History of Feminism
Related: About this forumMale Asexuality and Its Challenge to Masculinity
An asexual man, particularly a celibate and/or sex-averse asexual man, is a bit like a symbol of religion in a fiercely atheistic society: some will dismiss him as a fantastical impossibility, while others will react with varying levels of animosity, out of the sense that he is an intrusion threatening the validity of their own worldview. In one corner, weve got the asexophobes who dont acknowledge that asexual men even exist, which is necessary to their general dismissal of asexuality as not a real orientation but simply a new way to label an exclusively female tendency toward disinterest in sex or sexual inexperience or repression. In another corner, weve got the asexophobes who accuse asexual men of: being too emasculated by exposure to feminism and feminist women to express their sexuality, being closeted homosexuals, being too socially inept or unattractive to obtain sex, etc. While many ignorant sexual people with little to no knowledge of asexuality often make the assumption that only women identify as asexual (which is in itself a roundabout expression of buying into the misogynistic stereotyping of women as naturally less sexual beings than men), others are downright angry at the idea of men identifying as asexual, and theyre especially angry at the idea of men having an enthusiastic aversion to sexual participation. Ive noticed that the sexual people who feel anger toward male asexuality are usually other men. The reason? Male asexuality is a powerful challenge to mainstream masculinity, which hasnt changed its attitudes toward male sexuality at all, even after three waves of feminism. No matter what else has changed about how we view men and women, masculinity and femininity, no matter how men have changed since the 1960s, one thing remains utterly the same: successful masculinity depends heavily upon the males active sexuality.
The role of sex in masculinity performance is connected to other important markers of successful masculinity: power, money, dominance, and the approval of other men. All one has to do is pay attention to mainstream media to see that we collectively associate sex with power and money, regardless of gender but especially for men. The more money a man has, the more powerful he is, the more sexually desirable he is. The more sex he has and the more sexual partners he has, the more masculine he is, which wins the approval not only of women but of other men. Sex is also a part of male dominance: over women, naturally, but also over other men, even when the man in question is heterosexual. In male society, men can have a sense of where they rank next to each other, based on these elements of masculinity. Sexual promiscuity is something to be proud of, if youre a man, while sexual inactivity is shameful. Men respect other men for their sexual accomplishments and disrespect men who dont measure up to a certain sexual standard. Men compete with each other sexually: who can rack up the higher number of sex partners, who can build the best reputation as a skilled lover, whos had sex with the most desirable women (or men), etc. They dominate one another with their sexual performance according to these parameters.
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One interesting observation Ive made is the way that certain sex-positive feminists or sex-positive people, who adopt their own feminism-disguised attitude of compulsory sexuality, actually (unintentionally) encourage and bolster the very patriarchal conceptualization of masculinity that includes compulsory sexuality and sexual performance as defining features of itself. Men dont have the same shame attached to their sexuality that women have, thus compulsory sexuality means something different for men than it does for women. Sex-positive feminists who pursue the idea of women having a lot of sex consistently as the expression of their empowerment, freedom, and rebellion against misogynistic control of female sexuality, without giving due respect to voluntary sexual inactivity, fail to realize that not only are they creating a new, unhealthy paradigm of sexuality for womenone that ironically circles back around to feed into rape culturebut that they are also affirming mainstream masculinitys compulsory sexuality tenet that plays a part in mens misogynistic treatment of women. The kind of compulsory sexuality that feminists recognize as overtly anti-woman is the kind that demands women be sexually available to all men, at all times, for the sake of pleasing the men. The kind of compulsory sexuality sprouting from sex-positive feminism is actually more along the lines of masculinitys compulsory sexuality: creating shame around not having sex, rather than having sex.
A man is never supposed to NOT be in the mood for sex. It doesnt matter if hes straight, gay, or bi. It also doesnt necessarily matter who the potential sex partner is. If someone offers a man sex, hes expected to enthusiastically want it. The idea of a man saying no to sex and meaning it is so unbelievable to us, as a society, that male rape victims are still often viewed as a myth. This is one of the more extreme consequences of the compulsory sexuality aspect of masculinity. A man cant say no, without failing at masculinity in the moment. For women, the issue of saying no is tied into the misogyny, compulsory heterosexuality, and rape culture of our society; it is more an issue of a womans no not meaning anything or having power, when she says it. For a man, no isnt even supposed to be in his vocabulary, when it comes to sex. We have men tied up in a situation where hes supposed to want sex constantly, having sex makes him more of a man, and hes also supposed to be incapable of emotional passion and intimacy outside of a sexual context. Saying no to sex, if youre a man, is a rejection of masculinity, love, and intimacynot just a no to the sex. Arguably, when women say no to sex, their femininity isnt in jeopardy. We encourage women to say no more, because saying no and having that respected, as a woman, is something weve had to learn that were entitled to do. But no ones encouraging men to say no to sex when they arent truly enthusiastic about it, are they? No ones even imagining that men want to say no, ever.
http://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/male-asexuality-and-its-challenge-to-masculinity/
the whole article is interesting.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)so much of what this person was saying is what we have said repeatedly, just was said in another way that was so articulate. but, it was when using the terms anti sex, prude, which the sex positive feminist has helped to cement, it is no different than using the term slut. it was said very well, and i really wanted to grab and post on this. alas, i could not find it.
reading in the feminist forum on the org that protests topless. protest objectification. topless. lol. a handful of young women, that must be "in shape" in case they have to run. ALL of it is about objectifying themselves to get attention, as the words they use says hu uh. like saying it will make it true. though in the article, the writer was sure to say, how disappointed the many male writers were to find out the women were not naked when giving the interview yet they persevered and tried not to show their disappointment.
really?
to stand there and say, i am going ot objectify myself to speak against objectification, so it is not really objectifying myself is beyond silly.
we have a brain. we have a voice. if we cannot get our message out using our brain and voice, then that needs to be addressed. cause we are certainly NOT being heard when we strip down.
(ok, rant, dont know why this goes with what you say).
these say we are a puritan people. when reality we are a sex obsessed people. allowing sex to define all that we are, both men and women. yet, re refuse to even think about it.
outsideworld
(601 posts)Article .Thanks for sharing
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and, welcome to du.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)My guess is that if a man presents himself to a doctor as 'asexual', they would run blood tests, especially testosterone levels, recommend counseling, subscribe Viagra and just in general freak out. Not being interested in sex is anathema in out society, male or female, although females are expected to be a lot more sexually passive. (Otherwise we're 'sluts' dontchaknow)
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)so often whatever i would do.... he would say, sex?
ok. not where i was at, but, you want to play i am game.
after years, this happened yet, there had been none of the signs we give off to wanting it and i asked. really? you really want sex? years into the marriage. lol. and he says, well, not really (i think he had a bad cold, late at night, hard day of work, really tired, nothing in it saying, ..... horney), i just say it cause it is expected of me.
i laughed, rolled the eyes and geeeeesh. such a guy.
ya, to what you say.
MysticLynx
(51 posts)Procreation is a natural and basic instinct, however as we evolve so do our basic needs. I personally think asexuality is for some that next step in evolution, moving beyond one of our simplistic basic drives.
Now if we could get people addressing their basic need of 'need' ie: greed we as a society may have hope yet.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i went thru a period learning how to "surrender". let go of the things i needed to.
not surrender in the victim weak.
but a funny along the way in this process. they biggest eye opener was surrendering to surrender.
because we condition that surrendering is a bad thing, when in reality, done grounded and balanced it is the healthiest. so stop fighting the surrending.
kinda like your addressing the basic need of need.
ChaoticTrilby
(211 posts)Plenty of asexuals have the "drive"...It's just not directed at any person/thing and they prefer to "satisfy" it on their own. To be asexual is to lack desire for sex with others. They may still have libido (though some sexuals/asexuals do lack that) but that doesn't keep them from not being interested in sex with anyone.
Also, as an asexual, I doubt that we're some "next step" in evolution. We're not X-Men any more than homosexuals or bisexuals are. In fact, you'll find some heavy objections around the asexual community if you suggest otherwise...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Asexuality is distinct from abstention from sexual activity and from celibacy, which are behavioral and generally motivated by factors such as an individual's personal or religious beliefs;[10] sexual orientation, unlike sexual behavior, is believed to be "enduring".[11] Some asexual people do engage in sexual activity despite lacking a desire for sex or sexual attraction, due to a variety of reasons, such as a desire to please romantic partners or a desire to have children.[6]
Only recently has asexuality started to become accepted as a sexual orientation and a field of scientific research,[4][6][12][13] and a growing body of research from both sociological and psychological perspectives has begun to coalesce.[6] While some researchers assert that asexuality is a sexual orientation, others disagree,[12] and various asexual communities have started to form since the advent of the Internet and social media. The most prolific and well-known of these communities has been the Asexual Visibility and Education Network (AVEN), which was founded in 2001.
thanks for sharing this.
MysticLynx
(51 posts)it did not quite come out the way I had intended, was not trying to imply some sort of deviation or something. I will leave it at that because the more I try to find a way to explain what I meant the less of a way I can find to explain it
ChaoticTrilby
(211 posts)I didn't really take any offense. I just thought I'd warn you about bringing up speculative evolution and asexuality around asexuals. It's starting to become a hotbutton issue in some ace (short for asexual) communities and I didn't want anyone else to get sucked into it.
You seem to accept us as we are anyway and that's what matters.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)Quite a bit. Everyday in fact. What's fun, is anticipation, because life does get in the way, whether it's work or health or mood or interruptions. You do what you can do.
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Well not exactly full. But there is no problem finding wives posting semi-annonymously about their Husband that has little/no interest in sex with them.
Remembering back we might talk that way, but actions were often different. Saying no to sex often implied you were thinking about more than just the here and now. Seems to me that for a guy, wearing a dress is an order of magnitude or more, worse than being asexual.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)of mens sexuailty there is today. it was around the 2000 with bushco macho. i started hearing this absurd caricature of male sexuality.
over the last handful of years it has gotten so extreme, and like you say, i was hearing more and more women complain that they werent getting it. they wanted more. as mens sexuality escalated in mythical heights and womens sexuality was more dismissed.... leaving a huge gap between the two.
it started dawning on me what we were doing, when one actually looked at reality, and then what we are creating. no way a man can live up to what culture is creating their sexuality as. there much be an even increasing pressure, already having a role of pressure when coming to their sexuality. but, i also see the reward in this falsely created illusion