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Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:39 AM

 

Sanders or Clinton: Who would be more effective with a Republican Congress?

I am a firm Sanders supporter, having donated a small amount to his campaign. One of my workmates is a firm Clinton supporter and we have had several spirited and civil discussions of the respective candidates' merits.

His principal reason for supporting Clinton is that he thinks she will be able to work more effectively with a Republican Congress. He makes a compelling case, so I am curious to see what folks here think of this issue.

Who would work better with a Republican Congress?
Does such a concern matter in deciding whom to support?
Should it matter?
Why or why not?

81 replies, 3916 views

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Reply Sanders or Clinton: Who would be more effective with a Republican Congress? (Original post)
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 OP
Turbineguy Nov 2015 #1
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #3
fredamae Nov 2015 #29
upaloopa Nov 2015 #2
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #9
BootinUp Nov 2015 #4
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #10
BootinUp Nov 2015 #12
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #5
PATRICK Nov 2015 #6
TBF Nov 2015 #7
randys1 Nov 2015 #26
fredamae Nov 2015 #31
Dawgs Nov 2015 #8
in_cog_ni_to Nov 2015 #11
bkkyosemite Nov 2015 #13
Bernin4U Nov 2015 #14
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #15
Bernin4U Nov 2015 #16
Maedhros Nov 2015 #28
berni_mccoy Nov 2015 #17
elleng Nov 2015 #18
riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #40
elleng Nov 2015 #41
riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #43
elleng Nov 2015 #45
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #49
elleng Nov 2015 #50
kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #19
JaneyVee Nov 2015 #20
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #65
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #21
Blue_In_AK Nov 2015 #22
Smart Brother Nov 2015 #23
lostnfound Nov 2015 #24
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #47
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #61
Uncle Joe Nov 2015 #25
HassleCat Nov 2015 #27
Maedhros Nov 2015 #30
yourout Nov 2015 #38
Smart Brother Nov 2015 #51
Maedhros Nov 2015 #59
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #64
Maedhros Nov 2015 #73
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #32
1939 Nov 2015 #33
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #34
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #35
Smart Brother Nov 2015 #44
Rebkeh Nov 2015 #36
yourout Nov 2015 #37
Smart Brother Nov 2015 #42
Vinca Nov 2015 #39
Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2015 #46
Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #48
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #66
oldandhappy Nov 2015 #52
ViseGrip Nov 2015 #53
Kalidurga Nov 2015 #54
DJ13 Nov 2015 #55
drray23 Nov 2015 #56
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #71
SheilaT Nov 2015 #57
one_voice Nov 2015 #58
BainsBane Nov 2015 #60
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #67
gollygee Nov 2015 #62
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #63
George II Nov 2015 #68
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #69
George II Nov 2015 #70
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #72
George II Nov 2015 #74
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #78
ibegurpard Nov 2015 #75
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #79
TheFarseer Nov 2015 #76
BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #77
moobu2 Nov 2015 #80
KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #81

Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:47 AM

1. I think the republicans in Congress will actively oppose both.

But with the need to manufacture fake scandals to make Hillary Clinton's life hell, they will be too busy to damage the country too much if she becomes President.

The GOP is there for one reason alone and that is to fuck America. The busier they are, the less they'll be able to fuck us up.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:54 AM

3. I agree with your take on the Republicans and wish merely to note that

 

Under the Constitution, legislation originates in the (Republican) House. So should it matter who can work better with that collection of scalawags and demagogues on the behalf of the American people?

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:26 PM

29. I agree

They'll Horrible Be No matter Who wins...either of them are going to Need Us to NOT be like KY and turn Out To VOTE and Turn Congress back to the Dems...even with the RW Dem members....At least it would be doable.
Additionally-
We, the People Must Engage in Our Own Governance Much More!

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:48 AM

2. I think that if compromise is needed then the one more willing to compromise will work better.

The right wants us to give up social programs and we want them to just keep the government functioning. It will take pressure from the "American people" to get Congress to act. Who ever is better at getting the people on their side will be the one more able to work with congress. I don't know the answer to that at this point.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 10:16 AM

9. Thanks for your thoughtful response. This question continues

 

To fascinate me.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:57 AM

4. I don't think its a good question really

A better one is which candidate has more popular and electoral vote potential to drive their programs.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 10:22 AM

10. Hmm - and how do you answer your better question? Not meaning to snark but

 

Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:37 AM - Edit history (3)

rather to develop your idea a little more fully.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 10:34 AM

12. Its open to debate, but that is what the primary is for. nt

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:58 AM

5. Sanders. He knows how to say "NO".

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:59 AM

6. Possibly Sanders

as someone who really knows how to work the House and Senate from within and compromise without losing the values or the core store. And who is not vulnerable, so far, to silly lies the GOP prefers over touching upon real issues. In fact the radioactivity of Sanders openly raising key issues they don't want heard much less discussed is a more potent weapon than anything Hillary can do on most fronts, especially economic.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 10:07 AM

7. They hate Clinton - if you think they've

been nasty to Obama just wait. We saw it the last go-around with Bill. They tried to impeach him & they will start in day one with her.

Should it matter? I don't know that anything will help at this point frankly. Personally I think the ascension of the religious right has so polluted the political landscape that we may have nothing left but revolution. These people are not rational.

But what I would not do is push in a candidate who they already hate. It may be naive to think Bernie has a chance as a democratic socialist, but we know how unbalanced the repugs are when it comes to the Clintons.

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Response to TBF (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:19 PM

26. Not nasty to Obama, COMPLETE SHUTDOWN OF THE UNIVERSE more like it, it CANT get any worse

than vowing to oppose ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he supports.

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Response to TBF (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:29 PM

31. The Hate for HRC (and Bill) has been

palpable for Decades! And didn't I read some headline, somewhere recently that some GOP a$$hole had already started looking at impeaching HRC?

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 10:11 AM

8. Clinton told us that she's proud to call the Republicans 'the enemy'.

 

They won't compromise with her for anything.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 10:31 AM

11. Teabaggers/GOP will only be more effective with INVESTIGATING CLINTON. They have a visceral hatred

Of Hillary and Bill.

Bernie has worked with/negotiated with/gotten legislation passed while working with the GOP.

Definitely Bernie!

Hillary would just bring ENDLESS investigations. GUARANTEED.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:08 AM

13. Bernie has been in Congress for decades longest Indy ever

he would be better qualified to work across the isle. He has done it several times.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:12 AM

14. So what is your friend's case?

I know a lot of her supporters give her huge props for how she handled herself in the recent Benghazi hearing. How it proves she is such a fighter. Which is fine. Does it make her better than Bernie? Does it mean he would have done worse? Somehow I don't see it.

We can somewhat go by is the first debate, where we had Hillary being questioned about the private server. Which Bernie immediately shut down in about 3 sentences. Because he did that, we don't know how she would have answered, but I'm pretty sure she didn't have much problem with how he handled it for her.

Then there's simply the fact that Bernie hasn't been put on trial. For Benghazi, or emails, or slush funds, or Whitewater, or whatever. Maybe it's all garbage. But it's still there on a lot of people's minds. Her level of unfavorability is something we won't agree with, but we can't say it's not there.

For Bernie, what kind of baggage does he bring? Of course they'll attack him for being a Socialist. Just like they did to Gore, Kerry, Obama, and certainly would for Hillary. Sure Bernie at least isn't afraid of the word, and those who pay attention know the difference, but that's not who we're talking about. For those on the other side, they're all socialists. It's automatic. The Dem candidate could be Mickey Mouse, and he'll get the same treatment. So Hillary doesn't get off any easier than Bernie on this one. Logically of course there are huge differences, but that logic doesn't apply here. The good news is, I see it as becoming a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation. The hard right may lap it up, but those in the middle are probably getting tired of it.

And what about political will? If Bernie wins, he brings with him the message that America wants some big changes. Obama did too. Pretty early into his term, a lot of people I know weren't as excited about Obama as expected. They were pointing out how he came in with this huge tidal wave of political capital, and was basically blowing it. Sure we got the ACA, but having read more on this, it's clear we could have gotten A LOT more, in terms of finance regulation, possibly single payer, etc. I don't see Bernie taking an inch, when given a mile.

What will Hillary bring? She said the only difference between her and Obama are her physical characteristics. Which basically means no change. No new political capital. No momentum to improve Congress.

Playing to defend the status quo is never a winning strategy. Starting from the center is starting from a position of weakness. The Repubs might seem like a bunch of clowns, but they know to come from a strong position. Whereas we try to start from nicey-nice. Isn't it about time we grew a pair?

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Response to Bernin4U (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:32 AM

15. Great question. I am on this little tablet right now, which

 

makes typing more difficult and thus places a premium on brevity.

Essentially, my friend's argument is that while Republicans make a great show of public enmity towards her -- red meat for their base, let us say-- privately they like Hillary and can and will work with her.

I am not expert enough on either her or Sanders' tenure to respond to that substantively and am profiting mightily from some of the wonderful responses here on behalf of each candidate (including yours

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 12:51 PM

16. Exactly. A "centrist" is a lose-lose!

Publicly, the right have to go after them with all they've got. Making words like "liberal" the equivalent of a demon spawn. (Never mind the fact that America, by definition, is founded on liberalism.)

Privately, sure they come to agreements, because they're really two sides of the same coin. But what does "working together" mean? If you combine equal parts "republican dark" and "republican lite", where does that leave you? Sure, it's an agreement, but not even close to anywhere I want to be.

So we lose publicly, we lose privately. The show goes on, as it has for decades. The people will always be thrown a bone or two on social issues, but the core stuff, the oligarchy, continues.

As long as we the people remember our place. We must be constantly scared into not stepping out of line.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:26 PM

28. One thing is guaranteed:

 

Any issue on which the Republicans are "willing to work with" Hillary is going to be bad for working Americans and good for the ultra-wealthy and corporate interests.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 12:55 PM

17. If Hillary is anything like Bill (and so far she uses his policy stances quite a bit)...

 

She'll end up caving too much to the GOP demands.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 12:59 PM

18. MARTIN O'MALLEY, Actions not Words.

Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)

He's accomplished these things, working WITH state legislators from both parties, and fighting many fights.

&feature=youtu.be

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Response to elleng (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:42 PM

40. +1. I've had pretty much all day to peruse O'Malleys site. He's done it

 

and very effectively too.

He's not partisan and managed to work effectively across both sides of the aisle.



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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:46 PM

41. +1, rider!

Quoting you: He's done it and very effectively too.

He's not partisan and managed to work effectively across both sides of the aisle.

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Response to elleng (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:51 PM

43. He's not polarizing.

 

Im glad I had time today to look at his info.

I really encourage all DUers to check him out. This race doesn't have to be such a duality. O'Malley is a powerful candidate.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:56 PM

45. Absolutely, he's NOT polarizing!

Duality NOT necessary! Post an OP some time???

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Response to elleng (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:10 PM

49. Exactly. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:11 PM

50. HI, MAN!

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 01:41 PM

19. No one. They will not deal with any President other than their own. nt

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 01:43 PM

20. Hillary has the backing of entire Dem party...

 

And that's half the battle. Bernie may be fighting on both fronts, Dem and Repub.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 10:48 AM

65. That is a valid point you raise and I really appreciate it. Made

 

me remember Carter's single term, where he could never seem to get any respect.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 01:43 PM

21. Sanders hands down

 

He would never throw the middle/lower class to the wolves like Obama did with his idiotic deals with the Republicans.

There is no making deals with psychopaths.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 02:03 PM

22. I don't know about Congress.

I just know that post after post on my Facebook feed, with comments from Dems and independents here in Alaska, are supporting Bernie over Hillary. Of course, that's just my friends and friends of friends, so not scientific, and I suspect that Bravenak's feed, for instance, looks different than mine. I can only speak on my personal observations.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 06:52 PM

23. Based on record (and Republicans themselves), no doubt it's Bernie Sanders

 

Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)

As Mayor of Burlington, Bernie Sanders got a lot done with Republicans in the City Council, winning over the respect of many Republicans.

Bailey, a banker’s son, disagreed with some of what the wild-haired mayor said, but on the bigger issues, like keeping property taxes down, they saw eye to eye. To the fury of his Republican colleagues, Bailey began to vote with the mayor.

“Other people just could not look beyond that socialist shtick of his. I just never took it seriously,” said Bailey, who later became the chairman of the board. “The truth is, he was a very decent mayor. It is a nitty-gritty job of day-by-day executive decisions and he did it well. He got things done.”...

...Sanders, the unyielding ideologue, who once read Fidel Castro’s biography during a crucial meeting in City Hall, turned out to be a pragmatic and efficient administrator, one so fiscally conservative that some Republicans say he managed to “out-Republican the Republicans.” He just did it his way.

As Vermont official, Sanders ‘got things done’


During the Gingrich years, he got more amendments through Congress than any other Congressman, earning him the nickname, "The Amendment King."

Amendments occupy a great deal of most legislators' time, particularly those lawmakers in the minority. Members of Congress do author major bills, but more commonly they make minor adjustments to the bigger bill. Rather than write their own anti-terrorism bill, for instance, lawmakers will try to amend the Patriot Act, either by creating a new clause in the law or expanding or limiting some existing provisions. The bill that ultimately becomes law is an aggregate of the original lagislation and all the different congresspersons along the way.

Sanders is the amendment king of the current House of Representative. Since the Republicans took over Congress in 1995, no other lawmaker – not Tom DeLay, not Nancy Pelosi – has passed more roll-call amendments (amendments that actually went to a vote on the floor) than Bernie Sanders. He accomplishes this on the one hand by being relentlessly active, and on the other by using his status as an Independent to form left-right coalitions.

Inside the Horror Show That Is Congress


John McCain praised him for his work as Chairman of the Veterans Committee, at a time when Sanders worked with McCain to pass a comprehensive VA healthcare bill.

Sen. John Mc­Cain, who ne­go­ti­ated the VA deal with Sanders after Sen. Richard Burr, then the rank­ing mem­ber on the Vet­er­ans Com­mit­tee, said he couldn’t get any fur­ther in the ne­go­ti­ations with Sanders, gave the in­de­pend­ent high praise, not­ing that “his word is good.”

But he ac­know­ledged that Sanders can be can­tan­ker­ous, adding with a laugh: “Both of us have that repu­ta­tion.”

“We worked very, um — with a lot of con­ten­tion and a lot of spir­ited de­bate. We were able to come to an agree­ment be­cause both of us wanted an agree­ment. And I found him to be hon­or­able and good as his word. And his word was good. So I found it a very sat­is­fact­ory and some­times, shall I say, col­or­ful ex­per­i­ence,” Mc­Cain said.

Bernie Sanders Is a Loud, Stubborn Socialist. Republicans Like Him Anyway


Just today Marco Rubio shocked many by defending Bernie Sanders.

The questioner took his point, but asked him if he ever wants to tell Sanders that he's going too far.

Rubio disagreed, saying that while he's not a supporter of socialism, he praises Sanders for speaking his mind.

"What I appreciate about Bernie is he's not trying to shirk from it," Rubio said. "It's what he believes in. He's honest about it."...

..."I don't think it works for America," Rubio said. "My argument is, you want to live in a country like that -- there's like dozens of countries around the world that are socialist -- move there. We should continue to be America."

But the beauty of democracy, Rubio added, is that the debate can happen.

"I don't personally have a problem with Bernie because he's being honest about what he believes in. I'd love to have that debate," Rubio said.

Marco Rubio sticks up for Bernie Sanders


The #1 reason Bernie Sanders could cross the aisle and get things done better than Clinton, other than the fact that he's much more pragmatic than most think, is because, unlike Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, Sanders would not start from a position of compromise having already ceded ground and moved right before the negotiations even begin. He'd start from what he believes in which will be far to the left of the Republicans.

Obama (and likely Clinton) always started from where the Republicans had historically been, which forced the GOP to move even further to the right, one, because they had to in order to look like opposition for their constituents by having a view that he hadn't, in their view, "co-opted", and two, because since he'd already ceded ground, they wanted to see how much more he'd give in on.

Sanders on the other hand, an actual principled Progressive, always starts far to the left of the Republicans, which allows the GOP to start at their traditional positions, and then when they compromise, they end up at a reasonable position, and government can actually work like it's supposed to, unlike what we've seen the last almost seven years. In the end, just like back in Burlington, the Republicans end up respecting him more for it than they do Obama's (and what we all know would be Clinton's) approach, because Bernie Sanders is playing fair and trying to get things done, instead of just playing politics.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:11 PM

24. Define "more effective"

As measured by quantity or quality?
Trading off what programs and what principles?
They each have pluses and minuses but one may be less wiling to compromise on things like raising the retirement age or privatizing social security. Corporate solutions might be favored by Hillary to address social or economic problems.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:02 PM

47. Good point.

I don't want a President who will be 'effective' at passing Republican legislation.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 09:28 AM

61. good point you raise about defining terms. I suppose compromise is the

 

Process by which policies are implemented in a representative democracy, such as ours. So who would be better at forging the compromises necessary to keep our republic functioning?

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:16 PM

25. If Bernie is elected the political dynamic in Congress will be much positively affected

as a result, he will have long and strong coat tails.

His message and political positions are crystal clear and unmistakable, not using a super pac and still winning the race will only serve to bolden the writing on the wall for any opposition.

Thanks for the thread, KingCharlemagne.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:21 PM

27. It's not the Republicans who will buck Sanders

 

It's the Democrats, angry that an independent wiggled his way into the white house without their approval.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:27 PM

30. I think a a better question is: Which candidate will be better WORKING AGAINST the Republicans?

 

Obama shows what WORKING WITH the Republicans gets you.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:38 PM

38. ^^^This^^^

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:15 PM

51. Correction: Obama tried to occupy the ground the Republicans were supposed to be standing on.

 

For example, when you start with RomneyCare/HeritageCare instead of single payer, it may be good politics, but it's terrible governance. What you've done is taken away from the Republicans what they likely would've put on the table before seeing if they would. The GOP would've boasted about how great Romneycare was had Obama proposed single payer, and the compromise would've ended up being RomneyCare + a public option = "Obamacare."

Every honest person knows Obama did it the way he did because he wanted insurance company money for the Democrats, and proposing single payer would've ended that possibility.

You want to know why no Republican voted for RomneyCare/HeritageCare/Obamacare? Because they weren't allowed to put it on the table.

If someone's view is, as some in this thread have, that it's more important that Democratic President Obama "beats the Republicans" than it is that we end up with a public option in the final bill, then it shouldn't shock any of you when many Bernie Sanders supporters say it's "Bernie or Bust" because they don't care about the cheerleading.

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Response to Smart Brother (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 02:20 AM

59. The ACA was designed to be a political football, the primary purpose of which

 

was to count coup against the Republicans for having passed it.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 10:42 AM

64. I readily take your point. our system is premised on compromise. When

 

Compromise fails, we are left with either civil war or anarchy.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 12:44 PM

73. Our system is broken.

 

Republicans don't compromise, therefore Democrats capitulate.

It's better when the Democrats fight.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:29 PM

32. Cllinton worked with both Republicans and Democrats in her time as a Senator, she has an agenda and

will work with Congress to get important issues passed, she has a good plan, has plans to pay for her agenda and most of all Congress understands having programs paid for before passing the programs. The republicans will not buy into programs in which will run up the debt, won't happen.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:32 PM

33. Only Nixon could go to China

I believe that Bernie can work with them and get compromise legislative deals done. He would be bullet proof from the left on what he could offer.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:34 PM

34. Answer: neither.

It's like asking who would better be able to win the indy 500 driving a rusted pickup truck sitting on cinder blocks.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:34 PM

35. Clinton....

 

No doubt about it.....she has dealt with and beaten them her entire career

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:55 PM

44. Wishful thinking appears to be the norm for many around here

 

The question was who would be "more effective." Everyone has "dealt with" the Republicans. The difference is, when Sanders has "dealt with" them, the veterans and the people of Burlington and the United States ended up being the winners. Who cares about Hillary Clinton winning some personal squabble that helps nothing but her "cred" with her fanbase, which based on your post is a completely legitimate characterization?

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:36 PM

36. To answer your questions:


1. Who would work better with a Republican Congress?

2. Does such a concern matter in deciding whom to support?

3. Should it matter?

4. Why or why not?


------

1. I care more about strategy than tactics (see answer #4) so this question is not relevant to me.

2. No. Not during primary season. Possibly yes during the general.

3. No. Not during the primary season.

4. See this must read from Geenius at Wrok over at Daily Kos. [link:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/04/1444534/-How-Do-We-Win-We-Begin-With-the-End-in-Mind|

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:37 PM

37. This one is easy....Clinton by a mile. And most of it would not be good.

Bernie has nothing that a Republican Congress would be interested in passing.

I am sure there a few things Hillary could find common ground with them on.

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Response to yourout (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:46 PM

42. Reality proves you wrong.

 

#23

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:40 PM

39. Neither and if Clinton is elected she won't have time to work with Congress.

They'll be busy 24/7 investigating everything and anything in hopes they can impeach her for leaving a stray toenail clipping on the White House bathroom floor. The only way Congress will work with anyone is if the Republican gerrymandered districts are destroyed after the next census.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:01 PM

46. Bernie

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:07 PM

48. A Republican Congress will not cooperate with a Democratic President

Clinton will have no illusisions. They are already talking about impeaching her. She has shown that she is tough and won't backdown.

Sanders has touted his ability to work Republicans. Obama spent years trying to work with them and has been criticized on this site for negotiating. Sanders agenda consists of programs Congress must enact and no Republican will ever vote for. It will be a constant fight to do anything but Sanders is focused won't give an inch.

It's a toss up.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 10:55 AM

66. While I think my question is important, I think your

 

Assessment -- that it is a toss-up -- is both accurate and maybe the best answer we can expect. More's the pity.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:16 PM

52. Not having a Repub congress would be effective.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:19 PM

53. Bernie has more legislative experience.

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:31 PM

54. Bernie

But, not because he would be able to actually work with Republicans. Bernie will be able to get people to actually make phone calls and put some pressure on other elected officials. It's like he says this isn't about him it's about us.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:46 PM

55. Working "with" a party that refuses any compromise means that Hillary

will gladly work towards conservative goals with the Congressional GOP to get bills passed.

Theres no other way to read her statement.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:04 PM

56. hillary would be more able to compromise

but if the gop is dead set on obstructing her like they did president Obama she will be stuck.

The thing one should really hope for us the coattail effect. Who can best deliver congress or at least senate on the eve of the presidential elections ? If Bernie can do that he would be able to push his mote progressive agenda through. If not he is even less likely to be able to get anything done.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:22 AM

71. yeah, it seems as if my post is generating some interesting

 

Spin-offs,bin this case which candidate would have longer coat tails.

I actually think Sanders might have the edge on Clinton in this regard, aktho this is pure sentiment on m part , supported by niter data nor analysis.

Tanks for raising the issue!

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:03 PM

57. Sanders has been in Congress since 1991

 

and has been working with both Democrats and Republicans for all that time.

Hillary may have been First Lady for eight years, but that did not involve working with Congress. She was a Senator for all of six years, the last two of which she spent running for President. I have not noticed any of her supporters happily listing all of the major legislation she sponsored, so I'm guessing her record might be a bit thin on that account.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:14 PM

58. Neither.

They hate Clinton. And every time Sanders opened his mouth they'd scream socialist. More than they called Obama a socialist marxist commie.

O'Malley is the answer.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 02:28 AM

60. To be effective with congress, one needs to start with the Democrats

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Working with Republicans is going to be a challenge for any president, but it has to start with a good relationship with one's own party. On that question there is no comparison. Clinton has made it clear to House and Senate Democrats that she will work closely with them and will value their input.

Clinton also has more experience than most battling with the GOP and coming out on top, as we saw in the Benghazi hearings, where she made them look like fools.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:00 AM

67. A truly awesome analysis -- much appreciated - nt

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 09:30 AM

62. They'll be horrible with either Sanders or Clinton

Just as they've been horrible with Obama.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 10:39 AM

63. Agreed. These are dark days for the republic, but maybe not quite as dark as 1858-59. - nt

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:02 AM

68. I can't really say, but obviously Sanders hasn't been very effective with his Democratic peers...

...in the Senate.

36 of the 42 current Democratic Senators have endorsed Clinton, 0 have endorsed Sanders.

If he can't be very effective with Democrats, how can we think he'd be effective with republicans?

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Response to George II (Reply #68)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:08 AM

69. I honestly am unsure what value endorsements have. I think it is

 

largely symbolic in our system. Still, symbols have meaning and you and JaneyVee have raised this issue from slightly different angles and it definitely has merit!

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:13 AM

70. But since they're in Congress now (and there are roughly 130 Democratic Representatives...

...that have endorsed Clinton to 2 for Sanders) it signals their preference for the candidate they would be better able to work with.

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Response to George II (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 11:23 AM

72. Or whom they handicap as the probable winner :) - nt

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #72)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 01:35 PM

74. The bottom line is that roughly 150 current members of the House/Senate......

.....are supporting Hillary Clinton's candidacy vs. only two for Sanders' candidacy.

A President doesn't lead the country alone, he/she needs the support of Congress. Clinton has demonstrated that she can get that support, Sanders hasn't.

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Response to George II (Reply #74)

Fri Nov 6, 2015, 08:35 AM

78. Well put. It will remain for voters, if they so choose, to

 

Vote no confidence in the party leadership by repudiating the large disparity in endorsements.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 01:47 PM

75. Not a factor

Anyone with a brain ought to see that with the current state of the Republican Party there's next to nothing they w can be worked with on. Better to have a president free and willing to stand up for traditional Democratic policies.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 6, 2015, 08:40 AM

79. You do admit, I trust, that there will be 4, and probably 8

 

Years, where nothing substantive gets done when said President 'stands up for traditional Democratic values'?

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 01:52 PM

76. Clinton will be super effective

At passing giveaways to banks, insurance companies and arms manufacturers.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2015, 02:08 PM

77. Excellent questions!

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Original post)

Fri Nov 6, 2015, 08:41 AM

80. They would just laugh their asses off if Bernie were to somehow get himself elected

I doubt Bernie could even get his cabinet appointees confirmed much less and judges or anything else on his agenda approved. If Bernie was to get elected I think it would set the Democratic Party and the federal courts back at least a generation. It'd be a disaster. Thankfully we won't have to worry about that.

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Response to moobu2 (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 6, 2015, 08:49 AM

81. And what do you foresee from that pack of scalawags, charlatans and demagogues, should

 

Hillary be inaugurated come Jan., 2017?

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