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Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:25 PM

 

If single payer health care saves so much money, why didn't Vermont adopt it?

Just curious.

38 replies, 1432 views

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Reply If single payer health care saves so much money, why didn't Vermont adopt it? (Original post)
hill2016 Nov 2015 OP
vt_native Nov 2015 #1
hill2016 Nov 2015 #2
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #9
Depaysement Nov 2015 #14
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #18
Fawke Em Nov 2015 #28
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #36
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #3
JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #30
arcane1 Nov 2015 #4
yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #10
Kingofalldems Nov 2015 #15
msongs Nov 2015 #5
hill2016 Nov 2015 #8
Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #17
hill2016 Nov 2015 #24
MannyGoldstein Nov 2015 #32
Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #6
JaneyVee Nov 2015 #7
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #11
Tace Nov 2015 #12
leftofcool Nov 2015 #13
sleepyvoter Nov 2015 #16
zipplewrath Nov 2015 #19
DianeK Nov 2015 #20
hill2016 Nov 2015 #25
riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #21
hill2016 Nov 2015 #26
JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #31
riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #33
GoneFishin Nov 2015 #22
Autumn Nov 2015 #23
hill2016 Nov 2015 #27
jeff47 Nov 2015 #29
Autumn Nov 2015 #38
MaggieD Nov 2015 #34
Oilwellian Nov 2015 #35
My Good Babushka Nov 2015 #37

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:29 PM

1. Because Peter Shumlin ran as a liberal and governed as a Third Wayer

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Response to vt_native (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:32 PM

2. oh

 

I was thinking it was because the maths doesn't work or something.

where the rubber meets the road...

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Response to vt_native (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:49 PM

9. Bingo.

Don't you love all these flatlanders 'splaining what went wrong from on high at Camp Weathervane?

Damn that Bernie for not being able to wave a magic wand and get state legislation passed from his office in Washington DC.

Let's not even try at all, coronate the queen and be happy with our lot.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:02 PM

14. Sorry but

I thought the first sentence was hysterical.

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Response to Depaysement (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:10 PM

18. For months I've had to listen to these "experts" blather on about Vermont.

It's too white, too blue, too progressive, now it's not progressive enough, blah blah blah.

Ever since Bernie's announcement from the waterfront in Burlington when they counted dark faces in the crowd and declared "Not Good Enough, Bernie!". They even criticized him because there were yachts in the background ffs.

Vermonters are supposed to be ashamed of where we're from according to these arm chair activists.

Sorry, rant over. Thanks for getting it.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:24 PM

28. If I could get my elderly Mom to move, I'd be in Vermont or

someplace in New England.

I LIKE the cold.

I LIKE progressives.

I LIKE making more money.

But, alas, my Mom would be alone if my family moved, so it's not to be (and she won't move. She thinks Tennessee is cold! LOL)

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:18 AM

36. I wish I could get my s/o to move to Vermont.

I do believe the cold would kill him.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:33 PM

3. At 18th in per capita income...

 

It seems they should have the income necessary.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:29 PM

30. A question: can a person making $100k fund their own health insurance plan

at reasonable costs? And guarantee that any health issue that pops up will be covered?

If the answer is no, then that means there is a break-even point where the economies of scale that single-payer health insurance relies on kicks in.

Now, this is not to say that VT could or could not implement SP healthcare. It does mean that United States should have an easier time with the budgeting than Vermont, provided that is what prevented Vermont from succeeding in implementing the plan.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:34 PM

4. Which has what to do with the Dem primary?

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:50 PM

10. Probably because senator sanders' homestate said no to single payer. And he campaigns on the topic.

 

That's just a hunch to your question.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:03 PM

15. Wow. And you are a Sanders supporter?

Your post doesn't seem the least bit supportive.

Yet just a while back:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251417437

Did you change your mind or something?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:34 PM

5. perhaps because of the extremely small population? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:46 PM

8. you do realize that Sanders' single payer plan

 

will be administered by the states?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:09 PM

17. And yet not paid for entirely by each single State. Which is the point, not the administration but

 

the financing. Vermont is a very small pool for making such a system, the US is not.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:17 PM

24. so where are the costs savings in administration going to come from?

 

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:33 PM

32. Private insurers spend about 20% on 'overhead'

 

Medicare, about 2%.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:38 PM

6. According to the governor of Vermont

Why single payer died in Vermon
“It is not the right time for Vermont” to pass a single-payer system, Shumlin acknowledged in a public statement ending his signature initiative. He concluded the 11.5 percent payroll assessments on businesses and sliding premiums up to 9.5 percent of individuals’ income “might hurt our economy.”


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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:46 PM

7. Because it cost too much money.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:50 PM

11. If Private Insurance works so damn much better, why not scrap Medicare?

just curious.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:00 PM

12. Shumlin Didn't Want To Chase Co's From Vermont

It turned out that some of the few big companies operating in Vermont self-insure and threatened to leave the state if Shumlin's plan was implemented.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:01 PM

13. It cost too much to tax payers?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:03 PM

16. Ask the Hillary supporter Shumlin as to why he killed it.

 

While you're at it, why not ask him about his neighborly screwing?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:15 PM

19. Can't be done state to state

Especially small states such as this. Too much cross border shenanigans for one thing. Also, they don't have the negotiation clout to accomplish much. It's the same reason Texas dominates the text book industry so much, and California can have special emission standards. Single payer should start at the federal level. Texas or California, and maybe Florida could try it on a state level, (although I suspect Florida's income level is too low to support it). But in the end, it's a bit like gun control, on a local or state level you just can't get the result you're looking for.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:18 PM

20. wait...did i stumble upon

 

a Republican web site?

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Response to DianeK (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:18 PM

25. yup

 

look at how viciously Hillary is attacked here.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:20 PM

21. Economies of scale. Single payer needs everyone in, not just a small fraction

 

to make it economically feasible.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:19 PM

26. Sanders' plan

 

is for single payer to be administered by the states.

What does that do for economies of scale?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:31 PM

31. Administered is not the same as paid for by.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:39 PM

33. Drug price negotiations will be more successful with 50 states bargaining

 

as a block rather than one (small) state for example.

Federal programs can be administered by each state. Education comes to mind, as does various EPA efforts.

There are models


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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:41 PM

22. People wanted it, not all political decision makers did. Ambitious plans are easily sabotaged by

one well placed insider whose goals are not aligned with the majority.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:47 PM

23. What's Hillary been up to lately? nt

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Response to Autumn (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:19 PM

27. proposing

 

tax credits for the middle class.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:25 PM

29. Actually, she was proposing a tax credit for the poor.

Those "caregivers" don't make anywhere near enough to be middle class.

But hey, I'm sure they can hold on until they get one lump sum every year. WAAAAY better than actually closing the loophole that keeps minimum wage from applying to them.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:20 AM

38. Oh the tax credit thing? How does that help the middle class? Will the poor be

eligible?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:41 PM

34. Because it doesn't save money

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:01 AM

35. Perhaps because Obamacare prevents any state from implementing it til 2017?

State or Federal Single Payer?

In 2017, states will be able to get a waiver to set up their own approved health care solutions, as long as they meets the standards of the Affordable Care Act. This will technically allow states to implement single payer systems on a state level, Vermont has already stated this is the direction they will take. Single payer systems are typically thought of something handled by the federal government, but in America it more likely that we will see single payer on a state level first.

The success of a state-based single payer program is likely to have an influence over whether or not we implement a single payer system as a country. “RomneyCare” was implemented in Massachusetts years before “ObamaCare” (which uses an almost identical framework) became “the law of the land”.

Obamacare Facts

I guess you thought this was a gotcha question. LOL

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 06:27 AM

37. Probably because we've let health insurance companies

and hospital groups grow so large, they are too big for a single state to negotiate with them. They act like their own countries and set all the conditions. The power is still all on one side. It would take everybody in, at this point, to balance it out.

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