Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
About that DFA Bernie endorsement. Why did I know the following without reading the article? (Original Post) upaloopa Dec 2015 OP
Sour grapes much? HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #1
I think we have been down this road before upaloopa Dec 2015 #28
Just FYI HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #34
Here is the deal... Agschmid Dec 2015 #2
Thanks Agschmid... The Dean Brothers Are On Opposite Sides Of This, Correct ??? WillyT Dec 2015 #6
I know where Howard stands but not the other one. Agschmid Dec 2015 #10
agschmid, you get my thanks for your post. Its nice to see a nice roguevalley Dec 2015 #63
I would not assume that at all, WillyT. This is the membership telling DFA what to do. merrily Dec 2015 #43
I Thought I Remembered Reading It Somewhere... Maybe I Got It Confused With The Original Petition... WillyT Dec 2015 #44
I don't know anything about Jim Dean individually. The stories I remember were about DFA. merrily Dec 2015 #50
Well... According To This, DFA Was Turned Over To Jim Dean In 2005: WillyT Dec 2015 #53
If Warren had entered the race Mnpaul Dec 2015 #59
My only reservation about the endorsement BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #21
They also released the proportion of DFA-members-previous-to-the-vote who voted Sanders JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #32
Howard Dean has not been in charge of DFA for 10 yrs.. Didn't you get an email about voting? merrily Dec 2015 #38
I did get an email (>1, in fact) and BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #68
You could only vote once, DFA member chose Bernie. peacebird Dec 2015 #3
You could vote as many times as you wanted. Fact. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #5
I only voted once. Agschmid Dec 2015 #7
Yes. All that was required was a good email address. I only voted once as well. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Eric J in MN Dec 2015 #14
They also did IP address monitoring (this was their 'security review'). JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #17
lol. IP monitoring. Would have had to use a mobile phone. Bigger lol. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #19
Yes, I edited my post to mention that. Not quick enough I see. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #20
I rcvd several invites, but after my first vote, it always showed who I had voted for and would have peacebird Dec 2015 #11
All it took was a different email address. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #12
Ah, well, I don't do that. One poll, one vote. peacebird Dec 2015 #16
I normally don't vote in them. I did in this one. Once as well. I have a feeling most did just that. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #18
I only voted once. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #27
I have three emails UglyGreed Dec 2015 #58
How do you know, if you didn't try to vote a second time? Also, it took more than one email addy. merrily Dec 2015 #45
Even if that were the case, it wouldn't explain why 77% of existing DFA members chose Bernie JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #22
Maybe the existing members had multiple emails Mnpaul Dec 2015 #60
I didn't realize that. BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #24
It's not actually true. jeff47 Dec 2015 #42
Then so could Hillary voters, if they could figure out how. Scuba Dec 2015 #69
Never said anything different. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #70
I think their process was ok. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #4
Same here. I love DFA. BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #26
Sanders got 77% of the vote of people who were DFA members before the vote. jeff47 Dec 2015 #40
Which means that by "DFA member" they mean sufrommich Dec 2015 #8
Correct. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #15
See post 22. This talking point is pretty lame. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #23
So people signed up with DFA before this poll just in case DFA did this poll? merrily Dec 2015 #46
They have both of mine. I voted twice, because, online poll! Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #56
It's a good endorsement. He was bound to get a few endorsements ... however ... NurseJackie Dec 2015 #13
Despite the fact angrychair Dec 2015 #47
I'm not sure about those numbers, but I am sure that it's not 2007. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #51
You're right about the amount of work involved to get Bernie elected. Nobody said it would be easy.* hedda_foil Dec 2015 #61
Speaking of sour grapes.... merrily Dec 2015 #48
Yes? NurseJackie Dec 2015 #49
You had to give your name and contact information. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #25
Three clicks and twenty five or so characters. lol. Not just a simple click. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #29
See post 22. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #33
Aren't you also the author of Reply 4, stating the process was okay? merrily Dec 2015 #41
By an OVERWHELMING MARGIN.....that is why. ViseGrip Dec 2015 #30
Centrist Doctor Dean hasn't been in charge of DFA since 2005. merrily Dec 2015 #31
You beat me to it. Autumn Dec 2015 #35
I saw you approaching, so I ran faster, just to be mean. merrily Dec 2015 #36
Damn girl. You are quick Autumn Dec 2015 #64
I'm also not above tripping people, so that helps. merrily Dec 2015 #65
OMG you were so fast I didn't see you. Now I know why my knee hurts Autumn Dec 2015 #66
. merrily Dec 2015 #67
I haz a sads too. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #37
If that post is for real, then you don't know Howard DFW Dec 2015 #55
Is that what you're going to say if as expected Clinton wins the nomination mythology Dec 2015 #62
I don't care if people voted by carrier pigeon. It was still over 270,000 members who voted. merrily Dec 2015 #39
But wait, when unions endorse Hillary.... Tarc Dec 2015 #52
DFA isn't a union. HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #54
How did you know that the powers that be are trying to rig the nomination towards Hillary? highprincipleswork Dec 2015 #57
Are you thinking that people voted more than once in this? Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #71
 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
1. Sour grapes much?
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:18 PM
Dec 2015

Hillary supporters had every opportunity to organize and win that poll, but they didn't.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
34. Just FYI
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:05 PM
Dec 2015

Out of those who were DFA members before this poll was launched, 78% voted for Bernie. Kinda throws that whole "But they just created multiple email addresses" thing out the window.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
2. Here is the deal...
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:18 PM
Dec 2015

I voted in it, I voted for Hillary.

There does seem to be an enthusiasm gap, we knew winning this would be great.

We didn't win it.

Sure the race isn't over but this one does sting a bit.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
6. Thanks Agschmid... The Dean Brothers Are On Opposite Sides Of This, Correct ???
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:24 PM
Dec 2015

If true, that's a microcosm right there.




Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
10. I know where Howard stands but not the other one.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:26 PM
Dec 2015

This is a win for Sanders.

I know I am going to get "concern troll" here but if he does end up being the nominee, we all better be ready to work out buts off as this would be a very different election.

This is true for either candidate to some degree.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
63. agschmid, you get my thanks for your post. Its nice to see a nice
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 06:29 PM
Dec 2015

post like yours. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
43. I would not assume that at all, WillyT. This is the membership telling DFA what to do.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:27 PM
Dec 2015

I've seen stories since the Draft Warren days that indicated that, if DFA had its own way, instead of going to its members, they would have endorsed Hillary.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
44. I Thought I Remembered Reading It Somewhere... Maybe I Got It Confused With The Original Petition...
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:31 PM
Dec 2015

Which was directed to Jim Dean asking to endorse Bernie.


merrily

(45,251 posts)
50. I don't know anything about Jim Dean individually. The stories I remember were about DFA.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:40 PM
Dec 2015

One was an internal memo that got leaked suggesting Warren should run in the primary to make Hillary a better candidate. This was well before Sanders's informal announcement.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
53. Well... According To This, DFA Was Turned Over To Jim Dean In 2005:
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:58 PM
Dec 2015

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_for_America

And this is the petition drive addressed to him: https://www.change.org/p/democracy-for-america-endorse-bernie-sanders-in-the-2016-election

Maybe that's the source of my confusion... that or 100 other things...




Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
59. If Warren had entered the race
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:05 PM
Dec 2015

Bernie would have stayed out. He was watching to see if someone was going to run supporting the left wing of the party.

BlueMTexpat

(15,415 posts)
21. My only reservation about the endorsement
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:36 PM
Dec 2015

was that I believed that DFA members who actually have contributed financially to the organization for more than this election cycle should have been the only ones able to vote. I am not really sure what the qualifications were. They were likely spelled out somewhere but I didn't see them. It would be interesting to see a breakdown, if such is possible.

I am one of DFA's earliest members and I support DFA with a monthly contribution, in addition to contributing to candidates DFA endorses (I won't be tossing any extra funds in for Bernie though, unless he is the GE candidate). If my vote for Hillary was cancelled out by some newbie who has never contributed to DFA, I believe that I have a right to be somewhat pissed.

If those who voted for Bernie begin contributing to the organization - if they haven't previously done so - that's great for all Dems, IMO. DFA does good work.

Howard himself is still a Hillary supporter and continues to campaign for her. In the long run, I don't believe that DFA's endorsement of Bernie will matter as much as Howard's presence on the stump for Hillary.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
32. They also released the proportion of DFA-members-previous-to-the-vote who voted Sanders
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:04 PM
Dec 2015

The result was 77%. Note that this isn't just financial backers. But it's something.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
38. Howard Dean has not been in charge of DFA for 10 yrs.. Didn't you get an email about voting?
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:14 PM
Dec 2015

The politico story says it was a membership vote. Most of the members who did vote voted for Sanders.

BlueMTexpat

(15,415 posts)
68. I did get an email (>1, in fact) and
Fri Dec 18, 2015, 04:21 AM
Dec 2015

I certainly knew that Howard is not "in charge of" DFA now. I met Howard in person when he was DNC Chair.

But I have been with DFA since it was Dean for America. I didn't simply jump on the bandwagon for this election. I will continue to be a financial supporter for as long as DFA exists, no matter which candidate it supports in the primaries.

Can the majority of those who voted for Bernie say the same?

I am, however, very happy to note that in my email from Charles Chamberlain announcing the results, I have the option of not receiving emails about Bernie even though I will continue to receive them about other issues/candidates.

I will exercise that option. If Bernie makes it to the GE, I will reconsider. But for now, I have enough political spam.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
3. You could only vote once, DFA member chose Bernie.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:19 PM
Dec 2015

Hillary supporters are in for a rude deja vu when primary votes are cast....

Response to NCTraveler (Reply #9)

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
17. They also did IP address monitoring (this was their 'security review').
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:33 PM
Dec 2015

You would have needed to use a VPN (or use a mobile phone + broadband connection)

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
11. I rcvd several invites, but after my first vote, it always showed who I had voted for and would have
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:26 PM
Dec 2015

Let me switch candidates, but not vote again.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
18. I normally don't vote in them. I did in this one. Once as well. I have a feeling most did just that.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:34 PM
Dec 2015

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
27. I only voted once.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:53 PM
Dec 2015

I have two good emails: personal and work.

But, as this was personal, I didn't double dip with my work email.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
58. I have three emails
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 04:47 PM
Dec 2015

and I also only voted once. Never crossed my mind to do anything else. IMO it is a roundabout way to call those who support Bernie underhanded and unethical.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
45. How do you know, if you didn't try to vote a second time? Also, it took more than one email addy.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:32 PM
Dec 2015

They could have had an IP number system or a cookie preventing multiple votes. Hard to imagine they had no system in place.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
22. Even if that were the case, it wouldn't explain why 77% of existing DFA members chose Bernie
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:47 PM
Dec 2015

That is still over the threshold, and is immune to the multiple e-mail signup scam. See below (emphasis mine)

Bernie Sanders has earned Democracy for America's endorsement in the 2016 Democratic presidential primary with an astonishing, record-breaking 87.9% of the vote (including 77.8% of voters who were already members of DFA prior to the poll being launched on December 7).

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
60. Maybe the existing members had multiple emails
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:10 PM
Dec 2015

set up solely for the purpose of skewing the polling

Wait for it. It's coming.

BlueMTexpat

(15,415 posts)
24. I didn't realize that.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:49 PM
Dec 2015

I do have four different email addresses. One I only use professionally in and one I never use for campaign contributions. Both are political spam-free zones.

But I only voted one time. I did get requests from DFA to vote that were sent to my third address that gets a lot of political spam generally - it was my first private email address ever and I hadn't really compartmentalized in those early days. But I only voted from the address I contribute from. I probably shouldn't have had any qualms about voting more than once, but ....

If this endorsement has the same problem as online polls generally ... hmmm.

I'm glad that Hillary continues to have Howard on her side. If I had to choose between a DFA endorsement and Howard, I'd always choose Howard.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
42. It's not actually true.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:23 PM
Dec 2015

77% of the vote was for Sanders, and came from people who were members of DFA before the vote started. So either you had to join DFA four times before voting started, or there's actual merit to these results.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
70. Never said anything different.
Fri Dec 18, 2015, 09:46 AM
Dec 2015

I think Sanders staff is the ones currently concerned about how to use the Internet. Who are the other three? What did Sanders know and when did he know it. Great point about being computer savvy.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
4. I think their process was ok.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:23 PM
Dec 2015

A person had to get 67% of the online vote. An email address was what was needed. And another email address. And another one. They have seen the amazing blow-back from other groups who have endorsed Clinton. We have literally seen a whole group on the left promote the rhetoric that has been promoted by the right for generations; Union bosses are corrupt, this civil rights leader is bought and paid for, that one is a coward. It's really sad but DFA knows they will be ok supporting Sanders and that Clinton supporters won't relentlessly attack them online. As a Clinton supporter I know that DFA will be endorsing Clinton in about two months. I'm ok with that. I really don't want to see them bashed as so many other great progressive groups have been.

BlueMTexpat

(15,415 posts)
26. Same here. I love DFA.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:52 PM
Dec 2015

And I believe that you are correct about the endorsement in a couple months, so I can live with this now.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
40. Sanders got 77% of the vote of people who were DFA members before the vote.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:21 PM
Dec 2015

And 77% is still above the threshold for endorsing.

So...your claim is Sanders supporters signed up with hundreds of fake email addresses to skew this vote...before the voting started.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
23. See post 22. This talking point is pretty lame.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:48 PM
Dec 2015

77% of existing DFA members (i.e. before the voting announcement went out) chose Bernie. 77% is still over the threshold. Your argument is invalid.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
13. It's a good endorsement. He was bound to get a few endorsements ... however ...
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:28 PM
Dec 2015

... when you look at HOW FEW and HOW SCARCE and HOW MEAGER Bernie's list of endorsements are, it's easy to understand why Bernie's fans would be excited and crowing. (Frankly, I'm a little surprised that he's having such a difficult time with endorsements.)

ONLY... it's interesting to note how Hillary's union endorsements were viewed as irrelevant by Bernie's fans, but Bernie's recent union endorsement is viewed with such joy (or perhaps "relief" would be a better term to use.)

Are they being hypocritical now, or was it just a case of jealousy and "sour-grapes" when it came to Hillary's very long list of endorsements?

I haven't yet seen a breakdown that compares the total number of members that the unions represent. I think it's safe to assume that based on the sheer volume of unions that have endorsed Hillary, hers would be larger, but what's the percentage? (80/20? 90/10? 95/5? 99/1?)

angrychair

(8,967 posts)
47. Despite the fact
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:37 PM
Dec 2015

That most supporters of your candidate don't like the comparison, reality is reality, the endorsement split in December of 2007 was easily 80/20 in your candidate's favor and she was still leading in the polls by a large margin.

Despite the meme, as supporters of Bernie Sanders, we assume nothing and take nothing for granted.

As an aside, when looking at the candidate from each party with the most endorsements, on both the R and D side, the establishment candidates (HRC and Jeb!) have the most. The candidates with the most grassroots support and no SuperPACs, Bernie and tRump, endorsements are on the lower side.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
51. I'm not sure about those numbers, but I am sure that it's not 2007.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:45 PM
Dec 2015

With regard to the present day: As I said, it's a good-get for Bernie, and long overdue. He's got a lot of work ahead of him if he and his fans expect to catch up with Hillary.

hedda_foil

(16,414 posts)
61. You're right about the amount of work involved to get Bernie elected. Nobody said it would be easy.*
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:10 PM
Dec 2015

* caveat: except for a handful of very young and /or naive internet posters, and another few working for other candidates' campaigns or PACks.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
25. You had to give your name and contact information.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:51 PM
Dec 2015

Once you got the email they sent to confirm, then you had to validate your vote.

This was NOT a simple "click."

But, that said, if Hillary fans can sit here on this website dissing online polls all day, why can't the find the time to go vote in them?

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
37. I haz a sads too.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:14 PM
Dec 2015

Poor Dr Dean, his followers are in front of him and he doesn't know how to turn them around.

Democracy sucks, amirite?

DFW

(55,186 posts)
55. If that post is for real, then you don't know Howard
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:11 PM
Dec 2015

Howard was stung by his early crash and burn in 2004. NOTHING has really fazed him since. If Hillary loses, then she loses. He isn't the candidate, so it won't change anything he's doing.

He does stuff like the march from Bangkok to the Burmese border to spotlight human slavery and trafficking.

Modern day slavery stings him. Missing out on his pick for the Democratic nomination would not.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
39. I don't care if people voted by carrier pigeon. It was still over 270,000 members who voted.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:20 PM
Dec 2015

You know almost everyone in America has access to the internet, right? Not only Bernie supporters?

Tarc

(10,491 posts)
52. But wait, when unions endorse Hillary....
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:50 PM
Dec 2015

The Sanders' Bros gnash & wail about the union chiefs committing vile acts of travesty against their members wishes. But now that a union endorses Bernie, it's punch & pie all around?

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
54. DFA isn't a union.
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:05 PM
Dec 2015

It's an activist organization. Bernie's CWA union endorsement, however, was given after months of polling its rank and file members unlike many of the other unions who have endorsed Hillary. Most of those endorsements were made by the union chiefs without any real consultation of their members. The classic one was the SEIU endorsement where the union reported that they polled its members, but what they actually did was poll *favorability* not who the members actually *supported*. Other unions just outright ignored their members. That is the key difference.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
57. How did you know that the powers that be are trying to rig the nomination towards Hillary?
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:27 PM
Dec 2015

How did you know that the powers that be are trying to rig the nomination towards Hillary?

Well, because it's perfectly clear to everybody.

That's something that is incredibly annoying and counter-productive. And those who love Hillary should be doing everything in their power not to continue the trend towards anything that feels like an unfair nomination process. They should be encouraging Hillary and DWS to lighten up the process and negotiate a better debate schedule, etc. Because if these kind of numbers of people feel disenfranchised by what they see as an unfair process, how they act in the general is not likely to become a pretty picture.

If Hillary is actually the best candidate, let her prove it through a reasonable schedule of debates, not through back-channel means.

Howard Dean? Will never trust the man again entirely.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
71. Are you thinking that people voted more than once in this?
Fri Dec 18, 2015, 09:48 AM
Dec 2015

Isn't that the argument against online polls? Somehow it isn't fair because the same people keep voting over and over again to skew the outcome?

I think you "knew" something you didn't know but just convinced yourself that you did. I can see why you support Hillary.



Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»About that DFA Bernie end...