named "Cold" War, including the Korean War and involving us in Vietnam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_A._Wallace For center right Democrats today who object to being told they are not "real" Democrats, I can only wish HST were still here so you could take it up with him. Today's left did not invent that term. I don't know if Truman, one of this nation's many Cold War warriors invented it or whether he merely popularized it. However, Truman beat Thurmond from the right of the Democratic Party, Wallace from the left of the Democratic Party, the Socialist Party candidate, the Socialist Labor Party candidate, the Socialist Workers' Party candidate and the Prohibition Party candidate and Dewey. My guess is that Truman defeated all seven without whining much, if at all, about being challenged in the general by"third" parties, including by two parties formed from within his own party and another three parties challenging from the left. BTW, according to Oliver Stone, we had helped Ho Chi Minh during World War II, so he could help us, then Truman turned down his request for help against a corrupt regime after World War II ended because we were already helping his opposition. Seem like familiar pattern at all? But, I digress. Whatever his faults, Truman was correct about "real" Democrats, despite employing the "no true Scotsman logical fallacy" to make his point. 'Cause if you ain't a real Democrat, you just may be a....coming way too close for comfort to Truman's description of Republican. Also, please note, Truman's speech is being made to Americans for Democratic Action, a liberal, and originally bipartisan organization later smeared ala McCarthy. At some point, they succeeded in making any reference to the "ADA" code for "Red." (Of course that was before Red China became simply China, where our jobs and many of our debts now live. Joke's on the 99%!). As for the reference in Truman's speech to Eisenhower, bear in mind: In 1945 Truman told Eisenhower during the Potsdam Conference that if desired, the president would help the general win the 1948 election,[94] and in 1947 he offered to run as Eisenhower's running mate on the Democratic ticket if MacArthur won the Republican nomination. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower And now, Truman's speech in its entirety: 129. Address at the National Convention Banquet of the Americans for Democratic Action end of Truman's speech. Now to be pre-emptive: I expect someone will mention that Adlai Stevenson lost after this speech of Truman's and imply or assert that Stevenson lost because he was the kind of "real" Democrat about whom Truman spoke. Horse puckies. Stevenson was a brilliant man, and most likely a very decent one, but had next to no crowd appeal or charisma. He could not sell himself or his ideas, as this speech of Truman's says is a necessity. Also, Stevenson advocated for civil rights when that was the kiss of death with the South, very much including Southern Democrats. Additionally, Stevenson lost, soon after World War II, to Eisenhower, the biggest U.S. World War II hero still standing (Truman having fired MacArthur). This was a time when the "Communist menace" was portrayed as even more of a threat than Al Q'aeeda was following 911, thanks in part to atomic weapons, Truman's Korean War, the "Communist menace" and the rest of the insanity of the so-called "Cold" War. Every American was being urged to build a bomb shelter on his or her property. There was a government program for it. School children were participating in regular bomb drills, in which the children's defense to an atomic attack was supposed to be to dive under the desk and put their hands over their heads or to line up and proceed in orderly fashion to the basement of the school. (No, really. That was it.) I am sure there was a lot more to Stevenson's loss, like money, media, etc. And Truman's speech alludes to media, too. But, not having lived it or researched it, those are the factors that leap to my mind without even five minutes' thought. Anyone who tries to sell the idea that loss of an election, especially a Presidential election, is due to one factor is either not up on very many facts, or not thinking critically, or is trying to fool you/us. Especially if that one factor is either an allegedly "damaging primary" or a "too liberal" stance on the part of the candidate whose loss they are trying to "politicalsplain" to you. Jobs, safety nets, benefits to workers and their families, affordable housing, the Bill of Rights, affordable education and the like never lost votes---at least, not without a lot of help from people like the Kochs, anyway. And I don't mean only Republicans or rightist Libertarians. (Please don't misunderstand me. Nothing is wrong with inheriting or making money, per se.). As for Henry Wallace, according to Oliver Stone, the business Wallace had started sold for 9 billion bucks in 1999, when a billion was still almost real money. So much for Wallace's being an visionary, not "pragmatic" and "probably" a Communist and traitor. (Up yours, J. Edgar and Joe McCarthy and everyone like you. sincerely yours, merrily XOXO).
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20 replies, 3401 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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merrily | Apr 2015 | OP |
Scuba | Apr 2015 | #1 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #2 | |
Cryptoad | Apr 2015 | #3 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #5 | |
Enthusiast | Apr 2015 | #4 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #6 | |
Martin Eden | Apr 2015 | #7 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #8 | |
RiverLover | Apr 2015 | #9 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #10 | |
L0oniX | Apr 2015 | #20 | |
aspirant | Apr 2015 | #11 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #12 | |
aspirant | Apr 2015 | #13 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #14 | |
aspirant | Apr 2015 | #15 | |
merrily | Apr 2015 | #18 | |
Doctor_J | Apr 2015 | #16 | |
LongTomH | Apr 2015 | #17 | |
L0oniX | Apr 2015 | #19 |
Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 07:20 AM
Cryptoad (8,254 posts)
3. Condense ! nt
Response to Cryptoad (Reply #3)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 07:43 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
5. Thanks for the directive. Truman speech takes up most of the post. Feel free to skim it.
I suggested near the beginning of the post that some people might want to read only the parts of his speech that I bolded. That's why I took the time and trouble to bold.
I'll put more space at the top and bottom of the speech, so that it's clearer to readers how much of the post is his speech. |
Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 07:24 AM
Enthusiast (50,983 posts)
4. If only we had such a bully pulpit today.
We know what the electorate wants to hear. But for the huge donors that insist on having their way, the electorate could hear these things again.
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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #4)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 08:02 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
6. That's why I have to smile at the suggestions that the left of the left posting here is being paid.
Very few, if any, with enough money to pay posters to spread propaganda today are going to pay the left of the left to post their populist views. If anything, they'd pay NOT to have those views brought to the attention of voters
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Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 08:20 AM
Martin Eden (11,463 posts)
7. Thanks, that was an excellent speech ...
... and extremely relevant 63 years later.
For example, "partisan politics should stop at the waters' edge" applies to the R's attempts to sabotage the nuclear arms treaty with Iran. |
Response to Martin Eden (Reply #7)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 08:55 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
8. Yes, Not my purpose in posting the speech, but I did notice it.
I wondered if he was the first to say it.
On the other hand, with the internet, I am not sure "water's edge" is as relevant as it was in 1930s and 1940s. However, that dumbass letter about Iran is in a whole different category than merely criticizing the foreign policy of the POTUS. MO, it crossed a line about a propriety, maybe even a constitutional line. The constitution is pretty clear that conducting foreign relations is for the POTUS, with an ability to advise and consent (or not) to the actions of the POTUS in the Senate. |
Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 09:28 AM
RiverLover (7,830 posts)
9. "People don't want a phony Democrat"
We don't want them, and we keep getting them as DNC leaders. We can no longer legitimately claim to be the party that stands against Wall Street corruption, off-shoring American jobs, destruction of unions & labor rights, war for profit & global domination, poisoning of land, water, & air, massive government surveillance, privatization of education & public works, corporate welfare...
I can't take much more of this, if we keep it up. Thanks for a great post merrily. Another reminder of what our (once) great party once did for America. I wasn't aware of Truman's positions at all. The speech of his that you posted was/is phenomenal. ![]() |
Response to RiverLover (Reply #9)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 09:42 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
10. I don't even know what a legitimate claim ever was
We've been brainwashed, lied to and propagandized so much by government, no matter who is in control, media, etc. Every now and again, an Ellsberg or a Snowden or a Manning puts himself or herself at great personal risk and we get some specifics. But what the hell can we do about it?
If you get a chance to Season 1 of the series Oliver Stone did for the Showtime network, seize that chance (but keep some antacid handy). I think it's called Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States, or something like that. As for Truman, yes a great speech. But, as the beginning of my post said, every President has been problematic, including Truman. It may even be mo greatness, mo problems. Then again, we got plenty of problems with Dimson and he sure was not great. Sigh. |
Response to RiverLover (Reply #9)
Mon Apr 13, 2015, 07:21 PM
L0oniX (31,493 posts)
20. It's gotten so bad that I am actually finding republicans that agree with me about the 1%.
Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 09:51 AM
aspirant (3,533 posts)
11. On major legislation
we MUST have a NATIONAL VOTE.
No matter how we get there, it has to be done. Corporations and bribed politicians must answer to the people beyond elections |
Response to aspirant (Reply #11)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 09:55 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
12. Federal referenda? Technologically possible. Plutocrats will never allow it, though.
Catch 22: In order to get this, you'd have to have in office people who actually want to represent the majority of the US population. So far, no one in power has wanted that, including the Framers.
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Response to merrily (Reply #12)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 10:06 AM
aspirant (3,533 posts)
13. The framers
lived in 18th century, this is the 21st. We have gone past the horse and buggy and the pony express is almost a laughable memory.
I don't care if the plutocrats won't allow it, if there is a will there is a way. This defeatist, we can't do it attitude will eventually put us all in slavery. |
Response to aspirant (Reply #13)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 10:08 AM
merrily (45,251 posts)
14. Any specific suggestions for achieving the goal of federal referenda then?
And for raising the necessary funds to seek your goal?
Far be it from me to enslave anyone, but I think reality is a good starting point. |
Response to merrily (Reply #14)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 10:26 AM
aspirant (3,533 posts)
15. Reality is ever changing,
just take a good look at what the effects of the TPP will be, a different reality for sure
We can start by getting our Populist candidates on board with a national vote, maybe even Bernie could be convinced to debate it. How about state referendums on the issue to get increased exposure. DU can be a wonderful free think tank if asked. Are you suggesting banning volunteers to buttress the corporatists propaganda that nothing can be achieved without mega-bucks, so don't even try. |
Response to aspirant (Reply #15)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 11:50 PM
merrily (45,251 posts)
18. Yes, I believe strongly in working through states.
Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 12:05 PM
Doctor_J (36,392 posts)
16. Obama ran as a real democrat, governed as a republican, with predictable results for
the party. The only question is was it planned this way by the actual rulers of the country, or was the Obama era just a disaster?
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Response to merrily (Original post)
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 01:56 PM
LongTomH (8,636 posts)
17. K&R for truth
Looks like my little post did start something......and I'm glad!
Harry did a lot that was wrong; but he did do a lot that was right: Integrating the armed forces; "The Square Deal" I'll leave it to someone more erudite in political history to finish the list. |