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Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:26 PM

 

The Rise Of Bernie Sanders And The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists




The Third Way Instructing Democrats........


On Wednesday morning, the think tank Third Way held a briefing in which it warned candidates that they risked personal and broadly shared electoral harm if they echoed Sanders' populist message.

"You would be back to 1972 [if Bernie were nominated]," warned Bill Daley, President Barack Obama's former chief of staff and a Third Way board member, referencing the blowout Richard Nixon win that year. "It was not a happy time for Democrats. The guy has been a socialist his whole life and now decides he is a Democrat and therefore the Democratic Party has got to move to that extreme? I think it is a recipe for disaster."

The rise of Sanders, though unanticipated, has exposed familiar ideological fissures within the Democratic Party. Virtually every modern presidential election has pitted an insurgent candidate with populist appeal against a more centrist-minded or establishment alternative. Bill Clinton's win in 1992 ushered in a generation of modern, more moderate New Democrats. And when Clinton left office, several of his former staffers started up Third Way to discourage the party from reverting to its leftward ways. During the Obama era, the group issued similar warnings about the rise of Democratic populism and played consequential policy roles -- most memorably encouraging lawmakers to abandon the pursuit of a public option during the crafting of health care reform in 2010. On the eve of a post-Obama America, Third Way's role appears more defensive or, at least, complicated by the few candidates running for the White House. Far from cheerleading Hillary Clinton's presidential candidacy, it warned her not to mimic her nearest competitor.



~snip~

Though officials at Third Way warned about potential missteps Democrats might make at the presidential level, much of the hour-long briefing on Wednesday was spent arguing that the party's success in such elections has masked fundamental problems elsewhere. And on a purely numerical level, the math is indisputable. As Jonathan Cowan, Third Way's president, noted, Democrats hold the fewest offices in Congress, statehouses and governors' mansions since 1928. The factors behind this, however, are deeply disputed. In its presentation, Third Way argued that a focus on issues like a $15 minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits and advocating for single-payer health care all create the political dynamics that make Democrats electorally vulnerable. But few Democrats have run on this platform in past races. During the disastrous 2014 midterm elections, a number of senators called for expanding Social Security benefits. But talk of single-payer health care was nonexistent outside highly progressive (and largely dismissed) quarters. And the debate at the time was about raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, not $15. Third Way itself calls for a wage floor of $10-$12, based on average hourly wages and regional cost variations.

Third Way's platform calls for passage of free trade deals like the Trans Pacific Partnership, making the research and development tax credit permanent and revenue-neutral corporate tax reform. The group advocates for raising tax rates on capital gains from 20 to 25 percent and for limiting deductions for high wage earners. But on the whole, it is the more corporate-minded plank of the Democratic platform, much to the distaste of its critics.

"They do nothing to challenge corporate power in the workplace, other than a higher minimum wage," said Larry Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute, a Third Way adversary. "If they don’t get behind policies that will really help generate middle class wage and compensation growth then they’re missing an essential piece of what’s needed, economically and politically."

Michael Briggs, Sanders' top spokesman, was a touch more sardonic. "Did Mr. Daley have anything to say about all of the American factories that closed or the millions of American jobs that were lost because he pushed NAFTA through Congress?" he asked.



cont'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/third-way-presidential-campaign_563237f2e4b0c66bae5b4066

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Reply The Rise Of Bernie Sanders And The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists (Original post)
Segami Oct 2015 OP
bravenak Oct 2015 #1
AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #3
bravenak Oct 2015 #5
AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #6
bravenak Oct 2015 #8
jeff47 Oct 2015 #24
bravenak Oct 2015 #27
jeff47 Oct 2015 #36
bravenak Oct 2015 #38
jeff47 Oct 2015 #40
bravenak Oct 2015 #43
arikara Oct 2015 #234
R B Garr Oct 2015 #42
bravenak Oct 2015 #45
cui bono Oct 2015 #164
bravenak Oct 2015 #165
cui bono Oct 2015 #170
cui bono Oct 2015 #163
bravenak Oct 2015 #166
cui bono Oct 2015 #175
bravenak Oct 2015 #180
cui bono Oct 2015 #188
bravenak Oct 2015 #168
cui bono Oct 2015 #171
bravenak Oct 2015 #178
cui bono Oct 2015 #187
jfern Oct 2015 #177
bravenak Oct 2015 #179
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #13
bravenak Oct 2015 #14
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #16
bravenak Oct 2015 #19
frylock Oct 2015 #26
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #29
frylock Oct 2015 #32
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #35
frylock Oct 2015 #41
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #46
frylock Oct 2015 #54
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #59
frylock Oct 2015 #63
BeanMusical Oct 2015 #98
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #127
grasswire Oct 2015 #137
Segami Oct 2015 #139
kenfrequed Oct 2015 #7
bravenak Oct 2015 #11
Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #25
bravenak Oct 2015 #30
Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #99
bravenak Oct 2015 #100
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bravenak Oct 2015 #31
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bravenak Oct 2015 #67
cprise Oct 2015 #113
bravenak Oct 2015 #120
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Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #114
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kenfrequed Oct 2015 #135
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cascadiance Oct 2015 #151
McKim Oct 2015 #102
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bravenak Oct 2015 #226
Live and Learn Oct 2015 #227
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Live and Learn Oct 2015 #237
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Live and Learn Oct 2015 #240
Armstead Oct 2015 #2
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rhett o rick Oct 2015 #20
kenfrequed Oct 2015 #76
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NCTraveler Oct 2015 #10
tex-wyo-dem Oct 2015 #64
RichVRichV Oct 2015 #80
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frylock Oct 2015 #189
StrongBad Oct 2015 #15
WillyT Oct 2015 #17
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LineLineLineReply !
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polichick Oct 2015 #66
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azmom Oct 2015 #70
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AzDar Oct 2015 #73
passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #75
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passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #167
malokvale77 Oct 2015 #172
passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #173
malokvale77 Oct 2015 #184
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NuclearDem Oct 2015 #176
frylock Oct 2015 #191
Bryce Butler Oct 2015 #82
Segami Oct 2015 #85
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DownriverDem Oct 2015 #86
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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:26 PM

1. I see Third Way Progressives panicking.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:32 PM

3. You see something you made up panicking?

 

Do you see it in your crystal ball?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:34 PM

5. Look at how they race to stop people from saying things they do not like. It's funny.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:35 PM

6. When people panic

 

Do they make things up?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:39 PM

8. They harass BLM. And the AA group. Stuff like that happens sometimes.

 

They can never let a slight pass unnoticed. They pretend BLM endored their candidate. They start yelling race card and gender card.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:58 PM

24. And sometimes they say lovely things about DUers on other websites

Then pretend that didn't happen when their DU timeout expires.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:04 PM

27. Like what? Give me an example.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:19 PM

36. Why would I need to? You can't find any? (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:20 PM

38. Why should I? I don't work for you.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #38)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:23 PM

40. So when you asked me to find them, you thought I worked for you? (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #40)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:25 PM

43. I Assumed you had them since you came to discuss them with me.

 

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #36)


Response to bravenak (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:25 PM

42. +1 They also harass undecideds here, one of

them just recently in a current thread, by ridiculing and challenging them, even common sense observations. Its unreal.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:26 PM

45. One cannot even be polite and respectful without getting slammed anymore.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #45)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:45 PM

164. When have you tried that?

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Response to cui bono (Reply #164)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:47 PM

165. YOU asking ME that?!?!?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #165)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:54 PM

170. Is that an example of it?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:44 PM

163. Sometimes someone who complains about racism posts articles written by a racist

just because it says something against someone towards whom that person has an irrational hatred. In other words, they're not worried about racism so much if they have a political point they want to score.


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Response to cui bono (Reply #163)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:50 PM

166. And sometime people watch their group harass BLM and the AA group and ignore it.

 

Then they go act like the AA people are making things up. They play pretend and are terribly nasty to many AA members who post in the AA group.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #166)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:12 PM

175. And sometimes the AA group allows its group to be used to smear a particular candidate

and professes to speak for all PoC as if they are a monolith and even bans or ostracizes or name calls those PoC who don't agree with the vocal AA Hillary supporters.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #175)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:40 PM

180. Yes. Us AAs always allow ourselves to be used. No minds of our own. No agency.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #180)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 11:21 PM

188. Yes, please, keep putting words in my mouth. The hosts have minds of their own.

They just choose to not be objective and to let OPs that are nothing but smears of Sanders and his supporters to stand.

Again, being black doesn't make you immune to criticism of how you behave as a human being.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #163)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:51 PM

168. Btw. I got that link here. Lol. From one of your buddy's ops.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #168)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:56 PM

171. Not that I believe you, but that absolves you? You posted an article written by a racist.

That same racist said a lot of racist things about Obama yet you deem it worthy to post her hate filled rant about Bernie.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #171)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:39 PM

178. Uh huh. Yes. School me on real racism

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #178)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 11:18 PM

187. Not what I'm doing. Just pointing that you use a racist's opinion when it suits you.

Being black doesn't make you immune to criticism as a human being.

If I posted a vile sexist's hit piece on Clinton while ranting about women's rights and how women are being attacked on DU I would sure as hell expect to be called out for it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:29 PM

177. If black lives matter, why can't we have a BLM debate?

BLM asked for a debate, but Hillary's biggest supporter, DWS said no more debates.

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Response to jfern (Reply #177)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:39 PM

179. I am not DWS. You must ask DWS.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:42 PM

13. They don't see it.

 

They think using McCain and his thoughts to support their candidate isn't panicking. They truly don't think questioning if LGBQT and AA are suffering from Stockholm is panicking.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:43 PM

14. It is crazy to me.

 

I keep thinking they will figure it out soon. No. They can't.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:46 PM

16. They have been going way out there. They think "Turd Way"....

 

is brilliant political discourse. The only thing keeping a small group of them around at all at this point is a few Clinton supporters who's confidence has turned to arrogance.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:51 PM

19. I think the arrogance is a reaction and hides the anger, myself.

 

After months of turd way, corporatist, blah blah blah, people are just done dealing with it.

I think I cannot wait until this is over.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:03 PM

26. Remember when Hillary and McCain teamed up to attack Obama?

Do you remember that? Hmmmnnn?? Sure you do!

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Response to frylock (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:06 PM

29. Is this what you are talking about?

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251737393

I kicked it to put it at the top of the board in case the link doesn't work for you.

How about the brilliance of "Turd Way." I remember some in grade school always laughed at the word "Turd."

I will say the image itself in the op makes me feel all warm and fuzzy if your remove the grade school banter.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #29)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:12 PM

32. Yeah... no. You know exactly what I was talking about.

McCain ad returns to Clinton's 3 a.m. phone call

PHOENIX — If you think you've heard this line of attack before, there's a reason.

Republican John McCain's latest TV spot is playing off Hillary Rodham Clinton's best-known ad against Barack Obama to heighten any concerns that Obama isn't ready to take a 3 a.m. phone call that could signal a crisis demanding judgment and experience.

The McCain ad debuted Tuesday, just hours before Clinton was to address the Democratic National Convention in Denver. While she was expected to repeat her post-primary support for Obama's candidacy in an effort to bring her supporters to his side, McCain's campaign didn't want voters to forget that she had once considered McCain to be more experienced.

Opening with a scene lifted from Clinton's old ad, the McCain spot then switches to scenes of war, missiles and hooded gunmen as an announcer says: "Uncertainty. Dangerous aggression. Rogue nations. Radicalism." Clinton herself is shown saying: "I know Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

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Response to frylock (Reply #32)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:19 PM

35. I don't see a link where a duer used McCain to go after Clinton.

 

You link doesn't flow in any way nor does it back up your comments.

Are you talking about this one that has been discussed in the conversation you have gotten into right here? I will kick it as well in case the link doesn't work for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251687330

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:23 PM

41. What does DU have to do with anything?

Clinton and McCain TEAMED UP to go after Obama.

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Response to frylock (Reply #41)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:26 PM

46. I love this.

 

"What does DU have to do with anything?"

You didn't even read the comment you originally replied to. Just jumped in to start a fight.

And you said you had a link where Clinton teamed up with McCain to attack Obama. The link you provided doesn't show that at all. That was either very dishonest of you or you used the wrong link.

Have a good day.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #46)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:46 PM

54. Do you not remember the "3 am" bullshit?

Really?!

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Response to frylock (Reply #54)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:52 PM

59. This is very strange what you are doing.

 

You claim Clinton worked with McCain and your link doesn't back it up. You then move the goal posts in a manner that no matter how I answer still won't back up your patently false claim. You ask what it has to du showing that you clearly didn't even read the initial post you responded to.

Have fun at whatever you are doing. It was funny for a minute.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #59)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:57 PM

63. What's funny is you denying the "3 am" nonsense.

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Response to frylock (Reply #63)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:56 PM

98. +1

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Response to frylock (Reply #63)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:32 PM

127. They act just like their candidate, frylock.

Ignore, triangulate and prevaricate.

Soon, they'll start co-opting your statements as their own.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #127)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:04 PM

137. +++ nt

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #127)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:07 PM

139. +1000

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:37 PM

7. uhm...

Third way Democrats really aren't progressives. They sort of have a different agenda with regards to energy, the ecnomy, education, and a number of other issues. They are considerably more economically conservative and Hillary was one of the founding members of the organization.

They tend to see her adopting some of Bernie's language as something they do not like. I don't think she will lead as progressively as Sanders would, or even for that matter President Obama has. In some ways, the Third Way speaking out as a seperate entity seems to be creating an illusion of a "right flank" to Hillary which is odd because she really has been with that organization the whole time. I don't think Hillary is going to stick to what she has said on a number of economic issues during and before the debate as she has already drifted back to stating she would support some kind of TPP.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:41 PM

11. Third Way Progressive is a term I defined.

 

It is not the same thing as third way democrats. It is about people who ignore social and gender equality in favor of economic equality but pay lip service to those things. If it does not apply, people should disregard it as it has nothing to do with them. I noticed it this summer. It fits.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:03 PM

25. It's something you made up and this is the kind of bullshit I promised I would call you out on.

Seriously Brave can we just not have a bullshit discussion and have logical "common sense" arguments to support Hillary?

Making up bullshit labels to stick on people isn't fair nor right and you being AA should know that better than anyone.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:10 PM

30. If you do not like it, address it. I can define a term if I please. Language is made to be added to

 

as needed. We have more words every year.

Why should I especially know being an aa? Does being aa protect me from harassment or just add to my burdens of what I need to do? Why do you not need to know as well as I? I hated when Gaza happened and people kept saying stuff about how the Israeli's should know this or that because they are Jews mostly. Pissed me off but I was quiet on that. Next time, I'm gonna go all out on that. It's a bullshit tactic trying to put extra burdens on one group that the other doesn't have to bear. You should know better after what hapoened this summer than to chide me on behaivior unless you set tripped on the group targeting blm and other aa's. Do we not deserve fair treatment and this whatever you are giving me, in our defense?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #30)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:57 PM

99. I don't like it. It's a negative label. Do you like negative labels?

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #99)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:58 PM

100. I sure get them. Race baiter, race nagger, racist. All here. Many times.

 

Did you jump in for me then?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #100)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:05 PM

104. I didn't read those threads. Additionally I doubt you need my protection and I will say this.

You are obviously very intelligent and have the gift of writing. You dont need me to defend you but if I see an instance of derogatory labelling against you on something new I will try to speak out.

Also I think we had some nice posts to each other and I dont want to sully the spirit of those. So I do wish you well even though I may be your political adversary here for now.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #104)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:08 PM

108. Okay. Just think about how it looks from my end when folks correct me on polite language but ignore

 

nasty stuff from their side aimed at me. Just think. Not trying to abuse you just show you my pov. And it would have been nice to have you around at that time helping out. Not for me, because you are right, I can handle it. But others were run off the board and I now only see their Facebooks.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:32 PM

48. you do realize that this response is offensive, right?

Being AA does not make anyone more or less likely to know anything. Save your scolding for children who do not finish their peas. Oh and just so you know-people are entitled to their opinion and they can express it in a label if they want to. Who appointed you the arbiter of definition?

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Response to luvspeas (Reply #48)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:29 PM

77. Thank you. Was trying to think of a way to express

What you just expressed, and you did it nice and concisely.

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Response to luvspeas (Reply #48)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:55 PM

97. If you dont think the AA community hasnt been unfairly labelled in a variety

Of ways for centuries in order to oppress them and thus should be particularly aware of the nefarious power of labels then you haven't studied history.

But yeah anyone with a brain AA or not should be on equal footing to say unfairly and derogatively labelling people in the way Bravenak has with this "Third Way Progressive" BS is wrong and a form of using language to oppress other people's points of view.

It's a label. It has a negative connotation. And it's used in a way that detracts from other on DU rahter than builds.

Stop it.

Or in Hillary's words: Cut it out!

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #97)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:59 PM

101. Where were you when people were calling me racist and race baiter and race nagger?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #101)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:07 PM

107. see above

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #107)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:09 PM

111. I did, thanks.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #101)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:12 PM

112. Right by your side friend...

Who do you think outed the "nagee"?. Was also on time out right before you. I got this.

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Response to luvspeas (Reply #112)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:17 PM

116. Yep. I remember.

 

They alerted you to death for that.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #116)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:27 PM

122. Badge of pride...

There are good folks here. They need your voice.

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Response to luvspeas (Reply #122)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:28 PM

124. I wore it as a badge of honor too.

 

They will honor me again I am sure.

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Response to luvspeas (Reply #48)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:06 PM

106. Thank you. If I had said what I wanted in response to that foolishness, it would be 7-0 hide

"being AA you should know better"

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Response to luvspeas (Reply #48)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:52 PM

169. omg... so we're just allowed to change definitions now? Why, because the person who is making up bs

is from an oppressed group?

Reality is still reality. Facts are still facts. The Third Way is a real thing. One doesn't just get to make shit up about that, shit that makes absolutely no sense what so ever, and not get called on it. This is not based on opinion, this is about something that actually exists and contorted in an attempt to tack it on to progressives when it just doesn't apply. It's utter nonsense.

And while you're so busy trying to defend people giving their "opinions" you are trying to silence the one with which you don't agree. Hm...

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Response to bravenak (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:22 PM

74. I know of no one that fits that definition.

I'm sorry, but everyone I know of puts economic equality alongside social equality. To me, trying to parse them is a false-choice narrative. I am for all of that, I would just say that economic progressivism has been shunted aside for about twenty or thirty years in the democratic party.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #74)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:54 PM

95. I see them.

 

The one who when I said I should not get crusts while they get pie, that told me 'the crusts are the best part!' To convince me to be satisfied with a smaller share than they get? That was one.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #95)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:40 PM

131. Well you only have my word I suppose

I don't know any of my progressive friends that feel that way and I have never heard anyone say anything like that before.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #131)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:45 PM

133. I think if you see it now you'll notice.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:39 PM

83. Speaking of TW fabrication, this doozy about 2014 midterms....

Though officials at Third Way warned about potential missteps Democrats might make at the presidential level, much of the hour-long briefing on Wednesday was spent arguing that the party's success in such elections has masked fundamental problems elsewhere. And on a purely numerical level, the math is indisputable. As Jonathan Cowan, Third Way's president, noted, Democrats hold the fewest offices in Congress, statehouses and governors' mansions since 1928.

The factors behind this, however, are deeply disputed.

In its presentation, Third Way argued that a focus on issues like a $15 minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits and advocating for single-payer health care all create the political dynamics that make Democrats electorally vulnerable. But few Democrats have made their campaigns squarely about these three issues in past races. During the disastrous 2014 midterm elections, a number of senators called for expanding Social Security benefits. But talk of single-payer health care was nonexistent outside highly progressive (and largely dismissed) quarters. And the debate at the time was about raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, not $15. Third Way itself calls for a wage floor of $10-$12, based on average hourly wages and regional cost variations.


They are trying to smear progressives for the failure of their own platform and their inarticulate stuffed shirt candidates.

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Response to cprise (Reply #83)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:53 PM

94. I have no idea what this has to do with me defining a term.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #94)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:33 PM

128. You coin a phrase that Third Way demonstrates is an oxymoron.

Which it is.

A politician who refuses to address structural problems is the antithesis of "progressive". There is no lasting progress unless the legal and business environment is re-structured to favor average citizens.

Hillary won't even dare to use a quintessentially capitalist tool (antitrust) even while calling banks "too big to fail" herself. She wants to apply a box of "oversight" bandaids (ie. more corruption) to a structural issue that calls for banks to be split up into smaller entities and their speculative business separated from the rest.

You cannot "reform" a mixture of Savings-and-Load and market speculation in the same business because the incentives for double-dealing against the public are overwhelming.

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Response to cprise (Reply #128)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:40 PM

132. Not everything is about breaking up the banks and market speculation.

 

That is exactly what I mean. They laser focus on that so much that you cannot even discuss social justice. They just yell oligarchy. They oligarchy did not invent racism, they used it and the people were and are more than willing to accept what they see as their due. They will not diciss it social justice because to them, everything is based around money.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #132)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:55 PM

145. Not everything is about finance, but they can now effortlessly dominate *any* issue

for reasons that are well established.

Our world has, in fact, been re-structured around money and there is now nothing that isn't considered fair game as a profit scheme, from water systems to police forces and prisons. You're not going to see much discussion about race or any other issue without reference to the extreme version of capitalism we've been saddled with.

So I'd ask you to consider to what extent the violence and repression against blacks is driven by big business. Your earlier unfair assessment of Sanders (having to be publicly shamed to act on race?) suggests to me that consideration is lacking.

Also, my understanding of racist themes (and "race" itself) is as a pseudo-scientific idea from the 1800s used to justify slavery and discrimination. Many scholars consider explicit racism a capitalist invention, and MLK himself saw economics intrinsically tied to racial justice (he thought democratic socialism may be a necessary prerequisite for racial justice; I have no doubt MLK influenced Sanders directly).

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Response to cprise (Reply #145)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:26 PM

149. That is because you got more of your experience of racism from books than from experience.

 

You really do have to live it to understand it. Yes. The 'oligarchy' takes advantage of it but they are merely taking advantage of human nature and the inherent tendencies of mankind. Your academic- market-economic based explanation does not address it from our point of view. It feels like a rationalization and a justification for individuals to blame a mysterious force for forcing people into behaiviours that they would have anyway. To blame the rich for things a poor man does to another poor man feels empty and phony. The worst thing to ever be was a slave of a poor white man. To live in a Jim Crow area where you do slightly better than a poor white farmer nearby. They would poison your cows. The day to day aspects are not addressed. Some say the oligarchy is oppressing blacks through the police force to protect themselves, but really it was to oppress us for ALL white folks to be above us. So if the rich is the poor white mans oligarchy then the poor white man along with all others are the black man's oligarchy, once we help you fight them, we still gotta fight YOU for equality if you chose to ignore it and just blame the rich.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #149)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:09 PM

174. "a slave of a poor white man" - I believe it!

The first half of that statement, however, reeks of anti-intellectualism (against black intellectuals especially).

Capitalism is a system (not just a bunch of rich people) with a mindset that permeates our society - top to bottom. It profits by exacerbating our worst tendencies. When people always feel an overwhelming need to compete, they will first choose obvious targets (people who look different) for their fraud, aggression and dirty tricks. Where there is a dominant culture, the aggression flows primarily in one direction toward minorities and outsiders.

As to how much blame the rich deserve for racism, I think the question can be answered by looking at how responsible they are for starting wars. Its another way to get peons to fight each other. (BTW, do you really expect people regardless of color to elevate domestic racism over the spread of war?


BTW, considering partisans with a taste for for misrepresenting identity politics... I'll take "our point of view" from such individuals with a big grain of salt.

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Response to cprise (Reply #174)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:45 PM

181. It profits and so do all whites from it. We do not profit.

 

So we get the system component, but racism is it's OWN SYSTEM. Our systems intersect but they are not identical or the same nor can racism be rolled into capitalism in that way since we are talking american RACE BASED slavery and the caste system and the fallout that has not ended. Looking at everything from only the anti capitalist perspective absolves the individual of any responsibility to make positive change on their own. They are instead told the system is at fault for all of their own actions. It is both. The system AND the individual at fault.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #181)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 11:16 PM

186. Well then you're welcome to harp about how Clinton

has ignored race, too. I'm not forgetting what it means to converse with a dishonest partisan. Bait people with falsehoods about gender, too, if you like. Nothing rude or disruptive about that...

If you looked at the most progressive sites and periodicals over the past 15 years, you would see a LOT of people (who also post a lot on boards like this) fielding stories about race and racial discrimination when most mainstream wonks were in "post-racial" denial. These unfashionable sources kept us aware of the mass incarceration trend and the large racist aspect to it. I see a lot of Bernie supporters among those people... easily most of them. The charge about "ignoring" is a lie of transference. They do NOT deserve the Circular Firing Squad treatment you are trying to serve up for them.

The best thing about CFS is, it happened in the past... read about it in the 80s and seen it first hand in the 90s. It feeds on attention-seeking trolls who "wear it on my sleeve" (to grab a recent quote). Some of these people are well-meaning, but have the antisocial streak nevertheless. It gets old pretty quick.

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Response to cprise (Reply #83)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:56 PM

146. Right here.

I had composed a reply to that very excerpt and it somehow didn't post.

The Clintons along with a few very wealthy individuals started the DLC, which in turn has brought the Democratic Party to where it is now. The Party has concentrated all the effort and money on the WH. They left all state and local democrats to flounder. The GOP instead played at the local level and have managed to take over many traditionally democratic districts and states.

This is no longer about different party platforms. It is about (in Bernie's words) an oligarchy.

As I see it, the only difference I see between "The New Democrats" and the GOP is, while one actively calls for the destruction of our civil rights and the economy, the other just let's it happen.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:39 PM

9. Oh, the "Progressive" Policy Institute and the "Progressive" Coalition for Jobs..

 

... which are anything BUT progressive in their policies pushed by Third Way people to try and push things like TPP, etc. that work AGAINST what REAL progressives want.

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2015/03/17/progressive-coalition-for-fast-track-and-tpp-appears-from-nowhere/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2445516

If you are talking about these so-called Third Way "Progressives" that really do exist, then YEP, they are panicking too!

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:42 PM

12. No.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:53 PM

22. No to what?...

 

Mystified with your nebulous response there. These are the only "progressive" organizations of people under the Third Way (which I'm sure is also probably trade marked too).

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:30 PM

78. Just Denial.

Which is not just a river in Egypt.

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:06 PM

147. I hope they are panicking.

Panic leads to a lot of arm waving and flailing about. It looks like that is already happening. Good.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:50 PM

18. The Third Way was a conservative move to fight progressivism w/o being tied to the Republicons.

 

The Conservatives don't care about the 16,000,000 children living in poverty. Their main concern is Corp-Profits, even if they pretend to support social justice.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:53 PM

21. That turd way thing with the spelling is childish in my opinion.

 

That is no way to raise the level of discourse. It merely invites ridicule and reactionary commentary.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:56 PM

23. Spelling aside, supporting the 1% will not get social justice. They are lying. They

 

want profits and less taxes. HRC says she is willing to support social justice issues but only if the middle and working classes pay for them and not her close friends at Goldman-Sachs.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:12 PM

31. Supporting a candidate who does not address the harassment of blm and other aa's by

 

those posing as his grassroots does not even give me an inkling that he will be responsive to our needs. Policy is not everything. How you respond to events tells alot about how you will in the future. It is a part of your personality.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:55 PM

61. I couldn't agree more with these two statements, "How you respond to events tells alot about how

 

how you will in the future. It is a part of your personality." HRC betray her Party by joining with Bush/Cheney and giving speeches to help them sell their war. That's who she is, who she will always be. I wish she would have stood up to those lying Republicons.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #61)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:03 PM

67. And Bernie will possibly need to be interrupted to notive the black ommunity and their plight.

 

As he was this Summer before he even thought to put a racial justice aspect on his website.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #67)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:14 PM

113. Its safe to say neither wanted a race-themed issue to start with

But clearly, its Hillary who is the laggard here:

http://www.npr.org/2015/08/20/433257673/black-lives-matter-activist-hillary-clintons-racial-justice-record-is-abysmal

Though Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton has brought up police violence and racism in several speeches, she has yet to release a detailed platform, a fact that black activist leaders have noticed and called out.

Clinton has continued with vague platitudes and evasions about race to this day. Trying to recast this issue in her favor is downright Orwellian.

As for issues that harshly affect POCs, like the perverse incentives created by the Clinton-supported for-profit prisons... well... Clinton likes money. At least Bernie had the integrity to campaign against the structural aspects of racism to begin with.

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Response to cprise (Reply #113)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:23 PM

120. It is not clear to my black self or most other blacks that she lagged behind him on race.

 

Not at all. Just because you were satisfied with him does not mean us black folks all should be. Most of us are not, so, you must not know what we think. If you care, just ask. NPR is not the decided of what black folks think is reasonable.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #120)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:18 PM

148. Funny how you changed your position on that. nt

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #148)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:28 PM

150. Funny how having racist hate mail sent to ones home might change ones mind. Funny that. Nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #150)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:47 PM

154. Sounds to me you got took. nt

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #154)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:04 PM

159. Oh, no! I'm watching them talk about the race card right now. Just like I see republicans do.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #67)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:15 PM

114. Or maybe he could just continue to meet with Campaign Zero, as he has been, to work on solutions.

Without people trying to paint him as a racial bigot.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #114)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:20 PM

118. Yes. And his fans should quietly follow suit so as to not make it look contradictory.

 

Stop saying race card and gender card and stuff. It reflects back on his campaign. No harassing journalists. Or random black tweeters. This is the microcosm. It is not much different anywhere else that discusses politics.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #118)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:54 PM

135. How quiet in general would you like us to be?

I seem to recall yesterday you wanted Bernie to just drop out. Would you like people that support Bernie Sanders to just go away as well?

Despite your statement yesterday I really thought we had a good conversation towards the end but now I am starting to wonder about your intentions.

You have invented a word "third way progressive" that seems to be an attempt to shift language and you don't seem to be as interested in discussing policy. I don't even know how "third way progressive" can apply to the definition you have crafted in terms of somehow going for economic justice without social justice? I mean, if you had a term like "splitters" or something then that might make sense. No, this seems more like trying to piggyback.

As I have said repeatedly to you, most progressives I know want social and economic justice both. Just because some of us are talking about economic justice more doesn't mean we don't want both. We just feel that very few people have been talking about economic justice at all and almost no one has done anything about it.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #135)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:56 PM

136. Quiet as far as not needing to announce to the world that they are doing it. Not in volume.

 

There is not always a sinister tone to my statements.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #136)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:35 PM

151. I think everyone has issues that they perceive aren't getting enough attention...

 

... because they are more directly affected by it. I think I understand completely how so many POC feel like they need higher priority on the racial bigotry that is going on and trying to solve that, when they have to deal with it so much personally and in a way that people who aren't POC can't really understand. I try to. I mentioned the other day that the people I worked with as store detectives though seeming like decent people had lived in a culture that had POC looked upon more suspiciously, even though some of our security guards were also POC too. It was a cultural thing, that I didn't care for at the time, but probably had I known more POC's experience, I would have tried to work to help deal with more than I did. That doesn't mean I don't care, but as I've always indicated here, I want to interact with and have many POC friends that I talk to to try and understand it as much as I can. Can you really expect more of us when we can't experience this directly? Yes, there's always new things and ways to deal with it to try fixing the problem, but I don't think it is an attitude problem amongst progressives, as much in some cases as it is an awareness problem.

I myself have an issue I talk about here a lot that I'd like to see get more attention in how the H-1B Visa worker program has been put together and still works to take away American workers' jobs (particularly tech workers). I have personal experience with that over the last two decades that probably many others can't understand the depth I have experienced it, and I don't claim to understand how those who actually work within this program also deal with it, but I have many Indian friends who I've talked with about this, and I've seen articles to that note that many of them resent how they are treated by this program too as indentured servants.

But just because many others don't experience it the way I do, and I at times wonder how many others care (Hillary seems to want to work against our interests on this issue by supporting H-1B - at least when she talked about it in 2007). But I welcome the many who do talk about it here, and most that support Bernie and populist movements are sympathetic too.

As for social justice issues, though I'm not someone of middle eastern descent, I lived in Turkey for five years when I was a kid growing up, and have had many Turkish friends over the years, and have worked closely with good Armenian friends too, and we've talked about the many issues surrounding their difficulties too, and I feel I have more sympathies for them and other Persian friends some of whom are my closest friends who in many ways today are treated worse in many instances than POC with the anti-Muslim hatred that exists now. I try to help them with their plight, and I would like to think many POC would also work a lot with them to help them find justice too. Do you? I love how Keith Ellison as a Muslim POC works in our congress to push progressive solutions for many different issues, and at the same time is also conscious of these social justices issues for both POC and Muslim Americans too.

In general, I think we should all push extra hard to bring attention to the issues that we feel more personally affected by, since we are more of a voice of knowledge and experience of those issues, and it does personally affect us too. But I like to try and put issues I care about a lot in context with a lot of other issues and try to help bing people together where we can all work together on the different issues we face when we can find common ground with them. I think those who support Bernie I've found most willing to take this approach, which is why I get concerned when others try to demonize them for reasons that don't seem very obvious to us. Like every crowd, there's always going to be a few that don't work with others well, and perhaps are out of step at times with the notion that we should all be working together and lash out at others when they shouldn't. But they are a minority, and I think we all should be careful not to identify so many others with the actions of a few people that don't try to represent an image of those working with others to solve problems mutually.

Many of us didn't like how we were categorized in that way by a few individuals in Seattle, but I and most of those others tried to make the effort that we didn't identify the whole group of BLM with the mistakes made there, and that I have nothing but admiration and support for many in that movement standing up to cops dressed up as military with their hands up risking their lives to try and force some change. I just hope that many of you see that we all want to help support that happening. Please don't push us away and please let's get beyond categorizing each others with names and labels.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:00 PM

102. Learning How to talk and Think Like a Down to Earth Working Class Person is Essential

Yes, Turd Way is not polite, but it is effective when you are out there talking to real people. I am done being polite in some ways as
our problems in this country have become more acute due to greed which is well defended by the Third Way.

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Response to McKim (Reply #102)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:04 PM

103. Yeah. I'm sure it's hard for me as a black women to speak 'down to earth'. Yeah. Okay.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:51 PM

58. Exactly Third Way is simply the REICH trying to buy the Democratic party. The problem is We are not

Buying their BULL$HIT anymore and now they has a sad.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:05 PM

28. Define "Third Way Progressives" in the context of the very real Third Way.

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Response to frylock (Reply #28)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:13 PM

33. No.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:14 PM

34. No, I can't.

FIFY.

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Response to frylock (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:19 PM

37. No. You don't tell me what to do, no. That no. The one where I just say no because I do not like

 

how you asked.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #37)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:26 PM

44. I ASKED you to define a "Third Way Progressive" in the context of the Third Way..

don't come to me with this shit that I TOLD you what to do. Not playing this bullshit game.

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Response to frylock (Reply #44)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:27 PM

47. You came to me and you asked rudely. Maybe try a better way.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #47)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:47 PM

56. Pretty please, with sugar on top?

FTS.

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Response to frylock (Reply #56)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:49 PM

57. Third Way Progressives are to the right of Third Way Democrats on social justice.

 

Third Way Democrats of the think tank variety are to the Right of the Third Way Progressives on Economics. They are mirror twins.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #57)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:54 PM

60. This is nothing than your opinion, and it has no basis in reality..

Third Way acquiesces to social justice because it costs them NOTHING. It doesn't effect the bottom line, and that's ALL the Third Way cares about. And I'm so fucking tired of your misrepresentation of people that took exception to #bowdownbernie and being labeled as "liberal white supremacists" as not caring about social justice. Weak fucking sauce. How would you feel if someone told Obama to bow down?!

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Response to frylock (Reply #60)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:01 PM

65. The women were addressing the city of Seattle as containing white supremacist liberalism.

 

They do not know you to have called you such. Why did you think it was about you? That is the problem. No one bothered to Google 'Seattle+whitesupremacy', otherwise they might have been able to find out why they called the crowd attending the event such, especially since they said it after cries of 'TAZE THEM'.

As far as that hashtag... It did not actually take off and I have no idea who wrote it, not man people went along with it if they did because I did not see it once. Except here from you guys. If you google it, not much comes up aside from complaints from bernie supporters. I think you guys gave it more traction than it deserved and way more meaning.
People have called obama 'piece of shit used car saleman' here and many who now support Bernie were very pleased with it, but now want all respect and adoration towards Bernie. Funny that. And they are rude to many black posters causing us to mostly go away.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #65)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:30 PM

79. The tag came from the women addressing the city of Seattle.

They didn't just talk. They tweeted too.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #79)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:50 PM

144. Yes. They were right about the city.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #144)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:32 AM

217. So, gonna correct your claims that #bowdownbernie was not connected to them? (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #217)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:41 PM

223. I said I don't really know who started it.

 

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Response to frylock (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:34 PM

49. I like the way you fixed that problem.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:44 PM

52. 3rd Way Progressive? Huh?!

WTF are you talking about?

Turd way is just renaming DLC BLue Dogs



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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #52)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:46 PM

55. And Third Way Progressive is naming those soft on social justice.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #55)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:07 PM

68. That's a totally made up term...

The Third Way is okay with certain progressive social issues because it generally doesn't affect their corporate buddie's abilities of making a profit. It's economic progressivism that they want to quash.

The last thing they want to do is level the economic playing field.

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Response to tex-wyo-dem (Reply #68)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:13 PM

71. And the other type hates that so they go soft on social justice as a reaction.

 

So YES! I made up a term for it! Yes!!! I did it!! Guilty!!!

It fits.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #71)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:44 PM

87. So, what your asserting…

Is that those who are proponents of economic justice, automatically are soft on social justice? That's just silly on so many levels.

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Response to tex-wyo-dem (Reply #87)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:49 PM

90. No. Not all, some.

 

I see it all the time. Did you see the pie crust thing? I said, why should I get crusts while you eat pie, theh said, the crust is the best part! Like I'm stupid. No. I want pie too. I do not want to be told to be satisfied with their crusts because I am black and female. That is a third way progressive. If it is not you the do not be bothered.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #90)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:06 PM

105. Well, I'm not sure I totally understand your post

But, let me make one other point. I agree with you that economic justice and social justice are two separate things. At the same time, the two are intimately linked: Economic justice helps realize social justice, and social justice helps realize economic justice. The two are connected in many ways.

And, no, I am not saying that economic justice addresses all social justice issues… It certainly does not.

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Response to tex-wyo-dem (Reply #105)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:29 PM

125. I am glad you see what I see.

 

One won't fix the other, but I think social justice will make opportunity more equal and distribution of benefits more equal.

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Response to tex-wyo-dem (Reply #87)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:55 PM

96. indeed

 

it's like they are mutually exclusive concepts or something.

What I thought even more preposturous is the proposition that the alleged softness on the part of the Bernie camp is born of some gradeschool level jealousy over what the TWers are doing, or not.

That was the case made, at least by my deconstruction of that post.

I see it as support for the point the OPer was making, because "desperation" and "panic" certainly "fit" as a partial but likely whole explanation for such "arguments".

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Response to tex-wyo-dem (Reply #87)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:42 PM

152. FYI

She knows very well that it is silly. She's just upset that Bernie Sanders supporters don't except being labeled racist or white supremacist. She's trying to get us all sent on vacation.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #71)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:47 PM

89. LOL -- are you actually claiming that softness on social justice

 

you've merely baselessly declared and haven't a prayer of demonstrating for the BS camp, is some kinda collective schoolyard-level reaction to turd weighers using their acquiescence to social reforms as a means of furthering their greed/corporatism? They ain't ALL bad, eh, like their rightwing cousins?

What is it exactly -- Bernie is a softie on social justice reforms because turd weighers aren't, or because he has to be hard on econ justice, while they aren't? This has to be one of the most laughable uses of "jealously" I've ever seen...lol

You should do a top post about this, and explain how it is socioeconomic can really only exist in the bifurcated state of econ or social justice, and you can only pick and act upon one as the turd weighers alone have done it appears.

Hell, any other humorous conspiracy theory of like kind will be appreciated.

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #89)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:49 PM

92. Did I ever use Bernie's name in my definition?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #92)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:18 PM

117. that's irrelevant

 

it doesn't matter who/what group the target of your conspiratorial effort is, the entire effort is flawed for the reasons stated/argued.

Gee what's next -- that Bernie being "soft" on issues that the AA community want addressed, hasn't been/isn't the charge?

If anyone is or has been soft on anyone or a group, I'd say it is you with your "third Way progressive" label. The "progressive" part of it gives them moral currency they've neither earned nor deserve, and is really more than anything else as far as I can tell, an effort to polish the third way turd. http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/15-ways-bill-clintons-white-house-failed-america-and-world

you weren't talking about Bernie like you aren't a HC supporter

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #117)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:21 PM

119. I was talking about folks who use race card, race nagger, gender card...

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:40 PM

84. Madam, there is no such thing as a Third Way Progressive

any more than there is any such thing as a married bachelor. The term is an oxymoron.

What the Third Way (DLC/New Democrats) do is try to merge trickle down or supply-side economics, which is a colossal failure from the Reagan administration, with tradition Democratic concepts of social justice for racial minorities, women and sexual minorities. There is no way that one can have social equality or social justice while giving special privileges for artificial persons and the billionaires behind them, which has evolved to mean the right of banks to rob their costumers and the right of industrial polluters to trash the planet and pass the costs of cleaning up their mess on directly to the public sector. It doesn't work.

It also means that corporate interests have the right to aggressively suppress their employees who seek higher wages and better working conditions. There is no social justice in that. That kind of social injustice is a direct result of economic injustice. Whether you believe it or not that means that you and I will be together in the same leaky boat.

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #84)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:50 PM

93. There is now.

 

You are talking third way dems. I am talking brogressives.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #93)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:07 PM

138. Again, there isn't now any such thing any more than there is now a married bachelor

Using the term doesn't make one.

Please define brogressive. Thank you.

As you might suppose, I know a number a white liberals and what the BLM movement have to say about them, while an overgeneraliztion, isn't at all off the mark. I know quite a few who are well-meaning but utterly clueless. I'm at least enough aware of that to second guess myself whenever I open my mouth. Listening is a very good defense against ignorance.

I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X when I was in high school (1967-70), living in a lilly-white suburb of Los Angeles. That was a real eye-opener. I was amazed at the difference between the Malcolm portrayed in white popular culture and the Malcolm in his autobiography. I would mark my reading of that book as a major milestone in my path to being a progressive rather than a wishy-washy liberal. I got a few clues reading it. Anybody who hasn't read it really should. Another book I read about the same that also woke me up was Black Power by Charles V. Hamilton and Stokely Carmichael. Once again, there was what the white media said about the black power movement and there was what a book co-authored by Stokely Carmichael himself had to say about it. I stopped thinking that it was some kind of black racist reaction to the injustice of white racism and began thinking of it as something of which I had nothing to fear and something that even merited my personal support.

Reading those books was a valuable lesson in learning how other Americans live and think and also in how not to trust everything I hear and read in the media.

Those were good lessons to learn.

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #138)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:19 PM

141. I read that book at six and many times since.

 

I can invent terns as I please if they apply and I define it. Trust that I can.

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #84)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:12 PM

235. Nope, I thought that was a joke, actually!

Third Way = Conservative, period and they are proud of it! They despise Progressives.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:08 PM

109. Hillary a loyal Dem, most prgressive are voting for her

 

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #109)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:09 PM

110. She is. Loyalty is important.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #110)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:53 PM

156. Oh dear...

when you start agreeing with lewebley3 I can no longer take you seriously.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #156)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:02 PM

158. Once I see a person ignore the obvious issue, They amuse me, lol.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #158)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:33 AM

194. What is the obvious issue?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #194)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:44 PM

224. I swear to God I never trust a group of folks who say 'Race Card' day after day.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #110)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:32 AM

193. What a good loyalist you would have made.

But, our country was founded by those that weren't loyalists.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #193)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:45 PM

225. Yes. But my people were slaves not the founders.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #225)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:20 PM

228. So you would rather we stayed loyal to the King?

I doubt that would have changed the history of slavery here much since England also allowed slavery at the time.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #228)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:32 PM

232. Slavery ended in England much sooner.

 

Since freedom was given for joining the red coats, yeah, Ida joined them with bells on.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #232)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:40 PM

236. Much sooner? You mean like 30 years sooner?

It is not too late to join them you know.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #236)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:20 PM

239. I am 34. That is a lifetime to a slave. Many did not live much past 40.

 

I guess Had I been there I should have fought for my right to be General Washington's slave, then?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:31 AM

192. I'd really like to know why you are voting for her?

What issues do you think Hillary will lead the way for you on? I am being serious. I really do not understand why anyone would support her and nobody here has given me a good reason no matter how many times I ask. What will Hillary do for you or people you care about or people in general?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #192)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:45 AM

203. I echo your sentiment

 

I have no idea why any self-proclaimed progressive or democrat, for that matter, would vote for her. I have not seen any Clinton supporter discuss the issues, but rather totally ignore them.

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Response to coyote (Reply #203)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:49 AM

204. i've asked a few times and gotten very few replies...

and none noteworthy. Will keep trying because I would really like to know.

Here is my latest attempt or failure: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251741180#post3

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #192)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:48 PM

226. I have never had so many white people gang up on me and call me racist before.

 

Never. It is very revealing and lets me know to run from them fast as possible and let them know what I think about it on the way out. I would suggest they never do that if they do not want stuff like black folks running away to happen next time they find the best liberal ever.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #226)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:14 PM

227. Who called you a racist? And how do you know what 'color' posters are?

All I asked was why you were voting for Hillary. Are you saying you are voting for her because 'white' people called you a racist?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #227)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:30 PM

231. I know what color they are because they said what color they were.

 

They were mad at the young women for calling out Seattle for white supremacy. If they were not white, why the anger? Next, I was voting for Bernie, until a self described fan sent me hate mail to my home. That shows the culture within his movement. I felt unsafe with his group after that, had to go to my storage and arm myself. I have never felt like going to pull my rifle out of storage before. But I have children and stalking me to my home is very out of the ordinary. Next, the amount of white posters who felt it was their duty to bring down BLM, they were all from Bernie's side. Plus, white folks calling me racist while they are the beneficiaries of white supremacy? If they believe that they'll believe anything. If I called just one of them a racist in such nasty descriptive and bald terms, they would still be posting ops about it. I said 'white ass crowds', and they went balistic, but they can call me race baiter, racist, race nagger, Stockholm syndrome victim, etc, and see nothing wrong with the double standard. So, why? Why not? I know I won't get hate mail from Hillary supporters, I know they don't call me names or describe they entirety of the AA population as stockholm syndrome victims. I know that.

I know that telling Bernie fans what they are doing wrong merits harassment. I know what they did to John Lewis' facebook page, schooling him on civil rights. I know many have white privilege and use it and use it and then some use it against me by force of numbers ganging up.

Nobody cares enough about the fact that hundreds to thousands of blacks have complained by blogging, tweeting, tweeting Sanders, telling his fans to please leave them alone about Dr King, black folks know our history better than them. There is such disfunction and a complete unwillingness to address it other than to say, 'it's just the internet!!' But it isn't. It happens in person too. By mail. Via email. Nobody will do anything about it, so please tell me why the heck black folks should join a revolution that treats us like THAT?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #231)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:43 PM

237. Yeah, I am sure Hillary will help you a lot. Good luck. nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #237)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:19 PM

238. I am sure Bernie won't notice me, let alone help. He voted for mass incarceration.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #238)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:45 PM

240. Actualy, that was Hillary but whatever.

It is obvious that that some people here aren't really interested in the truth or justice.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:30 PM

2. Obama was too progressive for them in his message

 

And perhaps not coincidentally, Obama at least started to become more progressive when Bill Daley left town.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:32 PM

4. yup

He had too many campaign staffers that were from the DLC/third way mindset. He had been sold on that by some in the party that encouraged it for the sake of party unity.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:51 PM

20. I think he got the Presidency because he sold his soul to the Third Way.

 

He campaigned as a progressive, but he ruled as a conservative.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #20)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:26 PM

76. That is sort of defeatist

And it creates the impression that there is no way you can take the presidency without selling out to the third way sorts.

Personally I think that a lot of pundits, and experts, and lobbyists talked him into putting these people into his administration. I think it was a mistake that he took too long to correct.

I still think president Obama had very good intentions.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #76)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:24 PM

121. I also believe he had good intentions but when he became president, those that are

 

really in charge explained reality to him. The NSA/CIA explained that they had personnel and programs in place that was keeping the country safe and he best not mess with that. I think the economists gave him the same talk. Not really direct threats.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #76)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:35 AM

201. It would be nice if my impression of the President could be so generous.

It isn't. Not even close.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:40 PM

10. McCain doesn't seem to be panicing.

 

And Clinton supporters seem to be quite confident. I have never been big into sci-fi.

The Turd Way. lol. There is some elementary school playground shit. Next thing you know people will start promoting McCain and other wingers thoughts here in support of their candidate. Then we will know panic and desperation.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:00 PM

64. Did y'all get the same tpm on how...

To respond to the use of "turd way"?

Sheesh

Yeah, it's rather sophomorish humor, but it's been used on DU for years.

Give it a rest

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:31 PM

80. I guess you're against increasing veteran benefits then.

Because the only way I've heard Bernie and McCain linked was on support of veterans.


Every time you attack Bernie through McCain you're attacking support for veterans. You do understand that right? But by all means keep going with that line of attack.

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Response to RichVRichV (Reply #80)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:08 PM

160. ^^^This^^^

Democrats have dropped the ball on veterans issues for years. When they want to tear into Bernie for crossing the divide with McCain, to get veterans what they have earned, it makes my blood boil.

I hope every last one of them collapse under the weight of their own bile.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #160)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:34 AM

189. The best part is that it undermines their argument..

that Bernie is incapable of working with Congress. I mean make up your fucking mind!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:44 PM

15. Since when does 25% support indicate a rise?

 

By that logic, do you agree with a notion claiming "The Rise of Donald Trump"? Because he's about 10 points higher than Bernie on the Republican side.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:47 PM

17. K & R !!!

 


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:22 PM

39. Message to base: Don't you liberal bastards dare think about having a more progressive government!

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #39)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:58 AM

207. That's the core of the message, isn't it? Very sad. eom

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:36 PM

50. K&R -- Thanks, Segami!

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:42 PM

51. Your post would be better without that graphic at the top

It's difficult to get people to listen to what you're saying when you start off with juvenile insults (i.e. 'turd' instead of 'third').

The article, on the other hand, is very good and worth ready. Thanks for posting it.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:44 PM

53. K n R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:56 PM

62. These same Centrists that lost the midterms for us

want us to follow their pathetic lead again and I say Fuck That!

"We must garner conservative votes too, for the win!"

And we lost big time yet real progressive legislation won big.

Let them yell, kick, and scream like spoiled fucking kids.

This ends with Bernie.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #62)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:24 PM

161. The very same.

They know very well that Third Way Centrist policy is losing down ticket races. They don't care. They only care about the WH. The executive branch of the government that keeps the money flowing into their pockets. They throw us a social bone once in awhile to keep us in line.

I say: Wake up and rise up.

Enough is enough. Go Bernie.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #161)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 10:21 PM

182. !

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Response to Phlem (Reply #182)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 10:45 PM

185. In solidarity. nt

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Response to Phlem (Reply #62)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:40 AM

202. +1 an entire shit load.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:03 PM

66. Yeah, God forbid we go back to pre-corporate-whore thinking!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:12 PM

69. As they should be, along with their progressive republican cousins

 

AGW is likely gonna heat up our politics faster than the planet, and those dinosaurs will not be able to adapt or survive in their current form.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:13 PM

70. k&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:15 PM

72. I think that they still think it is 1992. And they actually

admitted being the ones to convince President Obama and the people working on ACA to take the public option out? That is not something I would brag about.

As to 2014 Democrats did not turn up at the polls.

This is the best indictment of a group that I have ever read. And they outright admit they did not support President Obama in because he appeared populist.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:38 PM

81. As someone who tabled on a local issue last year, I heard again and again from

The Democrats who did not vote in 2014.

One of the main reasons: they were smart enough to understand that when the meme is "Lesser of two evils" then just what is the damn point?

A political group can destroy the middle class bit by bit or a different political group can destroy it over night, but if in ten years, survival for the middle class has been cut away, what difference does it make which group did it?

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #81)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:31 PM

126. Not sure what you mean but since the group that did it is

still active then I think it matters.

What I see happening right now is a real split in how people in the party think. I do not know what the future is for our party but I do know that this has to be acknowledged. I see the split as DLC vs FDR Democrats. FDR as in policies that worked to make our nation stronger.

And you are correct those who did not go to the polls in 2014 were not interested in more of the same. They are giving us the same choice this time.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:49 PM

134. And President Obama promised that ACA Plans and Medicare would go down in price as each

passed. Americans are receiving letters ending or lessening the ACA health care and a rise in the cost of Medicare without a rise in Social Security benefit checks.

We have corporatist insurance companies screwing Americans over 2016 Healthcare. Did I leave out, we have New Democrats screwing Americans in 2015-16, like they did in 2013-14.

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Response to DhhD (Reply #134)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:26 PM

143. You do know that what he said while he was running only

sounded populist. Much of what he has done from the start is corporatist and by 2014 that was clear.

In 2014 the election showed a real dissatisfaction with business as usual and that meant DLC centrist ideas. We are even more sick of them now. And yes I know TPTB do not seem to see that at all. Even the Unions.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #143)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:39 AM

190. Many of us learned to read between the lines after 2008..

which is why we're not falling for Populist Hillary.

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Response to frylock (Reply #190)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:52 AM

205. Precisely. Apparently many didn't learn to read between the lines.

To the detriment of us all.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:21 PM

73. Seems pretty simple to me...

 

Vote Bernie!!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:24 PM

75. While I agree with the message,

I think you should delete that graphic, Segami...it's not nice and it's about one of our Democratic candidates running for office now. I don't really think it's necessary to call Clinton a Turd on DU.

There are nicer ways to get your point across.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #75)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:39 PM

162. The truth is not always nice.

Without any apology, I think the whole of the Third Way, right along with the GOP, is one giant load of crap.

I'm sorry if that wasn't nice enough. I could use a lot of pretty flowery language to say that, but I doubt those the message was meant for would get it.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #162)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 08:50 PM

167. This is still a democratic forum,

where I thought we were supposed to treat democratic candidates with some modicum of respect, even if we don't agree with them. After all, they could end up being our POTUS.

Maybe I read the rules wrong, or maybe it's OK to start posting ugly crap graphics of the two main contestants in the battle for POTUS.

Are you OK with Hillary supporters doing that to Bernie?

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #167)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:00 PM

172. Really?

Do you think Hillary supporters are ever going to be nice?

It's the Third Way along with the GOP that is killing us. I want to crush them both. Hillary just happens to be the Third Way candidate.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #172)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:07 PM

173. Yeah, I've been overwhelmed lately with all the nasty graphics of Bernie,

Calling him shit, crap, turd.

Sorry...you don't pass go. You don't collect $200.

I guess we could always just say it's OK to act like that, and we both start flinging poo. It seems that is what some people really want here. Funny how Bernie is not up for that.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #173)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 10:36 PM

184. I have been nice far too long.

Bernie is a real gentleman and class act. All that gets him is poo flung at him. Well that and millions of supporters. Millions of supporters who will react to every bit of poo flung.

They are not called Turd Wayers for no reason. Live by the turd, die by the turd.

I won't molly-coddle them anymore.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #184)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:57 AM

206. I understand your sentiments. Do I ever.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #75)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 09:24 PM

176. Par for the course for a certain crowd.

 

Some around here call Clinton a liar, murderer, or whore on a weekly basis, but start clutching pearls whenever someone so much as uses Sanders' initials.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #176)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:41 AM

191. Her lies are documented.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:38 PM

82. Alert results

On Thu Oct 29, 2015 an alert was sent on the following post:

The Rise Of Bernie Sanders And The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251741918

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

That graphic is highly offensive. The poster could have made his/her point without the offensive photograph.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:17 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The true can hurt those who act like they're blind
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to grow up.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is GD-P. Alerter needs to toughen up a lot. I see no reason to hide this.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The article is good so I voted to leave it, the graphic is not needed.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The graphic is intended to offend, but it's the language, the "turd" way bit that offends me. I don't like things like repuke or libtard either. Words meant to inflame. I hate to see DUers beating up each other. You can disagree without doing that.It's the main reason I trashed GDP.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm totally fine and not offended in the least with it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Bryce Butler (Reply #82)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:41 PM

85. Yup.

 

Thanks....

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Response to Bryce Butler (Reply #82)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:45 PM

88. seems to me

That if you trash a forum you shouldn't be getting jury notifications for postings in that forum.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:41 PM

86. Nov 2016

Nov 2016 is all that counts. A Dem win must happen.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:49 PM

91. Yeah, we better not allow these crazy thoughts of equality, peace and real freedom to enter

the minds of the unwashed masses

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Response to Dont call me Shirley (Reply #91)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:34 AM

209. It might mess everything up!

Just imagine what it could do to the established social order, not to mention profit. Can't have it! [URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #209)

Sat Oct 31, 2015, 11:50 AM

241. All the undoing of FDR they've done over the last 35 years would be ruined, just ruined.....



I love the GAAH simile!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:16 PM

115. Kick and R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:27 PM

123. yeah yeah yeah.. gloom, dispair, and agony on me.

 



It's so rough being on the side of frontrunner.

Rest assured though, once she's the candidate, we'll welcome all of you with sense enough to want to see the US continue the great progressive move forward the President Obama has started.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #123)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:46 AM

199. In other words, the status quo suits you fine since you are doing well under it.

You don't find that s wee bit selfish? Do you think it is really well thought out? Do you think you will still be doing well when all is said and done? Food for thought.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:36 PM

129. I'd say the ones that were panicking...

would be the ones starting multiple anti-Hillary threads every day.



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #129)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:17 PM

140. What, no giggling gnome? Tummy still aches?

 

Here,....let me help...Just for you!






That should help ease the tummy cramps.......

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:38 PM

130. And the Sequel: The fall of Bernie and the Panic of the Brogressives

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:21 PM

142. Sorry Segami...

Looks like your thread got hijacked right from the start.

Though officials at Third Way warned about potential missteps Democrats might make at the presidential level, much of the hour-long briefing on Wednesday was spent arguing that the party's success in such elections has masked fundamental problems elsewhere. And on a purely numerical level, the math is indisputable. As Jonathan Cowan, Third Way's president, noted, Democrats hold the fewest offices in Congress, statehouses and governors' mansions since 1928. The factors behind this, however, are deeply disputed. In its presentation, Third Way argued that a focus on issues like a $15 minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits and advocating for single-payer health care all create the political dynamics that make Democrats electorally vulnerable. But few Democrats have run on this platform in past races. During the disastrous 2014 midterm elections, a number of senators called for expanding Social Security benefits. But talk of single-payer health care was nonexistent outside highly progressive (and largely dismissed) quarters. And the debate at the time was about raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, not $15. Third Way itself calls for a wage floor of $10-$12, based on average hourly wages and regional cost variations.


The Party (thanks to the Clintons and a bunch of 1%ers) steered all the effort and money to the WH. Local democrats were left floundering. The GOP played the long game and have taken over many once dependable Democratic seats, from the local level all the way to DC.

This has nothing to do with political platforms, and everything to do with (in Bernie's words) an oligarchy.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:43 PM

153. As the article says,

"As Jonathan Cowan, Third Way's president, noted, Democrats hold the fewest offices in Congress, statehouses and governors' mansions since 1928. The factors behind this, however, are deeply disputed. In its presentation, Third Way argued that a focus on issues like a $15 minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits and advocating for single-payer health care all create the political dynamics that make Democrats electorally vulnerable."

Remember that the Third Way corporatist wing of the Democratic Party has been powerful since the early 1990s. My take on this is that Democrats hold the fewest offices since 1928 because of twenty five years of Third Way corporatism. They aren't even real Democrats. They are to the right of Eisenhower Republicans.

Free trade, cutting 'entitlements,' deregulating Wall Street, no single payer - these are EXACTLY the reason why Democrats have systematically been losing seats.

If our candidates start talking like real New Deal Democrats, then we'll start GAINING seats. Why? Because according to numerous polls, Bernie Sanders' positions are ALL favored by a majority of the American people. Even single payer.

That's why we need to ignore all the bullshit lies and distortions from the mainstream media, the ridicule from the establishment, the whole 'rat-fucking' thing, and KEEP ON WORKING TO ELECT BERNIE!!!

Forget those skewed polls. They have all the money but we each have one vote. Let's use our votes to make this country a better place for once. Let's vote in our own interests instead of Halliburton's and the Koch brothers'.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #153)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:43 AM

198. +1 Ignore bullshit and elect Bernie. nt

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #153)

Sat Oct 31, 2015, 02:47 PM

243. Sing it

K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:48 PM

155. Lots of replies....

...and mine won't matter, but I feel compelled to contribute for selfish reasons. Here it is......
"The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists"

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Response to quickesst (Reply #155)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:41 AM

197. Thanks for wasting my time. It will be the last time. nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #197)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:27 AM

200. Ok....

👍sounds good.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 07:54 PM

157. There is no "real rise "of Bernie sanders that appears to be over.

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Response to FloridaBlues (Reply #157)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:39 AM

196. Wish away! nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 10:24 PM

183. Out of curiosity, can you point to any thread that needed a photoshopped image of Sanders to "sell"?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #183)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:38 AM

195. Is that really the important topic that you derived from this?

I am sure there are, as there probably are for Hillary but I doubt anyone here is going to search them out for you, so if this is your gotcha moment while the earth, people and nature are dying due to human greed and ignorance go for it.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #195)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:58 AM

213. No, but I take the "they're scared of us" mantra as par for the course.

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:42 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:19 AM

208. IMO, Daley was doing Hillary a solid. Reeks of kabuki.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:48 AM

210. I don't think you understand the meaning of panic

 

Texas: Clinton 59% Sanders 10% O'Malley 3% Undecided 28%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110723972

Lone Star State Poll -Hillary Clinton 59% Bernie Sanders 10%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251736969

Palmetto State Poll-Clinton -43% Sanders 6% 0'Malley 3%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251734319

International Longshoremen's Association to endorse Hillary Clinton this Saturday
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251735010

Loras College Poll (IOWA) - Clinton 62% Bernie Sanders 24% Martin O'Malley 3%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251733510

Clinton is rising in North Carolina
PPP's new North Carolina poll finds Hillary Clinton with her largest lead in the state since May. 61% of Democrats in the state support Clinton to 24% for Bernie Sanders

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110723689

BREAKING: New Loras poll gives Hillary 38 point lead over Sanders in Iowa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251732960

Two new polls give HRC huge leads in Iowa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251732917

BREAKING: Senator Sherrod Brown Endorses Hillary Clinton for President.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251732053

Key Union Endorses Clinton - AFSCME
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110722738

Clinton Holds Massive Lead in Iowa
October 27, 2015By Taegan Goddard


A new Monmouth University Poll in Iowa finds Hillary Clinton with a huge lead over Bernie Sanders, 65% to 24%, with Martin O’Malley at 5% and Lawrence Lessig at 4%.

Key findings: “Clinton enjoys a large lead over Sanders among both male (55% to 33%) and female (73% to 16%) voters. She also has an edge across the ideological spectrum, leading among voters who are very liberal (57% to 34%), somewhat liberal (68% to 22%), and moderate (69% to 19%).”

A new Loras College poll finds Clinton leading Sanders, 65% to 24%, with O’Malley at 3%.

http://politicalwire.com/2015/10/27/clinton-holds-massive-lead-in-iowa/

The only panic I see here is coming from berniebros who knows polls and endorsements like the above spell doom for Bernie.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:21 AM

211. Kicked and recommended!

Thank you, Segami.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:29 AM

212. no PANIC at all.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:59 AM

214. "Don't think we aren't watching", sez the bankers.

"Paychecks can be cancelled, ya know . . . even yours!"


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:47 AM

215. Another day in the most democracy Wall St investors will allow.

Some work towards a better future for all, some only for themselves and the CEO's they feel more affinity with than the downtrodden masses suffering under corporate rule.

Theft of democracy, theft of the commons, theft of futures, theft of change.

The more weight at the top, the more crushing the burden on those at the bottom.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:05 AM

216. Maybe you should stop using childishness to push your Candidate.

This whole thread says it all if you read it objectively. Now your team is pushing woman away like you did blm and AA in the summer. If your team wouldn't push your candidate in this manner maybe more people would be inclined to support him. How you approach people is not by insulting them and then acting victimized when they point out said insults.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 11:20 AM

218. Hmmmm....I smell desperation!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:05 PM

219. I recall the use of this image once before on DU

If I recall correctly, it got an appropriate response back then.

Must be some end of the month thing--this and nothing but regurgitated posts by H.A. Goodman, as in "Why President Rand Paul Will Keep America Safer Than Bush, Obama, and Hillary Clinton." THAT H.A. Goodman.

I doubt Bernie would approve. He's SO much better than this.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:09 PM

220. Post after post on DU

loaded with jackasses one and all. Whomever our candidate of choice may be, I hope that they are not like us.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:25 PM

221. Panic

Mrs. Clinton leads in every poll. I do not believe that any of us are the slightest bit panicked.

Sanders is a great person, just happens to be my second choice for president, there's nothing wrong with that. I wish hi supporters were a little less demonizing of HRC supporters. We're all in the tent together here, y'know.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:31 PM

222. A massive kick and a hearty rec

You know the saying "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"?

Well we're three quarters of the way to winning.

Economic populism is the perfect wedge issue and is getting attention.....finally.

Of course we expect the plutocrats on the right to fight us, but the ones on the "left" from the third-way are even more strident; but the hell with them anyway. The issue stands out enough on its own to turn us hoi-polloi against the elitists. They have the $$ but we have the numbers.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:21 PM

229. Thom Hartmann read off a list of the Third Way members all but a few were investment bankers.

 

and the few that weren't were corporate CEO's

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:28 PM

230. So does that mean that HRC is going to back peddle on some of Bernie's positions?

Got my popcorn and beer ready!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:48 PM

233. Good Topic! People Really Got Into It. eom.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Sat Oct 31, 2015, 12:33 PM

242. Kick...nt

Sid

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