This idea thst Bernie gets elected and all of the venal and craven aspects go away

[Cary]

Is ludicrous.

The Kochs are not going away any time soon regardless. There will be no radical change, only incremental change one way or the other.

There is nothing wrong with Bernie. Iike him a lot. I don't care who brings the change I simply don't want my country moving toward the right.

Perfection should never be the enemy of the good.

[daleanime]

1. You're right, the idea that it would go away is ludicrous...

just like the idea that if you give into it then it won't be so bad. Most of Bernie's supporters know that this is the fight to get to have the fight.

Now's you's back do you have?

[gwheezie]

2. If Bernie wins

He'll face at least the same obstruction Obama has.
I like Bernie. I'll vote for him if he's the nominee but I think it's terribly naive that some of his supporters think he's going to get much done without a brutal fight and losses.

[Kentonio]

34. Sure it'll be brutal, and there will doubtless be losses too

But I'd rather have a President that'll go into that fight swinging, than one who only wants to huddle up and hope they don't take any more damage. There will be no progress unless we fight for it.

[Eric J in MN]

64. You have a photo of Shirley Chisholm in your signature.

Would you say that Bernie Sanders is closest of this year's presidential candidates to her motto of "Unbought and Unbossed"?

[gwheezie]

68. I wouldn't compare the 2

Perhaps if she had stayed in politics long enough she would have become Hillary or Bernie. Bernie has put up a fight in his long career as a politician but I'm not sure what effect it has had in the long run. I quess we'll see if he becomes the next president. Imho it will depend on if he can also carry enough like minded people into Congress if he becomes president. I think it's doubtful he will be able to work with a resistant Congress. If Shirley had become president at that period in our history I suspect the whole political system would have had to change.
I don't think dems will keep the WH and if by chance we do, whoever it is will have a really tough time.

[brush]

128. I hope Bernie learns from Obama's early miscalculations . . .

of trying to work with the repugs (not knowing they had secretly, on his inaugural day in 2009, vowed to vote against everything he tried and make him a one term president), and moves swiftly to get whatever can be done in that short a time.

Our only hope is that Sanders has long enough coat tails that can sweep the many dems needed to win the House and Senate into office with him and not have to worry about trying to accomplish his whole agenda in a two-month window like Obama had, because the 2010 tricked-up, Tom Delay-gerrymandering of Congressional districts is still in effect.

In reality, there's not much chance of that happening so he'll have to figure out another way to get things done, much like Obama had to.

We can all go on and on and expound here about not wanting more tepid politics or another establishment candidate but we really have to face reality that until the 2020 Census and redistricting happens, there isn't much that can be done about the gerrymandering of Congressional districts that favor repugs. We all know that in 2014 dems got hundreds of thousands more total votes than repugs but because of certain manipulated districts stacked with enough repug voters, the republicans ended up in control of the House.

The Senate may be in play with Sanders' coat tails. Let's keep our fingers crossed but without both houses of Congress he'll be obstructed just as Obama has been, so again, I say if he accomplishes as much as Obama I'll be happy.

He's got my vote but I know what we're facing so I'm not thinking he's going bring about an immediate political revolution.

[gwheezie]

131. He's not my 1st choice but

He has been in government as an administrator and in both houses that I believe he knows how this works. I give him credit for his experience and I'm not so entrenched in "my side" that I dismiss the man's ability to do as much as he can get done. I neither predict a total failure or total victory of his agenda but I do predict he'll be damn better than anyone the GOP has running.
Obama wasn't my 1sr voice either but he's done a remarkable job in the face of determined obstruction and when I look back at his presidency, inspite of him not being my 1st choice, the right person did win. So no matter who is the dem nominee, I will trust and believe the right person won because I trust the dem voters. We aren't a band of lunatics.

[brush]

132. Likewise, I will gladly vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Yes you are right. Better to vote for more of the same no change and accept our lot in life.

What were we thinking?

[TM99]

4. Nice strawman.

I don't see any Sanders supporters saying that.

What I do see them say is that we need someone who will definitely fight the Kochs and the venal & craven right. I don't want any more 'grand bargains'. We don't need anymore compromising where the Democrat gives up demands before the debate has even begun. We do not need any more 'third way' thinking.

[hootinholler]

18. I'm left wondering

What the venal and craven aspects are?

Also I think it would be polite to use fresh straw instead of the stuff that's been laying around on the stall floors.

[TM99]

19. I know, right.

It is the same strawman arguments over and over and over and over again.

But the OP's ALWAYS like Sanders, they just have 'concerns'.

[bvf]

20. Exactly.

At some point, you're left with nothing but pure horseshit.

[hootinholler]

23. Actually the horse urine soaked straw is useful

It will make oak come to a rich deep brown without staining, and the ammonia permeates the wood so that you can't change it by sanding it off.

[bvf]

25. Good tip!

We city boys can always learn a few things!

[hootinholler]

45. It's easier to use straight ammonia

Drug store or cleaning products in a tray under the wood stack with a plastic tent over it to trap the fumes. The depth of the color is controlled by time in the vapors.

There is no stain like it.

[bvf]

53. I actually have an aunt who was heavily into

furniture refinishing, who fucked up her lungs due to lots of ammonia and poor ventilation.

I think I lost interest in the hobby after learning that, but my daughter may take it up. I'll pass that along, thanks!

[hootinholler]

54. A good VOC respirator is essential

Cheap and if you buy the full face version, it works against tear gas as well

[bvf]

58. Got it, thx!

It just occurred to me that here we've been talking about toxic fumes, which means we haven't strayed from the OP in the least.

[daleanime]

76. ......

[senz]

61. ...

The breadth of your knowledge is impressive, hootinholler. No, I am not being sarcastic.

[hootinholler]

67. I get around :D

Don't check its depth except where it's actually deep

I do appreciate the compliment.

[tecelote]

83. They use a lot of urea (from horses) when dying cotton.

Must be similar to the wood usage. Cellulose.

[hootinholler]

84. It's the ammonia that colors the wood but AFAIK only oak

Urea was used in finishing wool cloth, it helps the fibers to cross link when soaked and then agitated a process called Waulking back in the day.

[tecelote]

86. Thanks!

Is it the ammonia that is the key element in wool and cotton as well?

[KittyWampus]

29. What's he going to fight them with? Oh right, his magic wand. Screw the Democratic Party

and the Democratic Party infrastructure.

Bernie supporters attack it day in and day out.

That's what he'd have to work with. And HE's done nothing to support or grow it.

Bernie is an ideologue and so are almost all of his supporters.

Lots of talk with no realistic plan to get the ball further down the court.

But HEY, he'll make some more speeches and point his fingers and be all angry and impatient as usual.

[TM99]

50. So you are telling me that if Sanders

gets the majority of the votes of Democrats and leftists in the primary to win and then goes on a does the same in the general election that the Democratic Party and infrastructure will be so childish that they will ignore the will of their own base and voters and not support him in congress?

Really? Are you sure you want to run with that notion?

[murielm99]

87. Yes. Exactly.

It happened to Jimmy Carter. He was an outsider with little experience. He prided himself on being an outsider, and got very little cooperation because of it.

As much as I love President Carter, he lost because of his outsider status. He did not get as much done as he could have. The party and many more Democrats would have worked harder for him if he had tried to work within the system.

[TM99]

89. Won't happen with Sanders.

He is not an outsider. He has worked successfully with Dems and Repubs for decades in Congress.

[murielm99]

92. He is an outsider.

He prides himself on it, as many of his statements have indicated.

Your wishing for his success will not make it happen.

[TM99]

95. You are confusing his political philosophy

Last edited Mon Jan 4, 2016, 08:45 AM - Edit history (1)

with his work.

His history is replete with successful work relationships from the Progressive Caucus to the bi-partisan Veterans bills.

He is an amendment king. You can not be successful with that if you can't work with fellow members.

Sanders is a rare politician in that he has a consistent political & economic philosophy. In that he has not wavered for almost 45 years. But he is also very practical and pragmatic. Being a mayor, rep, and senator for 40 years shows us that he is more than capable of 'getting things done'.

Your insistence that he is not going to be successful given the actual facts speaks much more to you than to me.

[hootinholler]

69. And why not?

The DNC has done zero to help Bernie in any real sense when they could plausibly deny aid.

If it were up to the DNC, when Bernie is nominated they would take their ball and go home.

Plus calling Bernie or his supporters venal and craven? Especially funny when shouted from the paragon of hubris.

[TDale313]

77. Agree 100%

[Thinkingabout]

5. Without an effort by Sanders to raise funds in the fourth quarter in order to elect supporting

Democrats does not indicate to me he just may think he can get his agenda passed.

[Blue_Adept]

8. +1

[Armstead]

72. Jumping on the bandwagon of the day again, eh?

[Thinkingabout]

73. No

[LWolf]

6. I'm sorry you had that idea.

You're right. Your idea is ludicrous.

It's a good thing that's not what those of us who are working to elect Sanders think. It's a good thing that's not what Sanders thinks, has said, or has based his campaign on.

Frankly, if we have to have ludicrous ideas, if a few MUST keep putting them out there, I take some comfort that they are coming from those who are working, like salmon fighting to swim upstream, spawn, and die, against Sanders.

[Cary]

7. "Those of us..."

Last edited Tue Jan 5, 2016, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Do you speak for all Bernie Sanders supporters here at DU? No, you do not.

Maybe, instead of trying so hard to speak for others, you ought to listen to what's being said? I am under seige here at DU. It is not my imagination and I am hardly alone in my perception.

This will not serve you or those for whom you speak. You make a big mistake and it is not the first time.

[JonLeibowitz]

10. -1. The Poster speaks well for me and every Sanders supporter I know.

Leave him/her alone please, the sentiment is one shared by many/most Sanders supporters. We want this fight and we want to get involved in it.

[Cary]

21. Your ideas have to withstand scrutiny

You will never get anywhere by alienating mainstream Democrats like me.

Never.

[JonLeibowitz]

22. And many ideas are supported by the majority of Americans.

I am alienating no one, I am just speaking my mind about the direction I want to see for our country.

I would remind you that you will not get anywhere by alienating progressive Democrats like me, as the DNC has been doing.

Never.

[Cary]

24. You don't listen

The Bernie Sanders supporters here at DU are alienating Democrats.

And you will lose in part because of that. You will never go anywhere without mainstream Democrats like me. Never.

[JonLeibowitz]

26. Sure, whatever you say. The same words you say apply to 'mainstream Democrats'.

Democrats can't win without progressives.

[Cary]

32. I don't know about progressives

The attitude you espouse is a dead end.

As I have said these things are pridictable and I have seen it before. You all had success scuttling Al Gore. 5hat was catastrophic.

You will never learn.

[JonLeibowitz]

33. .

Whatever.

My vote is owed to nobody. If I can't live with myself morally by pulling the lever for a candidate that's that. Party matters little.

[TM99]

75. Us all?

Oh, or do you mean all of those registered Democrats in Florida that voted in higher numbers for GW Bush than Nader?

Y'all never learn.

[Kentonio]

41. You don't think there might just be a pot, kettle, black situation going on here?

Why exactly is it that the progressives are the ones who are always expected to bow down and follow the decisions made by the 'mainstream' wing of the party? Thrown a few sops during the primary which quickly disappear when it comes to the general. Blamed any time the candidate they didn't actually want anyway then goes on to lose. At what point does this stop actually being our party any more, when the only reason we're given to support it is 'well look how bad the other side are!'?

[Cary]

81. I speak only for myself even if I take some license here or there

No, I don't provoke this. Sorry. I do not share the hatred of Hillary Clinton.

That is my crime.

[Kentonio]

93. It really has very little to do with Hillary Clinton.

[ljm2002]

66. But wait...

...I thought that Bernie supporters were the ones who thought DU was "the real world", whereas Hillary supporters know better. I guess that's out the window...

Anyway, we know there are more Bernie supporters here at DU than there are Hillary supporters. Ergo, when you or any other Hillary supporters alienates Bernie supporters, you are alienating MORE Democrats than when it's the other way around.

We shall see how far we get, with or without you.

[kristopher]

39. "Mainstream" Democrats?

I don't believe you're applying that concept accurately. The word you are looking for is "corporatist" Democrat.

Here is a profile by issue of "mainstream Democrats" and our lost sheep:

[Cary]

49. Mainstream, as in In will vote for the nominee

And I will not trash either candidate, especially not with "conservative" smears.

[bvf]

71. How about just you?

You seem to be doing your damnedest to alienate a good percentage of your own party for what appears to be ego's sake and little more.

[Attorney in Texas]

13. I also agree with everything in that post. Clinton is running to the right of Nixon on domestic

issues.

She's a hell of a lot better than any of the other Republicans running, but I'm in no hurry to adopt the idea that the lesser of evils is the best I am entitled to hope for.

[Cary]

27. You live in Texas and you're not ready?

Come on.

[LWolf]

17. Of course I don't speak for "all Bernie Sanders supporters."

That would be foolish indeed. I, though, as a Sanders supporter, have had plenty of opportunity to observe what you claim, and I haven't.

You threw out an accusation without evidence. Which makes that accusation, at best, an effort to lob shit to see if it would stick, and at worst, dishonest.

"Listen?" How ironic. If you'd listened at all to Bernie Sanders, you'd know that he says it over and over and over and over, every time he speaks to people. He can't do it alone; no one can, and if he wins, the fight is just beginning. That's what he's saying, that's what his supporters hear and know, and trying to suggest otherwise suggests, to say it kindly, ignorance.

You are not under "seize" at DU. Nobody is seizing you. I think you might be trying to suggest that you are under "siege."

You are posting in GDP. I don't know if you have a candidate of choice. This is the first of your posts I've ever read. If you are supporting MOM or HRC, that's fine. BUT...if you are going to jump into the GDP arena, you have to be able to handle opposition. That's not a "siege." If you don't want a response, don't attack.

What, exactly, doesn't "serve" me? Calling bullshit when I see it? I'm not the one who started a bullshit OP without evidence. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.

I don't see rebutting someone's bullshit accusation as a "mistake." And I'd love to see what other "mistakes" you are accusing me of making.

[ljm2002]

65. And yet you felt perfectly free...

...to characterize all Bernie supporters' views in your OP, and dishonestly at that.

[liberal_at_heart]

90. You think you're the only one? You're on an internet message board. What do you expect?

Bernie supporters are just as much under attack as Hillary supporters. That is what the ignore button is for. I use mine frequently.

[Attorney in Texas]

9. Translation: "We're the Koch Brothers' Bitches so Shut Up and Go to the Slaughterhouse with Grace"

Clinton's idea of compromising our values and claiming victory is not a model to move our country in the right direction. Sanders is willing to fight for what we believe.

The genius of the primary is that you can advocate that lowered expectations is the best response to the Koch monsters and Citizens United, and I can advocate for a brighter vision of the future.

If Clinton wins the nomination, we'll all get on board the lowered expectations train, but we can still fight to stop that train by working to see Sanders gets the nomination.

If you see the hopefulness as an irritant, maybe you won't have to deal with it much longer if Clinton gets the nomination, but if Sanders gets the nod, you may have to grit your teeth and learn to get accustomed to hope.

[Karma13612]

12. Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #FeeltheBern +100//// eom

[PowerToThePeople]

14. I for one

Will not board the lower expectations train again. If I walk alone, at least I can enjoy some peaceful time to myself.

[Karma13612]

11. I must say, the number of "get real, Bernie doesn't have a chance,

just vote for the inevitable with your clothes pin" diaries has hit an all time high.

Bernie supporters know it's an uphill battle to get:

#1) the nomination
#2) the Presidency
#3) anything worthwhile thru the current Congress


But we also know we would rather fight to get all of those things then to sit back, not try, and let the 3rd way portion of the Democratic party just drive us over the cliff into perpetual Republican he!!!.

The world is watching.

I intend to show them that I am brave and believe in a strong progressive, healthy America again.

Clinton supporters, I am no longer listening to your continuous negative comments that you think are helpful but are just stirring up stuff. I have enuf to worry about with bad weather, crappy road conditions, a hard job, a tight budget, and achy joints.

Happy New Year 2016.

I FeeltheBern every day. Warms my fingers and toes as I scrap the snow and ice off my car.

[Cary]

60. Of course that isn't my point

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

But certain people will die on that cross.

[bvf]

15. Way to re-stuff that stupid straw man, Cary.

...I simply don't want my country moving toward the right.

The last Clinton did a pretty good job of seeing to exactly that in many ways. We don't need any more two-for-one.

[Cary]

85. I'm so sick of that "both sides do it" crap

Mostly this comes from Ron Paul cultists, many of whom have tried hard to deny that they are "conservatives."

Odd.

[bvf]

94. OTOH, there are those

at a loss for anything to say, who often seem to be the most vocal.

Odd.

[Cary]

96. The President is not a dictator.

Nor a saint. Nor a perfect representative for you personally.

We have coalition parties. The fact that the Republican Party has been hijacked by the extreme right is not grounds for ceding the Democratic Party to the extreme left. We nominate our candidate and we support him or her. We have no other viable alternative.

There is way too much at stake. I will list some for you:

1. No more stupid wars in the Middle East;

2. No more tax cuts for billionaires (universally supported by "conservatives&quot ;

3. Supreme Court appointees.

The last may be the most critical. Overturning these 5 - 4 straight across party lines garbage decisions is going to take time and discipline. There is an element that claims to be Democratic that is nothing but a total breakdown in discipline.

"Conservative" ideology is showing more and more how dangerous it is so really if you're not functionally working to combat that ideology you're part of the problem.

[bvf]

97. "The President is not a dictator."

There's a great example, right there.

Thanks, Professor. That'll be news to nobody, despite your desperate wish to the contrary.

[Cary]

98. "Thanks, Professor"

I'm not here to educate you or anyone else. You don't have to make it personal. If you don't like my opinion, then you don't like it.

I'm fine with that. I really don't like your opinion either, but "That'll be news to nobody" either. BFD, bvf.

I'm interested in solutions, not in you, and I don't see you offering a whole lot in your bid for your cult of personality. I don't see it.

[bvf]

101. "I'm not here to educate you or anyone else."

The joke just writes itself, sometimes...

[Cary]

102. Oh good.

More judgmental nonsense.

It's a good thing you're marginal. I hope you enjoy your sour grapes.

[bvf]

103. Yet you press on,

champing at the bit for replies. Happy to oblige.

[Cary]

104. Obviously your only purpose is to try to aggravate me.

You're not even good that that. I've seen much better.

[bvf]

106. Aggravation seems to be your default state

if your OP is any indication.

Oh, that, and seeing straw men everywhere you look. That probably doesn't help.

[Cary]

107. It's always about me.

Always change the subject to me, personally. Because that's so important.

You're gaslighting. That is sociopathic behavior.

[bvf]

108. Look up "gaslighting."

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Cary]

109. Yes I do.

You're doing it again. But you will never own it.

[bvf]

110. So you looked up "gaslighting,"

found out that you had no clue of its definition before just throwing it out there in a post--willy-nilly, were privately (and very publicly) embarrassed by your ignorance, and decided to double down.

Hoot.

[Cary]

111. You don't say?

[bvf]

112. Yes, I do. It's pretty clear.

[Cary]

114. Is that right?

[bvf]

117. .

[beam me up scottie]

113. Inconceivable!

Cary's under seize here, stop using your fancy dictionary definitions and logic to "gaslight" him!

[bvf]

115. Ow!

http://m.

(Can I call you my interlocutor?)

[beam me up scottie]

116. We're just not bright enough to appreciate genius:

[Cary]

118. Is that right?

[Cary]

119. "Under seize."

Ha!

[bvf]

120. See #7.

Ha!

[Cary]

121. No. I really don't care.

Did my auto correct make me make a typo?

It's just more pettiness from you.

[bvf]

122. Enjoy.

[Cary]

123. You don't say?

[bvf]

124. .

[Cary]

125. That's the smartest thing you've said.

Good job.

[beam me up scottie]

127. It's certainly intellectually superior to posting "Ha!"

[bvf]

129. You don't say?

[bvf]

130. Your OP about ignores? I give it a week, tops.

You clearly can't exist here without someone to insult.

Condolences on the lock, btw. I had nothing to do with it.

[Vinca]

16. If Hillary is elected it doesn't go away either.

If anything, it will be worse. If there's one thing the GOP hates more than Obama it's Hillary Clinton. You have to assume whoever is elected who isn't a right wing nut will face an uphill battle.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. I want someone to start negotiations on the left...

... and move toward the middle if need be. Not start in the middle and throw up their hands and settle on the right.

[merrily]

30. Straw person. No one has the idea that electing Bernie will eliminate all bad things.

Inventing ideas so you can call them ludicrous is a massive waste of time.

"Perfection should never be the enemy of the good." Rahm's favorite saying has no application to a primary vote. Indeed, it makes no sense whatever in the context of a primary vote.

[Amimnoch]

37. Pot meet kettle.

nt

[merrily]

38. Ok nt

[cali]

31. No one claims any such thing. Making shit up is contemptible as well as ludicrous

[bvf]

36. Very well-chosen words, there. n/t

[bvf]

40. To call that a "photo" is...

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

...I don't need the hide. Feel free to use your imagination.

Here's a photo, just you know the difference:



(I would have posted a picture of a familiar actor, but the very mention of his name is apparently frowned upon by certain juries.)

[merrily]

42. Please see Reply 31. Thanks.

[Amimnoch]

43. Odd, I don't see #31.

Must be someone I bumped out of my view.

[kristopher]

47. Thanks for eliminating the need for elections.

But in spite of your guarantee about the outcome, I'm still going to be involved by trying to create the outcome I want to see - including a Congress populated with real Dems instead of Republican clones.

[Amimnoch]

48. Feel free to show me a theoretical roll call of a 115th Congress in 2017.

You may use any actually running candidate you like for each house seat and Senate seat that is up.. even if they are only polling at 1%.. go wild. Pick the MOST progressive and Liberal candidate running in 2016 for the 115th congress. Give it the best chances, and you still won't have the congressional votes needed.. house or senate.. to make Bernies policies reality.

Our office has a spreadsheet that has every candidate in every House district, and Senate seat. I've done some playing around with it to see if there was any combination that might make it happen.. it's not even close. If you only went by (D)'s.. you could barely get the numbers, but when you look at the policies and voting history of more than a few of those (D)'s, there's just no way they would support Bernie.. UNLESS he capitulated and gave them something else back... and as many point out here. Bernie doesn't do that.

So, please stuff your hyperbole. I do not advocate eliminating the need for elections.. I do, however, take into consideration political reality. A lost art apparently.

[senz]

74. How Republican.

[Amimnoch]

79. Ahhh, that beautiful "I have no argument, so I'll just go with a a basic insult"

Approach.

How novel.

[tecelote]

88. Right wing meme.

[ljm2002]

44. Yeah because it's just so naive...

...to think that we can change the way things are by fighting for something different.

It's much more realistic to believe we can change the way things are by acquiescing to the way things are.

Or something.

[azmom]

51. [phone]

[hedda_foil]

63. Well done!

[bowens43]

46. the idea that anyone thinks that Bernie supporters expect immediate radical change is ludicrous.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. Of course they won't. But at least Sanders will try.

I'm not so sure about Hillary - to me she's just more of the same. Better than what the GOP wants to do, yes. But probably no better than what we have now.

[Live and Learn]

55. But Bernie would at least start the ball rolling up hill.

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary would just kick it, hastening its downward spiral.

[INdemo]

56. I agree

"I don't care who brings the change I simply don't want my country moving toward the right."
Thank you for supporting Bernie Sanders

[AgingAmerican]

57. It is ludicrous and we only hear it from Clinton supporters

[senz]

59. The difference: President Sanders isn't part of it and calls it for what it is.

We don't have anyone else like that.

[cui bono]

62. So...?

I don't know what your point is.

.

[Motown_Johnny]

70. The idea that Hillary gets elected and it doesn't get much worse is equally ludicrous.

Hillary is far more to the right than Bernie. If you really don't want the country moving to the right then you should be supporting him.

[Cary]

100. I was told the same thing by people here about President Obama

It didn't work out that way, and I didn't buy that nonsense then. I'm not buying it now.

[Armstead]

78. If Bernie is elected I am expectingJesus Himself to descend from the clouds

Instantly wipe all of our sins away, and turn the Republicans into toads, literally.

[saltpoint]

80. In 1961, John Kennedy had this to say

in his Inaugural address:


- - - - -

"All this will not be finished in the first one hundred days. Nor will it be finished in the first one thousand days, nor in the life of this Administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet.

But let us begin."

- - - - -

[CoffeeCat]

82. I'd rather have an uncertain future

with an honest, decent President who serves "We The People"; than the certainty of a Hillary presidency that would serve the warmongers, Wall-Street moguls, powerful corporate interests and other assorted shitheads that think they can buy themselves a piece of our democracy.

That would be a big NO THANKS.

[restorefreedom]

91. +++++++++++++++++++++++ nt

[Cary]

99. You want to cut off your nose to spite your face.

I don't, thank you very much.

[Zorra]

105. Electing Bernie is the very first step in limiting the power that venal and craven

forces have over our government. It's a start. We need to start the change somewhere, and electing Bernie is the beginning of positive change.

Electing Clinton will only result in business, as usual, and things will continue to go downhill for everyone but the affluent.

Electing a republican will make everything go downhill faster than they would go downhill under Clinton.

[Gothmog]

126. The concept that there will be a revolution that no polling can detect is amusing

Sanders is not going to be the nominee