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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:18 PM

President Clinton and Gun Control

It has been insinuated on another thread that in his biography, President Clinton blames the 1994 Congressional loss to Republicans on the power of the NRA and his support of the Brady Bill and the AWB:

Just to point out a few facts about this thinly-veiled NRA propaganda piece: with a few minor changes the Brady Bill remains as the law of the land until today, and the AWB lasted for ten years, when it was allowed to expire in 2004. The gun control legislation proposed by President Clinton in 1994 was enacted into law. What President Clinton actually said in his book was: "The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=625308

The NRA claimed that they accomplished this coup all on their own, when in fact it was President Clinton's healthcare bill that had the neocons' knickers in a knot. The NRA just piled on and took credit for something that would have happened in any event due to the carefully orchestrated neocon propaganda campaign against the healthcare initiative (which unlike the Brady Bill, did NOT become law).

The neocon-funded NRA propaganda machine began a campaign of outright lies, and claimed that the Democratic Party was "comin' to git yur guns," and that remains as the gun lobby's main point of disinformation to the present day. When Democrats repeat and reinforce this lie on a Democratic discussion board, it needs to be countered.

With organizations like Americans for Responsible Solutions (Gabby and Mark Giffords) the NRA lies and misinformation are being countered and proven to be false. The American people are beginning to see the NRA and its apologists for what they really are: neoconservative corporate shills, and fear-mongers-for-profit. The NRA is an insidious and anti-American organization funded by the Koch Brothers and other ultra-neoconservatives like them.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply President Clinton and Gun Control (Original post)
billh58 Oct 2013 OP
flamin lib Oct 2013 #1
jimmy the one Oct 2013 #2
billh58 Oct 2013 #4
rdharma Oct 2013 #3
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #7
rdharma Oct 2013 #13
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #17
rdharma Oct 2013 #18
CTyankee Oct 2013 #5
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #6
billh58 Oct 2013 #8
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #9
billh58 Oct 2013 #10
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #15
billh58 Oct 2013 #11
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #12
billh58 Oct 2013 #14
Ranchemp. Oct 2013 #16
Kingofalldems Nov 2013 #19
billh58 Nov 2013 #20
Kingofalldems Nov 2013 #21

Response to billh58 (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:50 PM

1. K&R

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Response to billh58 (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:17 PM

2. more 2ndA mythology

It's another verse from some chapter in the 2nd Amendment Mythology Bible, bill. The nra will disregard most all other more poignant reasons & single out their pro gun efforts for republican successes, in their drunken gun addicted logic.

But one lesson needs to be resisted: The idea that passing a more expansive gun control law in 1994 came back to bite Democrats in the midterm elections.
... were guns really the issue in 1994? U.S. News & World Report (1/17/13) runs down some of the research, which points out that most of the seats lost were in Republican-leaning districts, and there were a number of other big issues–including the healthcare debate, NAFTA and a soft economy. Writing in the American Prospect (2/22/12), Paul Waldman took a look at some of these NRA myths.
New York Times editorial page (5/9/09), Dorothy Samuels wrote: The {AWB} law certainly enraged many NRA members and might explain the loss of certain Democratic seats. However, there were other major factors in the Democrats' 1994 loss, starting with perceived Democratic arrogance and corruption.. Add to that voter unhappiness with Mr. Clinton's budget, his healthcare fiasco, the Republican Party's success in recruiting appealing candidates, and that ingenious Republican vehicle for nationalizing the elections known as the "Contract With America." The contract, by the way, did not mention guns.
As Waldman argues, the people who most loudly champion the electoral power of the National Rifle Association are the National Rifle Association. These mythologies shouldn't be treated as facts.

http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/04/19/democrats-cant-blame-guns-for-94-losses/

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:21 PM

4. Thanks for this

JTO. The NRA and its apologists attempt to take credit for every Democratic loss in the country, and they are just not that influential (except in their own, and their cultists', minds).

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Response to billh58 (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:19 PM

3. How did the NRA do in the last election cycle?

 

The NRA sure didn't get much for their money!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:12 PM

7. Not too well.

 

They pretty much got jack for the money spent.

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:30 PM

13. I love that!

 

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Response to rdharma (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:36 PM

17. You've got to believe that their members, whom the money came from,

 

were not to pleased with the returns on their investment.

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:41 PM

18. That sucks, eh?

 

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Response to billh58 (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:05 PM

5. I can no longer take at face value the statements by pro-gunners here on DU.

That is sad to say, but I have learned through sad experience that I simply must check out every one that I read.

I hope this is due to their being duped by the NRA (whom they say they do not support) and not by out and out lying with full knowledge that they ARE lying.

I don't feel that way about any other single group here but it is a sad fact....every time I check one of their "facts" out I find it not to be so.

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Response to billh58 (Original post)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:09 PM

6. You left this part out.

 

"Just before the House vote (on the crime bill), Speaker Tom Foley and majority leader Dick Gephardt had made a last-ditch appeal to me to remove the assault weapons ban from the bill. They argued that many Democrats who represented closely divided districts had already...defied the NRA once on the Brady bill vote. They said that if we made them walk the plank again on the assault weapons ban, the overall bill might not pass, and that if it did, many Democrats who voted for it would not survive the election in November. Jack Brooks, the House Judiciary Committee chairman from Texas, told me the same thing...Jack was convinced that if we didn't drop the ban, the NRA would beat a lot of Democrats by terrifying gun owners....Foley, Gephardt, and Brooks were right and I was wrong. The price...would be heavy casualties among its defenders." (Pages 611-612)

"On November 8, we got the living daylights beat out of us, losing eight Senate races and fifty-four House seats, the largest defeat for our party since 1946....The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage...." (Pages 629-630)


Why?
It seems that President Clinton agrees that the NRA was a very big part of the loss of the Senate and House in '94.
Whom should we believe? An anonymous internet poster? Or the man who was there?

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:16 PM

8. You may continue to

promote the NRA's self-proclaimed power and influence, but you would do well to remember which Group you are posting to. You sound very familiar. What was your previous DU screen name?

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Response to billh58 (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:18 PM

9. I'm not promoting anything.

 

I'm pointing out that you left out part of his statement.
What was your previous DU screen name?

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:25 PM

10. You disrupted

a Tom Foley tribute thread to post this NRA garbage, and now you are disrupting this Group by promoting the supposed "power" of the NRA as a fear tactic against Democratic-supported gun control efforts. You are as transparent as glass.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:32 PM

15. Disrupting to you,

 

asking pertinent questions to others.

Why did you leave that part of his statement out?

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:27 PM

11. I've had this

same screen name since 2005 Bubba.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:30 PM

12. What was it before 2005?

 

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:30 PM

14. Have you brushed

all of the dirt off of yourself yet?

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Response to billh58 (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:33 PM

16. Took a shower this morn,

 

have you brushed off yourself yet?
Have a good day, I'm outta here.

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:49 PM

19. You seem like a big fan of the NRA.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:38 PM

20. This one tries very

hard to play the "I'm really on your side" card, but it's apparent that's just an act to build a post count and become pizza proof. Didn't work so well for some other Gungeoneers with very high post counts, but it's fun to watch.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 12:59 PM

21. +1

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