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Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:01 AM

 

Sanders supporters think he is the most honest politician. Why doesn't he talk about taxes needed?

In the last debate he was asked very directly how much he would raise the marginal rate on the highest tax bracket.

He said he hadn't worked that out yet. To be this is astonishing, that he is running on a platform of raising taxes on the rich but hasn't quite worked out that part yet.

Two months to the Iowa caucus and he hasn't even bothered to nail that down?

Socialism means sharing in both the costs and benefits (free health care, free education, infrastructure, etc). He keeps point at Denmark but does he talk about the taxes there as well? Why isn't he upfront about how much taxes he needs to raise from the middle class?

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Reply Sanders supporters think he is the most honest politician. Why doesn't he talk about taxes needed? (Original post)
hill2016 Nov 2015 OP
Fawke Em Nov 2015 #1
hill2016 Nov 2015 #22
Duckhunter935 Nov 2015 #32
Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #2
cascadiance Nov 2015 #4
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #7
jfern Nov 2015 #15
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #16
mythology Nov 2015 #34
Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #37
Duckhunter935 Nov 2015 #33
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #3
madokie Nov 2015 #19
hill2016 Nov 2015 #23
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #26
hill2016 Nov 2015 #39
riversedge Nov 2015 #28
hill2016 Nov 2015 #45
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #5
Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #6
Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #9
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #13
litlbilly Nov 2015 #17
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #8
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #14
pangaia Nov 2015 #10
gordyfl Nov 2015 #11
phleshdef Nov 2015 #12
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #18
madokie Nov 2015 #21
hill2016 Nov 2015 #24
Kentonio Nov 2015 #25
hill2016 Nov 2015 #46
pengu Nov 2015 #56
hill2016 Nov 2015 #59
Kentonio Nov 2015 #57
hill2016 Nov 2015 #58
Kentonio Nov 2015 #60
bobbobbins01 Nov 2015 #64
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #38
Recursion Nov 2015 #20
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #27
riversedge Nov 2015 #29
NurseJackie Nov 2015 #35
Fearless Nov 2015 #30
hill2016 Nov 2015 #40
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #43
Fearless Nov 2015 #47
hill2016 Nov 2015 #49
Fearless Nov 2015 #50
hill2016 Nov 2015 #52
Fearless Nov 2015 #54
Armstead Nov 2015 #63
firebrand80 Nov 2015 #31
Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #36
mmonk Nov 2015 #41
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #42
workinclasszero Nov 2015 #44
Capt. Obvious Nov 2015 #48
hill2016 Nov 2015 #51
Sheepshank Nov 2015 #53
tularetom Nov 2015 #55
hill2016 Nov 2015 #61
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #62

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:07 AM

1. He has.

Healthcare and Paid Family Leave: You pay a bit more in taxes (and we're talking a few dollars a week), but you don't have premiums and deductibles. You don't have to pay for out-of-pocket temporary unemployment insurance and/or you can stay home with your newborn or sick family member for longer than a week or two. You SAVE money.

Education: That's all a tax on Wall Street speculation. Unless you're a hedge fund manager or REALLY into playing the stock market for your 401K, this won't effect the average American.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:05 AM

22. numbers don't work

 

on a financials tax. won't cover free tuition for everyone.

what about other major proposal?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:45 AM

32. once again with the misinformation

 

If I did not know better, I would think you are just lying. It is not free education for everybody unless everybody goes to state and community colleges. That is all that is covered and Hillary and the Donald will still pay out of pocket to send their kids to the premium ivy league collages.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:12 AM

2. Hillary Clinton hasn't explained her tax policies.

Bernie Sanders supports Senator Kirsten Gillibrand's bill to pay for paid-family-and-medical leave through a small increase in the payroll tax.

Hillary Clinton says she's for paid-family-and-medical leave but against higher payroll taxes, and hasn't explained how she'll pay for it.

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:20 AM

4. Has she taken a stand on a war tax like Bernie has on millionaires?

 

That has those who profit from the military industrial complex PAY for our wars?

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/236463-sanders-to-push-war-tax-for-millionaires-to-finance-piece-of-gop-budget

Seems like Hillary's missing the policy here that most Americans will want to have bills paid PROPERLY by those profiting from the socialist gifts to the wealthy that our current corporatist government is engaged in.

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:23 AM

7. I wonder how she will pay for that war on Syria that I think she will get us in to. nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:45 AM

15. Wars never need to be paid for

Only things that actually help regular people need to be paid for. $2 trillion wars like Iraq that Hillary voted for just go on the credit card.

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Response to jfern (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:48 AM

16. Except for the lives of those they send to war. No credit available for that unfortunately.

Though we can hide the coffins and make it all seem okay.

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Response to jfern (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:05 AM

34. You do realize that Sanders voted to fund those same wars right?

 

And Sanders continues to support the F-35 program which has been nothing but a money sink, but it's a money sink that benefits Vermont.

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Response to mythology (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:41 AM

37. Senator Obama also voted to fund those wars, which he says he opposed from day one just like

 

Bernie, although Bernie had an actual no vote on Iraq and Obama was not yet in DC. Do you think Obama voting to fund the war means he was really for it all along? I don't.

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:46 AM

33. not to mention

 

the hundreds of billions of dollars of new infrastructure she just promised.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:17 AM

3. Attacking Bernie's honesty?

 

Which is considered one of his greatest assets. How Rovian of you.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:51 AM

19. To be expected

Hillary has holes in her rhetoric so big you can fly a 747 through them and not cause a soul to worry if it'll make it through unscathed.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:05 AM

23. and where's his plan

 

to pay for all his platform?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:11 AM

26. Maybe you ought to go have a look at said platform. Watch a few of his presentations?

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:22 AM

39. such as where?

 

does he have concrete numbers like say the highest marginal tax bracket?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:51 AM

28. LOTS of diversion posts but no responses to your good guestion.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:24 AM

45. yes

 

In my opinion, Sanders is all talk no plan.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:21 AM

5. Seems like a very honest answer to me. He has given estimates but giving exact numbers will need

to wait until he sees what can be passed. He has also said changes will be incremental. He knows what he is doing.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:23 AM

6. The answer is simple

 

If he disclosed the actual amount he would need to raise in taxes in order to pay for his agenda, people would run away from him in droves.

He obviously thinks it's a better strategy to keep people in the dark.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:44 AM

9. Somehow in Canada the voters didn't run away from

...candidates who support single-payer and vote in candidates who eliminated it.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:33 AM

13. Of course, obviously WE CAN'T find a way to help all citizens!

Love the Hillary supporters new motto!

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:01 AM

17. run away in droves to who? Hillary ? Not a chance...

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:28 AM

8. If he said how high the tax rate would go but he will give the rate.

He can't pay for his policies without digging in really deep into our pockets. He talked about cutting defense spending but forgets about his votes to keep the money flowing. We don't have to worry about enough tax increases to get his programs funded.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:35 AM

14. What is sad is how some aren't willing to pay a bit more to ensure everyone actually

gets equal treatment. It is not just sad, it is disgusting. Sorry, I refuse to join the WE CAN'T campaign.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:45 AM

10. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm going to bed..
I'm reading KITCHEN CONFIDENTIAL for the third time..

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:10 AM

11. Most Americans Willing to Pay Higher Taxes for...

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:27 AM

12. He was being honest when he said he hadn't worked it all out yet.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:42 AM

18. Those raises would be more than compensated by reduced health care costs.

 

And when Sanders says: "I have not worked that out yet" he means that there are several options for taxing the rich (increased taxes on capital gains over a certain amount, closing tax loopholes, going after tax dodgers a.k.a. getting Romney upset, specific fees on financial transactions for collaterised speculation) and he wants congress to discuss the merits of them all before he puts his political capital behind one or more in specific.

Clinton: "I'll say what you want me to say, then do what I plan to do, and meanwhile my opponent is socialism socialism socialism"

It used to be the GOP who campaigned like that. What happened?

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:56 AM

21. Simple

Hillary is a 'CON in democratic clothing


I will vote for hillary if she is the last one standing but only then will I. I am a 100% democratic party voter

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:09 AM

24. what if he plans to raise

 

taxes on the middle class?

would that be okay with you?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:56 AM

25. Is the middle class still people earning $250,000?

 

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:29 AM

46. $250k

 

doesn't go very far in my town once you factor in taxes, rental, private school (which can be as much as tuition at some colleges), nanny, housekeeping, etc.

You're barely breaking even.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:02 PM

56. Private School, Nanny, House Keeping

lol

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Response to pengu (Reply #56)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:26 PM

59. do you have any idea

 

how much these cost?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:08 PM

57. Brilliant.

 

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:26 PM

58. do you have any idea

 

how much these cost?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:27 PM

60. Do you have any idea

 

What middle class is?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:05 PM

64. This is a joke, correct?

Please tell me its a joke.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:10 AM

38. Define middle class, and tell me which is more important:

 

keeping taxes low or increasing effective consumer spending power.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:55 AM

20. All it takes is a calculator

He's talking about roughly a 12% payroll levy, or a 20% VAT, or some combination of them, above all current revenues (that's for healthcare, not his free tuition idea; he also has a financial transaction tax proposal that he's committed to both healthcare and college tuition -- it could pay for about a quarter of either). He's also implicitly saying physicians will take about a 40% pay cut across the board.

You can jigger with the payroll levy rate by making it more progressive, but that's the order of magnitude we're looking at.

But, to the larger point, yeah: Sanders's refusal to actually get down to numbers on this is incredibly disappointing.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:18 AM

27. Why don't you listen?

 

You have no clue what Democratic Socialism is.

Healthcare isn't free in a Democratic Socialist country. Neither is education. Universal healthcare would cost about 9% of the average budget. Below is what we pay now. Universal healthcare is cheaper, and you don't have to lose everything when you get sick. It's basic math.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:53 AM

29. It would be political suicide, that is the reason.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:33 AM

35. It's a cotton candy campaign.

Big and fluffy. An exciting, pretty and impressive sight. But look closely and you'll see that it's mostly air, no nutritional value and filled with empty calories.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:26 AM

30. Ahhh. The straw grasping continues.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:26 AM

40. where are his plans

 

on how to raise revenue?

what is the highest marginal tax rate

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:47 AM

43. They truly don't care.

 

The mask is being removed and it is clear they just have to try to stick to hero status. Reality doesn't conform to what they have built up for Sanders. They think they can just mock people and it is a winning strategy. They keep pointing all while forgetting that four fingers are pointing back at their finger waving asses.

To them wanting to discuss issues is "grasping." One hundred percent confirmed by the post you just replied to. Wanting to actually discuss the nuts and bolts is "grasping." If that wasn't their reply it would simply be deflection. "Well Hillary..... Whahhhhh."

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:30 AM

47. I'm sorry facts aren't up for debate.

I'm not going to engage you over your misinformation.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:36 AM

49. this is a fact

 

from the last debate:


[Question]:

Well, let's get specific, how high would you go? You said before you'd go above 50%. How high?

BERNIE SANDERS:

We haven't come up with an exact number yet.



LOL. You couldn't even get away with this excuse in junior high...

"I haven't come up with an exact number yet."

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:40 AM

50. Regarding the wealthy. And he shouldn't make up numbers

Your lack of understanding of economic policy is clear. I will not debate misinformation.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #50)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:42 AM

52. in order words

 

you have no answer

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:44 AM

54. No my dear, you have no clue.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

63. His plans are there...You are free to agree or disagree with them

 

But don' lie and continually claim he is lying.

For example his plan is to tax speculkation to cover public college costs.

Okay, may that will cover it, maybe it won't. Maybe it's fair maybe it's discriminatory.

Those are honest differences of opinion. And maybe Bernie would try it but in running the theoritical nmumkbers once in office numbers finds it doesn't cover it all. That's happened to many (most) politicians. Remember Reagan and GHW Bush? And Bill Clinton's campaign promises in that regard? They all had to adjust.


But don't repeatedly make this phony claim that sanders is promising free shit without saying how he'd pay for it.,

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:22 AM

31. Because he's not a serious candidate

He's probably already gotten further than he thought he would. No point in fixing what ain't broke.

He still has time to make this a serious run if he wants to. We'll see what happens.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:37 AM

36. See, dishonest is when you carry on as if you had it all worked out ala Obama on mandates

 

Obama as candidate asserted that Hillary was out to pick your pocket with individual mandates to buy insurance which Obama mocked 'trying to solve health care by mandating insurance purchase is like trying to solve homelessness by mandating that everyone buy a house'.
Then of course, as it turned out, he either knew he was spinning bull or he simply had not really figured it out at all but still allowed himself to carry on about how right he was, how wrong she was.

I guess that's dandy with some of you, but I sure as hell don't want to do business with those who see that as ethical behavior.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:31 AM

41. He has. But honest numbers are hard

to come by when the media and parties are dishonest and mostly concerned about not taxing the well to do or corporations.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:45 AM

42. He is a career politician.

 

Please note your own quote: "Sanders supporters think he is the most honest politician."

That really isn't saying much. They have also stated he is on his way to winning fifty states, that POC are stupid if they don't support him, that being an insider and career politician is somehow signs of being an outsider, that pandering to the right is wonderful but only when one candidate does it, etc..

It's just comical at this point. How did his speech on socialism that won the election for him go? Then notice what they did with moveon. Op after op about Clinton not attending yet not a damn one of them actually watched. True comedy gold.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:40 AM

44. This is why Bernie could never be elected President

 

Could you imagine the field day the republicans would have with Bernie? OMG

Every debate, every campaign commerical would be about them forcing Bernie to admit that all the free stuff he is offering is in fact, not free and the voters, rich poor and in between, will be paying for them with much increased taxes.

One way to mitigate the huge tax increases needed would be to gut our bloated military and close most overseas military bases which I am in favor of but lots of voters aren't unfortunately.

So democratic candidate Bernie will be tagged by the thugs as 1. A hardcore leftist/communist 2. A lover of taxes 3. Weak on defence

And....

Say hello to President Trump and may God have mercy on this idiot/fascist country! The SCOTUS will be hard right for the next 30 years or so as well.

Bernie and his followers know the american people will run like hell away from him if he was to discuss how his pie in the sky plans get paid for hence the secrecy/silence on their part.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:30 AM

48. Your obsessive concern about tax and spend liberals is noted

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #48)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:41 AM

51. I've heard the spend part

 

I haven't heard the tax part from Sanders yet.

And I mean real proposals not some fluffy "tax the rich and we don't have to tax anyone else".

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:43 AM

53. Do you realize what would happen if Hillary came out some airy fairy calculation...

 

...on something as important as raising taxes to an unspecified level?

OMFG, the anguish, the wailing and gnashing of teeth.....it would be just another cause for impotent outrage because of "oligarchs" or "war hawk" or "$12/HR" or "e-mail" ...................

Looks like Bernie will get a pass on this by his followers.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:45 AM

55. You really hate taxes don't you?

Maybe the tea party would be a better fit for you.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #55)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:46 PM

61. well

 

do you think that Sanders should just announce "our plan is we're gonna tax everyone!!!!"?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:50 PM

62. "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

 

A questionable outcome considering how much we waste on the MIC, elections, and payoffs to corporations but still apt.

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