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Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:17 PM

About that DFA Bernie endorsement. Why did I know the following without reading the article?

"The DFA endorsement comes after the group held an online vote"

Doctor Dean supports Hillary.

71 replies, 6123 views

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Reply About that DFA Bernie endorsement. Why did I know the following without reading the article? (Original post)
upaloopa Dec 2015 OP
HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #1
upaloopa Dec 2015 #28
HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #34
Agschmid Dec 2015 #2
WillyT Dec 2015 #6
Agschmid Dec 2015 #10
roguevalley Dec 2015 #63
merrily Dec 2015 #43
WillyT Dec 2015 #44
merrily Dec 2015 #50
WillyT Dec 2015 #53
Mnpaul Dec 2015 #59
BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #21
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #32
merrily Dec 2015 #38
BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #68
peacebird Dec 2015 #3
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #5
Agschmid Dec 2015 #7
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #9
Eric J in MN Dec 2015 #14
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #17
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #19
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #20
peacebird Dec 2015 #11
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #12
peacebird Dec 2015 #16
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #18
Fawke Em Dec 2015 #27
UglyGreed Dec 2015 #58
merrily Dec 2015 #45
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #22
Mnpaul Dec 2015 #60
BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #24
jeff47 Dec 2015 #42
Scuba Dec 2015 #69
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #70
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #4
BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #26
jeff47 Dec 2015 #40
sufrommich Dec 2015 #8
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #15
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #23
merrily Dec 2015 #46
Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #56
NurseJackie Dec 2015 #13
angrychair Dec 2015 #47
NurseJackie Dec 2015 #51
hedda_foil Dec 2015 #61
merrily Dec 2015 #48
NurseJackie Dec 2015 #49
Fawke Em Dec 2015 #25
NCTraveler Dec 2015 #29
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #33
merrily Dec 2015 #41
ViseGrip Dec 2015 #30
merrily Dec 2015 #31
Autumn Dec 2015 #35
merrily Dec 2015 #36
Autumn Dec 2015 #64
merrily Dec 2015 #65
Autumn Dec 2015 #66
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply .
merrily Dec 2015 #67
Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #37
DFW Dec 2015 #55
mythology Dec 2015 #62
merrily Dec 2015 #39
Tarc Dec 2015 #52
HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #54
highprincipleswork Dec 2015 #57
Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #71

Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:18 PM

1. Sour grapes much?

 

Hillary supporters had every opportunity to organize and win that poll, but they didn't.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:54 PM

28. I think we have been down this road before

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:05 PM

34. Just FYI

 

Out of those who were DFA members before this poll was launched, 78% voted for Bernie. Kinda throws that whole "But they just created multiple email addresses" thing out the window.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:18 PM

2. Here is the deal...

I voted in it, I voted for Hillary.

There does seem to be an enthusiasm gap, we knew winning this would be great.

We didn't win it.

Sure the race isn't over but this one does sting a bit.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:24 PM

6. Thanks Agschmid... The Dean Brothers Are On Opposite Sides Of This, Correct ???

 

If true, that's a microcosm right there.




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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:26 PM

10. I know where Howard stands but not the other one.

This is a win for Sanders.

I know I am going to get "concern troll" here but if he does end up being the nominee, we all better be ready to work out buts off as this would be a very different election.

This is true for either candidate to some degree.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 06:29 PM

63. agschmid, you get my thanks for your post. Its nice to see a nice

post like yours. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:27 PM

43. I would not assume that at all, WillyT. This is the membership telling DFA what to do.

I've seen stories since the Draft Warren days that indicated that, if DFA had its own way, instead of going to its members, they would have endorsed Hillary.

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Response to merrily (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:31 PM

44. I Thought I Remembered Reading It Somewhere... Maybe I Got It Confused With The Original Petition...

 

Which was directed to Jim Dean asking to endorse Bernie.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:40 PM

50. I don't know anything about Jim Dean individually. The stories I remember were about DFA.

One was an internal memo that got leaked suggesting Warren should run in the primary to make Hillary a better candidate. This was well before Sanders's informal announcement.

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Response to merrily (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:58 PM

53. Well... According To This, DFA Was Turned Over To Jim Dean In 2005:

 

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_for_America

And this is the petition drive addressed to him: https://www.change.org/p/democracy-for-america-endorse-bernie-sanders-in-the-2016-election

Maybe that's the source of my confusion... that or 100 other things...




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Response to merrily (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:05 PM

59. If Warren had entered the race

Bernie would have stayed out. He was watching to see if someone was going to run supporting the left wing of the party.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:36 PM

21. My only reservation about the endorsement

was that I believed that DFA members who actually have contributed financially to the organization for more than this election cycle should have been the only ones able to vote. I am not really sure what the qualifications were. They were likely spelled out somewhere but I didn't see them. It would be interesting to see a breakdown, if such is possible.

I am one of DFA's earliest members and I support DFA with a monthly contribution, in addition to contributing to candidates DFA endorses (I won't be tossing any extra funds in for Bernie though, unless he is the GE candidate). If my vote for Hillary was cancelled out by some newbie who has never contributed to DFA, I believe that I have a right to be somewhat pissed.

If those who voted for Bernie begin contributing to the organization - if they haven't previously done so - that's great for all Dems, IMO. DFA does good work.

Howard himself is still a Hillary supporter and continues to campaign for her. In the long run, I don't believe that DFA's endorsement of Bernie will matter as much as Howard's presence on the stump for Hillary.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:04 PM

32. They also released the proportion of DFA-members-previous-to-the-vote who voted Sanders

The result was 77%. Note that this isn't just financial backers. But it's something.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:14 PM

38. Howard Dean has not been in charge of DFA for 10 yrs.. Didn't you get an email about voting?

The politico story says it was a membership vote. Most of the members who did vote voted for Sanders.

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Response to merrily (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 18, 2015, 04:21 AM

68. I did get an email (>1, in fact) and

I certainly knew that Howard is not "in charge of" DFA now. I met Howard in person when he was DNC Chair.

But I have been with DFA since it was Dean for America. I didn't simply jump on the bandwagon for this election. I will continue to be a financial supporter for as long as DFA exists, no matter which candidate it supports in the primaries.

Can the majority of those who voted for Bernie say the same?

I am, however, very happy to note that in my email from Charles Chamberlain announcing the results, I have the option of not receiving emails about Bernie even though I will continue to receive them about other issues/candidates.

I will exercise that option. If Bernie makes it to the GE, I will reconsider. But for now, I have enough political spam.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:19 PM

3. You could only vote once, DFA member chose Bernie.

Hillary supporters are in for a rude deja vu when primary votes are cast....

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:23 PM

5. You could vote as many times as you wanted. Fact. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:24 PM

7. I only voted once.

Could you actually vote more than once?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:25 PM

9. Yes. All that was required was a good email address. I only voted once as well. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #9)


Response to NCTraveler (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:33 PM

17. They also did IP address monitoring (this was their 'security review').

You would have needed to use a VPN (or use a mobile phone + broadband connection)

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:35 PM

19. lol. IP monitoring. Would have had to use a mobile phone. Bigger lol. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:35 PM

20. Yes, I edited my post to mention that. Not quick enough I see.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:26 PM

11. I rcvd several invites, but after my first vote, it always showed who I had voted for and would have

Let me switch candidates, but not vote again.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:28 PM

12. All it took was a different email address. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:30 PM

16. Ah, well, I don't do that. One poll, one vote.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:34 PM

18. I normally don't vote in them. I did in this one. Once as well. I have a feeling most did just that.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:53 PM

27. I only voted once.

I have two good emails: personal and work.

But, as this was personal, I didn't double dip with my work email.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 04:47 PM

58. I have three emails

and I also only voted once. Never crossed my mind to do anything else. IMO it is a roundabout way to call those who support Bernie underhanded and unethical.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:32 PM

45. How do you know, if you didn't try to vote a second time? Also, it took more than one email addy.

They could have had an IP number system or a cookie preventing multiple votes. Hard to imagine they had no system in place.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:47 PM

22. Even if that were the case, it wouldn't explain why 77% of existing DFA members chose Bernie

That is still over the threshold, and is immune to the multiple e-mail signup scam. See below (emphasis mine)

Bernie Sanders has earned Democracy for America's endorsement in the 2016 Democratic presidential primary with an astonishing, record-breaking 87.9% of the vote (including 77.8% of voters who were already members of DFA prior to the poll being launched on December 7).

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:10 PM

60. Maybe the existing members had multiple emails

set up solely for the purpose of skewing the polling

Wait for it. It's coming.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:49 PM

24. I didn't realize that.

I do have four different email addresses. One I only use professionally in and one I never use for campaign contributions. Both are political spam-free zones.

But I only voted one time. I did get requests from DFA to vote that were sent to my third address that gets a lot of political spam generally - it was my first private email address ever and I hadn't really compartmentalized in those early days. But I only voted from the address I contribute from. I probably shouldn't have had any qualms about voting more than once, but ....

If this endorsement has the same problem as online polls generally ... hmmm.

I'm glad that Hillary continues to have Howard on her side. If I had to choose between a DFA endorsement and Howard, I'd always choose Howard.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:23 PM

42. It's not actually true.

77% of the vote was for Sanders, and came from people who were members of DFA before the vote started. So either you had to join DFA four times before voting started, or there's actual merit to these results.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 18, 2015, 09:20 AM

69. Then so could Hillary voters, if they could figure out how.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 18, 2015, 09:46 AM

70. Never said anything different.

 

I think Sanders staff is the ones currently concerned about how to use the Internet. Who are the other three? What did Sanders know and when did he know it. Great point about being computer savvy.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:23 PM

4. I think their process was ok.

 

A person had to get 67% of the online vote. An email address was what was needed. And another email address. And another one. They have seen the amazing blow-back from other groups who have endorsed Clinton. We have literally seen a whole group on the left promote the rhetoric that has been promoted by the right for generations; Union bosses are corrupt, this civil rights leader is bought and paid for, that one is a coward. It's really sad but DFA knows they will be ok supporting Sanders and that Clinton supporters won't relentlessly attack them online. As a Clinton supporter I know that DFA will be endorsing Clinton in about two months. I'm ok with that. I really don't want to see them bashed as so many other great progressive groups have been.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:52 PM

26. Same here. I love DFA.

And I believe that you are correct about the endorsement in a couple months, so I can live with this now.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:21 PM

40. Sanders got 77% of the vote of people who were DFA members before the vote.

And 77% is still above the threshold for endorsing.

So...your claim is Sanders supporters signed up with hundreds of fake email addresses to skew this vote...before the voting started.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:25 PM

8. Which means that by "DFA member" they mean

anyone who gave us their email address.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:28 PM

15. Correct. nt.

 

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:48 PM

23. See post 22. This talking point is pretty lame.

77% of existing DFA members (i.e. before the voting announcement went out) chose Bernie. 77% is still over the threshold. Your argument is invalid.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:34 PM

46. So people signed up with DFA before this poll just in case DFA did this poll?

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:19 PM

56. They have both of mine. I voted twice, because, online poll!

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:28 PM

13. It's a good endorsement. He was bound to get a few endorsements ... however ...

... when you look at HOW FEW and HOW SCARCE and HOW MEAGER Bernie's list of endorsements are, it's easy to understand why Bernie's fans would be excited and crowing. (Frankly, I'm a little surprised that he's having such a difficult time with endorsements.)

ONLY... it's interesting to note how Hillary's union endorsements were viewed as irrelevant by Bernie's fans, but Bernie's recent union endorsement is viewed with such joy (or perhaps "relief" would be a better term to use.)

Are they being hypocritical now, or was it just a case of jealousy and "sour-grapes" when it came to Hillary's very long list of endorsements?

I haven't yet seen a breakdown that compares the total number of members that the unions represent. I think it's safe to assume that based on the sheer volume of unions that have endorsed Hillary, hers would be larger, but what's the percentage? (80/20? 90/10? 95/5? 99/1?)

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:37 PM

47. Despite the fact

That most supporters of your candidate don't like the comparison, reality is reality, the endorsement split in December of 2007 was easily 80/20 in your candidate's favor and she was still leading in the polls by a large margin.

Despite the meme, as supporters of Bernie Sanders, we assume nothing and take nothing for granted.

As an aside, when looking at the candidate from each party with the most endorsements, on both the R and D side, the establishment candidates (HRC and Jeb!) have the most. The candidates with the most grassroots support and no SuperPACs, Bernie and tRump, endorsements are on the lower side.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:45 PM

51. I'm not sure about those numbers, but I am sure that it's not 2007.

With regard to the present day: As I said, it's a good-get for Bernie, and long overdue. He's got a lot of work ahead of him if he and his fans expect to catch up with Hillary.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:10 PM

61. You're right about the amount of work involved to get Bernie elected. Nobody said it would be easy.*

* caveat: except for a handful of very young and /or naive internet posters, and another few working for other candidates' campaigns or PACks.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:37 PM

48. Speaking of sour grapes....

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Response to merrily (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:40 PM

49. Yes?

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:51 PM

25. You had to give your name and contact information.

Once you got the email they sent to confirm, then you had to validate your vote.

This was NOT a simple "click."

But, that said, if Hillary fans can sit here on this website dissing online polls all day, why can't the find the time to go vote in them?

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:56 PM

29. Three clicks and twenty five or so characters. lol. Not just a simple click. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:05 PM

33. See post 22.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:21 PM

41. Aren't you also the author of Reply 4, stating the process was okay?

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:56 PM

30. By an OVERWHELMING MARGIN.....that is why.

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:56 PM

31. Centrist Doctor Dean hasn't been in charge of DFA since 2005.

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Response to merrily (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:07 PM

35. You beat me to it.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:13 PM

36. I saw you approaching, so I ran faster, just to be mean.

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Response to merrily (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 07:15 PM

64. Damn girl. You are quick

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Response to Autumn (Reply #64)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 07:16 PM

65. I'm also not above tripping people, so that helps.

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Response to merrily (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 07:20 PM

66. OMG you were so fast I didn't see you. Now I know why my knee hurts

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Response to Autumn (Reply #66)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 07:22 PM

67. .

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:14 PM

37. I haz a sads too.

 

Poor Dr Dean, his followers are in front of him and he doesn't know how to turn them around.

Democracy sucks, amirite?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:11 PM

55. If that post is for real, then you don't know Howard

Howard was stung by his early crash and burn in 2004. NOTHING has really fazed him since. If Hillary loses, then she loses. He isn't the candidate, so it won't change anything he's doing.

He does stuff like the march from Bangkok to the Burmese border to spotlight human slavery and trafficking.

Modern day slavery stings him. Missing out on his pick for the Democratic nomination would not.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:33 PM

62. Is that what you're going to say if as expected Clinton wins the nomination

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:20 PM

39. I don't care if people voted by carrier pigeon. It was still over 270,000 members who voted.

You know almost everyone in America has access to the internet, right? Not only Bernie supporters?

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 02:50 PM

52. But wait, when unions endorse Hillary....

The Sanders' Bros gnash & wail about the union chiefs committing vile acts of travesty against their members wishes. But now that a union endorses Bernie, it's punch & pie all around?

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Response to Tarc (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:05 PM

54. DFA isn't a union.

 

It's an activist organization. Bernie's CWA union endorsement, however, was given after months of polling its rank and file members unlike many of the other unions who have endorsed Hillary. Most of those endorsements were made by the union chiefs without any real consultation of their members. The classic one was the SEIU endorsement where the union reported that they polled its members, but what they actually did was poll *favorability* not who the members actually *supported*. Other unions just outright ignored their members. That is the key difference.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:27 PM

57. How did you know that the powers that be are trying to rig the nomination towards Hillary?

 

How did you know that the powers that be are trying to rig the nomination towards Hillary?

Well, because it's perfectly clear to everybody.

That's something that is incredibly annoying and counter-productive. And those who love Hillary should be doing everything in their power not to continue the trend towards anything that feels like an unfair nomination process. They should be encouraging Hillary and DWS to lighten up the process and negotiate a better debate schedule, etc. Because if these kind of numbers of people feel disenfranchised by what they see as an unfair process, how they act in the general is not likely to become a pretty picture.

If Hillary is actually the best candidate, let her prove it through a reasonable schedule of debates, not through back-channel means.

Howard Dean? Will never trust the man again entirely.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Dec 18, 2015, 09:48 AM

71. Are you thinking that people voted more than once in this?

 


Isn't that the argument against online polls? Somehow it isn't fair because the same people keep voting over and over again to skew the outcome?

I think you "knew" something you didn't know but just convinced yourself that you did. I can see why you support Hillary.



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