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Mon Jun 29, 2015, 11:49 AM

So what's an AR15 good for?

After WWII the defense industry looked into improving the infantry small arms inventory. It established a group to study the battlefield casualties and make recommendations for improving battle effectiveness.

After studying millions of casualties of battlefield gunfire it was determined that most wounds were not a result of carefully aimed fire, occurred from 100 meters or closer and multiple wounds were more effective than carefully aimed single shot injuries.

Simply put, volume was more important than skill.

Several weapons were evaluated and the Armalite model 15 was awarded the winning bid. It was light, fired up to 700 rounds a minute (M16 full auto model), ammunition was half the weight of the M14 it replaced allowing troops to carry more of it and was useful up to 300 meters. However the military found that at distances beyond 150 meters many shots were deflected by minor obstacles like windshields. This lead to the development of the M855 green tip round that has a steel insert in the bullet to prevent deformation and deflection at extended ranges.

After the Vietnam conflict it was determined that the number of rounds fired to create an enemy casualty was in the thousands due to the fully automatic rate of fire and the natural propensity to "spray and pray" under combat conditions. As a result the next generation rifle and the current M4 was reduced from full auto to "burst" mode firing only three rounds per trigger pull.

Because of the light weight projectile and very high velocity (3000 + feet per second vs 2600 FPS for the M14) many states prohibit the 55 gr .223 round as a humane hunting round. The lightweight projectile and loss of ballistic energy past a few hundred yards making it ineffective for long range target or varmint shooting (although very few people participate in 1000 yard competition). Also because of its very high velocity it is capable of penetrating an intruder's body and then interior walls and still inflicting lethal injuries after doing so make it less than desirable for home defense.

So, what is it good for? For doing what the military specified; firing a large volume of high velocity projectiles at close range to inflict the maximum number of injuries as quickly as possible. It was designed to military specifications for use by infantry soldiers and paramilitary police officers who have been trained in the use of such weapons. Its lethality in close quarters is only limited by the shooter's physical strength to carry ammunition.

That's what it is good for.

Yet anyone with a few hundred dollars can walk into Walmart and buy one without training or instruction.

There is something wrong with this system.





11 replies, 2310 views

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply So what's an AR15 good for? (Original post)
flamin lib Jun 2015 OP
HassleCat Jun 2015 #1
flamin lib Jun 2015 #7
HassleCat Jun 2015 #8
Malraiders Jun 2015 #2
flamin lib Jun 2015 #3
Malraiders Jun 2015 #5
flamin lib Jun 2015 #6
iscooterliberally Jun 2015 #4
jimmy the one Jun 2015 #9
flamin lib Jun 2015 #10
jimmy the one Jul 2015 #11

Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 11:56 AM

1. Fun to shoot

 

A couple of my cousins have the cheap Chinese AK-47 knockoff versions, which are not fully automatic, of course. They like to spend an afternoon firing as fast as they can into the hillside, burning up $300 worth of ammo. The AK knockoff fires a .30 caliber round, so they can be used for deer hunting, if you ignore the terrible trigger pull, lousy sights, sloppy accuracy, etc. I know people who actually like them for deer hunting, because they can jerk off 20 or 30 rounds at a running deer, figuring the odds are with them if they fill the air with led. Of course, they prefer to live in trailer houses and watch Fox News, too, so go figure.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 03:05 PM

7. "jerk off 20 or 30 rounds"

jerk off just about says it all.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 03:18 PM

8. Unintentional but OK

 

Yeah. When I re-read that, I though about editing it out, but thought I'd let it stand because it is accurate.

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Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 11:58 AM

2. The AR15 is not a military or an automatic rifle. eom

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Response to Malraiders (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 12:12 PM

3. The AR15 is the civilian version of the M16 and is semiautomatic.

but you knew that, didn't you? Just had to stick you're two cents worth in didn't ya?

Enjoy your (short) stay.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 01:34 PM

5. I was just trying to correct your mis statements. I apologize if

you find my post offensive.

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Response to Malraiders (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 02:41 PM

6. I made no misstatements. You made up some shit and posted it here.

I was careful to note the M16 as the military full auto version. The AR15 was the base platform presented to the military as a "prototype" (please note quotation marks) for the new infantry weapon. But you ignored that, didn't you. Winchester also provided a prototype based on the M14 (known now as the Mini14) as did others. The AR made the cut.

You are here to manufacture some sort of defense for selling a gun designed by the military for the military to civilians without training or instruction by making a small modification to the firing function.

Worse than that you are here to derail any discussion of whether such weapons should be available to the public at large by leading the thread down a rabbit hole of minutea of full vs semi when even the pentagon no longer believes full auto infantry rifles are a good idea. That is why current infantry weapons fire a burst of three rounds and squads are issued a SAW for suppressing fire.

Let us make no mistake about why you are here, okay?

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Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 12:30 PM

4. I suppose it's a fashion statement?

I mean if you want to hang with these folks, you have to be properly dressed right?



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Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:25 PM

9. low recoil makes it more accurate

Because of the light weight projectile and very high velocity {~3,000 fps} many states prohibit the 55 gr .223 round as a humane hunting round. The lightweight projectile and loss of ballistic energy past a few hundred yards..

It also has very low recoil compared with conventional rifles which generally give a 'rifle rise' causing shooter to have to reaim his rifle, due to heavier bullets. The ar15 has such little recoil a normal man can simply hold it steady in both hands & shoot quite accurately at his targets without fear of much recoil, as whatshisname did at newtown killing 20 kids.
That & the ar15 is capable of being converted to full automatic, which is why the thing has such potential it should be banned (tho very few gun owners would want to convert it to full auto since illegal, just that it could be done).

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:46 PM

10. It can also simulate full auto with a rubber band.

Stretch the rubber band around the trigger then forward around the magazine and back to the trigger. Place right trigger finger on the trigger and gently pull the gun forward with the left hand until it fires. The recoil resets the trigger and it fires again. Gets close to 500 rounds a minute and it's legal.

Not accurate but as the Pentagon found accuracy and skill is secondary to volume. I can't imagine why a real shooting enthusiast would want one of these.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:59 PM

11. destructive bullet

Something new to learn, thanks, er, in a sense. There are also some conversion kits I believe, or a method by filing something down to allow full auto; tho at least 98% of American gun owners wouldn't want to do that, illegal for one, unwanted as a waste of ammo another (bullet costs about 50c to $1 each)
I wanted to (cautiously) post a couple wound pictures, with warnings, but alas those domains are blocked here at the library. Here's a USA today article/description from 2002 (still valid) from the beltway snipers:

Famous for its use in the military's M-16 rifle, the .223-caliber round is known for causing extensive tissue damage, says surgeon.. Like all high-velocity bullets, the .223 slug passes through the body with an accompanying shock wave that whipsaws blood vessels and organ tissue that are inches away from the bullet. The "cavitation," or cavity, caused by the high-velocity shock wave may briefly expand the diameter of the bullet hole almost 2 inches, about 10 times the width of the slug itself, before it collapses behind, tearing tissue further.
.. In contrast, low-velocity rounds used in many handguns pack less of a punch and follow a straighter path. "A bullet from a .22 rifle or .38-caliber handgun can go right next to the aorta and be all right," says Maier. "With a .223, if it gets within 3 inches, it's a disaster."
.. The shock wave damages soft tissue such as the brain immensely. Anyone receiving a head wound loses motor function almost immediately.. Soft organs such as the liver also fare badly; more elastic tissues such as the lungs or stomach survive the shock better {and adipose/fatty}.

Heavier bullets, such as those fired by the popular .30-06 hunting rifle, may deliver more of a punch, says rifle wound expert .. But "the .223 breaks up more than other bullets," After it hits someone, the .223 round tumbles and fragments as it punches deeper into the body, multiplying the damage.
If fired as a military round, with a "full metal jacket" {FMJ} of steel or copper covering the round, it may turn sideways and break in two after hitting someone. Because the sniper's bullets appear to have fragmented a great deal, it seems likely he is using hunting rounds

During the Vietnam War, surgeons learned that if soldiers reached the hospital alive, they often survived {well, DUH}. If the system responds quickly with paramedics or a helicopter lift to the hospital, the same may be true today {double DUH}
.. Surgeons systematically look for the largest bullet fragments and begin clamping torn blood vessels and repairing torn tissues, starting with the ones that cause the most bleeding. Occasionally that may mean removing an organ the victim can live without, like the spleen or a kidney.
Surgeons treating the sniper's victims face another challenge: They need to recover bullet fragments. "In general, we don't go after bullet fragments unless there is no risk,"
.. the fragments {could} represent important clues to still-unsolved murders, so the surgeons have carefully placed them into evidence bags for use in the investigation.

The aftermath In the weeks following surgery, patients face additional problems. There is the risk of infection and possible organ failure triggered by shock and blood loss.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-10-22-bullets-usat_x.htm


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