2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSad to say, just my opinion and nothing against Mrs. Clinton's supporters, I do not
think Bernie has a chance of winning the Democratic nomination. Omalley is way behind. Mrs. Clinton is inevitable! Even if you do not like her, she is better than any republican, republicans are not progressive.
You all have to vote for Hillary if she is the nominee, otherwise, there are stakes at the supreme court. Just my two cents from across the border. We got Justin Trudeau and we are proud!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)All we have to do is get the vote out. Hill will probably crash and Bern the way she is going.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)have to do the same you did for President Obama to get the vote out. Somehow, I trust Mr. Sanders to do his best for America. He is so sincere. Do not want to beat down Mrs. Clinton but cannot forget how she went after Mr. Obama during the primaries when she lost. Mrs. Clinton thinks she is entitled, however, the voters have the last say! Time will tell, it is a long haul!
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)The numbers among key demographics don't favor him.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)and televangelists are "sincere, " too.
I don't look for "sincerity" in a politician. I look for competence and experience, both of which Clinton has and Bernie lacks.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)They know the the crap they are selling is crap...they just want to make money and they know if they sell it well enough, they will.
To me sincerity in a politician is extremely important.
Maybe you should recheck the definition of sincere?
free from pretense or deceit; proceeding from genuine feelings
okasha
(11,573 posts)or truer feelings than creationists and climate change deniers.
"Sincerity" is a feel-good meme, not an indication of competent and effective performance.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Sincerity is NOT a meme. It is a personal goal and choice.
Sincerity can go hand-in-hand with effectiveness. One does not necessarily exclude the other.
It's your choice to vote for insincere politicians if you willingly give up sincerity for experience and effectiveness. Many bad leaders have been effective, and led humanity into atrocities.
It's my choice to want to vote for those who are wise, sincere, moral, compassionate for others, as well as effective.
okasha
(11,573 posts)who actually does meet those criteria, let us know. I regard Bernie Sanders as deeply insincere and manipulative, particularly in re his positions on guns, the MIC, immigration and his actual record on civil rights. I realize you may not understand how that could be, but I expect my life experience is very different from yours.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)that does not alter the truth about Bernie. Your experiences may alter your opinion about Bernie.
I can see there is no 'real' discussion here, as you've tried to impugn Bernie's sincerity and integrity, but have not offered a bit of evidence to back it up. Just your biased opinions. I have no opinions about Bernie other that those based on what I've read about his service, record, and history, which are all publically available (I'm not talking about biased web sources), which apparently are different than the sources you've read. Not surprising.
Bye!
okasha
(11,573 posts)when it became likely he would seek the Dem presidential nomination. I concluded that he was a good senator, but not presidential material. That remains my opinion. I have seen no facts that would change it.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)fear is that if Mrs. Clinton gets the nod, she will not be able to get voters out. Gosh, damned if do or not. The world do not want a republican in power, can you imagine if a republican gets elected.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I suggest you keep your contact info private. A lot of people are thinking longingly of a possible flight across the border.
Semi-serious jokes aside, be brave and believe that what you have accomplished up there is part of a large wave. Just hope it raises our boat too.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)a sad day in American history. Imagine two retards running for the highest office in the US, where the world looks up to the US! Those two fuckers (pardon my English) are not qualified. Right now, these fuckers are making the US politics and the primary as a fucking joke. Who are taking these idiots seriously? Sorry for swearing but that is how I make my point!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)claiming to like them, I suspect most of their support is from angry people who rightly finally realize they've been betrayed and are foolishly doubling down on their own long pattern of GIGO voting. Except for those religious true believers, of course, who think they may have found the true bible-waver in Carson. (Taking him out, though, moves up The Anointed One, Cruz.)
IMO, the right has been lead far from reality for decades now and deliberately encouraged to be the worst versions of themselves, but there can't be many who actually hope to elect either of these anti-GOP-establishment statements. These must be great days for young social scientists and psychologists to launch new reputations and careers on at least.
Sigh...
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Clinton is not inevitable before a single vote has been cast. People can still make up their mind.
Until and not before Mrs. Clinton has the nomination we will continue to fight for Bernie because he best represents us. I care not a whit what other states' voters do: do you let your family members' voting preferences decide your vote for you? No, right? Then why much less would you let a bunch of Iowans and New Hampshirians (some of whom, I assume, are good people ) decide your vote? I will be voting in the California primary for Bernie no matter what. And I will promote him until the very end (which will be November 2016 since he is going to win the nomination)
And if nothing else, I'll quote Mrs. Clinton herself on this:
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Who else is her adversary, Omalley and Sanders, hell no! Sanders is good but Americans are not ready for a democratic revolution. Big mistake on Bernie's campaign!
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)And how dare Bernie run against her! How unthoughtful to challenge her.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)nomination. Mrs Clinton is whom you have to vote for, it is that simple!
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)And even if I did, the voting booth is private: there are laws against forcing how I must vote. Are you trying to break 18 U.S. Code § 594 ? Should I report you to the authorities?
Still haven't said why I should eat my words.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Mrs. Clinton is the annointed nominee, she has the super pack and she will be your President!
God help us when she becomes President, she will bomb the shit out of Syria. Good luck Americans, you have a year to choose Mrs. Clinton!
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)There is no bubble to burst: I will vote for whomever I like in the primary regardless of what you tell me of who is "inevitable". If enough people do the same, she will not be inevitable. That's why we vote.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)However, it would be best if you do not vote for a republican, those fools are anti-human and they feel that you have to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. Those clowns are a different species from regular Americans.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)by default if you withhold your vote for the Democratic nominee. I do not trust my rights to Carson's conscience, or to yours.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)"Hillary is the anointed one, has the super pacs." Totally bullshit all around.
Bernie Sanders will win by a land slide unseen before.
frylock
(34,825 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)Bullshit.
Yet you admit that you can't even vote in our election. Enough from you akbacchus_BC
The word is anointed. OK
demwing
(16,916 posts)if so, you forgot to use the
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Do your civic duty and vote for Sanders.
Is this supposed to be fun? This shoving of candidates down each other's throats after 2 debates and still months before the first primary vote is cast? It just doesn't seem fun.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and his supporters. That is why they are limiting the debates, the KNOW this country is ready for someone like Bernie. They know that Clinton has practically zero cross over appeal.
Btw, congrats on getting rid of Harper finally in your country. A lot of people thought it wasn't possible. Same thing in the UK, all the experts got it wrong there too.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)You'll take what you're given dammit!!! Now go watch some MSM and STFU already!
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)That is how politics work in the US, either a Dem or a republican gains control. I just do not want a republican to be elected.
It astonishes me that a country of over 300 million people have only two parties! The Dems are always better than the rethugs as far as I know.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Not a chance in hell Trudeau would get in. Kind of shoots your theory all to heck. 'Inevitable' is just a term used for those not willing or able to consider the alternative.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Americans, and women. For those who disagree (vehemently, as always) I clearly wrote "the majority", not all, and in a democracy, the majority wins.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251776157
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)and tried, but we know that will not happen. This ISIS retaliation is because of the US and its partners in crimes who decided to invade Iraq for no reason. The invaders take no responsibility and it is sad what they did to Iraq and Afghanistan. No superpower has the right to invade a sovereign country but it happens all the time
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.
Authorizes the President, after notifying specified congressional committees, to provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations: (1) grant assistance for radio and television broadcasting to Iraq; (2) Department of Defense (DOD) defense articles and services and military education and training (IMET); and (3) humanitarian assistance, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled from areas under the control of the Hussein regime. Prohibits assistance to any group or organization that is engaged in military cooperation with the Hussein regime. Authorizes appropriations.
Directs the President to designate: (1) one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that meet specified criteria as eligible to receive assistance under this Act; and (2) additional such organizations which satisfy the President's criteria.
Urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.
Expresses the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people and democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, including convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to the foreign debt incurred by the Hussein regime.
Four years later, the above Act was included in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq in 2002 (commonly known as the Iraq War Resolution or IWR). It references the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 in the language of the AUMF Against Iraq. Check out the 17th paragraph: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm
[center]
Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) expressed[/center]
the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United
States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi
regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to
replace that regime;
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)that Hispanics would vote republican aka Ana Navarro, she is a strong republican!
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I don't know much about Governor Navarro, so I won't comment on her.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)are wrong. The majority of African Americans used to oppose marriage equality, those of us who supported the LGBT African Americans had to join that minority in advocating equality to the majority.
I know it upsets you if I link to your own 'gay marriage is to me unthinkable' posts, they were a long time ago. But your mind changed. You were wrong. Those who stood up to you, the majority in the wrong, did the right thing.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I remember a LOT of those. It wasn't expedient. It wasn't the time. No one was thinking about gay marriage. Advocating for gay marriage will hurt the Democratic Party. And much MUCH more. I remember well and the poster to which you are addressing was right out in front. It was all about political expediency, much like Clinton's vote to slaughter tens of thousands of Americans and a million Iraqis -- because she wanted to run for prezzy because, after all, it's her turn.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)why are DWS and her cabal stooping to ever new lows to prevent him from getting it? If his support keeps growing is spite of adversity and bought-and-paid-for polls, how would you rate his chances?
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)was nasty towards Obama and she wants to be the President of the US, no matter what. She can smell it but if it is her against a republican, I prefer her. I am so sick and tired of the Bushes and the Clintons. What happened to good Democrats like Howard Dean?
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)I have no idea!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Former Goldwater girls who found that the GOP had become too right-wing, and therefore spent their lives trying to make the Democratic Party into the GOP of yore. That sort of thing.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)people control the electorate! Hence the manipulation of the voters!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Although the campaign financing laws are contributing as well to the permanence of the two-party system. As does gerrymandered districting.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)[font size ="1"]President Bill Clinton with Al From, president of the Democratic Leadership Council, at a conference in 2000.[/font size]
New Democrats, in the politics of the United States, are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are identified with centrist social/cultural/pluralist positions and neoliberal fiscal values. They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions
After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner. The DLC disbanded in 2011 during an apparent re-branding of the New Democrat movement when money ties to the Koch bros. and Koch representatives placed on the DLC's board embarrassingly became common knowledge among the Democratic left. The DLC is survived by the Third Way, The New Democrat Coalition, and Al From's Progressive Policy Institute among other corporate funded groups that continue to sell their Economic-Right/Social-Left brand of "Centrism" to America.
The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies.
Third Way was created as a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various center-right progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the state; economic interventionist policies that had previously been popularized by Keynesianism and contrasted with the corresponding rise of popularity for neo liberalism and the New Right. In a sense, 80s Moderate Republicans are almost identical to "Third Way" Democrats.
I strongly believe it's time for a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various center-left progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the neoliberal corporate policies previously popularized by Reagan and Thatcher! For thirty years we have all but abandoned liberal solutions to economic problems, chasing instead the snake oil of supply side economics, austerity and neoliberal trade policy. These right wing policies have failed miserably, and rather than learn from the New Democrats failed experiments, the center-right faction of the democratic party has chosen instead to double down on failure with more free trade and austerity measures (to include cuts to Social Security).
In the face of a new gilded age of extreme wealth contrasted by an exponentially growing rate of poverty, a rapidly shrinking middle class and the emergence of an elite class of bankers, politicians and other predatory behemoths that are held firmly above the law and enabled to steal the remaining crumbs of wealth held by the masses without repercussion, it is not only time to return to Democratic principles of old that created the strongest most prosperous middle class in our history, it is time to reverse the damage done by the right thinking "New" Democrats and their failed policies with a new populism based on the needs of the people over the elite.
We do not need a "Fourth Way" to accomplish this, all we need is a return to the fundamentals of Keynesianism, a strong commitment to labor, increased spending on social programs (rather than cuts), progressive taxation, and an end to the cancer of privatization that would reduce the commons and the basic needs of the populace (such as health care and drinking water etc.) into the cash cows of profiteers of human suffering
Time to dump the "Third Way" for the unquestionably effective "Democratic way" made successful by the New Deal, The Great Society, and civil liberties. Our party can not serve two masters, the choice is clear, they must serve the financial elite, or the economically struggling populace
My choice has already been made.
TSIAS
(14,689 posts)Don't worry. I'll take my zombie-like body to the polls next November and pull the lever for the inevitable one. I can't let her group of fans on DU dissuade me from voting against the Republican candidate.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)We determine which party we prefer and vote accordingly. Democratic all the way.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)leaving now and best regards. Time difference is not on my side. Bye for now
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and make your voice heard.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and make your voice heard.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And back in 2004, Kerry was hopeless. Bill Clinton didn't stand a chance for the nomination in '92, much less the general.
I've learned enough to know that the media is usually howling out its ass, that polls are often inaccurate, and that people who rely on media narratives and poll numbers as their sole case are generally desperate people with nothing else going for them.
There's three months to go, and then the kingmaker states. and I dunno if you know, but Americans in general really don't care for "anointed one" candidates - even less so among democrats. I have no idea if Sanders will win. Hell, I have no idea if O'Malley won't. But I'm not going to sit here and accept some silly prognosis in November that the race is "over" before a single ballot is cast - again, that rhetoric reeks of desperation and lack of merit.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)vote in our elections telling you who to vote for.
People that will not *live* under the laws said politician passes, but they are exceptionally fond of telling you who you should support.
Ino
(3,366 posts)If Bernie has no chance, our votes for him just won't matter.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)once he or she has been chosen by the voters.
Until then I'm supporting Bernie to become our nominee!
MisterP
(23,730 posts)vacuous statement
what do I win?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm going to start stating: Register to vote.
If you are going to offer advice as to who our country should elect, you need to have some skin in the game via getting up off of your behind to vote if you are eligible.
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Duckfan
(1,268 posts)Many of us don't have the negative thought process that you do. Sorry dude. You're out in left field on this one.
Now kindly move along. The next web site is just down the hall.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Thought you were going to say, "Bieber" there for a sec.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)All a consequence of the DNC DWS DLC Third-Way diminishing progressive voices within the party to satisfy Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks - the 1%.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)I am from Minnesota which is reliably blue. So it should go for Hillary should she be the nominee. However, she generates as much excitement around here as a dead flashlight battery.
And SO many people despise the Clintons. I am somewhat neutral but both are IMHO simply not genuine.
I really do worry that if (I think in the end it will be Rubio) and Hillary go head to head we will have a Republican president.
Thom Hartmann keeps citing polls about how Bernie does against Trump et al and he beats them all by 10 points. However oddly enough the MSM doesn't seem interested.
I hope I am wrong. I do. But I have a bad feeling about the election.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Whether I do or don't, it won't matter in my state. My state will go Blue, with or without my vote.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Response to akbacchus_BC (Original post)
NurseJackie This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)but I'm growing tired of this whole "Hillary is better than any Republican" bullshit when many of her polices ARE Republican!
Hillary is NOT progressive. She's not FDR, she's NOT Teddy, she's NOT Nader and she sure as hell IS NOT Bernie!
She's a DINO. Period.
Trudeau is so far left of Hillary it's stupid. Oh, what is Trudeau? According to many Hillary supporters, he's a "socialist". Ewwwww scary.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)I simply can't bring myself to cast a ballot for someone I utterly despise and the diseased centrist movement she represents in the Democratic party. Voting for Clinton would be an utter violation of my deepest-held values.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Where did you get that from Bread and Circus?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Mrs. Clinton is my choice if Mr. Sanders does not get the nomination. No argument about that. I saw a pic of President Obama and our PM, Mr. Justin Trudeau and it warmed my heart. Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trudeau will work together as a team.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)However, all am saying is that if Mrs. Clinton is the nominee, please do not abstain from voting. She is better than any republican.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)identical thread to 286,506 per day we get here talking about EXACTLY the same thing. Here's a clue: NEVER EVER tell anyone who they HAVE to vote for. This bullshit is going to backfire on the Democrats and the DNC so bad they don't even see it coming. We've tried to warn them but they STILL don't see it coming.