HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Gender & Orientation » History of Feminism (Group) » I was looking around the ...

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 03:37 PM

I was looking around the Internet

At arguments about pornography, both pro and con. As a disclaimer, I'll say I dislike most porn and find it exploitative and racist. How much that opinion is affected by the fact I don't find it erotic either is perhaps, an open question. Perhaps not.

Part of the problem on a moderated, or jury decided site in discussing porn, is you can't link to porn itself. I could try of course to list titles, but those too would be found offensive, and this post would be locked.

So why is this? A case could be made that I would cherry pick titles that offend, but I believe these titles are representative of pornography. Cherry picking coy innocent titles is just as disingenuous.

Anyway, as I said, I was looking at pros and cons of pornography as well as the history (and no, while I don't believe at the Venus figure was meant to be an erotic one, this doesn't mean there weren't erotic figurines of the time)

What's left out of the recaps of historical porn as well as historical prostitution, is the expected role of women of the time. Pro-porn advocates point out erotic figures and images have always been with us, while completely ignoring women's history. And I mean not a word. Nada, zip nothing. I'm sure there are decent articles with the role of women out there, but are there any on the pro- porn side?

Why do you suppose? Is it possible, they are unaware? Such passionate defense of pornography, and let's add prostitution for fun, with NO awareness of women's history?

What I would love to say right now, is that I'm wrong, but I don't think so. I truly don't.

5 replies, 1546 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 5 replies Author Time Post
Reply I was looking around the Internet (Original post)
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 OP
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #1
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #2
seabeyond Nov 2012 #3
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #5
redqueen Nov 2012 #4

Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 04:06 PM

1. The way I see it - and having made a huge thread over it...


Is that porn is inevitable. At the end of the day, we're social primates, and monkeys really do enjoy watching each other have sex. I won't speculate on what goes on in the head of the average baboon, but they do stand around watching troupe members get it on. No matter what our societies through history condemn, we've always done the same, even if only by proxy (i.e., pornography)

Basically, pornography is just going to be a part of the human condition; we're a species that creates representative art, and we're a species that thinks sex is really fun. Put 'em together, and it's just unavoidable.

However, that doesn't mean that pornography must be exploitative. That's an add-on, a cultural artifact of both fear of all sexuality, and general misogyny. And yet as you note, much of the porn you can find today adheres to these artifacts in some way or another. Not all, granted, but you have to actively search for the exceptions, while the rest just falls into your lap.. .so to speak.

What I'm curious about is how to fix the problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 04:45 PM

2. What's erotic is subjective

Last edited Fri Nov 23, 2012, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Most porn is kind of dull and I wonder if that isn't why there seems to be a demand for more extreme types.

To fix it, oy. I don't know. There is the occasional random scenes in movies, I'm thinking of two by Robert Rodriguez of all people, on in "Desperado" and another in "Planet Terror" while they didn't show much in the way of nudity and were very short scences, were quite erotic.

It had to do with the setting, the lighting and hints of activity. I think the charectors being reciprocal, without being cheesy (even in a Rodriguez film) helped as well. That isn't to say what's erotic shouldn't or wouldn't include nudity, or explicit acts.

It is a problem.

Young people are learning 'how to' about sex via pornagraphy. I was talking to a community health nurse who said they're going straight to sex toys, not understanding the build up before release. A bit scary. Then you have the recent religious oppression revival types with their resistance to sex education and 'purity balls' Where do you think those kids are going to go?

As an interesting aside, a fairly new genre of books--urban fantasy uses the erotic a lot, although most of it seems to be sexist old fashioned bodice rippers only with werewolves and vampires insread of cowboys and pirates. Many of these books are written by women, and a few of these women seem to be able to stay erotic without being exploitative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:58 PM

3. how do you know the monkeys "enjoy" watching sex?


are you injecting your very today, human perception on what the monkey is thinking, feeling?

lets say a couple monkeys start getting it on. amongst a group of monkeys. and they watch. so? lets say they are standing around, and a couple monkeys start playing tag, or something and they watch. so?

the point is, are they watching cause they necessarily are into watching "sex" in the context of porn that we are discussing? or, are they looking at an activity that is no more a big deal than any other activity. cause to them, sex is a no big deal to do. it is an urge, with none of our human conditioning involved.

see, this is where i have an issue. if the monkeys were standing there watching, grabbing their very little penis's, grabbing a mate to get it on, then there would be some correlation between watching in a porn like manner, or standing there while a couple monkeys are getting it on. and having nothing to do with our porn like attitude of gotta watch a sex act.

there are more than plenty of people that are not into watching a sex act. i have never felt the need or even necessarily the desire. i have. i get off in a few minutes, done, thanks... big deal. but, i dont particularly want to watch someone do it. plenty of people dont necessarily want to watch another do it. voyerism has never been my thing. i much rather do than watch. i read a book, and i dont need to read the sex scenes. boring. what can they say that hasnt been said and done a zillion times. peruse to get back to the story.

again, another projection of assuming....

before porn was accessible, there were people for a lifetime going without it.

now.... we all gotta have it cause it is nature and we really need to watch.

we make things up today, and call it fact.

putting up christmas tree and other stuff. this is a mess of a post. just wanted to throw a little out their, on all the assumptions you make viewing thru your own lens, wanting to draw a line to your conclusion. hasnt convinced me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to seabeyond (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:20 PM

5. Like i said, I don't know what's going in in the brain of a baboon


Perhaps I shouldn't have said "they like to watch" or whatever. But they do watch. And they seem pretty fascinated by what they see. Social animals tend to have some predictable patterns in their behavior.

And of course, not everyone is "into" porn. I didn't say that. I simply said that it's a long-established part of human culture.

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said we've got to have it and we have to watch. Simply that it is an inevitable product of human societies. It may not be accessible to everyone, but it's always been there. Even the pilgrims were mouthbreathing over the Song of Solomon, you know?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:08 PM

4. I suppose it is possible. MRA types in particular are convinced that women are the oppressor class.

So they, at least, could make the argument that pornography is not exploitative or harmful while thinking that women's role in society is in no way in conflict with their pro porn ideas. And they view all women as prostitutes anyway.

I can't think of many others who could simultaneously claim that pornography and prostituion are not by nature exploitative and harmful given the status of women and our place in society.

Good question and insight. Interesting stuff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread